[Indy]

Gentlemen, I'm at a bit of an impasse with the response and progress (and the lack thereof) I seem to be getting from my game in all phases (online, day, and night game).

I'm afraid this is going to come across as trollish, whiny and narcissistic. But I'm seriously seeking advice and hope you'll see past the “homo” nature of the post and come to my aid.

I was a late-bloomer and had low confidence in high-school but over the years, through the words of others, have come to assume I'm on the upside of average but never put much thought in to it – nor gave any fucks. I just sat around and relied on the over-confident and sexually aggressive 6's of the world to assert their desire to bang me and make the approach for me. This was after making approaches and being shot down fairly quickly – damn near every time. I always assumed I wasn't their type, or my approach sucked or whatever – so I found my niche and fell in to it.

I didn't seek out game until about two years ago after feeling a further decline in the quality and frequency of my bangs. Alpha was something I just thought a person did or didn't have, and never made any attempt to improve my frame or internalize alpha behavior and/or principals.

I had read Bang and perused the forums for about six months and came to the conclusion that my personality and actions were beta as fuck and in need of a serious overhaul. So, I started making small changes here and there and I felt better for it. My existing relationships took on a different tone, I started looking out for me, and those sexually aggressive 6's were responding in even more positive ways. I feel like my game has improved in ways, my mood is improved, as has my outlook and level of confidence.

However, the responses and body language I have gotten from my approaches hasn't improved in nearly eighteen years and in some ways, has even declined.

I usually wait for an IOI before approaching... It's often reached the level of me knowing a girl is literally fucking me in her mind while we exchange looks. I rarely hesitate and make my way to them and as soon as I even say a simple “hello”, its like I said “Hi, I have the Zika Virus and our babies will have birth-defects” and the shields go up and I kid you not, nuclear-level shit-tests start dropping from the sky. I even have bitches disqualifying themselves. I can literally feel them climbing down the pedestal (with their words and body language) – and that's after a simple “hello”.

How can I be “over-gaming”? I'm usually dressed in jeans with a blazer and pocket square. I'm simply saying “hello” and shit goes DEFCON 1.

Recent Interactions/Scenarios

A. Friend A (at restaurant): “The girl across from us appears to be more in to you than her date.”

B. Friend B: “Indy, I've never personally seen someone walk in to a room and women stop and take note. I've witnessed it happen on several occasions.” I called bullshit, but whatever...

C. Random Drunk Bar Girl: Approaches and says, “OMG, you are absolutely beautiful. Please text your parents right now and tell them I said thank you.” I number closed and we chatted but she evaded three attempts to schedule a date. This was even with her texting me “good morning” for weeks at the butt-crack of dawn.

D. Strip Clubs: On the rare occasions I go, I usually sit with a friend or by myself for two-three hours with out even a single dancer approaching us. When they finally do approach, they say things like “I didn't come over because you look like a huge asshole that doesn't tip.”

I'm not bitching. I'm not saying I'm Tom Brady. Hell, maybe I'm a “2” on a good day and my friends are just being nice.

I just want to know what's up. Why are women responding this way to “hello” and how can I fix it and turn it to my advantage?

Can I PM you a photo and solicit your opinion on how I should be gaming (e.g. “You're a “5” so do this”)? I don't have any red-pill friends and the advice I'm getting from beta friends is shit. Do I need to be more alpha/assertive/caveman? Should I go beta-as-fuck and build these women up? Seriously. No homo... I just want to bang 9's!!!

[OregonToSoCal]

OP I don't have the answer to your dilemma but I also don't think you're trolling as I can see parallels to my own experiences in your post. I've been a diligent student of the game for 5+ years after my divorce and I still have no freaking idea of where I am on the 1-10 scale. I've had women tell me I'm a 9 yet my life experience feels an awful like I'm more like a 4.

Most of my daily existence consists of my being completely invisible to all women as I go about my daily errands and activities. Yet at the same time I will get unsolicited comments declaring how "beautiful" or "incredibly handsome" I am or why I'm not a male model. When I do approach women in daygame situations or attempt to playfully joke with them it's quickly shut down and I can see the frustration on their faces. Contrast this with my relatively good results from Tinder where a woman who I banged on the first date told me in her message that she "literally dropped her phone after seeing my photo because I was so stunningly beautiful" Uh huh, right...

I'm not trying to turn this thread into a pity party but I do want to let you know that this can and does happen to others besides yourself. I don't have a quick fix but I'm convinced that for me it comes down to my body language, facial expressions and overall vibe that I'm projecting unconsciously. Will be interested to hear what the forum seniors have to say on this...

