[pitt]

My game is the type of game where i feel like i have to fuck on the first or second date. Soon as i get to know a girl, i invite her over my place and try to fuck her. My strategy always worked fine, however, i have noticed that this strategy doesnt function well with good girls or girls that just respect more themselves. I have lost few 9´s in the last months due to not being patient to wait to fuck them, if they dont want to come to my place, i just think to myself, "fuck it, i will get another chick to come anyway, but i aint taking her to cinema or anything like that" or soon as i meet them i make it kinda obvious that i just want to fuck them. Im not really happy with that behaviour anymore, specially when im dealing with new cultures and some cultures some girls can be a bit more reserved and dont want to fuck you soon as they meet you.

I have met some 9.5´s that were really into me, but soon as they noticed that all i wanted to do is fuck them, they stopped getting in touch. I completely understand them and i want to gain a new behavior for this new set of females. I usually can tell when i can fuck a girl on the first day or when she is the type of girl that i may have to wait a bit longer, so im keeping my old strategies for the for the first group and i want to adopt a new strategy for the second group.

But i need some strategies, to be patient and wait some time before i fuck these girls. I have already some strategies in mind, but i want to empower them by getting more ideas from here. Anybody to help me out breaking this "i fuck on the first date or im out" addiction?

Thanks.

[Samseau]

First, my advice to you is to stop making it obvious that you just want to bang them. Act as if you are indifferent to the act of sex and girls will feel a lot more comfortable with you. However, you should continue to try and bang them at the first chance you get.

And here's why.

I have always wondered if it was a good idea or not to fuck as soon as possible. I thought to myself, "Surely it would be better in the long run to wait for sex. Besides, I myself feel more comfortable to wait till at least the second date before having sex."


One of the very first dates I've managed to pull ended with us back at her place. I decided not to go for sex and wait until the next one. I thought she was enjoying herself and that on the next date the sex would be even better.

I never heard from her again. I thought, "Well, my game must not have been good enough to get her to like me. When my game improves I'll try the waiting strategy again."

The following year I've pushed for sex ASAP like most players will tell you to, and I've gotten a lot of success from it. My game improved considerably and girls enjoy my company out on dates.


So, just two weeks ago, I decided to try my waiting experiment again. It was the first date and things were going smooth. By the end of the night, when I was outside of her door with her, I didn't even need to kiss her. She wrapped her arms around my neck and made out with me. Clearly she had been enjoying her time with me. "I've gamed her good, Samseau. You could sneak into her place right now and go for a bang, or you could wait and I bet things will be better with her in the future. The sex will be hotter, the relationship might last longer." So after she kissed me, I wished her a goodnight and went out to dance.

Never heard from her again. If I didn't have a backup girl, I'd have some VERY blue balls right now.

Conversely, I've been seeing a girl who has been making it impossible for me to bang her after our dates:

- She refuses to go to a second venue because she's busy, but then schedules a second date with me during our time together on the first date.

- The second date occurs during the daytime when there's no time to have sex. She also agrees to a third date then, where I'll probably be able to bang her.

But notice the girl has been setting the pace of the relationship. If a girl likes you but wants to wait, she'll find a way to keep things dragging out. But if a girl lets you back to her place, or she goes into your place, and you don't take advantage, she interprets that as beta and loses interest.

So, in my experience, one should always fuck her when you get the chance.

Roosh has also written on this subject.

http://www.rooshv.com/fuck-speed

http://www.rooshv.com/theres-no-punishme...ng-for-sex

[Lumiere]

Those girls who stopped contacting you? Well they like fucking just as much as you do.

However, women have a very strong fear of being used.

Making it clear that you want to fuck is not the problem. Its the way that you are going about doing it.

[pitt]

Samseau i didnt want people to misunderstand me and you kinda misunderstood me.

My problem is not to sleep with girls, im not bragging, but i do extremely well with women, i really sleep around a lot. But im talking about a specific group here, ones that wont fuck you on the first date.

