[Running Turtles]

Hey,

Bit of a weird question on this forum, but I'd appreciate some input. I'm in an LTR since about a year. She's been dancing before and she wants to start taking dancing lessons with me. I have absolutely no interest, experience or knowledge of dancing whatsoever, but I'm generally happy to try something new. She then asked if I try it and don't like it, could she have another guy as her dancing partner?

My gut reaction is that I don't care. If I ever think she's cheating, I'll happily dump her and move on to the next one. But because of this attitude, I'm sometimes worried that I come across as too lenient. She lives with me and is heavily involved in my social circle, so I don't want to be in a position where it looks disrespectful to me.

How would you guys deal with this?

[GlobalMan]

You saying "no" or you don't like it doesn't kill her urge to do it, it just makes you feel better, while not changing her desires.

If she wants to dance then try it out with her, you may end up enjoying it. Be glad she's asking you to join and not just going and signing up without you, and that she's asking how you would feel about her dancing with others. That's a good sign. If you're not feeling it after giving it a try then quit. If she wants to continue without you then so be it. Dancing with a guy in a class is not a problem if you have strong frame. If she ends up cheating then she wasn't right for you anyway.

Trying to control other people's interests is a waste of energy.

When you encounter a situation like this its a good idea to ask yourself if what you're about to say/do/decide will have an actual impact on the other person's desires/mindset/choices or if it's just something that makes you feel better, to placate your fears, while changing nothing in actuality. More "control" is usually just an illusion to feel ok. You have to let that go.

Strong frame is when a girl is free to choose whatever she wishes and yet she still chooses to make the choices that would please you, due to the foundation you've laid (and need to continue to build on). Attempting to control the choice, to make it for her, is weak frame. And it's not effective in the long term anyway, as her conflicting desire never went away.

[LINUX]

I don't think it's fair for you to tell her that she can't dance with other men when you refuse to dance with her.

Dancing is when people feel most alive. It's also an expression of a feminine spirit - always dancing, always moving, always flowing.

I love dancing and dance any chance I get. You probably wouldn't fare well in a Latin culture.

Good luck with the outcome.

[GlobalMan]

delete

[Running Turtles]

Thanks for the replies. That's what I was thinking as well, but I couldn't have put it into those words, Global.

Quote:

I don't think it's fair for you to tell her that she can't dance with other men when you refuse to dance with her.

I absolutely agree, LINUX.

[WestIndianArchie]

This is a hard one. Not because it's dancing, because that's a life skill and like cooking or mechanics it will serve you well for all if your life.

Time apart, especially when your girl is having fun without you I get disposable time, is the acid that corrodes a relationship.

In an LTR, you always want to be her primary source of fun. You want to take her ideas and run with it, and make them your own. Almost ruin it for her by being so gung ho about it.

As an overall tactic, if you're in an LTR you need to be the one dragging her to stuff, it'll be fun.

On top of everything I've said, she needs to keep investing in you every day.

And the last part, it can't be a burden to you. She can't be that weight around your neck or made to feel that way.

Figuring out the balance between couple activities and personal ones is tough, especially when men need solitude.

WIA

[General Stalin]

(01-06-2016 07:02 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

In an LTR, you always want to be her primary source of fun. You want to take her ideas and run with it, and make them your own. Almost ruin it for her by being so gung ho about it.

As an overall tactic, if you're in an LTR you need to be the one dragging her to stuff, it'll be fun.

On top of everything I've said, she needs to keep investing in you every day.

And the last part, it can't be a burden to you. She can't be that weight around your neck or made to feel that way.

Figuring out the balance between couple activities and personal ones is tough, especially when men need solitude.

WIA

This is very interesting WIA, most specifically the first two statements and the one bolded in particular.

It's sort of a catch 22 to be the one making the "fun" in the relationship but also expecting her to be investing more in you than you are in her. If you are planning things, amplifying the energy and excitement in an activity or a getaway, then where is her investment? Letting you fuck her a lot? Cooking for you a lot? What is the trade off?

I can only speak for myself here, but my favorite relationships have been the ones where I can let the girl be the "fun" one and I'm just the stoic masculine figure that she wants to share these experiences with. I may plant a seed about something like "we should get away next weekend, maybe head up to the mountains" and she will run with it booking a cabin, reserving tour spots, planning the whole trip whatever. She wants to take me to meet her family, go to an ugly sweater party. She plans the Friendsgiving and Friendsmas get-togethers whatever and I just enjoy the event and she is happy that I'm there with her just being myself with that personality that she likes.

