[Oz.]

Please we all know women are mainly attracted to a strong provider

[Tex Cruise]

(01-29-2016 09:18 PM)Onto Wrote:  

I rest my case.

I think what you meant to say was "I stand by my analysis"

[Pride male]

The younger and dumber a girl is, the more she cares about looks.

Personally I have seen ugly tall guys get more pussy than short good looking guys.

Still NAWALT. Some girls go for looks, others money and others personality.

[Heart Break Kid]

(01-29-2016 10:23 PM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  

^ It's true most people over-estimate their looks.

I get asked if I'm a model about 2-3 a year if that counts for something.

In retrospect, it was my total lack of game awareness and know-it-all personality that turned girls off. Like you said ... below average girls did make themselves blatantly available. I remember freshman year this Finnish blonde I met the same night straight up invited me to her room. I followed her and she starts grinding on me.

Instead of fucking her brains out, I decide to play sophisticated gentleman and start talking about the Russo-Finish winter war of 1939 and how brave the Finns were in defending their country. I thought I was impressing her with my worldliness & how much i knew about her country especially as a black guy breaking the stereotype and what not. Don't think the Sahara could have been as dry as her pussy afterwards.

Negative game is a real thing.

Legit lol'd.

[Windom Earle]

At the risk of stating the obvious, women are attracted to the guys that they are predisposed to be attracted to, i.e. their type. This incorporates both looks and personality.

"Good looking" has a wider subjective bandwidth among women than it does men, which hinges on their emotions.

Maybe you remind her of someone from the past, someone with rugged features (not objectively good looking), that caused her to moisten, albeit unrequited. It was in the way he spoke (modulation of voice), the nuances of his demeanor and the confident way in which he carried himself. Maybe this someone is but a fictional character of the screen.

Nevertheless, she was sold on this "package", where it may not even register with some other women at all. Because she sees similar things in you, you're essentially the substitute for her to play out her fantasies. Stray from this narrative however, and you can just as easily be relegated to the "not her type" category, contingent on her fickleness.

Conversely, if you aren't her type from the outset, you can game them, lay them, even get mini-relationship happening if your game is strong, but she'll never be 100% sold on you (and will have the power in the relationship because you're into her more than she is into you, providing she's hot).

[Cobra]

(01-29-2016 09:39 PM)B-Nut Wrote:  

(01-29-2016 09:05 PM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  

I might be one of the prettiest guys on this forum and got 0 pussy freshman year of college.

Girls i never met would approach me at parties and say shit like " You're sooooo beautiful", "If you were a girl i'd turn lesbian for you" etc ... but when i tried escalating they'd shut me down and oftentimes fucked guys who looked like ogres.

I'd argue a man's face is the LEAST important aspect that contributes to his attractiveness. Girls can acknowledge and appreciate your face like they would a painting but it does absolutely nothing in-terms of raw sexual attraction.

Elliot Rodger was a pretty good looking dude but shot up a bunch of people because he got no pussy.



Whereas ugly D-list rapper Danny Brown gets blowjobs on stage and had bitches throwing themselves at him even before he got mini-famous according to friends.



Notice the two guys' facial expressions. A 10 year old can tell you who gets more girls despite their huge disparity in facial attractiveness. As a man the expression on your face which is a reflection of your inner state and confidence, is infinitely more important than your face itself. There are no ugly men. Just weak ones.

Unless they have an obvious genetic defect, i urge guys to stop using their face as an excuse

it does absolutely nothing in-terms of raw sexual attraction.

come on guys, these arguments can be countered just as easily by the endless amount of fake tinder profiles with models where chicks just bang the guy even though he purposely acts like an autistic aspie.

Completely disagree face does not generate raw sexual attraction. Shit, chicks bang millions of guys a day based on face pictures alone online. And they go straight to these guys house. Where exactly is the "game" ? Heck, if a guy is attractive enough she does not even shit test the man, because he is so much smv points above her.

A boring guy with a good face in the women's eyes is a "confident interesting man" while a game aware pick up artist with a bad face can just as easily be a "weird uncalibrated loser" to the same woman.

Your game denialism is suspect. Girls do go over due to seeing a guy's face on tinder but bangs require an iota of game at the very least.

