[Que enspastic]

Ireland is an interesting country. Very capitalistic in some respects and very socialist in others. It doesn’t seem to have a good sense of balance, a boom and bust mentality, and shockingly bad planning capabilities

Nonetheless, the Irish (in the Republic that is) are not split down the middle to the point of national paralysis in the same way as the Brits. I suspect they are relishing having the clout to say no to the Brits (and get their way) for the first time in a millennium due to membership of the EU with Merkel, Tusk and Barnier frequent guests in Dublin and beyond

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Don't forget that it takes less than 2 hours to drive from one side of Ireland to another.

[Ouroboros]

(04-06-2019 11:01 AM)the.king Wrote:  

(04-06-2019 06:41 AM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

Some things in life are more important than a temporary hit to GDP, or even the terrible torture that is roaming charges.

Nobody can disagree that at the end of the day, its up to the Brits to decide what they want.

But there is a fundemental difference between saying:

''Brexit will result in a hit to the UK's economy (& other nasty consequences), but its ultimately up to the Brits to decide''

or ''I want my country to be able to legislate specifically against European immigration, and i'm willing to accept any collateral damage''

and outright lies (false, incorrect statements) such as:

''EU restricts free trade with rest of the world''
''Portugal will sign a trade agreement with the UK''
''Switzerland is out of the EU and is able to trade with the EU without problems''
''I don't want to be bound by the laws of Romania''

etc

----

Opinions should be formed in the face of evidence (facts). Here is a couple of examples of what constitutes an objective, indisputable fact:

- Greece lost c. 30% of its GDP in the years 2008-2015
- There was a 40% increase in suicide rates in Greece from years 2010 to 2015
Link to relevant NY times article

The highlighted facts above add weight to the anti-EU argument - the austerity imposed on Greece by the EU (and IMF) was a major cause of the economic contraction and overall hardship experienced in the country (most likely contributing to the spike in suicides). Not to mention the role that the EU's single currency project had in exacerbating the economic issues that culminated in Greece's sovereign debt crisis.

You might say that this is Greece, not Britain, and therefore irrelevant to a discussion of Brexit. But for future reference, it's instructive to see how the EU treats one of its members when that country lacks the economic or military clout to defend itself - with zero regard for its sovereignty or the interests of its people.

[RexImperator]

Quote:

it's instructive to see how the EU treats one of its members when that country lacks the economic or military clout to defend itself

The EU cares a hell of a lot about what happens to the big European banks (which is where the bailout monies go)... and not much at all about the Greek people or other European peoples.

[Vlado]

(04-07-2019 07:48 PM)Ouroboros Wrote:  

(04-06-2019 11:01 AM)the.king Wrote:  

(04-06-2019 06:41 AM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

Some things in life are more important than a temporary hit to GDP, or even the terrible torture that is roaming charges.

Nobody can disagree that at the end of the day, its up to the Brits to decide what they want.

But there is a fundemental difference between saying:

''Brexit will result in a hit to the UK's economy (& other nasty consequences), but its ultimately up to the Brits to decide''

or ''I want my country to be able to legislate specifically against European immigration, and i'm willing to accept any collateral damage''

and outright lies (false, incorrect statements) such as:

''EU restricts free trade with rest of the world''
''Portugal will sign a trade agreement with the UK''
''Switzerland is out of the EU and is able to trade with the EU without problems''
''I don't want to be bound by the laws of Romania''

etc

----

Opinions should be formed in the face of evidence (facts). Here is a couple of examples of what constitutes an objective, indisputable fact:

- Greece lost c. 30% of its GDP in the years 2008-2015
- There was a 40% increase in suicide rates in Greece from years 2010 to 2015
Link to relevant NY times article

The highlighted facts above add weight to the anti-EU argument - the austerity imposed on Greece by the EU (and IMF) was a major cause of the economic contraction and overall hardship experienced in the country (most likely contributing to the spike in suicides). Not to mention the role that the EU's single currency project had in exacerbating the economic issues that culminated in Greece's sovereign debt crisis.