This doesn't mean I'm a fly on the wall, but I let her "have the fun" so to speak. After all, she is the emotional one. This isn't to say I never plan things, surprise her with shit, or have romantic date ideas etc. Just that letting her pull her weight and play out romantic fantasies with me is heavy investment on her part in and of itself.

I like my presence to be enjoyed by her, absolutely. That is key - you want your woman to want you around all the time. That being said, I think it is more powerful to just be a enjoyable guy to have around all the time that your girl wants to take everywhere and show to everyone rather than be enjoyable AND be the one investing most of the effort into making the relationship "fun."

[CleanSlate]

I wouldn't draw the line at dancing because it's too constrictive to do so.

You have your interests, and she has hers. As long as her interests are not deal breakers, let her do her thing.

Do you have any reason to think that she might be cheating on you, or is considering it? It appears from your post that she's always been into dancing and is trying to invite you into her life. I think that's a great thing, and even if I didn't like dancing, I would go along and try it out at least a few times. You might surprise yourself.

On the other hand, if she was never into dancing, with no mention of it whatsoever, and suddenly, out of the blue she's into it, then you might want to read between the lines. Did she meet a guy who is a dancer, and now she's interested in dancing all of a sudden? From reading your post, it appears that this is not the case. So.. go dance.

[AneroidOcean]

(01-06-2016 12:47 AM)Running Turtles Wrote:  

Hey,

Bit of a weird question on this forum, but I'd appreciate some input. I'm in an LTR since about a year. She's been dancing before and she wants to start taking dancing lessons with me. I have absolutely no interest, experience or knowledge of dancing whatsoever, but I'm generally happy to try something new. She then asked if I try it and don't like it, could she have another guy as her dancing partner?

My gut reaction is that I don't care. If I ever think she's cheating, I'll happily dump her and move on to the next one. But because of this attitude, I'm sometimes worried that I come across as too lenient. She lives with me and is heavily involved in my social circle, so I don't want to be in a position where it looks disrespectful to me.

How would you guys deal with this?

Gut reaction seems to be good on this, but I noticed that you stated what I put in bold above. Why not try it if you're generally happy to try something new?

As for having another guy as her dancing partner what does she mean? For competing? For going out dancing with? Seems like a strange question as most dancing involves multiple partners, not just one.

[El_gato]

What kind of dancing ? Salsa, kizomba , tango or ballroom dancing? May not matter but some scenes are pretty social and your girl dancing with another guy is no big deal. I go out to the salsa socials with my chica and the dancing with othera actually sparks up the bedroom time for us. Give it a try - you might enjoy it. One possible problem is that you will initally have two left feet and be limited in options - maybe not - there could be other girls there in the same position

[WestIndianArchie]

(01-06-2016 01:28 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

It's sort of a catch 22 to be the one making the "fun" in the relationship but also expecting her to be investing more in you than you are in her. If you are planning things, amplifying the energy and excitement in an activity or a getaway, then where is her investment? Letting you fuck her a lot? Cooking for you a lot? What is the trade off?

It's not necessarily a tangible thing, but what happens is that she automatically comes to you first, clears thing with you first, becomes dependent on you for fun (in a good way).

Even when she does her own thing, she wishes you were there.

... But the other thing about is, "What about me, WIA? When do I get some alone time?"

Let's say you thing was sitting in a deer blind for an entire weekend waiting to shoot you a Bambi. She could just want to be there, to be around you, and maybe you could minimize the bitching.....but you don't go out into the cold embrace of nature because you want quality time w/your broad.

Which brings us back to the conundrum.

You have a life
She has a life.
But if she has too much of a life, no matter how good your game is, no matter how many other chicks you have on the side, or have laid the groundwork with while still being faithful - she could really get into some shit that's beyond your grasp.

She's an able bodied thinking woman. Family oriented or not, maybe veganism suddenly takes hold of her, or she goes Born Again Christian after the death of a parent...

I guess this has been the theme of the past week or so, but there's no "lock".

No rest for the righteous man.

Appease her like a beta? Lose her.
Let her run free? Lose her.

Capture her mind? You have a new job
Alpha all the time? She won't always like it, and though you can replace her if she leaves, losing her is actually a loss.