[Hoo]

(01-30-2016 02:48 AM)Cobra Wrote:  

(01-29-2016 09:39 PM)B-Nut Wrote:  

(01-29-2016 09:05 PM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  

I might be one of the prettiest guys on this forum and got 0 pussy freshman year of college.

Girls i never met would approach me at parties and say shit like " You're sooooo beautiful", "If you were a girl i'd turn lesbian for you" etc ... but when i tried escalating they'd shut me down and oftentimes fucked guys who looked like ogres.

I'd argue a man's face is the LEAST important aspect that contributes to his attractiveness. Girls can acknowledge and appreciate your face like they would a painting but it does absolutely nothing in-terms of raw sexual attraction.

Elliot Rodger was a pretty good looking dude but shot up a bunch of people because he got no pussy.



Whereas ugly D-list rapper Danny Brown gets blowjobs on stage and had bitches throwing themselves at him even before he got mini-famous according to friends.



Notice the two guys' facial expressions. A 10 year old can tell you who gets more girls despite their huge disparity in facial attractiveness. As a man the expression on your face which is a reflection of your inner state and confidence, is infinitely more important than your face itself. There are no ugly men. Just weak ones.

Unless they have an obvious genetic defect, i urge guys to stop using their face as an excuse

it does absolutely nothing in-terms of raw sexual attraction.

come on guys, these arguments can be countered just as easily by the endless amount of fake tinder profiles with models where chicks just bang the guy even though he purposely acts like an autistic aspie.

Completely disagree face does not generate raw sexual attraction. Shit, chicks bang millions of guys a day based on face pictures alone online. And they go straight to these guys house. Where exactly is the "game" ? Heck, if a guy is attractive enough she does not even shit test the man, because he is so much smv points above her.

A boring guy with a good face in the women's eyes is a "confident interesting man" while a game aware pick up artist with a bad face can just as easily be a "weird uncalibrated loser" to the same woman.

Your game denialism is suspect. Girls do go over due to seeing a guy's face on tinder but bangs require an iota of game at the very least.

Not game but having enough testosterone to escalate when time is right And half-decent social skills so you don't fuck yourself out of an easy lay.

[mikado]

Personally I am not ripped (became a bit chubby these days, need to get back to the gym) and my face is objectively maybe a 5. Almost no lays from bar/club though I can dance and enjoy the night by myself and girls see that. My face just does not draw them in.

So I hit the online market to score some. The interesting thing is that I used the exact and only photo for all the dating apps I got into. On Tinder I got pretty much 0 match, just 1 single long conversation and number in maybe 6 months. So when I am judged solely on my body/pics I get none. This is the case for all apps where there are pretty much only your pics in your profile, and nothing else. HOWEVER on AdopteUnMec, where you obviously have to put pictures, but also a more complete profile including

A Description
A shopping list (what I want in a girl)
Music I like
Books I read
Movies and TV/series I watch
My hobbies
And it's free for girls (guys have to pay, so this weeds out the cheap bastards)

Surprisingly I have been doing relatively well. Not the same as someone like Kaotic, or Soup. However last weeks I have pretty much at least 1/2 dates per week and countless phone numbers.1 girl out of 4 who visits my profile agrees to talk to me.
Quality is getting higher also (7-7.5) than at the start. And I have gone out with career girls, ratchet ones, "good girls", smart ones, dumb ones, etc. Why that difference?

I have a very literar, relatively funny and poetic side even tough I am a scientist. It shows in my description and my shopping list(and in my conversations)/ I just can't do that on Tinder (girls do not read anything). However on AUM, I can enjoy myself and draw the girl in (usually). Even my profile picture is in concordance with my character. Interestingly enough, when I use the same jokes and attitude with girls I met IRL instead of online, it doesn't work as well. Because the attraction isn't just there enough. And I have mostly no passive value from the get-go. So it is more complicated.
When I spoke to some girls, they said that what they liked on my profile was not my face, but the attitude in my picture and my description, looking like I enjoyed life and always taking it easy and relax.