You might say that this is Greece, not Britain, and therefore irrelevant to a discussion of Brexit. But for future reference, it's instructive to see how the EU treats one of its members when that country lacks the economic or military clout to defend itself - with zero regard for its sovereignty or the interests of its people.

Since you and Handsome Creepy Eel are speaking about the so called '' destruction'' of Greece because of the EU measures....

First of all, do not make comparisons between Greece and the UK, because the UK is one of the largest economies of the globe, albeit it depends a lot on imports and produces considerably less good than let's say Germany, but still, not the rigyt comparison.

First of all, it is not true that the GDP pf Greece went down 30 % or so.

The nominal GDP per person in Greece has a small downturn during the crisis years, but not 30%.

You guys speak about the '' destruction'' of Greece like Greece it was some kind of economical superpower.

First thing you guys need to know is that greece in early 70s was a shithole, even warse than balkan communist countries.

Greece'e economic prosperity started when Greece started the negotiations to Enter EU and when it entered EU in the middle 80s.

This time and the after years coming was the time when agriculture, tourism industry prospered in Greece,.

All the big companies in Greece were created more or less this time.

Also From 1986 till 2010 EU in different ways, from grants to investments to loans low interests fees, has invested or implanted 400 billion euros in Greece.

Greece became a developed country because of the EU and the other balkan countries did not have not even 5% of the luck that greece had.

Greece went bankrupt for 2-3 simple reasons: corruption, huge administration (were salaries went up too high and many salaries were given to people who were recorded as dead for years), too much spending in general and maintaining an army which was and still is to huge for Greece. ( also Ouroboros, Greece has quiet a large army (not because if it's ecoonomy as explained before) and is not e defenseless country).

If EU was not going to intervene and put restrictions in order to give billions to Greece ( again) to recover it's finances, Greece would have gone out of the Euro zone and maybe EU and today the GDP would have been the half it was in 2008.

I stated it before, this comparison is not right.

[Benoit]

(04-08-2019 03:53 PM)Vlado Wrote:  

Greece became a developed country because of the EU and the other balkan countries did not have not even 5% of the luck that greece had.

Greece went bankrupt for 2-3 simple reasons: corruption, huge administration (were salaries went up too high and many salaries were given to people who were recorded as dead for years), too much spending in general and maintaining an army which was and still is to huge for Greece. ( also Ouroboros, Greece has quiet a large army (not because if it's ecoonomy as explained before) and is not e defenseless country).

If EU was not going to intervene and put restrictions in order to give billions to Greece ( again) to recover it's finances, Greece would have gone out of the Euro zone and maybe EU and today the GDP would have been the half it was in 2008.

I stated it before, this comparison is not right.

GDP is a measure of the economy, not of quality of life for normal people.

What you're describing sounds more like the EU enabled all the conditions that lead to the economic collapse. And those massive EU bailout loans didn't go to social programs to help affected people, but to pay off foreign creditors.

EU grants are only ever used for infrastructure projects and promotion of the globohomo agenda. If a country wants to reduce its national debt and secure more future freedom for citizens then the money is nowhere to be seen.

[Oak]

This thread is a great demonstration of how most people simply cannot comprehend how anglo-saxons think.

The idea of sacrificing material comforts, even temporarily, for liberty and self-determination is unfathomable to most.

Anglo men seem to be the only ethnicity that will suffer for abstract principles. Magna carta and the american war of independence are good examples among many. History shows that anglos will happily leave their 1,000 acre estate and risk life and limb for the right to self-determination and increased liberty.

I'm not sure how much brexit will affect the economy. We weren't attacked by locusts after the vote as we were promised. But it will probably on balance be slightly be worse for 10-20 years.

But the fact that some think a GDP hit, or even roaming charges will convince an anglo to give up sovereignty just shows what a weird and wonderful bunch we must seem to others.

