[Stimulus]

(02-08-2016 11:36 PM)Cobra Wrote:  

@the newbies

Breath a bit guys!

Betas, testosterone and Europe.

I'm frankly getting a bit annoyed by the "marriage sucks" posts by those that are not married and supposedly "seeing" men pussified through marriage. The view is extremely singular and one dimensional in the manosphere.

This is a game forum. First hand accounts would be nice whether it worked out or not. We ask for it in other game threads but in "marriage" threads we're willing to entertain second hand opinions. I don't get it.

Basically, we have guys providing opinions without having gone through the responsibility or struggle of raising a family and keeping a wife happy.

There are many guys here that can do approaches and get a girl into bed. It's either just as difficult if not much more to keep a home active with a happy wife and kids, especially if that wife works a full-time job just like you. A different kind of leadership and collaboration are required there; one that many here will find difficult to appreciate as of yet.

I don't agree with the bold part. In my opinion one does not necessarily need to be married in order to make up an opinion about marriage. Based on LTR experience, I think, someone can get a pretty clear view of how it could be. Adding kids into the marriage-mix obviously is on a whole different level, but not everyone has/wants kids.

Before discovering Game I was in a very long LTR (over a decade) not very different from being married. I never felt the urge to someday get married to her because of a few reasons, which I told her:

- It will not make me love you more than I already do
- It will not make me act any different towards you
- It will not make me think any different about you, myself or our relationship
- It will not make me feel more happy nor less happy about 'us', not even the slightest bit
- It will not change me or my behaviour in any way
- I refuse to get married against my will because 'society thinks that's the way life should be lived'.
(Finish school, start a career, find a partner, buy a house together, get married, have children, raise the children, work more, be grandparents, retire, enjoy retirement while babysitting my kids' children, die)
- The minor financial benefits attained by being Husband & Wife do not even come close to the major financial 'punch' being taken if we someday decide to break up and divorce

She however did want to marry me someday because:

- I want to wear a wedding dress
- I want to tell people you're my husband, not my boyfriend
- It's what we eventually should do, like all other people

Honestly I can't see any major benefits about being married vs just being a couple doing the same shit married people do. So what if she's not my wife by law, I can still call her that if I want to. I can still buy her a ring to wear. I can still have kids with her. I can still buy a house with her. I can do EVERYTHING married couples can do, just without some legal paper telling me the guillotine is coming down if we decide to end it.

Obviously, while looking back at these discussions with her and eventually breaking up, I'm thankfull to myself for not giving in and standing my ground.

[RonnieB]

I agree with you Stimulus, to me there's no added benefit of getting married. I don't view marriage as a sacred thing and I don't think a relationship will be any different once married.

Woman love the idea of getting married but I think that this love of marriage is mainly for the wedding day party where they get to act their 'fairytale' day and show off to others. If you say to a girl, fine we will get married but lets just do it at the registry office with no party they will flip out. It's not the idea of being married that excites them at all, it's all about their special day.

[Stimulus]

Their special day, exactly.. Centre of attention.

[262]

It should be noted, if it hasn't been already, that state marriage is a contract whose terms can be changed without your knowledge, never mind your consent.

Baby boomers were the first to experience that, largely because they enabled the socialism we know today (feminism is just socialism for women).

Also funny how feminists talk about consent like a broken record, but in the case of consenting to state marriage law changes ... silence.

[EndsExpect]

(02-11-2016 05:42 PM)RonnieB Wrote:  

I agree with you Stimulus, to me there's no added benefit of getting married. I don't view marriage as a sacred thing and I don't think a relationship will be any different once married.
Woman love the idea of getting married but I think that this love of marriage is mainly for the wedding day party where they get to act their 'fairytale' day and show off to others. If you say to a girl, fine we will get married but lets just do it at the registry office with no party they will flip out. It's not the idea of being married that excites them at all, it's all about their special day.

Then have some big flashy party, and then NEVER go to the registry office. I wonder how many women would go for that?

If you choose to have kids, a single mom has access to free government resources that a married woman simply does not. Yes, the government will come and take some money out of dad's paycheck, but it's literally a fraction of what you get in benefits. For example... the government will pay for your housing, electric, food, water, free school lunches. I mean the housing alone... You literally live there free and the government tries to recover $300 a month from you check? I'm telling you. I know some immigrant families and they know how to milk the system like you have never seen.