Now compare this to my friend who is ripped, good-looking and is doing online too. Sure he gets more Tinder matches and AUM girls who accept to talk to him. However he is not a male 8 (the kind of guys who just almost any girl wants to fuck right off the bat on online), I would rate him a 7. His dates and bangs / conversations ratio is worser than me. Because he is not as smooth on text as me (IRL he does better though, and at least one girl will approach him in every social setting he is)

Regarding the initial assessment of OP, I would say this is true to some extent obviously. For me you must yourself in a position where she can't avoid seeing your personality and passive value. Guys more good-looking than you will probably outshine you most of the time. However that can't be used as an excuse to justify your failures. Because your personality can definitely help you get the sale. Good looks or not (as long you are not butt ugly)

What I infered from this experience is that if lookswise you are not on top, then you'd better get in a niche where your value is showcased passively, makes a difference with all other guys, and makes her feel safe and about to experience something new (I don't want to brag but I don't think there are many guys with a better description than me, and I got some unique routines that are really working well in getting me dates - posted my favourite one on the forum actually)

Whether it is your looks, your personnality, your humor, your social status etc, you will still have to be above average in one domain. So WHO CARES if you have the face of a male 8, or not. Be interesting somewhere. AND find the places and settings where you will shine. I found mine on AdopteUnMec, and I will stick there.

Have fun!

[Windom Earle]

(01-29-2016 09:39 PM)B-Nut Wrote:  

it does absolutely nothing in-terms of raw sexual attraction.

come on guys, these arguments can be countered just as easily by the endless amount of fake tinder profiles with models where chicks just bang the guy even though he purposely acts like an autistic aspie.

Completely disagree face does not generate raw sexual attraction. Shit, chicks bang millions of guys a day based on face pictures alone online. And they go straight to these guys house. Where exactly is the "game" ? Heck, if a guy is attractive enough she does not even shit test the man, because he is so much smv points above her.

A boring guy with a good face in the women's eyes is a "confident interesting man" while a game aware pick up artist with a bad face can just as easily be a "weird uncalibrated loser" to the same woman.

Enough re-quoting massive slabs already.

Hoo and B-Nut, get the fuck out with these baseless opinions and inane comments.

The women going straight to guys' houses without at least a brief meetup in a public place (of which the instances would be rare at best) are likely to be damaged sluts, no greater than 6 on the scale, since a "rational" chick will possess a healthy fear of something dire happening to her and won't be comfortable with a sight unseen meetup. Why do you think there is so much discussion about building comfort on the forum? A good looking guy may secure it more easily, but it's still a factor, for the women that are worth it at least.

(01-30-2016 03:10 AM)Hoo Wrote:  

Not game but having enough testosterone to escalate when time is right. And half-decent social skills so you don't fuck yourself out of an easy lay.

So testosterone is the key. Got it.

Game is social skills, calibrated for picking up and maintaining relationships with women.

[Blueberry]

Some of my ex girlfriends told me that my attractive face was the thing that attracted them in the first place.
But then you have to seal the deal and that's when personality comes.
I can't even count how many times I screw up with girls when younger because I was too shy and not confident the girl will like me even when obvious signs were telling me otherwise.
It also depends greatly on the country.
I'm a french guy, 5'8 and slim, so I'm far from huge.
I had the hardest time ever in Australia with girls. I realized looking at australian guys that I was not tall and muscular enough.
European girls generally prefer well dressed good looking guys even if not huge instead of the tall and muscular types that anglo girls crave.
In Brazil it depends on the girl, but a lot of them told me that brazilian dudes are ugly and they liked that I was good looking and european.
I've never been in eastern europe apart from the airport in Moscow. I've never been eye fucked so much. Makes me want to visit.

[EDantes]

(01-29-2016 07:36 PM)Brian Shima Wrote:  

Why? Im not sure, women are funny creatures sometimes. It took me a while to realize that my cute face was the reason i was doing better than these meat heads and real outgoing guys. Your clothing and body helps of course but you can have a good amount of leeway with both if you have the good looking face..

So shave and get nice facial hair, use facial masks, get your teeth nice, do what ya gotta do for your face. To many guys dont do one thing for their face but will bust their ass in the gym and spend crazy money on clothes..

Disagree with you, it's really posture, humor, charisma, etc

I have a handsome face but the times when I've had the best luck with women is when I was in an upbeat, confident mood.

