[EDantes]

I can't stand this myself.

I hear more and more stories of loser married males who become the bitch in a relationship:

*Woman cheats on her "perfect" (aka provider) husband and tells him she regrets it (because she doesn't want to be kicked out of the house that he pays for with his money).

*Loser takes the cheating wife back because "he wants to save the marriage" or because "it's for the kids!" or some pussy-ass excuse like that.

*Woman now knows she has no consequence for cheating, so she continues to fuck the pizza boy in the husband's bed while he's out at work - knowing she can get away with it Scott-free now, because hey, it's "for the kids!".

(And if she gets pregnant from one of her dalliances she can just rely on the loser to pay for the other man's kid, or just divorce him and live off his alimony).

*And to top it off, if they do have kids, the kids will now grow up taking after their loser parents and thinking that cheating or being cheated on is okay.

I don't think it always used to be this way (ex. when I watch The Godfather with Al Pacino I don't think of him as a pussy just because he has a wife and kids and isn't 'playing' women). Today however it seems like if a guy is married, it's most likely because he's just a pussy who became a beta provider since he never learned how to be attractive to women except as a paycheck.

So what the hell happened that turned marriage into a mockery of its former self? Today you might as well just be a player because it's a hell of a lot less risky than getting married.

[Moma]

Where did you hear these stories from?

[Beyond Borders]

Let's be fair, I hear about and observe a lot of single guys being pussies too.

[Möbius band]

I think in general cheating is exaggerated a lot. I think more realistic is that women just don't put out, and many people have sexless marriages. In this case, many guys are too beta to do anything about it.

[YossariansRight]

They get comfortable and complacent.

Like anything else, if you stop tending to "it", it (in this case, it = natural maleness) , it atrophies and dies off.

[Horus]

Is this thread somehow related to this thread you posted earlier? I'm not trying to be mean - just wonder if this is in any way related to your personal experiences. If so, you'd hardly be the only guy here who has experienced similar circumstances.

[thoughtgypsy]

I think it's quite simple. The legal and social environment has changed. In the past, a woman divorcing would be shunned by society, treated with shame, and be forced to struggle on her own in the career world.

Now she's rewarded with cash and prizes, and everyone automatically sides with her. If she cheated, it's because she just wasn't 'happy', or her husband was 'abusing' her by not letting her spend their last $200 on makeup and shoes.

A woman has all the leverage in this situation, and is rewarded for blowing up her marriage. A man is playing russian roulette every day he's married. She's got all the power in the arrangement, so she can treat the husband however she wants and get away with it.

[EDantes]

(01-25-2016 10:05 AM)Horus Wrote:  

Is this thread somehow related to this thread you posted earlier? I'm not trying to be mean - just wonder if this is in any way related to your personal experiences. If so, you'd hardly be the only guy here who has experienced similar circumstances.

Not that thread in particular, but in the media in general I hear about more and more stories like this, and know a lot of those "nice guys" who just don't get it.

I've never been married but I've known guys like that in real life (ex. thought they were "in love", got cheated on, ignored all the warning signs, etc) and never wanted to wind up there

[AntiTrace]

Several issues at play:

1. The husband spends the vast majority of his time around his wife. His masculinity suffers as a result. It's incredibly difficult to maintain a strong alpha frame in a long term relationship, it is easy to get slowly broken down over the years.

2. Married couples tend to socialize with other married couples. That means said husband normally has other married men as friends. Those friends are just as broken down as he is. These aren't the type of men to say "She cheated? Kick that bitch out. The kids will be fine, it's worse off for them to force it to work" and definitely are not the type to say "She cheated? Awesome! Kick the bitch out and lets go pick up some fresh 21 yo strange from the bar!".

3. Divorce is a complete disaster for most men. Especially when kids are involved. Draconian divorce laws in the US coddle women while they enslave men.

Take a man, break him down physically and emotionally. Rob him of his confidence that he is a desirable male. Throw some kids in the mix that he cares about. Then severely punish him for leaving. That is how you get the "pussy" you describe.

[Heart Break Kid]

How is this exclusive to married men? Bachelors do all the things that are listed in the OP more or less. If anything it is worse when people get bitched around with their girlfriend, at least with a wife there is collateral so there is more reason to be more submissive.

[Khan]

Good points have been made, but I think only Heart Break Kid and Beyond Borders came close to the real reason for this.

Human sexual hierarchy is at play here.