Here is the thing guys. Marriage is stupid. It sucks. I know this because I have been married twice and divorced once. The only reason I married again is because I wanted my current wife to stay in the USA with me. I don't regret it, because she is a wonderful wife. The first woman was an upper class American woman... and she was a miserable bitch... being married to her was horrible, but it made me grow as a man. When I married her I was a sad sorry sack Beta... and by the time we divorced I was more Alpha than Beta.

My philosophy on life is to never give up something good because you are afraid the outcome might be negative. Never make choices based on fear. We are men and we should be brave... rational but brave!

[jordypip23]

I was once married so I can speak to this. Unfortunately I'd say more than half of marriages in the USA result in a woman exploiting a man's Beta tendencies. It even turns former Alphas into Betas lol. It's a sorry situation. If you happen to be an exception to this new reality, you are lucky.

[EndsExpect]

(06-20-2018 12:00 AM)jordypip23 Wrote:  

I was once married so I can speak to this. Unfortunately I'd say more than half of marriages in the USA result in a woman exploiting a man's Beta tendencies. It even turns former Alphas into Betas lol. It's a sorry situation. If you happen to be an exception to this new reality, you are lucky.

Even a Beta can only take so much. The more horrific the woman... the greater the impetus for transformation, because you have nothing to lose.

A man who is a true Alpha never struggles to maintain frame because that frame is his reality... it's part of him. If a woman can come in and wreck that... what can we say about this man? Was he truly Alpha?

I now live in my frame. It's not 100% Alpha, but it's natural to who I am. No woman can change that... so they always wind up living in my frame not theirs... because mine is more dominant and more authentic.

[ChefAllDay]

(01-25-2016 10:25 AM)AntiTrace Wrote:  

Divorce is a complete disaster for most men. Especially when kids are involved. Draconian divorce laws in the US coddle women while they enslave men.

That pretty much sums up the entire problem IMO.

[Redcloud]

Marriage makes men pussies because that’s what is was designed to do.

Similar to organized religion, marriage was created to control populations. In this case, to control men from rebelling against the state by keeping them totally powerless in the face of the law.

Evolution spent hundreds of thousands of years refining the male into a hunting, fucking machine. Your prime directive is to impregnate as many women as possible so as to pass on your genetics.

This purpose is eliminated with the invention of marriage, and the side effect is the pussification of men.

[FullThrottleTX]

I'm happily divorced (going on 8 years now),
I don't think marriage inherently makes men pussies. Marriage makes a lot of sense in your late 40s or 50s if you can get some young thing to bare you're children - and are in a frame of not wanting to date anymore. Marriage in that case is a strategy for family survival. Most guys eventually have a paternal instinct of some kind. Marriage provides a good framework for handling kids.

But the worst situation for marriage is completely unrelated and more common: men settling for their high school sweethearts (these guys have no idea how to manage women), men not adequately playing the field before getting married (and regretting it), men in their 20s or 30s living with a girlfriend for 10 years before getting married to them (which is completely pointless). I know a lot of guys in their 20s who are trying to get married and the thing they all have in common is laziness and no desire to learn game out of some kind of desperation. They don't realize how they're setting themselves up for divorce rape. For a man to lazily give up his freedom for a chick, that's not the frame you want going into marriage. I see it all the time and I want to pull the guy aside and give him a pep talk.

I don't even know why I got married at 26, but I'm sorta different. I thought it would solve some of my personal problems (family problems - mostly), but it only made me feel more alienated... and I had regret for not banging more chicks. So I exited, found the Roosh, and learned game.

[EndsExpect]

(06-20-2018 10:07 PM)Redcloud Wrote:  

Marriage makes men pussies because that’s what is was designed to do.
Similar to organized religion, marriage was created to control populations. In this case, to control men from rebelling against the state by keeping them totally powerless in the face of the law.
Evolution spent hundreds of thousands of years refining the male into a hunting, fucking machine. Your prime directive is to impregnate as many women as possible so as to pass on your genetics.
This purpose is eliminated with the invention of marriage, and the side effect is the pussification of men.

This is a ridiculous opinion. First of all... going back even 100 years ago, life for your average man was hard as fuck! You needed sons to help you run the damn farm to keep from starving to death... or if you lived in the big city you needed the little bastards to work in the factory with you to help pay rent. Also... the ancient world didn't have social security... so you had to rely on children to take care of you when you became too old and infirm to work yourself.

Marriage provided a man children to help him, a wife to help him, and the addition of the wife's family to help protect anything you may build or save.

The stuff you are complaining about are generally new developments caused by technology making our lives easier, and fucking feminist cunts taking control of virtually everything.

[BadKing]

They have no leverage, they’re weak, they aren’t challenged enough in life to value it.

