[Off The Reservation]

Oh, and I forgot Oneitis

[SomeFcksGiven]

(01-17-2016 08:29 PM)offthereservation Wrote:  

Pedestal-ization (OP to the "9")

Exaggeration (Beta qualities of the other guy)

And perhaps she never stopped seeing the other guy.

From your other post:

(10-31-2015 11:14 AM)SomeFcksGiven Wrote:  

Believe me I didn't want to go there (bringing up her ex). Every time she'd hang out with me she was constantly bringing him up in the conversation. I'd usually just make a cheeky quip about it and change the subject.

I've been at this long enough to know that it's not a good idea to talk about ex's, yours or hers. After the 100th time she brought him up I decided to play along and qualify her. It wasn't the best idea, but I was tired of hearing her constantly talk about him.

Different girl, similar situation. The post you quoted was from 3 months ago. Somehow I've been on a "rebound sex" streak recently

[TooFineAPoint]

OP -- young girls get emotionally connected to their boyfriends and share experiences with them (and run mental movies of sharing future experiences with them) which creates a stronger bond. Even if they cheat on them, even if they break up and start dating new dudes, when they are young and not yet bitter, this connection can be very strong.

If you want to overcome this you are going to need to put in your time with her as a partner and a lover in every sense of the word (not just sex). Share some life experiences together.

[StrikeBack]

Did she get dumped by this so-called beta ex-bf?

[SomeFcksGiven]

According to her, she broke up with him. Can't say if that's true since she's not an objective source

[Beyond Borders]

My guess is the guy is an introvert (hence the contrast between him getting flustered in the bar and this woman's opinion of him).

Being introverted is not the same as not having game.

In fact, it can be extremely powerful and even addictive in its own right. Depending on the complexity of his personality, once he manages to draw a woman into his world how she looks on paper plays little role in how she'll respond to that connection. It may not be evident on the surface, but if I'm right, it's simply not something she can get from most guys she dates.

Judging by your description, she gave the guy chance thinking he was in over his head and that he was a safe bet, but in the end the tables were turned. It's not uncommon for the most independent introverts to do that without even meaning to.

An introvert may seem meek and dull on the service, but the more he draws a woman into his world, the more layers are revealed. And the closer she moves in, the more alone time he needs, making him start pulling away until he has almost all the power in the relationship and she's endlessly caught up in what he's doing, what he's thinking, and why he doesn't act like other guys (especially considering his seemingly lower value to her).

Extroverts yank more numbers and bed new women with ease. Introverts may not land as many, but the make them fall hard so hard they don't know what hit them.

You might think I've gone on a tangent, but the power of this dynamic cannot be stressed enough.

[Genghis Khan]

BB can you elaborate on the introvert thing? Would love to hear more about that.

[SomeFcksGiven]

That's an intriguing thought, BB. This possibility hasn't occurred to me. I can see how this situation would play out with the type of "quiet, mysterious" archetype you've described. From what I know of this guy, I'd be surprised if he fit this description. I'm not ruling it out though, given how my paradigm has recently been turned completely on its head.

[Beyond Borders]

(01-18-2016 04:58 AM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

BB can you elaborate on the introvert thing? Would love to hear more about that.

Okay, you asked for it. haha

I think I edited my above post more after you wrote that, so revisit it first.

To start, a little background on what I've come to know about introversion.

Most anyone who has met me would never guess, but I'm actually a naturally introverted person. You'll see comments from other guys on how good my social skills are - and even one member who said I'm the most charismatic guy he's ever met - but believe it or not, this is less of an oxymoron than you might think.

I'll rarely straight up hit on women in front of other guys while sober (though I'm a pretty good flirt), yet always seem to have some beautiful broad hooked on my nuts. I can go out and approach women pretty directly, but I don't enjoy doing it with an audience, and I get laid enough I don't have much desire to put on a show. Usually, I just wait to see who crosses my path and turn on the charm as needed.

It's ironic, but many people who are seemingly extroverted people are actually hiding behind a facade because they have been overcompensating their entire lives for starting out socially awkward, shy, and senstive. This is me to a 't', and I've gotten good enough at it that it's really a huge part of my personality now, so good luck telling the difference.