Just something to think about.

(01-06-2016 01:28 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

I can only speak for myself here, but my favorite relationships have been the ones where I can let the girl be the "fun" one and I'm just the stoic masculine figure that she wants to share these experiences with.

You're not alone, who doesn't like having a low maintenance emotional life, and not involved in all of your chicks's shit.

That is the norm. The Marcus Aurelian ideal.
You oak tree, her squirrel.

Until she finds another place to get a nut.

You lose a chick by not engaging her on different levels.

(01-06-2016 01:28 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

I may plant a seed about something like "we should get away next weekend, maybe head up to the mountains" and she will run with it booking a cabin, reserving tour spots, planning the whole trip whatever. She wants to take me to meet her family, go to an ugly sweater party. She plans the Friendsgiving and Friendsmas get-togethers whatever and I just enjoy the event and she is happy that I'm there with her just being myself with that personality that she likes.

This doesn't mean I'm a fly on the wall, but I let her "have the fun" so to speak. After all, she is the emotional one. This isn't to say I never plan things, surprise her with shit, or have romantic date ideas etc. Just that letting her pull her weight and play out romantic fantasies with me is heavy investment on her part in and of itself.

I like my presence to be enjoyed by her, absolutely. That is key - you want your woman to want you around all the time. That being said, I think it is more powerful to just be a enjoyable guy to have around all the time that your girl wants to take everywhere and show to everyone rather than be enjoyable AND be the one investing most of the effort into making the relationship "fun."

Lemme reframe.

Does a girl desire a man with less of a social life than her, or greater?

Would she prefer the guy who's always dressing up and going to nightly events (not clubs), or the one that's usually at home.

There isn't a guy on earth who doesn't want what you want, or acts in the way you're prescribing. It's baseline. The other typical option is the guy just shows up with her when she has shit to do, or stays at home, or sticks with his friends.

I'm suggesting that you look at it not so much as activities, but really engaging her where she is really excited to be.

To me, the type of cooperative couple that is on Amazing Race.

Or imagine you're on the frontier. If she doesn't get you up in the morning to plow the field and plant the crops, the whole family won't eat. And you rely on her to cook up the bacon and make a life worth living.

I don't know if modern life really calls for couples to need and appreciate each other on that level.

But I'd say if you're in an LTR that you want to keep - that's what you should be looking towards.

What do I know, I can't keep a chick longer than 3 years.

WIA

[Dalaran1991]

Depends on the kind of dancing, but from my experience with latin dancing, if she wants to take up latin dancing (tango count), it's gonna get messy.

All the couples I know in dancing where the guy does not dance, the girl cheats. Guaranteed. Its the whole purpose of this thing anyway. You can't have your girlfriend grinding body against tons of single and potentially great dancers out there. The atmosphere, the movement, the tension all serve to raise that sexual tension.

Even couples who dance together experience drama. Some guys or girls in dance are drama queens and love teasing you or your partner.

It would be a huge mistake for you not to go with her. Learning how to dance is probably one of the best tools in game you could ever learn, and the girls tend to be very hot in dance. In case your girlfriend monkeybranches you, you would have your pipe laid up already.

[Baga]

(01-07-2016 07:11 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

It would be a huge mistake for you not to go with her. Learning how to dance is probably one of the best tools in game you could ever learn, and the girls tend to be very hot in dance. In case your girlfriend monkeybranches you, you would have your pipe laid up already.

Was about to write this myself.

Learn rhythm through a dance, and you will outdance most guys in any nightclub. I learnt salsa a couple years ago and overcame my shyness towards dancing in clubs etc.

Girls love guys who can lead or should I say know HOW to lead.

Do it for yourself, not for her.

[Running Turtles]

(01-06-2016 01:37 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

I wouldn't draw the line at dancing because it's too constrictive to do so.

You have your interests, and she has hers. As long as her interests are not deal breakers, let her do her thing.

Do you have any reason to think that she might be cheating on you, or is considering it? It appears from your post that she's always been into dancing and is trying to invite you into her life. I think that's a great thing, and even if I didn't like dancing, I would go along and try it out at least a few times. You might surprise yourself.

On the other hand, if she was never into dancing, with no mention of it whatsoever, and suddenly, out of the blue she's into it, then you might want to read between the lines. Did she meet a guy who is a dancer, and now she's interested in dancing all of a sudden? From reading your post, it appears that this is not the case. So.. go dance.