In today's world, women's participation in the workforce coupled with elimination of religious/moral regulations of sexual behavior led to female sexuality being unconstrained and released in its primordial form. Also, in the absence of patriarchal culture our society is largely feminized.

What does this mean for men? Just like during caveman times, the majority of men in today's world are sexually unattractive to women. By and large, women crave for alphas - we all know that. However, the majority of alphas won't even think of settling down and marrying, so your modern woman has to bargain and settle for a provider beta once she hits the wall and starts approaching 30.

This is where the average dude comes into play. He has followed all societal norms which have been taught to him since childhood (be nice, well-mannered, hard-working and the girls will flock to you), yet he never found success with the ladies. Eventually however, he'll find an average girl that likes him and get himself into a LTR or two. Being subconsciously very aware of his status in the sexual marketplace, and brainwashed into thinking that's the right thing to do, he'll end up marrying his girl. And there you have it, your sissified beta husband is born.

However, the worst thing about this is that those guys really have no better alternative. Remember, the vast majority of men will never discover, let alone swallow the red pill. They're completely in the dark, and game is unavailable to them. What are they going to do, sit at home alone and jerk off to porn? They're men, with sexual impulses that have to be satisfied somehow. If it has to be once per month with an ugly wife, then so be it.

As I see it, so many married guys are pussies because they have no other option.

I see this everywhere around me. Average men, who could have fared much better had they invested in self-improvement, shackled to ugly and fat wives. It really terrifies me in a way.

[The Black Knight]

(01-25-2016 10:06 AM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  

I think it's quite simple. The legal and social environment has changed. In the past, a woman divorcing would be shunned by society, treated with shame, and be forced to struggle on her own in the career world.

Now she's rewarded with cash and prizes, and everyone automatically sides with her. If she cheated, it's because she just wasn't 'happy', or her husband was 'abusing' her by not letting her spend their last $200 on makeup and shoes.

A woman has all the leverage in this situation, and is rewarded for blowing up her marriage. A man is playing russian roulette every day he's married. She's got all the power in the arrangement, so she can treat the husband however she wants and get away with it.

Pretty much this. Women for the past several decades have had enormous legal and social leverage in marriages. In fairness though, there is a slightly growing minority of women (sole high earners with stay-at-home husbands) today who are experiencing many of the same issues (more financial, less social) because of fucked up divorce laws. I know men and women who stay in marriages mostly because they can't pay the enormous cost of divorce. On top of potential child support, it would kill them financially.

If a man or woman is the sole financial provider, often times he/she can't afford a divorce and their partner knows this and uses it against them. I have seen both male and female financial dependents abuse their position. In turn, the financial provider turns into a pussy as a way to cope with the reality and just accepts the abuse as a way of life. Many hide behind "staying together for the kids" but that is just a bullshit front. Once they are in too deep financially with their spouse, they will rationalize all kinds of bullshit to avoid reality. I don't condone it but I understand it.

What really needs to change are divorce laws for sole-provider families and make divorce less punitive for the earner in the family. Makes no sense that a sole-provider is required to provide after the other spouse leaves; the whole "lifestyle they have become accustom to" non-sense standard should be outlawed. A small pre-defined severance to assist with transitioning is reasonable for a long marriage but getting a divorce in America is like going to the hospital without insurance: You know its going to cost a lot but you won't know the cost until you get the bill. This unknown factor scares a lot of sole-providers (mostly men) into acting like pussies.

The leverage the non-earning spouse (typically a woman) has in divorce now is absolutely insane and is anti-family to its core. I will NEVER get married in the US given the current laws. You have to insane, stupid, or naive to do it otherwise.

[mack_hand]

As i recently kicked a fairly hot asian divorced woman who is full time unemployed with a 10 year old kid to the curb I let her know on the way out that bad mouthing her ex husband who pays full alimony ,her rent in fort greene brooklyn [which ain’t cheap] made her appear as a foul and disgusting parasitical leach that i wanted nothing to do with.
This cunt wasn’t even looking for part time work to keep herself busy.
As i pondered the situation in my rear view mirror I felt pangs of disgust for the ex husband that is now tethered to this bitch legally...for at least 8 more years.
Poor schmuck he is,although at a bare minimum he is free of her presence.
Chalk it up to one more reason never to get married and or not having a prenup that serves you.

[General Stalin]

In most modern marriages, the woman has the power.

Today, average women have more perceived options than average men, and generally have more support from the government and society in the event of divorce and even the split up of an unconsummated relationship. Because of this, a woman's general baseline market value is higher than a man's.