Anyway, the original comment I was going to make is:

WOMEN HAVE NO COUNTRY, ESPECIALLY CHILDLESS WOMEN

[Polniy_Sostav]

Anglo Saxons are the only ones who put money at the center of everything in a desperate and vain attempt to control the world before the inevitable collapse which they have contributed to create...
I believe materialism has eaten the mind of anglos

[gework]

(04-07-2019 04:22 AM)Que enspastic Wrote:  

The population split between cities & towns/countryside, degree holders & working class, young & old, Europeans & Sikhs/Muslims

Sikhs voted to leave and few would be happy to be considered interchangeable with Islam.

(04-07-2019 04:22 AM)Que enspastic Wrote:  

Demographics are already starting to fuck over Leave as baby boomers start dying and all those 15/16/17yos from 2016 are now eligible to vote at 75% Remain

Despite the jubilation of leading lights of left that the old are dying off, that is not the case. Like everywhere else in Europe, there are year-by-year increasingly more people 40+.

As people get older their views change, and that will be away from staying in the EU. An aging population = bad news for the establishment.

This report shows that the average age of Conservative voters (who mostly back leave) has fallen from 47 to 51, in two years.

[Mekorig]

(04-07-2019 04:57 AM)BelyyTigr Wrote:  

I've seen some absolutely bizarre arguments going on about jurisprudence put forward by one of the Brexiteers here.
So as a non practising lawyer myself, I strongly concur with Sp5 and co there.

However, I myself am still firmly against Britain being in the EU.
Its a symbol of all thats bad about extreme globalism.
Sadly the most of the Establishment have no desire to give us a Brexit.
The Conservatives are governed by offshore corporate greed.
And Labour was hijacked by NeoLiberal Blairites - also governed by corporate greed.

Its interesting that in the recent by-election, UKIP fielded a sleazy little shit Neil Hamilton who should really be banned from politics. But he still got a fair vote as the UKIP candidate.

If the one party state lowlives do try and cheat us out of Brexit I could see mass civil disobedience. The influx of cheap labour has been hugely damaging to many Brits. And it would only get worse by remaining either officially or by stealth.

Finally someone with common sense! Your post resume my personal point of view on the whole issue. But the thing is, as a argie (already in a very deep shithole), seeing the british pirates having such a "wonderful" time is amusing.

[Syberpunk]

(04-09-2019 01:19 PM)gework Wrote:  

(04-07-2019 04:22 AM)Que enspastic Wrote:  

The population split between cities & towns/countryside, degree holders & working class, young & old, Europeans & Sikhs/Muslims

Sikhs voted to leave and few would be happy to be considered interchangeable with Islam.

(04-07-2019 04:22 AM)Que enspastic Wrote:  

Demographics are already starting to fuck over Leave as baby boomers start dying and all those 15/16/17yos from 2016 are now eligible to vote at 75% Remain

Despite the jubilation of leading lights of left that the old are dying off, that is not the case. Like everywhere else in Europe, there are year-by-year increasingly more people 40+.

As people get older their views change, and that will be away from staying in the EU. An aging population = bad news for the establishment.

This report shows that the average age of Conservative voters (who mostly back leave) has fallen from 47 to 51, in two years.

[Ouroboros]

(04-08-2019 03:53 PM)Vlado Wrote:  

First of all, do not make comparisons between Greece and the UK, because the UK is one of the largest economies of the globe, albeit it depends a lot on imports and produces considerably less good than let's say Germany, but still, not the rigyt comparison.

Nowhere did I compare Greece to the U.K.

With Britain on the decline though, perhaps the two countries will have more and more in common. Lots of countries that once had powerful empires (Greece, Italy, Mongolia, Spain, Portugal, etc) are now economic backwaters, so it's sadly not unrealistic for the U.K. to end up in a similar situation in the future, be it decades or centuries from now.

(04-08-2019 03:53 PM)Vlado Wrote:  

You guys speak about the '' destruction'' of Greece like Greece it was some kind of economical superpower.

Another strawman, no one suggested that Greece had a great economy beforehand; only that the EU's actions made matters worse and disregarded the wellbeing of the Greek people.