[~wrIghter~]

I've had a girl go direct with me who was about a high 7 but with kind of a hipster-ish style. Met her at the mall. This was one of my bummy days after the gym. She let me get close and I number closed before her shift started. I missed out because I didn't ask her out soon enough. I wasn't confident that her interest level had been high enough.

If a girl is interested, she will give some sign (you may not notice) of wanting to see you again. I've rarely approached anything below a 7 and have gotten numbers from some of them. I've had girls call me handsome and ask why I'm still single. I've also had girls blow me off before I could speak two words.

I think it all comes down to interest and maybe social anxiety. Maybe you approach a girl that's really into you, but she rejects you because she thinks you're too good for her or a player. Some girls feel better online dating than dating someone handsome with the confidence to approach them. I don't think there is a simple fix, its really about screening and doing what you can to make it work.

[Agreddor]

(02-12-2016 03:50 PM)Indy Wrote:  

Gentlemen, I'm at a bit of an impasse with the response and progress (and the lack thereof) I seem to be getting from my game in all phases (online, day, and night game).

I'm afraid this is going to come across as trollish, whiny and narcissistic. But I'm seriously seeking advice and hope you'll see past the “homo” nature of the post and come to my aid.

I was a late-bloomer and had low confidence in high-school but over the years, through the words of others, have come to assume I'm on the upside of average but never put much thought in to it – nor gave any fucks. I just sat around and relied on the over-confident and sexually aggressive 6's of the world to assert their desire to bang me and make the approach for me. This was after making approaches and being shot down fairly quickly – damn near every time. I always assumed I wasn't their type, or my approach sucked or whatever – so I found my niche and fell in to it.

I didn't seek out game until about two years ago after feeling a further decline in the quality and frequency of my bangs. Alpha was something I just thought a person did or didn't have, and never made any attempt to improve my frame or internalize alpha behavior and/or principals.

I had read Bang and perused the forums for about six months and came to the conclusion that my personality and actions were beta as fuck and in need of a serious overhaul. So, I started making small changes here and there and I felt better for it. My existing relationships took on a different tone, I started looking out for me, and those sexually aggressive 6's were responding in even more positive ways. I feel like my game has improved in ways, my mood is improved, as has my outlook and level of confidence.

However, the responses and body language I have gotten from my approaches hasn't improved in nearly eighteen years and in some ways, has even declined.

I usually wait for an IOI before approaching... It's often reached the level of me knowing a girl is literally fucking me in her mind while we exchange looks. I rarely hesitate and make my way to them and as soon as I even say a simple “hello”, its like I said “Hi, I have the Zika Virus and our babies will have birth-defects” and the shields go up and I kid you not, nuclear-level shit-tests start dropping from the sky. I even have bitches disqualifying themselves. I can literally feel them climbing down the pedestal (with their words and body language) – and that's after a simple “hello”.

How can I be “over-gaming”? I'm usually dressed in jeans with a blazer and pocket square. I'm simply saying “hello” and shit goes DEFCON 1.

Recent Interactions/Scenarios

A. Friend A (at restaurant): “The girl across from us appears to be more in to you than her date.”

B. Friend B: “Indy, I've never personally seen someone walk in to a room and women stop and take note. I've witnessed it happen on several occasions.” I called bullshit, but whatever...

C. Random Drunk Bar Girl: Approaches and says, “OMG, you are absolutely beautiful. Please text your parents right now and tell them I said thank you.” I number closed and we chatted but she evaded three attempts to schedule a date. This was even with her texting me “good morning” for weeks at the butt-crack of dawn.

D. Strip Clubs: On the rare occasions I go, I usually sit with a friend or by myself for two-three hours with out even a single dancer approaching us. When they finally do approach, they say things like “I didn't come over because you look like a huge asshole that doesn't tip.”

I'm not bitching. I'm not saying I'm Tom Brady. Hell, maybe I'm a “2” on a good day and my friends are just being nice.

I just want to know what's up. Why are women responding this way to “hello” and how can I fix it and turn it to my advantage?

Can I PM you a photo and solicit your opinion on how I should be gaming (e.g. “You're a “5” so do this”)? I don't have any red-pill friends and the advice I'm getting from beta friends is shit. Do I need to be more alpha/assertive/caveman? Should I go beta-as-fuck and build these women up? Seriously. No homo... I just want to bang 9's!!!

You need to do other things with your life. It sounds like you're over prioritizing women.