The problem is that these good girls, wont give you a second opportunity, soon as they notice that all you want to do is fuck them, they stop getting in touch with you, they wouldnt suggest you guys to be friends first and then yall can fuck after a certain period, its like you made a mistake and thats it, game over. Funny thing is, most of these girls that wont fuck you on the first date, you kinda can tell, it is as if they carry a special energy that tells you that they dont get down like that. Dont get me wrong, i had girls that looked like good girls but i still fucked them on the first date, but women that really respect themselves wont fuck you on the first date (specially when you are dealing with certain cultures)

I am currently in Angola and the guys here keep on telling me that the girls from good families here wont fuck you on the first date, they keep on telling me to be more patient, invite them out and shit like that. Im not really here for the women but i have been meeting some bad bitches that im forcing myself to play like i just want to get to know them before i close the deal (most of girls here are pretty easy by the way, but girls from good families will just take a bit more of hard work in order to fuck them)

I wouldnt wait a long period to close the deal if i was in the UK or US, guys who have lived a period of time in places like Argentina may understand what i am trying to say (although this is far from being a place like Argetina, i repeat it, girls here are really easy, im just talking about a specific group).

[Gmac]

(06-28-2011 07:01 AM)pitt Wrote:  

Samseau i didnt want people to misunderstand me and you kinda misunderstood me.

My problem is not to sleep with girls, im not bragging, but i do extremely well with women, i really sleep around a lot. But im talking about a specific group here, ones that wont fuck you on the first date.

The problem is that these good girls, wont give you a second opportunity, soon as they notice that all you want to do is fuck them, they stop getting in touch with you, they wouldnt suggest you guys to be friends first and then yall can fuck after a certain period, its like you made a mistake and thats it, game over. Funny thing is, most of these girls that wont fuck you on the first date, you kinda can tell, it is as if they carry a special energy that tells you that they dont get down like that. Dont get me wrong, i had girls that looked like good girls but i still fucked them on the first date, but women that really respect themselves wont fuck you on the first date (specially when you are dealing with certain cultures)

I am currently in Angola and the guys here keep on telling me that the girls from good families here wont fuck you on the first date, they keep on telling me to be more patient, invite them out and shit like that. Im not really here for the women but i have been meeting some bad bitches that im forcing myself to play like i just want to get to know them before i close the deal (most of girls here are pretty easy by the way, but girls from good families will just take a bit more of hard work in order to fuck them)

I wouldnt wait a long period to close the deal if i was in the UK or US, guys who have lived a period of time in places like Argentina may understand what i am trying to say (although this is far from being a place like Argetina, i repeat it, girls here are really easy, im just talking about a specific group).

Did you even read his response to you?

[Nonpareil]

(06-28-2011 06:53 AM)Lumiere Wrote:  

Those girls who stopped contacting you? Well they like fucking just as much as you do.

However, women have a very strong fear of being used.

Making it clear that you want to fuck is not the problem. Its the way that you are going about doing it.

Basically the essence; women love to feel desired, but hate being thought of as sex toys. This is why when you sometimes escalate too fast on a first date, you won't get a second, she doesn't want you to think of her as a slut.

For top girls, I try to make the first date (over drinks) more about rapport and less about attraction; why? Because if an 8-9 is already out for drinks with you, she is already at least a little bit attracted to you. These girls have no shortage of guys who want to fuck them. Unless she's throwing out overt 'I haven't been fucked in a month and I'm super horny!' signals, touching and a makeout are all that I really go for generally.

BUT, I do keep an eye on the signals. If you're leading the way, she suggests you go to her/your place, she's into touching you, and she's instigating the sex talk or just flat eye-fucking you, then you have to take advantage. As Samseau said; pretty girls have options, so the average guy only gets a handful of chances at sex before she'll move on.

[pitt]

p.s. Gmac samseau edited his post

[sir_seducer]

when a girl thinks and even tell you that all you want is sex from her.....this means she is not interested/attracted to you (anymore) .....yes..this is reality.

THINK of a girl who still knew that u gonna fuck her and still wanted to hang out with u...that's called attraction.

the girls you lost are not because you wanted to fuck them and they got to know it....but because they were not as much attracted to you as you thought ..and they were 9s.

next time just try to make enough attraction before getting laid...so that you wont be disapointed.

[pitt]

sir seducer you have a very negative perspective towards the game, i doubt you score a high amount of girls every month, in contrast, to us advanced players there is no such thing as the girl is not interested in me. How many girls put the phone down on me before and after 2 days i was fucking them hardcore?