And for some it’s the way they are; just like all their male patrilineal ancestors before them. Feebleness runs in the blood.

[droughtmeat]

They settle for someone they don't really like. Most men want to married by a certain age and it's not so much about fit. So they take a subpar girl at age 26, stick with her and get married. Say what you want, but at 28,29,30 a man is nowhere near fully mentally developed, unless he fast forwarded his development by means of heavy adversity, extremely intense gaming, travel etc.

In order to justify marrying just about any girl, men tend to deify their woman. "Oh she's really special" and "oh I can always be my true self around her" but then they hide their friends, their past, their cellphones etc. from because they don't want her to see their actual true self.

More and more sacrifice and the idea that having sacrificed so much for this woman, it would be a shame to just give it all up. So might as well continue compromising and sacrificing.

[jordypip23]

(06-21-2018 02:12 AM)droughtmeat Wrote:  

They settle for someone they don't really like. Most men want to married by a certain age and it's not so much about fit. So they take a subpar girl at age 26, stick with her and get married. Say what you want, but at 28,29,30 a man is nowhere near fully mentally developed, unless he fast forwarded his development by means of heavy adversity, extremely intense gaming, travel etc.

In order to justify marrying just about any girl, men tend to deify their woman. "Oh she's really special" and "oh I can always be my true self around her" but then they hide their friends, their past, their cellphones etc. from because they don't want her to see their actual true self.

More and more sacrifice and the idea that having sacrificed so much for this woman, it would be a shame to just give it all up. So might as well continue compromising and sacrificing.

Tis true. The honeymoon always ends eventually. The real question is whether you are happy with your life afterwards.

[kuqezi]

Interesting to read that most single guys think married guys are pussies while married guys think the opposite.
The only valid posts here (in my opinion of course) are the ones that state that: If you're a pussy, you're always a pussy, married or not! End of question!

[Supreme4ever]

I was a D1 college football player with the prospect of going to the NFL. I have obtained cheerleaders, homecoming Queens, a couple of beauty pageants, a couple of entertainment personalities, and blah blah blah numbers I lost count a long time ago. I got married at 28 because I became religious and thought it would cure all my wrong doings in the past. Nope it's only repressed my attitude and within the 6 years of marriage I prayed for a divorce. My then hot wife who people was perfect gained 40lbs and besides that I believed loved me wholeheartedly just didn't surprise me like in the early stages and was focused on the lifestyle. Anyhow guys getting married before they have fully experienced life is a joke. I have a few ex wives friends tell me stories of how they took there ex to the cleaners. Women are nice commodities but never underestimate the value of depreciation and the depression they get when they realize that. Beta guys are a dime a dozen and will still bend a knee to settle for less but like my buddies say she may be married to him but the money and pussy is yours as long as your not a beta square.

[ChefAllDay]

(06-21-2018 01:15 PM)Supreme4ever Wrote:  

Women are nice commodities but never underestimate the value of depreciation...

[Kid Twist]

(06-21-2018 01:15 PM)Supreme4ever Wrote:  

I got married at 28 because I became religious and thought it would cure all my wrong doings in the past. Nope it's only repressed my attitude and within the 6 years of marriage I prayed for a divorce.

Interesting heart-felt post but seems you had some sort of belief in magic as a "religion." Was your girl "religious"?; and by that, I don't mean believed in astrology. Do you look back and wonder why you thought that way? Just curious

[RatInTheWoods]

Don't get married!

Find someone you hate and buy them a house *. It's quicker and cheaper!



* and give them half your pay for the next 20 years

[Alpone]

Never been married but one doesn't need to jump off a cliff to know cliffs are dangerous.

I've seen a lot of friends get married and usually for the wrong reasons. 75% of the time it was a war of attrition, with the guy holding out for a few years until he finally caved in and let the girl have her Big Wedding.

Afterwards, like clockwork, the guy gains weight, gives up hobbies he used to be passionate about, and spends less time building solid friendships/business contacts and doing personal development. It's like a fire going out. These are couples without kids btw lol.

Then, I see the woman's behavior change for the worse. If the guy is already locked down, why bother trying? Then comes the weight gain.

Part of the problem is that womyn have no skin in the game in modern western marriage. Nothing to lose if it goes bad. A womyn claiming she's a "divorcee" isn't a shameful thing anymore. If she cheats, she can still clean the guy out in a divorce. She can still get custody of kids. The man has a lot to lose if a marriage goes bad - his kids, pension, savings, his business, etc - especially now with #metoo hysteria, so marriage throws off the power dynamic in a relationship and cucks a man in a very bad way.