You lose money chasing women but you dont lose women chasing money. I.e If you spent more time pursuing other avenues of personal development rather than solely women, you would find your life more fulfilling.

Take this to be constructive criticism. Move away from all the PUA stuff, understand that if women want you, they want you. You cannot create desire, desire has to come naturally. The women you've failed to get, charge it to game.

As for the self-esteem issues. I used to have them when I was 19 and I still have them at age 22. The best advice I can give you is to do work on aspects of yourself which you can control. I.e your physique through diet and exercise, Skin care, a good haircut, clothes etc... If its issues with a disproportionate nose/ jaw shape. These things can only be changed through plastic surgery.

My 0.02

[Indy]

(02-12-2016 05:09 PM)OregonToSoCal Wrote:  

Most of my daily existence consists of my being completely invisible to all women as I go about my daily errands and activities. Yet at the same time I will get unsolicited comments declaring how "beautiful" or "incredibly handsome" I am or why I'm not a male model. When I do approach women in daygame situations or attempt to playfully joke with them it's quickly shut down and I can see the frustration on their faces. Contrast this with my relatively good results from Tinder where a woman who I banged on the first date told me in her message that she "literally dropped her phone after seeing my photo because I was so stunningly beautiful" Uh huh, right...

^^^ This! It's like you're walking in my shoes.

[Indy]

(02-12-2016 05:51 PM)Agreddor Wrote:  

You need to do other things with your life. It sounds like you're over prioritizing women.

You lose money chasing women but you dont lose women chasing money. I.e If you spent more time pursuing other avenues of personal development rather than solely women, you would find your life more fulfilling.

Take this to be constructive criticism. Move away from all the PUA stuff, understand that if women want you, they want you. You cannot create desire, desire has to come naturally. The women you've failed to get, charge it to game.

As for the self-esteem issues. I used to have them when I was 19 and I still have them at age 22. The best advice I can give you is to do work on aspects of yourself which you can control. I.e your physique through diet and exercise, Skin care, a good haircut, clothes etc... If its issues with a disproportionate nose/ jaw shape. These things can only be changed through plastic surgery.

My 0.02

I appreciate the advice but I think there's a disconnect with what I'm trying to say/ask and the direction of your advice.

I usually don't talk about myself, mainly because people don't believe me... and honestly, who besides my parents gives a fuck who I am and/or what I do.

I'm 38 years old. I think I'm at like 50-55 notches and that has been done passively -- at best. Dunno, lost count. Aside from a few greys, I look 25, I kid you not. I'm 6'2" with blond hair and blue eyes. I'm around 160lbs. I could stand to loose some ill-placed fat (but it isn't noticeable) and then bulk.

I was a late-bloomer in HS. At 20, I actually pursed a modeling career, based on recommendations, and had some success, but it wasn't for me -- too much homo shit. Whatever self-esteem issues I had from HS were long gone by 23/24.

I'm self-taught in my career. I've won awards. I've done work for Fortune 100 companies. I've even been paid to work on political campaigns at the absolute highest level. I won't say more than that because this forum is public. I turned down a position at Google because I wanted to stay in FL and everything I read said vag is at a premium in SF and Silicon Valley. I'm currently the #2 at a small company and pull in damn-near six-figures. To some, that's change, to others it's bank...

So my focus in life is me, my priorities are solid...

I passively approach women when the opportunity present itself. I'm getting IOI's and then a cold shoulder when I make even a simple approach.

But, I clean up on Tinder. I have Tuthmosis first-date bang strategy down to a science. I have 300 matches and don't have time to talk to any of them. So clearly, I'm not trollish in appearance.

The issue I have is gaming women in-person because I want to move away from online game and assert control over the quality of my bangs.

My analysis says my appearance in combination with DHV/SMV is working against me. I'm having women disqualify themselves at "hello" -- like they see me as the unicorn and know I'm going to pump-and-dump. That sounds narcissistic as shit, but I'm a humble guy and it's really the only conclusion I've drawn that makes sense.

So yeah, chalk it up to game. Maybe too much game? Or is my vibe off to the point I'm not building comfort, but building discomfort by intimidation and making them feel inferior? No idea... Maybe just approach more...

[TooFineAPoint]

Subconscious judgemental frame possibly? Too in-order (ie. sterile)?