Non pareil great response but the subject here is more towards girls that were brought up with good moral values and not really about them being 8s or 9s, that probably wouldnt apply much to countries such as the UK or US.

[UrbanNerd]

Let me get this straight....you want ADVICE on stop thinking about you must get sex on the first date?

Yo no hablo Inglés.

[sir_seducer]

(06-28-2011 12:01 PM)pitt Wrote:  

sir seducer you have a very negative perspective towards the game, i doubt you score a high amount of girls every month, in contrast, to us advanced players there is no such thing as the girl is not interested in me. How many girls put the phone down on me before and after 2 days i was fucking them hardcore?

Non pareil great response but the subject here is more towards girls that were brought up with good moral values and not really about them being 8s or 9s, that probably wouldnt apply much to countries such as the UK or US.

all i wanted is to give u a suggestion...yes u were fucking girls after two days because u created attraction.

if u didn't create good attraction u wont get into her pants....''ALL He wants sex from me'' is not a logical factor for flake.

and....i doubt you are a player..anyway...No hard feelings.

[Oblivion77]

(06-28-2011 12:01 PM)pitt Wrote:  

sir seducer you have a very negative perspective towards the game, i doubt you score a high amount of girls every month, in contrast, to us advanced players there is no such thing as the girl is not interested in me. How many girls put the phone down on me before and after 2 days i was fucking them hardcore?

Non pareil great response but the subject here is more towards girls that were brought up with good moral values and not really about them being 8s or 9s, that probably wouldnt apply much to countries such as the UK or US.

I think that both of you and sir Seducer have a point.
On one hand I hear you when you say girls from certain culture or with higher self-esteem have a more conservative approach to sex. Being used to Italian girls, that are quite hard to get (when in Italy), I perfectly understand you.

On the other hand, sir Seducer raises a good point. Is it possible there wasnt that much interest on their behalf? If you provide us with more information about these girls that disappeared on you, we can single out why they vanished. You think it is because you tried to sleep with them right away. Very likely that's it.
Still, it is also possible some of these 9's werent that interested...and had so many other options that your attempt to bullrush them turned them off.

In conclusion, what did you try to do with these 9's? Did you push the issue to the point you burned the bridge completely, ending the date in an awkward way?

Figuring that out is essential to make sure your conclusions arent mislead by a lack of attraction.

[Tuthmosis]

@pitt: you clearly have problems being subtle about going for the bang right-off. This isn't a matter, I don't think, of good girls versus not-good girls. You can lean on a good girl early-on and still not scare her away--if you do it right. Without seeing you in action, it's impossible to tell you exactly what you're doing wrong, but there are ways to push for the bang without it seeming like all you want is the bang. Girls love to suspect that you're a lothario, but if you come across as the straight-up machine-like predator that we all are, they tend to clam up.

You need to look at your closing game and soften up the edges that are setting off the alarms.

That's my take.

[Basil Ransom]

(06-28-2011 12:52 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

@pitt: you clearly have problems being subtle about going for the bang right-off. This isn't a matter, I don't think, of good girls versus not-good girls. You can lean on a good girl early-on and still not scare her away--if you do it right. Without seeing you in action, it's impossible to tell you exactly what you're doing wrong, but there are ways to push for the bang without it seeming like all you want is the bang. Girls love to suspect that you're a lothario, but if you come across as the straight-up machine-like predator that we all are, they tend to clam up.

You need to look at your closing game and soften up the edges that are setting off the alarms.

That's my take.

I was going to make a post on this exact topic. Lately, I've had a string of dates that I thought went well, yet the second date never happened.

I'm pretty low-key, right up until the making out part. Once I've kissed a girl, my desire to talk disappears. And once we're heavily making out, I'm pretty aggressive. I get these girls into my bedroom eventually, and topless or a little more, then we part ways on good, even great, terms.

A couple days later, no response to my text. I met most of 'em online, and it seems like girls have a harder time swallowing the bang date when they're explicitly seeking someone to 'date.' They're very happy on the date, but a day or two later they come to their senses and think, "Ugh, I did all that with him and I never do! And I hardly know him!" (Of course, they're sluttier than they'd like to admit.)