There are exceptions to this scenario, but they usually involve a man of considerable wealth/power marrying a younger woman from a good family. From my own observations, marriage is mostly downside for the guy and all upside for the woman.

Anecdotally, my uncle who was woke af dated a woman for 10 years who adored him. She kept asking for marriage. He kept saying no. She always questioned his commitment to her, but it kept her on her toes and well behaved. She was always trying to prove herself to him.

If he would have married her, her behavior would have changed for the worse and the relationship would have suffered. She would have lost respect for him.

Modern marriage is a massive shit test.

[Supreme4ever]

Kid Twist.... I got into religion because I I have lifestyle that people catered to me.(Great Stories) I did not know what wrong was and needed a way to screen groupies and the people that had my best interest. A college teammate suggested I try religion and coming from a southern background parents and my buddies wives love the idea of me becoming more beta. So I did and was content until I saw inside the church was worse than any nightclub for dating and lies. Most of my buddies are divorced. Me being a groomsman banging ex-wives of the weddings I attended put a sour taste in my mouth. Marriage is good when you're ready and your mate can upgrade you in the areas where you are weak.

[JayGould]

(01-25-2016 12:44 PM)not_dead_yet Wrote:  

(01-25-2016 12:21 PM)Moma Wrote:  

Are prenups truly that iron clad?

Why take the chance? If she wants to get married and you must acquiesce, do a religious ceremony, do not get a marriage license (and avoid community property states), and (if you must) put a cohabitation agreement in place.

Seems too easy for a biased judge to eff you and throw out your prenup.

I'm sure they could argue in court that since you actually had a religious service, that you are in fact "married". So I'd probably skip on the priest as well.

Also, I don't think you should ever marry out of love or anything silly like that. You also shouldn't marry someone who is hotter than you objectively. Marry a 7 who is a good mother with good values, then have your side pieces every once in a while. Have your wife suspect you of cheating but never admit to actually doing such a thing. That seems to be the working formula if you wanna stay in charge of the household.

More, you can even write a contract before you get married with your wife's duties on it. It could say things like "Wife is not allowed to deny husband sex, except with a written note from a Doctor". If she doesn't fulfill her duties, you won't fulfill yours (like, staying loyal). Obviously, you don't wanna put any obligations on yourself on the contract. Only upon the wife.

[JayGould]

(01-25-2016 11:02 AM)Khan Wrote:  

What does this mean for men? Just like during caveman times, the majority of men in today's world are sexually unattractive to women. By and large, women crave for alphas - we all know that. However, the majority of alphas won't even think of settling down and marrying, so your modern woman has to bargain and settle for a provider beta once she hits the wall and starts approaching 30.

And why would a so called alpha never think about settling down or getting married? Would you consider Trump an alpha male? He's married. I don't really know of any old alpha guys who aren't married with kids.

[JayGould]

(06-20-2018 10:24 PM)FullThrottleTX Wrote:  

I'm happily divorced (going on 8 years now),
I don't think marriage inherently makes men pussies. Marriage makes a lot of sense in your late 40s or 50s if you can get some young thing to bare you're children - and are in a frame of not wanting to date anymore. Marriage in that case is a strategy for family survival. Most guys eventually have a paternal instinct of some kind. Marriage provides a good framework for handling kids.

I feel like that now, and I am in my late 20's. I don't know how many women I've slept with at this point, except that it's over 200. One night stands are really boring and unfulfilling to me at this point in my life. It has even gotten to the point where if I'm travelling, I'll skip sampling the local women and go look at museums instead.

So, I don't necessarily agree on the age. The only women I date or fuck now are potential future mothers of my children.

[FullThrottleTX]

(06-22-2018 04:47 PM)JayGould Wrote:  

I feel like that now, and I am in my late 20's. I don't know how many women I've slept with at this point, except that it's over 200. One night stands are really boring and unfulfilling to me at this point in my life. It has even gotten to the point where if I'm travelling, I'll skip sampling the local women and go look at museums instead.

So, I don't necessarily agree on the age. The only women I date or fuck now are potential future mothers of my children.

I hear you. But I'd still delay. Most men aren't of the right mindset/maturity/resources to be fathers until their 40s anyway. It's not just about personal fulfilment. The kind of women you're meeting and can meet to as a late 20s guy are not going to be the same as when you're older, that's something to note.

Sex with random people isn't fulfilling to me either, I prefer having longer term girlfriends to one night stands. But that doesn't mean I want to be married and pop out babies. I've rarely seen a guy in his 20s married and with kids who isn't miserable.