In Tommy Lee's autobiography he said before he went out on his first date with Pam Anderson he put on the sweatiest, ripped, dirty t-shirt he could find because he had found that "her type liked a kind of grungy dude" (paraphrase). You may need to tone it down a lot because maybe your vibe or whatever is too far outside these girls' paradigm. Kind of like, if you are really well spoken, it sometimes helps to insert "um" into your conversation to give the other person enough time to think and follow what you are saying (but since this is rare, most advice is how to speak in a more polished manner).

[CPG]

You've got an interesting contradiction between your Tinder and eager 6's crew results vs. the in-person cold shoulder. A believable one, though. I doubt it's an appearance issue, and a jeans + blazer combo isn't going to dress you out of most venues. My take below some relevant quotes...

Quote:

I usually wait for an IOI before approaching... It's often reached the level of me knowing a girl is literally fucking me in her mind while we exchange looks. I rarely hesitate and make my way to them and as soon as I even say a simple “hello”, its like I said “Hi, I have the Zika Virus and our babies will have birth-defects” and the shields go up and I kid you not, nuclear-level shit-tests start dropping from the sky. I even have bitches disqualifying themselves. I can literally feel them climbing down the pedestal (with their words and body language) – and that's after a simple “hello”.

Quote:

I passively approach women when the opportunity present itself. I'm getting IOI's and then a cold shoulder when I make even a simple approach.

The parts about passively approaching when there's an opportunity and waiting for IOI's makes me think you haven't done that many cold approaches, where you go in without the girl checking you out and signalling in advance. It sounds like you've done plenty on line, how frequently have you gone out during the day or night and approached?

If you haven't done a fair bit, think about giving it a try. Getting the reference experiences of many approaches helps pick out patterns, and you might just be misreading some of these. Even if the girl seems to be giving you the green light in advance she can be icy on the approach, and it'll be easier to place her reaction when you've seen enough of them.

As for the question about the girl going immediately cold after "Hello" despite liking you, there are a few things to look out for. Some of these are tough to self-diagnose, I used to do one of these and it took a guy pointing it out for me to work on it.

• Being too eager, smiling broadly, etc
• Strange mannerisms, like fidgeting with your shirt, any kind of twitch, uncomfortably long eye contact, etc
• Getting too much in her personal space too fast (less of a risk if she was already attracted)
  

The other thing I'm wondering about is your follow-up. A simple "Hey" style open is fine, as long as you have good ramble afterwards. You say these girls go DEFCON1 right away, is it literally you saying "Hello" and they immediately shut down the conversation--or are you continuing to talk and they kill it after some back-and-forth? That's important to know before considering any over- or under-gaming issues.

[germanico]

(02-12-2016 07:01 PM)Indy Wrote:  

I'm having women disqualify themselves at "hello" -- like they see me as the unicorn and know I'm going to pump-and-dump.

Have you tried approaching the really hot chicks?

You know, the ones who wont see you as out of their league?

[Indy]

(02-12-2016 09:01 PM)CPG Wrote:  

The parts about passively approaching when there's an opportunity and waiting for IOI's makes me think you haven't done that many cold approaches, where you go in without the girl checking you out and signalling in advance. It sounds like you've done plenty on line, how frequently have you gone out during the day or night and approached?

If you haven't done a fair bit, think about giving it a try. Getting the reference experiences of many approaches helps pick out patterns, and you might just be misreading some of these. Even if the girl seems to be giving you the green light in advance she can be icy on the approach, and it'll be easier to place her reaction when you've seen enough of them.

As for the question about the girl going immediately cold after "Hello" despite liking you, there are a few things to look out for. Some of these are tough to self-diagnose, I used to do one of these and it took a guy pointing it out for me to work on it.

• Being too eager, smiling broadly, etc
• Strange mannerisms, like fidgeting with your shirt, any kind of twitch, uncomfortably long eye contact, etc
• Getting too much in her personal space too fast (less of a risk if she was already attracted)
  

The other thing I'm wondering about is your follow-up. A simple "Hey" style open is fine, as long as you have good ramble afterwards. You say these girls go DEFCON1 right away, is it literally you saying "Hello" and they immediately shut down the conversation--or are you continuing to talk and they kill it after some back-and-forth? That's important to know before considering any over- or under-gaming issues.

Yeah, I need to approach more. I make 4-5 approaches/week usually. I'm only out maybe one night a week. I'm trying to eliminate night game and drinking. I'm at the age recovery takes a full day. After the approach, it's usually a combination. I opened two girls a few months back with "Hello" and they immediately said "You look like a vacuum salesman. Sorry, we have boyfriends." I was fucking speechless. But I let it slide off and chalked it up to them "negging" me. But usually, I get heavy IOI's and then swoop in and after a brief ramble and few open questions, they still aren't contributing to the conversation so I eject.