I used to agree with Roosh that being aggressive never hurts you, but looking back, eg on some first date bangs that never saw a second date, there's something missing.

How do you go for the bang without seeming like a dog, two days later, when you contact her?

[Caligula]

(06-28-2011 12:52 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

Girls love to suspect that you're a lothario, but if you come across as the straight-up machine-like predator that we all are, they tend to clam up.

^^^ Haha love this.

We're dealing with two different issues. Basilransom is talking about buyer's remorse, I think Pitt's issue is that girls are deciding he's a player and not putting out for that reason. Both come down to comfort.

@Basilransom what you're talking about is buyer's remorse. It happens a lot when you fail to get a girl comfortable enough but just get her wet and whisk her to bed. Gmac and Tuthmosis have suggested going for the bang at her place and leaving something on her nightstand to have an excuse to see her again (http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-4144.html). A lot of buyer's remorse is her not wanting to face up to her own sluthood. So the easier you make it for her not to feel like a slut - eg. building lots of comfort, a connection - the more likely you are to avoid that trap.

I think the reason they flake in that situation Basil is that you've already established that you'll be pushing for the bang. Thus she expects that if she sees you, you'll be banging. That's hard on her self image as not being a slut. So when you hit her up make it seem really casual and lay off any aggressive vibes until you're with her and you're escalating again.

It's a similar dynamic to last minute resistance: give her an excuse to tell herself 'it just happened'. This is why the girls with lots of LMR are also the most likely to get buyer's remorse (data points limited, but it seems to work that way; what's your experience?).

As for @pitt's dilemma, I'd say these girls are classifying him as a player. Perhaps your player vibe is too strong? When I was new in the game I often went full asshole and made no attempt to hide the fact that I had lots of prospects. A lot of girls loved the vibe, but wouldn't put out because they decided I was too much of a 'player'. Multiply this effect by ten in smaller cities/circles.

This problem is going away as I get better at calibrating, focusing on building a connection and comfort instead of going too hard on attraction. Now that I have my shit together more I'm also way better at hinting without being too explicit. How to calibrate depends on the girl; reading her signals is the key.

[Neo]

Usually the issue comes down to a lack of trust. Some girls just take longer to bang than other and really I don't care if you have god like game some girls will just straight up not put out on the first or even the second date. With that said it doesn't mean that they're not attracted to you. But a combination of her upbringing, attitude, place in life, etc. etc. makes them stop themselves.

From what you describe, it seems as if you are showing your cards to soon. Show more vulnerability, talk about your family, dog, whatever you need to do to show her that she can trust you more. I'd also create more uncertainty in her mind on the first date and after and slightly scale back the aggressiveness. If she's attracted to you and thinking 'I'm not sure if this guy likes me.' it's a good sign.

Unfortunately it may just take time. So if you're not up to going out with these nice girls 3,4, or 5 times(that should be a limit) there may not be much that you can do.

[sir_seducer]

(06-28-2011 12:15 PM)Oblivion77 Wrote:  

(06-28-2011 12:01 PM)pitt Wrote:  

sir seducer you have a very negative perspective towards the game, i doubt you score a high amount of girls every month, in contrast, to us advanced players there is no such thing as the girl is not interested in me. How many girls put the phone down on me before and after 2 days i was fucking them hardcore?

Non pareil great response but the subject here is more towards girls that were brought up with good moral values and not really about them being 8s or 9s, that probably wouldnt apply much to countries such as the UK or US.

I think that both of you and sir Seducer have a point.
On one hand I hear you when you say girls from certain culture or with higher self-esteem have a more conservative approach to sex. Being used to Italian girls, that are quite hard to get (when in Italy), I perfectly understand you.

On the other hand, sir Seducer raises a good point. Is it possible there wasnt that much interest on their behalf? If you provide us with more information about these girls that disappeared on you, we can single out why they vanished. You think it is because you tried to sleep with them right away. Very likely that's it.
Still, it is also possible some of these 9's werent that interested...and had so many other options that your attempt to bullrush them turned them off.

In conclusion, what did you try to do with these 9's? Did you push the issue to the point you burned the bridge completely, ending the date in an awkward way?