Most men will keep a relationship going that sucks merely because he doesn't want to be alone and sexless. On the other side, most women know that they can easily get other men. This situation is due to a mixture of current cultural/social/gender dynamics that have been evolving over the past several decades, and the societal changes do to technology in the information age.

[Moma]

(01-25-2016 11:52 AM)mack_hand Wrote:  

As i recently kicked a fairly hot asian divorced woman who is full time unemployed with a 10 year old kid to the curb I let her know on the way out that bad mouthing her ex husband who pays full alimony ,her rent in fort greene brooklyn [which ain’t cheap] made her appear as a foul and disgusting parasitical leach that i wanted nothing to do with.
This cunt wasn’t even looking for part time work to keep herself busy.
As i pondered the situation in my rear view mirror I felt pangs of disgust for the ex husband that is now tethered to this bitch legally...for at least 8 more years.
Poor schmuck he is,although at a bare minimum he is free of her presence.
Chalk it up to one more reason never to get married and or not having a prenup that serves you.

Are prenups truly that iron clad?

[not_dead_yet]

(01-25-2016 12:21 PM)Moma Wrote:  

Are prenups truly that iron clad?

Why take the chance? If she wants to get married and you must acquiesce, do a religious ceremony, do not get a marriage license (and avoid community property states), and (if you must) put a cohabitation agreement in place.

Seems too easy for a biased judge to eff you and throw out your prenup.

[Dr. Howard]

(01-25-2016 12:05 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

In most modern marriages, the woman has the power.

Today, average women have more perceived options than average men, and generally have more support from the government and society in the event of divorce and even the split up of an unconsummated relationship. Because of this, a woman's general baseline market value is higher than a man's.

Most men will keep a relationship going that sucks merely because he doesn't want to be alone and sexless. On the other side, most women know that they can easily get other men. This situation is due to a mixture of current cultural/social/gender dynamics that have been evolving over the past several decades, and the societal changes do to technology in the information age.

I agree. I wish I were 18-19 nowadays to see how marital dynamics play out among my friends during shitty economic conditions. I can only observe from articles and rumor but so far what I can tell is:

1. Bad economic conditions, have made most men unattractive as providers to women. Your traditional trophy wives are turning to soft prostitution online vs. marrying a dentist.

2. Bad behavior, independence, divorce punishments, sluttiness and zero domestic skills have made men afraid of marriage or generally disinterested in women for more than pussy and companionship.

This results in a general marital decline. If either of these scales tip there will be an increase in marriage rates again.

On the ground, is any of this true from the experiences of the younger forum members?

The only young people I know getting married are church going christians.

[heavy]

It's easy to get personally worked up about this, but I feel it's more of a societal issue than personal one.

Our current society does not promote the family (man women children) as the foundational core. This is due to a number of large measures over the last 60 years that are talked about here ad nauseam...required public screwal that removes parental responsibility, delocalization of it, female hiring quotas (in whatever form, even if only by societal pressures), domestic spending, federal takeover of everything removing men's ability to affect his local town/region.

By taking away the family as the core of society, we've castrated the majority of men and allowed a few at the top to be in charge. It's a positive feedback system, as this simply makes men less likely to care...about marriage, kids, town, city, etc.

If they don't care, they become loser married males. Yossarian has a point, "like anything else, if you stop tending to "it", it (in this case, it = natural maleness) , it atrophies and dies off", but the uphill climb to be ALPHA HUSBAND FATHER PROVIDER etc is far steeper than it used to be.

It's not a far steeper climb to be alpha and get laid...dare I say it's easier. It is a far steeper climb to be alpha and get laid as the provider / husband / father.

I don't see this among my friends, but my demographic is young (married no kids or young kids), college grads and successful $$, and natural alphas who've done well their entire lives.

Personally, if I think of wanting family kids etc, it can be upsetting.

On the flip side, I have better unmarried sex than most of my friends...with hotties younger than me or with those divorcees who had kids with those jerks.

Most of the chics I've run across were actually married to jerks or losers...it's just that now, they can divorce them. Before they couldn't. I offer that less of a jerk and less of a loser option who's also attractive (because I'm older and wiser than I once was).

[Ingocnito]

Something that's fairly natural with couples, married or not, is "modeling." Essentially adopting some of the other's behavior, mannerisms, etc.

The fine line to not cross over is where you lose your natural masculine frame to somehow accommodate this modeling behavior.