Maybe I ejected too early? Didn't build enough comfort/interest?

(02-12-2016 09:18 PM)germanico Wrote:  

(02-12-2016 07:01 PM)Indy Wrote:  

I'm having women disqualify themselves at "hello" -- like they see me as the unicorn and know I'm going to pump-and-dump.

Have you tried approaching the really hot chicks?

You know, the ones who wont see you as out of their league?

^ Great advice. Maybe I'm going in on the 7's half-assed without a real passion to close and its showing through.

I think these two posts are what I was looking for and give me a solid direction and goal. I just need to do more day approaches, get more comfortable at rambling, passing shit tests, building comfort and interest (while assuming attraction from the outset) and approach only women I think are 8-9 (with the occasional 7 in yoga pants).

[LongDongSilver]

Buy some black air forces mid tops, Levi 511's, some Lacoste v necks and throw on a north face shell.

Start smoking weed and listening to little boosie. Gargle polo black.

[KevCapitalist]

You need to figure out if it's your game or the girls just being intimidated, remember girls don't have game.

Next time a girl disqualifys herself say outright "Ah, am I making you nervous? Take my hand." If she complies that's exactly it, find somewhere for the two of you to sit/talk and go from there.

[CPG]

Indy Wrote:

Yeah, I need to approach more. I make 4-5 approaches/week usually. I'm only out maybe one night a week. I'm trying to eliminate night game and drinking. I'm at the age recovery takes a full day. After the approach, it's usually a combination. I opened two girls a few months back with "Hello" and they immediately said "You look like a vacuum salesman. Sorry, we have boyfriends." I was fucking speechless. But I let it slide off and chalked it up to them "negging" me. But usually, I get heavy IOI's and then swoop in and after a brief ramble and few open questions, they still aren't contributing to the conversation so I eject.

Maybe I ejected too early? Didn't build enough comfort/interest?

Those details help, there are two different situations here:
1) The "You look like a vacuum salesman. Sorry, we have boyfriends" on the open is a simple blow-out. If it's an isolated case just ignore it (vagaries of chance and all that, the occasional one will happen), but if it happens consistently and this is what you were concerned about in your original post pay attention to that list of possible approach killers.

That type of shot-down suggests either you showed way too much interest on the approach and they immediately ended it by a firm rejection, or you did something else to get their guard up before you said hello.

2) "But usually, I get heavy IOI's and then swoop in and after a brief ramble and few open questions, they still aren't contributing to the conversation so I eject." --> yes, keep going in this situation. I expect to do 60 to 80% of the talking the first 5 minutes, then for it to gradually become a back-and-forth conversation if it's going anywhere. If 10 minutes in I'm talking so much I might as well be monologuing, it's either already dead or dying.

Here's an old Roosh post that describes it well (this one was useful to me back in the day for figuring out what to expect): http://www.rooshv.com/the-talking-ratio

Oh, and I hear you on the getting away from drinking and nights out. When I was an excited night game novice in my late 20's I'd do at least 1 weeknight and 2 weekends, but now it's getting harder to just do Fri/Sat much less get any drinking in on a work night.

Still, there's no faster way to get volume in so it might be worth absorbing the hit for a few months or learning how to be effective without getting to hangover levels of drinking (which is a skill I should be working on!).

[XPQ22]

(02-12-2016 05:09 PM)OregonToSoCal Wrote:  

Most of my daily existence consists of my being completely invisible to all women as I go about my daily errands and activities. Yet at the same time I will get unsolicited comments declaring how "beautiful" or "incredibly handsome" I am or why I'm not a male model. When I do approach women in daygame situations or attempt to playfully joke with them it's quickly shut down and I can see the frustration on their faces. Contrast this with my relatively good results from Tinder where a woman who I banged on the first date told me in her message that she "literally dropped her phone after seeing my photo because I was so stunningly beautiful" Uh huh, right...

If you hadn't noticed, women are fickle as fucking hell when it comes to everything, looks included.

There may be "9"s who will bang you on the first date, and there will be some chubby "5" who won't even give you the time of day.

I have facial hair, and some women absolutely will never bang me for that reason no matter what I'm like otherwise. And some women drop their panties for it. I used to have long hair, and some women hate it and think it's disgusting. And vice versa.

About the only thing women seem to be able to agree on is that they generally would prefer someone who is not seriously overweight or obese and is taller than average. And probably not seriously disfigured or terrible facial aesthetics. But you say that you get unsolicited comments that you're handsome so the latter point probably isn't true.