For instance, I'll be the life of the party and then I'll disappear and won't answer anyone's shit for a while. People may think I'm purposely being aloof, but I'm actually drained by interaction. Even when I do go out, I am far more satisfied lone wolfing it. I can spend days upon days, hell, even weeks, alone in my room reading and writing. The idea of spending a month hiking in the woods alone, sailing across the ocean, or just driving off on some random road for hours are all immensely appealing. Probably one of the reasons I thrive all alone abroad.

But this mix of extroversion and introversion is the most intoxicating combination, in my opinion, because I display extroverted tendencies outwardly, so I am able to pull women rather quickly, but then turn into the introvert after I get used to her. It's all a very confusing bait and switch that leaves her wondering what is wrong with her.

One of the main differentatiors about introverts is we are caught up in our own heads and we need time away from others, moreso than most, to recharge. That's one reason I like hanging out with guys who don't speak English - they can carry on while I get lost in my thoughts. Us introverts get burnt out on time with other people faster - and this is because we are actually shown by scientific studies to experience pain, lound noises, chaotic environments, and emotions on a more intense level. So believe it or not, we actually percieve the world differently.

We internalize thoughts instead of externalizing (except maybe through writing online). We tend to end up clinging to very solitary talents (I'm a freelance writer and author) and often become alcoholics because it lowers inhibitions and makes our extroverted mask easier to wear (story of my life, though I've managed to solidify my outgoing nature even sober, which is great). We also tend to abhor small talk and shallow social interactions (sometimes even empty, casual sex)

A good book on the topic is "Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking." This author does a much better job at explaining how someone can manifest both extremely introverted and extroverted tendencies at once. She also delves into why extroversion is often overhyped in our society, which is the reason people go to such lengths to mask it.

She does not, however, cover game, so now that I've laid the foundation, let's get back to the subject at hand...

Introversion creates a very interesting dynamic in relationships (specifically mini-relationships and LTRs).

An introvert is a sleeping giant. On the surface, he may not seem to have the social skills to measure up (unless he's like me), but he connects deeper and tends be more complex underneath. He values more in-depth relationships and once she's in his world he really comes alive.

He doesn't let everyone in (unless he rarely gets laid and is desparate), but once she is in, the connection can be intense, and while she may be able to push him around a bit in the beginning, once she's fully invested, the world around them is truly and fully his.

On the other hand, even though the connection starts out deep and intense, it generally only goes so far - there will always be a wall of sorts. An introvert always needs their own time and space, and this can be maddening to women who don't understand it (especially if she herself is extroverted).

In my case, I start out extroverted and I'm even happy with a new girl being around all the time, but the longer we're together the more I need to stake off my space and get my own time. If I don't, I'll go crazy. And even when we're together I'll often be buried in a book most of the day or involved in some other solitary hobby.

Simply put, I don't need the validation from a woman (admittadly, I may actually need it more before I know her) because I'm so involved in my own world. If she doesn't understand what's going on, she'll really start to freak out. The woman clings harder, pushing me further away. My growing distance increases her attraction and need for me, and the fact that she's already so impressed by the different layers of my personality (it seems women are usually learning new things about me even years later because so much is kept below the surface) just makes her want to drink in more.

And then we get caught in this endless loop where her attraction to me keeps growing and her constant antics to break me out of my shell and get to know me more keep repelling me until I finally say fuck it and split. Leaving her with her heart in her hand. "I am Jack's endless disappointment."

I've done a lot of generalizing here, but from what I've observed, experienced, and read, these dynamics are quite substantial. I've noted before that I know girlfriends from as far back as high school and even fuck buddies from 15 years ago who still stay in touch and make it clear they still have feelings for me. I could make a visit home and get a blowjob from some of these girls now (and did multiple times last I was home a few years ago).

Here are some other things I've written on the topic in other threads. I think I've covered this topic more extensively but can't seem to find it.

This first one I made before I really had time to think all this through, but you can see I already suspected some of it.

Quote:

Most of my friends and family would probably call me extroverted, but like you I consider myself an introvert. I need my alone time or I'll go crazy. Lately I spend almost all my time alone but I think it's a phase. Even in my most social phases, people get on my nerves after a while.