Figuring that out is essential to make sure your conclusions arent mislead by a lack of attraction.

thanks obvlivion...

when a girl is attracted she does not get vanished (unless you fuck up)....she knows sex is going to happen...and she also wants it...so how can she be vanished by just thinking that you only want sex from her?.....this thinking comes later right after when you fuck her and dump her..

i had plenty of girls in the past who thought that i only wanted sex from her but still wanted to get in my bed.

[wolf]

(06-28-2011 06:38 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

First, my advice to you is to stop making it obvious that you just want to bang them. Act as if you are indifferent to the act of sex and girls will feel a lot more comfortable with you. However, you should continue to try and bang them at the first chance you get.

And here's why.

I have always wondered if it was a good idea or not to fuck as soon as possible. I thought to myself, "Surely it would be better in the long run to wait for sex. Besides, I myself feel more comfortable to wait till at least the second date before having sex."


One of the very first dates I've managed to pull ended with us back at her place. I decided not to go for sex and wait until the next one. I thought she was enjoying herself and that on the next date the sex would be even better.

I never heard from her again. I thought, "Well, my game must not have been good enough to get her to like me. When my game improves I'll try the waiting strategy again."

The following year I've pushed for sex ASAP like most players will tell you to, and I've gotten a lot of success from it. My game improved considerably and girls enjoy my company out on dates.


So, just two weeks ago, I decided to try my waiting experiment again. It was the first date and things were going smooth. By the end of the night, when I was outside of her door with her, I didn't even need to kiss her. She wrapped her arms around my neck and made out with me. Clearly she had been enjoying her time with me. "I've gamed her good, Samseau. You could sneak into her place right now and go for a bang, or you could wait and I bet things will be better with her in the future. The sex will be hotter, the relationship might last longer." So after she kissed me, I wished her a goodnight and went out to dance.

Never heard from her again. If I didn't have a backup girl, I'd have some VERY blue balls right now.

Conversely, I've been seeing a girl who has been making it impossible for me to bang her after our dates:

- She refuses to go to a second venue because she's busy, but then schedules a second date with me during our time together on the first date.

- The second date occurs during the daytime when there's no time to have sex. She also agrees to a third date then, where I'll probably be able to bang her.

But notice the girl has been setting the pace of the relationship. If a girl likes you but wants to wait, she'll find a way to keep things dragging out. But if a girl lets you back to her place, or she goes into your place, and you don't take advantage, she interprets that as beta and loses interest.

So, in my experience, one should always fuck her when you get the chance.

Roosh has also written on this subject.

http://www.rooshv.com/fuck-speed

http://www.rooshv.com/theres-no-punishme...ng-for-sex

Right on the money. Especially about the pace of the relationship.

[hypesession]

I think I understand. The issue is cultural difference and while you're not hitting the first date these girls are not flaking on you after either.
If this is the case you don't need to "stop this I fuck on the first date mentality" you just need to go really under the radar and not come across as a player at all. Keep your game rough around the edges and appeal to the emotions and act like it's happening through accident.

If you need to drag it out for a couple days, stay mysterious and generate a lot of attraction and have other girls in the hopper so you can start a rotation.

Persist and wear her down. Hope this helps you...

[theIVth]

You just need to start approaching more bad bitches. To be honest, sounds like your probably just one nighting a bunch of average looking chicks with ease. Your more than likely convienently forgetting that a lot of those average looking chicks stop dealing with you after the first time too....u just dont notice or care cause your not as into them.

Bottom line, just start approaching more top notch chicks. Really bad bitches dont operate like average looking chicks. They have more options.

To fuck one average looking chick you probably only need to approach 3. To fuck a bad bitch you probably need to approach 10.

There are different levels of the game.

[Moma]

This is a good addiction to have. I used to have the addiction of not 'fcuking on the first date' and in retro, that was a waste of time.

Lizards know what time it is. I told a lizard once, the time it takes for me to fcuk has no bearing on whether I am a good man or not..because if I'm all about the pussy and you make me wait, as soon as I hit it, I'm out.
Thus you will have prolonged something and maybe caught feelings over the duration, whereas if you let me hit it early, you will know where we stand since there will be no carrots left to dangle and true colours shall emerge...