So other than that, all bets are off.

[Indy]

(02-13-2016 10:11 AM)KevCapitalist Wrote:  

You need to figure out if it's your game or the girls just being intimidated, remember girls don't have game.

Next time a girl disqualifys herself say outright "Ah, am I making you nervous? Take my hand." If she complies that's exactly it, find somewhere for the two of you to sit/talk and go from there.

Solid advice.

(02-13-2016 10:31 AM)CPG Wrote:  

Those details help, there are two different situations here:
1) The "You look like a vacuum salesman. Sorry, we have boyfriends" on the open is a simple blow-out. If it's an isolated case just ignore it (vagaries of chance and all that, the occasional one will happen), but if it happens consistently and this is what you were concerned about in your original post pay attention to that list of possible approach killers.

That type of shot-down suggests either you showed way too much interest on the approach and they immediately ended it by a firm rejection, or you did something else to get their guard up before you said hello.

It was just a warm-up to put me in a more social mood. They were in my vicinity and accessible. The two chicks were trailer-park hipsters and fours at best. There was no intent on my part to have anything more than a brief conversation. That's maybe the second time in my entire life that I've been blown out like that -- both times there was a major gap in the value I perceived them to have and my own perceived value.

(02-13-2016 10:31 AM)CPG Wrote:  

2) "But usually, I get heavy IOI's and then swoop in and after a brief ramble and few open questions, they still aren't contributing to the conversation so I eject." --> yes, keep going in this situation. I expect to do 60 to 80% of the talking the first 5 minutes, then for it to gradually become a back-and-forth conversation if it's going anywhere. If 10 minutes in I'm talking so much I might as well be monologuing, it's either already dead or dying.

I'll keep going. What about what KevCapitalist says above? If it tapers off, ask them direct questions to isolate the reasons for their lack of contribution and adapt accordingly?

(02-13-2016 10:31 AM)CPG Wrote:  

Here's an old Roosh post that describes it well (this one was useful to me back in the day for figuring out what to expect): http://www.rooshv.com/the-talking-ratio

I'm reading this now. Thanks.


I'm sitting here analyzing my past ten bangs and the common pattern seems to be the girls falling in to one of two categories. They're either young girls (18-24) who want to get piped by an attractive and well-dressed guy or they're successful and educated to the point that our value is similar. From the later group, there was an attorney, a bio-chemist, a robotics expert, a c-level executive and two with specialized positions in healthcare.

This is all good shit, I appreciate the advice.

Next actions:
1. Get better at approaching by doing more approaches. I'm in FL and spring is coming up. We have an outdoor mall here that spans miles. I could spend an entire weekend there, every weekend, and not make a dent in the foot traffic.
2. Approach more attractive women with higher value.

[CPG]

Quote:

It was just a warm-up to put me in a more social mood. They were in my vicinity and accessible. The two chicks were trailer-park hipsters and fours at best. There was no intent on my part to have anything more than a brief conversation. That's maybe the second time in my entire life that I've been blown out like that -- both times there was a major gap in the value I perceived them to have and my own perceived value.

Gotcha, then I'm sticking with "isolated case, ignore it". I only sweat blow outs on the warm up if it keeps happening, especially on solo nights where it takes a few approaches to get loose.

Quote:

'll keep going. What about what KevCapitalist says above? If it tapers off, ask them direct questions to isolate the reasons for their lack of contribution and adapt accordingly?

KevCapitalist's ballsy hand-grab-and-sitdown move has potential, sounds like something GLL Chris would advocate. For the "Ah am I making you nervous?" question part, I'd want to try it out or see it in action before commenting on it. I can see it going either way.

I rely more on verbal than physical early on, so if it's tapering off I jump topics and conversation threads to get them biting on something else. I avoid questions unless I'm 75% sure it'll lead somewhere good, as if the conversation's already dying they tend to suck more life out than they add.

Speaking of FL in Spring, I recently came to Orlando and I've been surprised how much Winter has slowed the place down. I'm used to DC going into hibernation over Jan/Feb, but I thought things would be livelier down here. November was great, then after New Year's it's been much less fun...a 50 degree night keeps people inside as much as 30 degree one does up North. I'm looking forward to it picking up soon.

[Indy]

You should give Spring Training games a shot. I think they start up in a week or two. I'm not sure on the crowd sizes but regular season MLB Games are a female haven. Admission can't be that much.