It's always been a challenge for long-term girlfriends to wrap their head around the fact that sometimes you just want to chill in your house and read a book and it has nothing to do with them. Keeps them guessing though. lol

Quote:

Extroverts can have the upper hand in game a lot of the time because the shallow social interaction women are so accustomed to pleases them, whereas introverts get annoyed and burnt out on that kind of thing. But one thing I've noticed over the years is that being somewhat introverted actually strengthens my game in its own way too. This mostly comes into play when I'm in a steady sexual or romantic relationship.

I'm more independent than a pure extrovert would be, and women can sense it. Often, the time I need alone really drives them nuts and has them always chasing me - and it's not something I have to artificially construct. I don't pull near the amount of ass as some guys on this forum (SIDE NOTE 1/18: That may have been a bit modest to say that but alcohol has long been a crutch too), but any woman who spends a considerable amount of time with me in that capacity gets seriously hooked. I largely credit it to the introverted aspects of my nature.

And I think the fact that I seem really social when people meet me probably furthers this, as it kind of comes out of left field.

If a guy is extremely extroverted, on the other hand, he'll sometimes come across as too eager to hang out with his chick all the time, even if it's not about her. Don't get me wrong, guys with game can still manage all that face time and come out ahead - or spread it across multiple females - but it is an issue that leads to some unintentional sloppiness sometimes.

Quote:

Many "shy" people are just introverts. And contrary to popular belief, many of our greatest leaders have been and are introverts. Extroversion is just glorified in our society.

In a similar vein, many people are shy around new people but dominate one on one and small group interactions. In my experience, these types can be extremely "alpha" even if they don't fit the PUA imagination. They can even gain a great deal of power in the larger society if they learn to not feel insecure about their nature and play to their strengths.

They just live under a different set of rules and dynamics.

And here's an interesting blog post linked to me by another member:

Quote:

Are Introverts Too Beta?
October 3, 2012 by Athol Kay 36 Comments
http://marriedmansexlife.com/2012/10/are...-too-beta/

Cautiously Pessimistic: A question occurs to me. Is being an introvert inherently beta? I ask, because I’m on the extreme end of the intro/extroversion scale, and what energizes me generally involves being alone to do my own thing (reading, researching, playing, etc). Being around other people just drains me, unless powerful pharmaceuticals are involved.

Athol: The short answer is “Yes to some extent.”

I think extroverts get a great advantage in making early ground in becoming socially dominant. While the introverts all sit on the edges of the group and gaze into space thinking deep thoughts, the extroverts take over and make things happen. On balance I think people in leadership positions are going to be more extroverted than introverted. That leadership is Alpha and will have a pull on women’s attention.

However, once in individual relationships, introverts can prove to be amazingly stubborn individuals who insist on getting what they want from the relationship. For an introvert, relationships are valued for their usefulness, so a crappy relationship is poorly tolerated. It’s no issue to a strong introvert to simply jettison a bad love relationship to be by themselves. Introverts have a natural dread game thing happening in the background all the time.

On the other hand…

Lots of extroverts are people pleasing weaklings who fold on their personal standards just to maintain their relationships. They spend so much time in the social universe that one day they awaken to find that being Mr. Party isn’t so great when the bills need to be paid and the party is over.

Likewise an introvert can narrow their entire connection with the outside world down to a single person in the most needy of oneitis.

There’s also the thing where introverts end up developing a skill in private so valuable, that the rest of the social group have to acknowledge it. There’s probably more introvert doctors than extrovert ones for example. Hence complains about bedside manners and treating patients as “the diabetic case in room 201″, which is exactly how a heavily introverted person would see a problem. 90% of all art and entertainment is created by introverts, maybe produced and distributed by extroverts, but the creative types inventing it are introverted. Pretty much any time you see someone with some crazy high skill level at anything, odds on it’s an introvert. The right skill gets you a ticket to Alphaville.

That all being said, neither extraversion or introversion are destiny. You can learn to cover your weaknesses and balance your strengths as you get older and wiser. For those playing the home game, I’m a Myers-Briggs INTP. I used to come out at the extreme end of the introversion, thinking and perceiving scales when I was younger. These days I’m mostly introvert, almost borderline on the thinking vs feeling scale, and have moved much closer to balance on the perceiving vs judging scale as well. (As an aside… I personally like the Enneagram better than Myers-Briggs. I’m a 5 with a 4 wing if anyone is into it.)