(04-08-2019 03:53 PM)Vlado Wrote:  

First thing you guys need to know is that greece in early 70s was a shithole, even warse than balkan communist countries.

Greece'e economic prosperity started when Greece started the negotiations to Enter EU and when it entered EU in the middle 80s.

This time and the after years coming was the time when agriculture, tourism industry prospered in Greece,.

All the big companies in Greece were created more or less this time.

Correlation =/= causation. The mid-1970s (5 or so years before Greece joined the EU) was when Greece became a democratic state, following a recent history of foreign invasions, political turbulence and military dictatorship. It's likely that the greater stability and openness of the new administration would have made a significant contribution to encouraging foreign investment and increased tourism, with or without EU membership.

(04-08-2019 03:53 PM)Vlado Wrote:  

Also From 1986 till 2010 EU in different ways, from grants to investments to loans low interests fees, has invested or implanted 400 billion euros in Greece.

Greece became a developed country because of the EU and the other balkan countries did not have not even 5% of the luck that greece had.

It's difficult to estimate how much of a difference the EU grants made to economic growth. Somalia received US$1.3 billion in aid in 2016, and they're probably going to remain a shithole country for the foreseeable future. If we concede that the EU funding did make a difference, that funding could still have come from the individual countries that make up the EU, without the need for membership.

The Balkan countries were also ruled by communist dictatorships up until the late 1980s/early 1990s and thereafter disintegrated amid interethnic conflict; that might help to explain why their fortunes differed from those of Greece.

(04-08-2019 03:53 PM)Vlado Wrote:  

Greece went bankrupt for 2-3 simple reasons: corruption, huge administration (were salaries went up too high and many salaries were given to people who were recorded as dead for years), too much spending in general and maintaining an army which was and still is to huge for Greece.

You're correct that the Greek government mismanaged their economy, which made them vulnerable to economic perturbations. But it's inaccurate to say that the 'sovereign debt crisis' was only the result of government debt. It was preceded and triggered by an international financial crisis that had multiple causes, among them deregulation and irresponsible private sector lending practices.

(04-08-2019 03:53 PM)Vlado Wrote:  

( also Ouroboros, Greece has quiet a large army (not because if it's ecoonomy as explained before) and is not e defenseless country).

Upon checking, their army is admittedly larger than I thought, although no match for the combined forces of the EU. It's also worth remembering that the most powerful and influential member of the EU is the same one that easily invaded (but not so easily occupied) Greece only 7 decades ago.

(04-08-2019 03:53 PM)Vlado Wrote:  

If EU was not going to intervene and put restrictions in order to give billions to Greece ( again) to recover it's finances, Greece would have gone out of the Euro zone and maybe EU and today the GDP would have been the half it was in 2008.

Greece should never have joined the Eurozone in the first place, since it acted as a monetary straightjacket, limiting their policy options in responding to the financial crisis.

As for whether the EU should have imposed restrictions on Greece in the form of austerity, the decision to do so was (ostensibly) based on the policy merits of expansionary fiscal consolidation - the idea that austerity should be applied during a financial crisis in order to boost economic recovery. But expansionary fiscal consolidation simply doesn't work; instead it inhibits economic recovery (as the empirical evidence and many research papers demonstrate). By insisting on harsh austerity measures, the EU/IMF only succeeding in aggravating Greece's financial woes (with resultant negative effects in the social and political spheres), in turn making it even harder for Greece to pay back its loans.

[gework]

The euroskeptic and immigration reform Finns Party narrowly lost the Parliamentary elctions by about 0.1%; more than doubling their seats from 17 to 39. This was after their polling doubled in about 3-4 months.



* Party is listed as PS

Should set them up for a similar boost in the EuroParl elections.

[gework]

(03-29-2019 09:09 AM)Richard Turpin Wrote:  

That's right .... they have decided to name themselves officially as CUK!!! Fucking CUK!? I mean, wtf!? Did nobody have the social awareness of savvy to warn them off?

It's actually being used

I guess CUK are lucky, from what I read finishing last is a good ending for cucks; usually they don't get to finish at all