[Jtguthrie12]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzO3NGU1Bgo

this is gold

[Indy]

Damn, not to beat a dead horse, but this is killing my mindset and frame. I've managed one notch since Thanksgiving. I'd taken a few months off from seriously approaching and gaming more passively. I've been focusing on work, painting, and furnishing my new apartment.

I've been back at it the past few weeks. Same shit....

1. I was out eating and a waitress (not my waitress) opens me and says "Nice shoes!" We chatted a while and I asked her if she had a boyfriend, which I don't normally do. She responded saying "No, but I'm not looking to date you, just fuck you." She was working so I got her number and bounced. I texted four days days later (on a Sunday evening) "Hey pink shoes, this is Indy with the gray shoes. What's up?" She never returned my text. All in all it was a good interaction but ended like most phone numbers do. Not sure where I could have gone wrong other than possibly waiting too long to text but figured a text on a Friday/Saturday would be even worse.
2. I'm out last weekend. There's only one table to set my drink on and it was surrounded by girls so it seemed like the perfect excuse to join them. I sit my drink down, grab a smoke from my jacket pocket, smile and say hello. The one chick in the group I didn't want to bang responds by saying "You look like a fucking Ken doll" and sticks her tongue out at me and makes a noise... and then the group walks off. All I did was say hello!
3. An hour later after the table incident, a blonde 7 out alone starts socializing with our group. That interaction went like this:
Her: I saw you checking me out when I walked in.
Me: Does that bother you?
Her: No but we look like we could be brother and sister.
Me: I know, you're cute too *smirk*
Her: Wow, you're arrogant
Me: Closed one eye and gave her a pissy smirk
Her: Changes her direction to my friend

4. Online has sucked. Nothing but 4's and 5's matching me. I was absolutely killing Tinder last fall. Now not so much. Three last minute flakes and a SIF that had only old photos.

I did manage to find a photo of someone that looks like my twin. He's got a bit better jaw line and body but every other feature is damn near identical.



Please help... I've never witnessed anyone get shit tested like this. I feel like girls are drawing some extreme conclusions about me before I even open my damn mouth. As far as dress, I'm usually in a blazer with jeans and a pair of vans. Nothing over-the-top. I'm fairly reserved and stoic in my demeanor.

[Suits]

Impossible to answer these questions without actually knowing you and seeing how you behave socially.

[Deepdiver]

Don't mean to be too harsh but that photo of the bare chested blonde model above looks like a penultimate gay fantasy pinup... so - just saying - DON'T BE THAT GUY with women unless you are trolling for fag hags.

Grow some scrub - facial hair chest hair and shower ever other day or so and just rub the pit stick over your pheromone laden pits. Get some of the top ten rated by female wedding fragrances... google it and experiment - the subconscious effect of a scrubby pheromone-oozing sexual guy with subconsciously female sex triggering fragrances in her mind that will communicate "alfa male need sex now" and game on the 8, 9s and 10s.

Get yourself some alpha wheels - the kind a real women gets wet in when she has to climb up into it but at a discount on Criagslist or TrueCar - I like Hummers or Ford tough or RAM trucks big powerfull lower mileage units under 50K miles will run 300K with maintenance. Sort of like a good neomasculine woman.

Go cave man Alpha always in sexual mode - hand on her knee and inner thighs at all possible times, sit next to her while eating, drinking, watching a movie, driving... work the palm of your hand right up to her mons venus and use your fingers to probe and see how wet she is - have a bang roll in the back of the Hummer - bang her everywhere, in the woods, out fishing or camping, in the back of the hummer in the middle of the day (this is what rear tinted windows are for) - in the muddy grass in the rain with only rain slickers on her covered with mud and your cum running down her thighs afterwards, on the kitchen table and in the shower - at the movies in the Hummer - I make every woman I am with know WITHOUT A DOUBT that I see her as a sexual animal and can't wait to practice Alpha insemination inside her - of course if she is not "THE ONE" use protection - goes without saying no need for baby daddy baby momma drama with unsuitable specimens.

Part of what keeps a woman around you is knowing you always will take sex from her and phuck her hard but never knowing exactly when or where - keeps them in a constant state of arousal... becoming a Neomasculine Alpha is as much about your sexual appetites as anything else.

[Indy]

(06-13-2016 10:53 AM)Deepdiver Wrote:  

Don't mean to be too harsh but that photo of the bare chested blonde model above looks like a penultimate gay fantasy pinup... so - just saying - DON'T BE THAT GUY with women unless you are trolling for fag hags.