Because I’m going to hear some sort of shocked comment that there’s no way I could be an introvert with splashing my sex life on the Internet… most of my day I’m alone, writing happens alone, part of what energizes my marriage is that both Jennifer and I are introverts and having each other as a primary and deep relationship works for the both of us. I relax playing computer games or reading, and not by going to a party. Yes I’ve dealt with several thousand pieces of reader email, but I tend to focus on the diagnosis / advice / follow up angle…. “the affair case in room 201″…. there’s very few who I end up being chatty with.

So it’s really a case of taking the good bits from your natural state and balancing it as best you can with the opposite. Which is how I ended up being an introvert who really likes people. If you’re an introvert, it’s simply not enough to have a skill. You have to get good with people too. At the end of the day, people are the only things that really matter.

Oh and introverted women can get overwhelmed by extroverted men in relationships, so consider the audience you’re seeking out. Introversion may be less of a bug and more of a feature. Also introverted women tend not to be infected with multiple strains of herpes. Just sayin’.

I almost cut off the second half but the last part was too funny (and true).

Anyhow, whether any of this applies to the man mentioned in the OP is anyone's guess, but I'd say it's a strong possibility.

On the other hand, attraction is a complicated thing and there are all types of reasons why she might prefer the guy. Try not to take it personal.

[Tengen]

Mate, you fucked her multiple times, now she's gone back to her "beta" so she doesn't feel like a slut. If anything, the "beta" is getting a raw deal - he has no idea how much strange dick she's allowed inside her. You've done your job, giving her the alpha fux while letting someone else be the beta bux. I see no reason to be dramatic here.

[Blueberry]

Beyond Borders, I've got to thank you for your insight on being introverted.
I've learned a lot with your message.

[Samseau]

(01-18-2016 06:41 AM)Tengen Wrote:  

Mate, you fucked her multiple times, now she's gone back to her "beta" so she doesn't feel like a slut. If anything, the "beta" is getting a raw deal - he has no idea how much strange dick she's allowed inside her. You've done your job, giving her the alpha fux while letting someone else be the beta bux. I see no reason to be dramatic here.

Yes exactly, I have no idea what OP is taking about. Why would you want this girl as a girlfriend/wife? Because she is hot? She's a huge slut!!! Why would you want to deal with such bullshit? She's only good for the pussy, which you already got.

Man I've fucked wives/girlfriends of other guys so many times, 80% of the time they never tell you about the other guy until you've been inside her. Why would you want that in your life

[262]

^^^
Maybe he wants his Beta ego stroked by her, as well as his Alpha dick?

[XXL]

(01-17-2016 08:00 PM)SomeFcksGiven Wrote:  

(01-17-2016 04:21 PM)XXL Wrote:  

OP, the real issue here is not that some beta got the girl, it's that you misunderstand what alpha means. Think about it.

Can you elaborate? I'm not sure what you mean. Unless you're referring to the need to develop a real connection to a girl and putting "game" aside. That I get.

I'm referring to the limited perspective on women of this community. It's pretty much the same old shit getting shared, you know, that you have game when you're stone cold-asshole-dark triad-macho-dickhead and when you deviate from that path and do something nice etc then you get called beta or sucker. Even when that nice thing you like to do brings you results you're still beta to others. It's just ridiculous.

For example, take a look at what you wrote: "Unless you're referring to the need to develop a real connection to a girl and putting "game" aside". This sentence implies that developing real connection and game are two different things, like two opposite sides of the same coin or like two things that cancel each others out. In reality developing real connection IS game. Those things are like synonyms. How come? Well... when an attractive women in demand feels so comfortable with you that she develops real connection and feelings for you, when she flakes on better looking guys to meet up with you, when takes your point of view more seriously than her friends, than THAT'S GAME. That's when hijacked her heart which is exactly the best way to get her and outgame your competition.