[Kieran]

The most successful people I've known have come in all shapes and sizes but have a combination of confidence, humour, and comfort with being sexual and escalating. Before I went to university, I worked with a young kid in a call centre and to watch him work was poetry. Any girl would become attracted if he had 5 mins or so to work on them - all ages, ethnicities, and types. He had management wrapped around his finger and could get away with anything. He was fairly non-descript looks wise, though certainly not ugly, played football but had never seen the inside of a gym in his life.

Of course good facial looks, body, height, and style can only help, but generally won't do the work for you.

[Stimulus]

Ofcourse looking good is always better than being some ugly mofo, no doubt about that. People, men in particular but also women just in a lesser degree, are attracted by looks. Not only among humans but also regarding houses, cars, clothes etc.

This however, like PapayaTapper rightfully stated, is only initially the most important aspect of a total package (like Wisdom Earle said).

That car might be a stunning piece of design, without engine it wont get you anywhere. That house might be 'Rock Star', but fuck me, there's no devided spaces, just some shiney outer walls. Those clothes you saw? The fabric itches like hell.. Some dissapointments right?

Now there is another car, less stunning but a test drive is free of charge so why not try it? You know where I'm going at, it's a hell of a ride and you want that car, bad.

So while good looks are initially a huge factor, it might (and often goes) downhill fast. Not solely because a lack of good (don't fuck up) game, but more so it's a matter of expectations. Expectations we created based upon visual incitement.

Needless to say, that ugly mofo with good game is near the bottom of the hill to begin with. So she'll be pleasantly surprised by his personality (good game), shifts her view and voila.. He might just bang that hottie while his more visual attractive counterpart goes home with a 5 that just wants to be fucked by a good looking guy for once, despite his personality.

[Phoenix]

Is it possible all this disagreement is just that different girls prefer different things?

We all know about the tits & ass divide. Some dudes get off more on big titties than round asses, others vice versa.

Is it possible that some girls only care about face? Other girls are more interested in height or muscles? Others just want a cashed-up baller or a dude with some fame? Others have a more balance mixture?

Male attractiveness is massively more dimensional than women. Concordantly, so too are the traits men present to gain attraction. Further concordantly, would you not expect women's attraction instincts to be similarly multidimensional? Why would you assume that genes cause massive variety in physical attributes, but that all women must have identical attraction recipes?

This stuff is no different to the "you call that a 9? that's a 6!" debates.

Improve your stuff, present your stuff, and find the girls who dig it. Otherwise best clear off to Seoul to get your face powergrinded.

[Kieran]

Good post Phoenix. I agree. Even the same girl can be attracted to completely different types, and at the same time.

[Lechon]

(01-29-2016 09:05 PM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  

I might be one of the prettiest guys on this forum and got 0 pussy freshman year of college.

Girls i never met would approach me at parties and say shit like " You're sooooo beautiful", "If you were a girl i'd turn lesbian for you" etc ... but when i tried escalating they'd shut me down and oftentimes fucked guys who looked like ogres.

I'd argue a man's face is the LEAST important aspect that contributes to his attractiveness. Girls can acknowledge and appreciate your face like they would a painting but it does absolutely nothing in-terms of raw sexual attraction.

Elliot Rodger was a pretty good looking dude but shot up a bunch of people because he got no pussy.

But that's how it is with every top male attribute. You can be a billionaire, have an insane body, be a pro fighter or intelligent and funny as hell, and still get nothing from girls. You have to have a minimum of game, natural or acquired, to achieve any attraction. But when you have that minimum, those hard assets suddenly skyrocket your market value. And having great facial features is one of those top assets.

[rudebwoy]

Girls are master trolls, I stopped listening to them along time ago.

I have seen too many examples where this isn't the case.

I can take you to countries, where you will say what the fuck.

Personality, goes a long way. Most dudes are boring, don't be one of them.

[joost]

I guess game denial comes from young men frequenting this forum.

Looks works with girls from 15 to 20. At that age a girl has already a provider (his dad). When she enters the workforce and realizes how much you have to work to buy shit, she starts to value money/power much more.

[masoud_akbari]

I never understood game denialism to be honest

Even if hypothetically you did game and for whatever reason never got laid, there are still benefits you would gain. (Such as overcoming anxiety, becoming healthier by lifting weights). Surely that would make you become a better person.