Not too harsh. I'd think if they thought I was gay, this being 2016 and all, they wouldn't be complete bitches from hello.

(06-13-2016 10:53 AM)Deepdiver Wrote:  

Grow some scrub - facial hair chest hair and shower ever other day or so and just rub the pit stick over your pheromone laden pits. Get some of the top ten rated by female wedding fragrances... google it and experiment - the subconscious effect of a scrubby pheromone-oozing sexual guy with subconsciously female sex triggering fragrances in her mind that will communicate "alfa male need sex now" and game on the 8, 9s and 10s.

Gotta love genetics. I can't grow a full beard and I'm damn near 40. I do keep some scrub -- never clean shaven. I'll pull back one more level on the razor guard.

(06-13-2016 10:53 AM)Deepdiver Wrote:  

Get yourself some alpha wheels - the kind a real women gets wet in when she has to climb up into it but at a discount on Criagslist or TrueCar - I like Hummers or Ford tough or RAM trucks big powerfull lower mileage units under 50K miles will run 300K with maintenance. Sort of like a good neomasculine woman.

I live/work in a heavy urban district and don't even have/need a vehicle. I have my dates meet me in the area so we're never more than two blocks from my place. The issues are at "hello", we're not even to the point they would see my car.

(06-13-2016 10:53 AM)Deepdiver Wrote:  

Go cave man Alpha always in sexual mode - hand on her knee and inner thighs at all possible times, sit next to her while eating, drinking, watching a movie, driving... work the palm of your hand right up to her mons venus and use your fingers to probe and see how wet she is - have a bang roll in the back of the Hummer - bang her everywhere, in the woods, out fishing or camping, in the back of the hummer in the middle of the day (this is what rear tinted windows are for) - in the muddy grass in the rain with only rain slickers on her covered with mud and your cum running down her thighs afterwards, on the kitchen table and in the shower - at the movies in the Hummer - I make every woman I am with know WITHOUT A DOUBT that I see her as a sexual animal and can't wait to practice Alpha insemination inside her - of course if she is not "THE ONE" use protection - goes without saying no need for baby daddy baby momma drama with unsuitable specimens.

Part of what keeps a woman around you is knowing you always will take sex from her and phuck her hard but never knowing exactly when or where - keeps them in a constant state of arousal... becoming a Neomasculine Alpha is as much about your sexual appetites as anything else.

This is all solid advice. I have no issues being aggressive on dates. My game is solid there. I'm super-weak at the cold approach and I've always relied on the girls being the aggressor and taken what came my way. I'm older now and not content with 6's and 7's.

I'm not socially awkward at all -- just reserved and selfish with words. I've been thinking on it all day and I'm leaning towards thinking these are just "negs" girls are throwing my way and I need to not take them so damn personally and blow them off and keep gaming like she hadn't said a word.

If so, what would be the recommendation on how to game approaches? Obviously experiment but more direct or indirect? Maybe lay off the cocky and stroke her ego a bit?

[egionesco]

I'm pretty sure that guy pictured can get plenty of action, if OP really looks like that, looks are not the issue.

[Remington]

Wow, sounds like y'all have some great problems.

Meanwhile, I have scheduled a dermatologist appointment to unfuck my face

[TornadoByProxy]

I'm going to be brutally honest with you. Not trying to hate although I know I'm being harsh.

You probably aren't as attractive as you hope you are. Women flatter men's looks all the time. You ever hear the saying, listen to her actions, not her words?

You're 6-2 and only 160 pounds. Do you even lift bro? And you're 38 and you post a picture of a 20 year old as your example picture. You are most likely a 6 or 7, maybe an 8, but the more important thing is, it doesn't matter. Women do not fall all over a 10 like guys do. And they don't disqualify a guy they like because he is too good looking. That's the excuse they tell guys they perceive as vain to go away.

You're not a troll so stop focusing on looks. Your problem lies elsewhere. And the "too good looking" excuse is bullshit.

From what you have written you are very insecure. You don't make a lot of money and have 1 notch in the past 6 months. I don't think you have good game and are looking for an excuse.

My advice, first, as an older guy, do not go asshole or caveman or any of that bullshit. Go read the over 40 thread to get an idea of how you should start acting. Act like an experienced man. If you look young, stop wearing a blazer. Dress the way your model guy would dress. Do you think he wears blazers?

and most important, you need to find a guy who you think is definitely better looking than you. Someone near your age. Go wing for him and see how he handles women. This will expose all of the "I'm too good looking" bullshit in your head and you can start to develop the game that works for you.