I have no reason to think she's cheating and it hasn't crossed my mind for a second. If I thought that, we wouldn't be having this conversation. I know she used to dance before and it's an interest of hers that's flared up. It's just something I never considered, but which I'm happy to try. Her concern was that if I didn't like it, would I have anything against her dancing with someone else?

Like I said in the OP, I don't actually mind and I have made it very clear in my relationship that I'm not jealous, but that I obviously do not tolerate being cheated on. It's something we've discussed and she's of the same opinion.

My question to the forum was whether this apathetic attitude towards jealousy is making me look excessively weak. She's mostly been in LTRs with Russian guys who would go flying at the mere mention of something like this and often remarks at how different my approach is. _I_ consider that a good thing, but I would appreciate yours and other members' viewpoints as well.

(01-06-2016 07:42 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

(01-06-2016 12:47 AM)Running Turtles Wrote:  

Hey,

Bit of a weird question on this forum, but I'd appreciate some input. I'm in an LTR since about a year. She's been dancing before and she wants to start taking dancing lessons with me. I have absolutely no interest, experience or knowledge of dancing whatsoever, but I'm generally happy to try something new. She then asked if I try it and don't like it, could she have another guy as her dancing partner?

My gut reaction is that I don't care. If I ever think she's cheating, I'll happily dump her and move on to the next one. But because of this attitude, I'm sometimes worried that I come across as too lenient. She lives with me and is heavily involved in my social circle, so I don't want to be in a position where it looks disrespectful to me.

How would you guys deal with this?

Gut reaction seems to be good on this, but I noticed that you stated what I put in bold above. Why not try it if you're generally happy to try something new?

As for having another guy as her dancing partner what does she mean? For competing? For going out dancing with? Seems like a strange question as most dancing involves multiple partners, not just one.

I am definitely going to try it and I had no idea how prevalent dancing seems to be on this forum, it's just not something I'm naturally drawn to or have been raised to appreciate.

The partner seems to be someone to go to dance classes with and she would appreciate that being me, but was curious if I would allow her to use someone else if I found out I really didn't like it. As you may have guessed, I have no idea how dance classes are organized and whether everyone comes as a pair or just dance with anyone around.

To everyone saying I should try it: I was definitely going to. I had no idea it was so popular on this forum and that makes me think there's a lot about it I'm missing.

Thanks to everyone who replied, it's nice to see this turning into a discussion and I hope this post clarified a few things.

[456]

(01-06-2016 11:21 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

You're not alone, who doesn't like having a low maintenance emotional life, and not involved in all of your chicks's shit.

That is the norm. The Marcus Aurelian ideal.
You oak tree, her squirrel.

Until she finds another place to get a nut.

You lose a chick by not engaging her on different levels.

This hits home for me as someone who's had a decent number of 1+ year relationships (two of which were not exclusive on my end).

Having the frame "on lock", ticking all the well-rounded LTR "perfect mixture of alpha with touch of beta" boxes, etc., there's a fundamental divergence of the low maintenance you've "earned" and the level of visible maintenance she will expect if she's not making her own scene in the world without you.

Like the tacit ultimatum.

That's the nadir at which I imagine many men pull the "re-finance" move of engagement or kids.

Luckily my "end things now" sense tingles before this nadir and I've been the ender of all but my first "more than a fling" relationship. Had I genuinely evolved a new wanderlust for fun, travel, activity with her, it'd keep my job easier.

I used to think "wow, an aimless stroll around the city was the height of romance for us in the beginning, now it has to be an Event to be romantic? Hell no!"

Then I realized how much I, early on, love taking a girl all around my private corners of the city, the experiences I love, the world through my lens. And how after a while, I can barely be arsed to take her for drinks and dancing at an easy local spot, because "what's the point, I'm just going to want to end up back here to fuck, why roll out in January?" And that's when it's on either one of us to spice things up or else who can blame her or I for seeking a new Thing.

The above is exaggerated, but the essence is there. "Relationship Equity" really ain't a thing!

[General Stalin]

(01-07-2016 08:20 PM)456 Wrote:  

(01-06-2016 11:21 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

You're not alone, who doesn't like having a low maintenance emotional life, and not involved in all of your chicks's shit.

That is the norm. The Marcus Aurelian ideal.
You oak tree, her squirrel.