[Ingocnito]

In this situation, and others I've known... as you describe the guy, his "niceness" will play a huge part. They had a connection he worked on with her probably for years. While the animal level of snap-attraction may not be as prominent in him, in the end, he didn't neg her, didn't push-pull as much.

Likely you both created the comfort needed to fuck her, yet his brand of "comfort" wasn't one laden with tension. Patrice O'Neal said something once about the greatest asset a man gives a women is his time, and attention.

The level of attention, and the manner in which this guy delivers it makes her feel "safe," not as in "protector" from harm safe, but safe within her own realm.

Bitches are scared shitless of life without that safety net. And they want that safety net to be padded in feathers and silk. Sins of the mind and flesh will wane in the wake of a safety net that never allows her to fall so hard, when she hits bottom it hurts.

Your competition represents painless comfort. You represent much, much more risk, potential pain, et al. Plus, I think some women just figure "oh well, I'll go get fucked to death by a stud, and after I get my fix like a drug, I'll go back to Mr. Safety Dance until another comes alone I can hedge against my beta lover to keep him 100% dancing around me like a begging dog, even more so than before... I will own him, and his soul forever after proving he's barely worthy of me... once again."

^^ That is the vicious cycle valued women play. Those women are best a playing the soul, and tend to hit deep with any guy involved with them. Their goal? The very premise of your post... which is CONSTANTLY keep them on your mind.

[Guitarman]

Does it really matter??? You banged her by being the Alpha now she wants to go back to her beta bux boyfriend. That does not mean that you won't still be banging her.

Just make sure she is not your only option to avoid "oneitus" and thoughts of " relationships" etc.

[heavy]

Is it more confounding than this...

Chic in love with guy. Daily blow jobs, swallows, have to curling orgasms from his touch.
time passes
Chic boyfriend with same guy. Comfortable with him. Less blow jobs, no more toe curlers.
time passes
Chic is bored with same guy. Obligatory infrequent sex, requires vibrator for lips to open.
time passes
Chic is disgusted by same guy. Moves on.

time passes

Chic booty calls same guy. Toe curling orgasms recommence.

Same guy. The entire time.

[SomeFcksGiven]

A lot of you are saying "you got the bang, she's going back to the beta, why do you care?" Like another poster mentioned in this thread, it's a player's conundrum. You meet and bang a girl, hang out doing cool shit together, and part of you starts to think an LTR may be in the cards. At the same time you also know that oneitis is a soul crusher.

Game is a lot of work. Getting numbers, dealing with flakes, all the BS you have to put up with to score a bang is exhausting. Sometimes the prospect of taking a break from "the game" and hanging out with one girl for a while is very appealing. It's a chance to catch your breath and hang it up for a while. Not permanently, but long enough to recharge and enjoy the illusion of a so-called "normal" life. Obviously this is fleeting and only lasts as long as your particular situation allows. Sooner or later you're going to get bored with her, get tired of her shit, and start craving new pussy again.

Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

[AneroidOcean]

(01-17-2016 09:16 PM)SomeFcksGiven Wrote:  

(01-17-2016 08:29 PM)offthereservation Wrote:  

Pedestal-ization (OP to the "9")

Exaggeration (Beta qualities of the other guy)

And perhaps she never stopped seeing the other guy.

From your other post:

(10-31-2015 11:14 AM)SomeFcksGiven Wrote:  

Believe me I didn't want to go there (bringing up her ex). Every time she'd hang out with me she was constantly bringing him up in the conversation. I'd usually just make a cheeky quip about it and change the subject.

I've been at this long enough to know that it's not a good idea to talk about ex's, yours or hers. After the 100th time she brought him up I decided to play along and qualify her. It wasn't the best idea, but I was tired of hearing her constantly talk about him.

Different girl, similar situation. The post you quoted was from 3 months ago. Somehow I've been on a "rebound sex" streak recently

Bud, I lean more on the relationship than non-relationship side of things (seemingly against the general grain of the forum), but even I would not in any way tolerate a girl bringing up an ex anywhere CLOSE to that many times even if I'm just fucking her.

I believe that the same reason you let this other girl talk that much without walking is the same reason the girl in your original post was willing to walk right back in with her "beta" ex-boyfriend.