That's part of the trap - on both the personality side, as well as leadership side - adopting FIRST too many modeled idiosyncrasies of your partner, THEN the door is open to the NEXT step which is supplication via this new-founded extreme "comfort zone" you've made.

Why are so many married men pussies? Because it's easier to be a pussy, than a man.

Set aside the extreme cases of flat-out physical cheating (well not so extreme & more commonplace nowadays) and just watching all the "oooo baby, sorry dear, how can I help" attitudes in public, and I entirely agree it's at epidemic stages.

[General Mayhem]

It's probably because they haven't read enough Roissy.

Honestly though, I think some married men get in the habit of "choosing their battles" which begins a painfully slow descent to hell as they continue on choosing less and less of those battles.

Meanwhile, their wives choose their battles too. The only difference is that the wives choose every battle.

This isn't the only reason, but it is what I have observed in most miserable married men.

[John Michael Kane]

The married men who are pussies now, were pussies before they were married. They were always deferential towards their woman, always asking for permission and constantly invoking the ire and contempt of whomever they dated. I know the type you talk about.

There are plenty of men who are happily married as well. These men that I know always lead with a strong frame, even when dating. Game isn't just for ONS, it is also a crucial tool for attracting and keeping a woman attracted to you in a LTR. I know a number of truly alpha men who have been married for many, many years and their wives still are deeply in love with them.

Marriage doesn't make men soft, soft men never were taught (or internalized) the importance of leading your woman!

[Vincent Chase]

(01-26-2016 02:13 PM)John Michael Kane Wrote:  

The married men who are pussies now, were pussies before they were married. They were always deferential towards their woman, always asking for permission and constantly invoking the ire and contempt of whomever they dated. I know the type you talk about.

Agree with this.

Many men who marry early tend to be pussies because they have married before they have lived and before they understand women. Imagine marrying at 25 to the "love of your life" which you've known for a few years, only had dated two other girls in the past. How much does he know what he's getting into? A lot of the time absolutely jack shit. Many men don't mature and develop frames until they reach their 30s or later. Yes it takes males often over 30 years to de-programme themselves of the Disney fantasy of what women are.

[John Michael Kane]

To add what Vincent mentioned above...

Keep in mind that many, many young men never had a proper alpha male role model that taught them how to become a strong man.

I don't think it takes till a man's 30's to become a mature, strong man---if he has a proper mentor.

With so many fatherless households and weak men not teaching their sons proper lessons they themselves don't know, mens' natural maturity process is drawn out artificially. There's no reason why a man can't be aware of the strengths and weaknesses of women and how to deal with them in a LTR or marriage by the time his is in his 20's. It comes back to male leadership, and mentoring from a young age. Why wait till you're older and learned from the school of hard knocks? Men get scarred too. As men who "get it", the best thing we can do is mentor other men younger than us, so that way they don't have to learn from harsh experiences.

[EDantes]

(01-26-2016 03:16 PM)John Michael Kane Wrote:  

To add what Vincent mentioned above...

Keep in mind that many, many young men never had a proper alpha male role model that taught them how to become a strong man.

I don't think it takes till a man's 30's to become a mature, strong man---if he has a proper mentor.

With so many fatherless households and weak men not teaching their sons proper lessons they themselves don't know, mens' natural maturity process is drawn out artificially. There's no reason why a man can't be aware of the strengths and weaknesses of women and how to deal with them in a LTR or marriage by the time his is in his 20's. It comes back to male leadership, and mentoring from a young age. Why wait till you're older and learned from the school of hard knocks? Men get scarred too. As men who "get it", the best thing we can do is mentor other men younger than us, so that way they don't have to learn from harsh experiences.

Truth be told - I didn't have a male role model growing up - but even from a young age I'd see all of the beta behavior in other men, and I just knew that it was wrong in some way, I knew there was something better out there than that even if I didn't have a man to model myself after

[1818Steve]

(01-25-2016 07:10 PM)General Mayhem Wrote:  

Honestly though, I think some married men get in the habit of "choosing their battles" which begins a painfully slow descent to hell as they continue on choosing less and less of those battles.

Meanwhile, their wives choose their battles too. The only difference is that the wives choose every battle.

This isn't the only reason, but it is what I have observed in most miserable married men.

^This. If the man does not choose the nuclear option (divorce) then he ends up just moving forward with his married life. Meanwhile the magpie keeps chattering...

I am referring to the typical marriage, the one which grinds away at you. The wife doing some sport fucking on the side is not typical IMO.