Until she finds another place to get a nut.

You lose a chick by not engaging her on different levels.

This hits home for me as someone who's had a decent number of 1+ year relationships (two of which were not exclusive on my end).

Having the frame "on lock", ticking all the well-rounded LTR "perfect mixture of alpha with touch of beta" boxes, etc., there's a fundamental divergence of the low maintenance you've "earned" and the level of visible maintenance she will expect if she's not making her own scene in the world without you.

Like the tacit ultimatum.

That's the nadir at which I imagine many men pull the "re-finance" move of engagement or kids.

Luckily my "end things now" sense tingles before this nadir and I've been the ender of all but my first "more than a fling" relationship. Had I genuinely evolved a new wanderlust for fun, travel, activity with her, it'd keep my job easier.

I used to think "wow, an aimless stroll around the city was the height of romance for us in the beginning, now it has to be an Event to be romantic? Hell no!"

Then I realized how much I, early on, love taking a girl all around my private corners of the city, the experiences I love, the world through my lens. And how after a while, I can barely be arsed to take her for drinks and dancing at an easy local spot, because "what's the point, I'm just going to want to end up back here to fuck, why roll out in January?" And that's when it's on either one of us to spice things up or else who can blame her or I for seeking a new Thing.

The above is exaggerated, but the essence is there. "Relationship Equity" really ain't a thing!

Relationship equity lies the problem. A lot of guys, myself included, find after a certain amount of LTRs, or even STRs, the ROI looks bleak. Almost nihilistic. How many of us have a sour taste in our mouth thinking about all the great experiences that were wasted on a broad that ended up being a time sink in the end and now they are out of your life?

That is a selfish and pessimistic way to look at it, but its hard not to. The more experienced and wiser player would simply look on it for what it was and appreciate as a good time well spent with a pretty thing while it lasted. All good things do come to an end after all so one should come to expect it.

But as you touched upon and as I explained above, it makes it easy to become jaded. We are the first generation where rinsing and repeating with relationships is completely the norm. Nothing is ever considered set in stone so why make a big deal of it? We don't. Part of it is guarding your heart, and part of it is just plain apathy.

[456]

^^ Right -- and I am confident enough to "put my heart on the line" and enjoy the Love of a Woman, which is one of life's true pleasures. I learn more and grow with each "repeat" and I try not to become jaded -- just a better filterer of people.

Perhaps foolishly, I feel that these experiences will make me a better husband and father someday, if that's the path I choose while, conversely, too many repeats can wear out a woman's soul. It's important to realize where you stand with a woman -- make sure she loves YOU, not the Role you fulfill.

[BetaNoMore]

Great discussion guys. I do think you're bound for trouble if your girl has inclinations to do things (without you) that involve heavily socializing with members of the opposite sex even if it's group activities and especially if alcohol is involved. With past failed relationships, it's definitely a difficult balance to find a girl that's dependent enough that she won't put herself in situations that could lead to cheating, but enough of her own person so you can get your own time. All humans are fallible. She can truly believe in her mind that she doesn't want to cheat but proximity, excitement and feeeeeelings will sway the female mind or the male mind for that matter.

[General Stalin]

(01-07-2016 08:50 PM)456 Wrote:  

Perhaps foolishly, I feel that these experiences will make me a better husband and father someday, if that's the path I choose while, conversely, too many repeats can wear out a woman's soul. It's important to realize where you stand with a woman -- make sure she loves YOU, not the Role you fulfill.

It's been brought up a few times here on the forum from veteran members that women actually tend to fall more in love with the role you fill versus you as an individual. The idea goes back to primitive eras where women would latch onto whoever can protect them and provide for their offspring.

Hopefully I'm not looking through a tunnel here, but it is my personal understanding that women are more easily captivated by a new man entering her life. This can be paralleled by the observation that men cheat but women have affairs. I could be veering off into a tangent here though so apologies if I digress.

(01-07-2016 09:02 PM)BetaNoMore Wrote:  

Great discussion guys. I do think you're bound for trouble if your girl has inclinations to do things (without you) that involve heavily socializing with members of the opposite sex even if it's group activities and especially if alcohol is involved. With past failed relationships, it's definitely a difficult balance to find a girl that's dependent enough that she won't put herself in situations that could lead to cheating, but enough of her own person so you can get your own time. All humans are fallible. She can truly believe in her mind that she doesn't want to cheat but proximity, excitement and feeeeeelings will sway the female mind or the male mind for that matter.