That's a GAPING hole in your frame. You should analyze why you'd at all tolerate being around a girl who brings an ex up that often, much less consider a relationship with her.

[B-Nut]

How do we know the guy is not a facially aesthetic alpha ?

many beta personalities with great looks score hot women.

Also the majority of slayers who don't study pick up are nervous to cold approach. very common.

This guy just sounds like a social circle slayer. He's not getting this 9 to stay with him based on comfort and connection alone. Although that may be something she sees in him over you for boyfriend material.

This so called beta is probably a boss at holding frame and has options to walk away. I mean what "9" chick can't stop thinking about a guy who "she dumped" ? so called beta probably hasn't even texted this girl once and her head is spinning

[swiss rabbit]

How long she she with her ex?

It takes time for a person to get over their ex. Men and women alike - esp. if the relationship was "serious". [/align]

[SomeFcksGiven]

(01-20-2016 04:26 AM)B-Nut Wrote:  

How do we know the guy is not a facially aesthetic alpha ?

many beta personalities with great looks score hot women.

Also the majority of slayers who don't study pick up are nervous to cold approach. very common.

This guy just sounds like a social circle slayer. He's not getting this 9 to stay with him based on comfort and connection alone. Although that may be something she sees in him over you for boyfriend material.

This so called beta is probably a boss at holding frame and has options to walk away. I mean what "9" chick can't stop thinking about a guy who "she dumped" ? so called beta probably hasn't even texted this girl once and her head is spinning

If I could post a pic of him (or her for that matter) I would, but this is a public forum. You'll have to take my word for it that he's nothing special at all. Average/10
I don't know the dynamic between them, whether he worships her or treats her the way you described. All I have to go on are my interactions with him. My impression is that he's the kind of socially awkward blue piller that commonly gets roasted on this forum. It's possible, but I'd be surprised, that he's a boss with her

(01-20-2016 05:48 AM)swiss rabbit Wrote:  

How long she she with her ex?

It takes time for a person to get over their ex. Men and women alike - esp. if the relationship was "serious". [/align]

This may be the meat of what's going on here. I know she said they were together for several years. I wanna say 6 or 7 years, but I can't remember for sure. If it was that long, then she's known him since she was in her early teens.

[SomeFcksGiven]

(01-19-2016 02:23 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

Bud, I lean more on the relationship than non-relationship side of things (seemingly against the general grain of the forum), but even I would not in any way tolerate a girl bringing up an ex anywhere CLOSE to that many times even if I'm just fucking her.

I believe that the same reason you let this other girl talk that much without walking is the same reason the girl in your original post was willing to walk right back in with her "beta" ex-boyfriend.

That's a GAPING hole in your frame. You should analyze why you'd at all tolerate being around a girl who brings an ex up that often, much less consider a relationship with her.

You're right. That's something I struggle with. It's a common problem with almost every attractive, relationship-oriented girl. They're almost always going to have an ex that they still have feelings for. When all the talk of their ex starts up, I treat it as a shit test. Usually I let her prattle on for a bit and then I change the subject. Or I might address some of what she's saying by reframing it as weakness on his part. i.e. "he probably acted that way because of his own insecurities. He knew deep down that you could do better than him."

What are some better ways to handle this situation?

[Ozy]

One thing I notice is very hot girls value guys who are real with them. They believe (rightly) that most guys will say anything to get into their pants, so they get jaded quickly, assuming all men are fakes and liars. Guys who smell like they aren't putting on an act, and aren't hideous, get forgiven for lots of stuff we would consider SMV hits.

You are gaming her, and she can probably tell. Women aren't stupid, especially about this kind of thing.

[Diop]

(01-18-2016 08:27 AM)Blueberry Wrote:  

Beyond Borders, I've got to thank you for your insight on being introverted.
I've learned a lot with your message.

Seconded. Beyond Borders - without being too hyperbolic, your last post about your experiences as an introvert is one of the best posts I've seen since I started lurking on the forum. Maybe even the best one.

As an "outgoing" introvert who has had some similar experiences as those you described, I now feel like I have a greater understanding as to why many things in my past played out the way they did. It's a real comfort to see it written out, as years of introspection on this still left me confused (and oftentimes frustrated).

What a great post!