[jayko]

O rly? i thought number one thing they look at is moolah!

[XPQ22]

I'm pretty heavily balding and do OK, even with women in their 20s. I am fairly tall, though, so I guess there's that.

Occasionally I'll wear some concealer, but the only place that matters much more is online.

It's funny that the first thing an insecure guy will say to you to put you down is to comment on your hair loss, like that "chode" in the RSD video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDy08-RphI8

Women either don't care, or if they do, don't bring it up.

[The_CEO]

Good looking guy here...

When I was younger, I was walking and a girl w/ her mom, stopped the car, got out, told me I look like a movie star, and gave me her #. There are other anecdotes I have like this, but this one is sufficient.

This type of thing is rare, especially now that I'm older. Most of the time what I get are more frequent IOI's.

What I want to say though, is if you don't approach, if you just sit back and wait for IOI's or for women to approach you, you are limiting what you'll get and also limiting the quality you'll get.

The guys who are pounding the pavement and approaching, and not relying on their looks, get far better and far more results, than a passive good looking guy, or a good looking guy without game, or with poor "inner game".

Another downside about taking looks for granted is that they fade for all of us - and if your game sucks, then what?
Or it gives you a sense of entitlement that warps your reality (like you expect IOI's and are offended if you don't get them).

I regret that I didn't know about game 10 years ago, or that I didn't approach when I should have - and I can also give examples of unattractive guys I knew who dated or banged women I wanted to...they had the balls to go for it.

If you have at least average looks, combined with game and personal development, you have all you need to succeed.
And even if you're below average in terms of looks, you can still do well - through effort and application of game.

As Roosh says in the end of one of his books, "One day you will die, just go up and say the words..."

[XPQ22]

(01-30-2016 02:10 PM)The_CEO Wrote:  

I regret that I didn't know about game 10 years ago, or that I didn't approach when I should have - and I can also give examples of unattractive guys I knew who dated or banged women I wanted to...they had the balls to go for it.

Yup, I was a good looking young guy 15 years ago, but because of a messed-up childhood, very insecure. Thinking about all the lays I lost out on because of that is painful.

I could have really killed it had I had some game.

Oh well. I'm still "young enough" that there's some time to make it up.

[greekgod]

Lets get something straight here; women are beyond fickle, to say they value one trait over another in absolute terms means you're spending toooooo much time on "game theory" and in an echo chamber.

Two 21 year olds are at a Superbowl after party; one may fuck the suave, high school QB good looks twenty something business man with 500K to his name and the other may fuck his 55 year old business partner with decades of status, millions of dollars, and a less than great mug. Either way, they are fucking.

If you google why women have sex(I clicked a Hpost headline about this once, very gay, I know), the answers will make you wish you hadnt read this thread. Now, whether or not you believe their answers (we know better) is another story.

What the OP is really trying to make a case for is inbound vs. outbound. Facial attractiveness gets you noticed, inbound, no effort on your part except showing up. Status, posture, dress, tonality, cadence, or the way you carry yourself require outbound effort (you have to minimally think about it until it becomes unconscious) to make yourself known.

Now the reality is; you still have a few steps to go after getting noticed to seal the deal. This is where "game" comes into play. Unless ofcourse you're in HS or college, then good looks will generally be enough. Even so, its never the best looking boy (can't believe I'm typing this) that gets the most ass. Its the one with the most social capital.

Don't believe me? Great, lets send college aged pretty boy from Malibu and his girlfriends on a road trip to the desert. Uh, oh, their car breaks down. They make their way into a biker bar and are stuck there for 12 hours. Guess what chico? Malibu boys just lost their girls to those ugly ass, unkempt bikers.

Now do the opposite, bikers end up in pretty boys club in LA. Yeah, they will be outcasts but I can guarantee plenty of girls will make themselves available.

Its survival instinct; Status>Looks.

You are suggesting a very feminine mindset when it comes to game; what you are blessed with is where your station is in life.

EHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, wrong. You're a man, you can be whoever you want, and a dude with true presence that comes from the formation of trying and failing and eventually succeeding will generally be more attractive. Their innergame is rock solid and that wins the test of time.

All that being said; looks sure as shit help and definitely help one gain status. Everything is tied together.

[blck]

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