My past experience with relationships has taught me to avoid independent women with very active social lives in respect to being a good long-term partner. One of my biggest red flags is when a girl has a busy social life, and most specifically one where she does not invite you to be a part of it. That's pure PnD territory.

Roosh actually wrote recently that one of his biggest red flags is a woman who lives on her own, and I agree. Once a girl has made the transition to be independent and build an adult life absent of a man, then her ability to bond properly and be reliable and faithful is at jeopardy.

[btz]

it's a toss up honestly, I go to salsa dance class and its mostly 25+ women and 50+ men with the women far outweighing the men. Most of the guys have 0 SMV but there are a couple of younger guys there who are swimming in milfs, myself included.

I've got to warn you though dancing sure does something strange for women, I've seen cute 30 year old women blatantly flirting with their dance partners who were 15-20 years older. If she goes into heat, gets in a fight with you thinking its over, and spends the next 2 hours dancing with a guy who can dance, you're done.

[Mufasa]

Being a good dancer is an underrated pick up technique. Women love dancing and in all my experiences being able to break it down can really swoon a girl over. You're obviously prepared to lake the "L" with this girl so why not kill 2 birds with one stone. Some quality pair bonding + an opportunity for you to add another element to your game.

[Wayout]

OP...Let the other guys entertain your girl, meeting her dancing needs ...etc. You can do your own thing while she is out. I've been in the scene for many years and believe me this works to your advantage. Let the other guy do your choir so to speak! Women come to dance to feel alive and sexy but they will come back to you for the actual sex.
Dancing also alleviates the female curiosity for the opposite sex....kind of like having a hint of sex without the actual sex. This little taste of physical contact with other men will keep her from cheating. Some guys think that if they dance with a girl they are getting somewhere with her - cannot be further from the truth! Women use men....and it's no different on a dance floor.

[King of Monkeys]

(11-07-2016 04:36 PM)Mufasa Wrote:  

Being a good dancer is an underrated pick up technique. Women love dancing and in all my experiences being able to break it down can really swoon a girl over. You're obviously prepared to lake the "L" with this girl so why not kill 2 birds with one stone. Some quality pair bonding + an opportunity for you to add another element to your game.

I've been considering doing dance lessons when I have more open time. I'm bartering between swing, hip hop, or salsa. What would you recommend?

[Rhyme or Reason]

@OP

Don't get jealous, don't get controlling. What you need a measured response to this. Let her take up dancing. Then shortly thereafter, you take up a new hobby of your own..

Preferably something with a social component, where meeting chicks is possible. It's not that you're out to meet said girls but that it's a strong possibility.

Dread game.

Present it to her the same way she presented this to you. Your vibe should be this:

You're looking to expand your horizons. You have a lot of passion and energy and it needs an outlet. An outlet that she is ill equipped to provide.

Granted this all must be stated under the radar. It's using her own communication type against her, so to speak.

I know lots of guys here try not to think of dating as a war (or poker game) but that's exactly how I see scenarios like this.

Right now, you are worried about the implications of her taking up something new. Why should it be that way? Two can play that game, and there's nothing to gain by sitting around ruminating about what she is implying by this...so as I said you need a measured response. Don't go nuclear, go tactical guerillla warfare.

Join a band. Start doing poetry at open mics. Do something to get yourself out there and you will be in a position of strength.

[Mufasa]

(11-07-2016 07:41 PM)King of Monkeys Wrote:  

(11-07-2016 04:36 PM)Mufasa Wrote:  

Being a good dancer is an underrated pick up technique. Women love dancing and in all my experiences being able to break it down can really swoon a girl over. You're obviously prepared to lake the "L" with this girl so why not kill 2 birds with one stone. Some quality pair bonding + an opportunity for you to add another element to your game.

I've been considering doing dance lessons when I have more open time. I'm bartering between swing, hip hop, or salsa. What would you recommend?

Thats the thing it doesn't even have to be formal lessons. Having natural rhythm and watching some movies and figure out how you touch a woman body within the context of the dance.
For instance: I'll twirl them then wrap they're hand around my waist and "reel them in" so were face to face. Another move ill twirl them put my hand on their stomach and reel them in close. Shit works like a charm.

As far as lessons go salsa is the most fun and is associated with passion.