[Ryre]

Online is the main way I am meeting women right now. My profile is good and my messaging game is all right, but I have problems with the actual date. I know there is a huge thread on okcupid, but that addresses all phases of online dating and I want to focus on the first date itself.

I've read Tuthmosis's recipe for first date bangs, the zero-date bang post, and the thread about whether the second date is dead. I'm prepared to get "use the search function" but I hope that if I spell out some questions someone will take pity and help.

I am typically meeting girls after work for a drink at a nice bar after work, like 7:00 on a week night. This results in a decent get-to-know-you conversation that goes no further. I haven't adapted to the new reality of escalating as far as you can on the first meetup; I'm still thinking, get to know each other tonight, then have a second date that starts or at least winds up back at my place.

Tuthmosis's recipe sounds great, but it presupposes that every first date is going to be a later-evening round of bar-hopping. You meet at 9 or 9:30, tell her "let's start here and bounce if it's lame," first round's on me, etc. Is that what you have to do, approach every first meeting with someone you've never met before off okcupid as if you are going to spend all evening drinking together?

And, while I would love to have girls over to my place for a first meet as advised in the BlurredSevens's zero-date bang thread, that seems designed for girls you maybe met in person or at least have been flirting with online for awhile. I can't picture having much luck messaging back and forth with a girl once or twice on okcupid and then inviting her over. Plus, I might not even be attracted to her when I see her in person, I don't want to have her over until I know that.

So what is the state of the art? Meet somewhere near your home at 9 or 9:30, say goodbye after one drink at most if she is not attractive, if she is attractive follow Tuth's advice about ramping up sexual tension without kissing and bouncing her back to your place? I may have answered my own question but I'd appreciate input. I will take no offense if this gets moved to the newbie forum. Thanks.

[OregonToSoCal]

(12-07-2015 04:38 PM)Ryre Wrote:  

Online is the main way I am meeting women right now. My profile is good and my messaging game is all right, but I have problems with the actual date. I know there is a huge thread on okcupid, but that addresses all phases of online dating and I want to focus on the first date itself.

I've read Tuthmosis's recipe for first date bangs, the zero-date bang post, and the thread about whether the second date is dead. I'm prepared to get "use the search function" but I hope that if I spell out some questions someone will take pity and help.

I am typically meeting girls after work for a drink at a nice bar after work, like 7:00 on a week night. This results in a decent get-to-know-you conversation that goes no further. I haven't adapted to the new reality of escalating as far as you can on the first meetup; I'm still thinking, get to know each other tonight, then have a second date that starts or at least winds up back at my place.

Tuthmosis's recipe sounds great, but it presupposes that every first date is going to be a later-evening round of bar-hopping. You meet at 9 or 9:30, tell her "let's start here and bounce if it's lame," first round's on me, etc. Is that what you have to do, approach every first meeting with someone you've never met before off okcupid as if you are going to spend all evening drinking together?

And, while I would love to have girls over to my place for a first meet as advised in the BlurredSevens's zero-date bang thread, that seems designed for girls you maybe met in person or at least have been flirting with online for awhile. I can't picture having much luck messaging back and forth with a girl once or twice on okcupid and then inviting her over. Plus, I might not even be attracted to her when I see her in person, I don't want to have her over until I know that.

So what is the state of the art? Meet somewhere near your home at 9 or 9:30, say goodbye after one drink at most if she is not attractive, if she is attractive follow Tuth's advice about ramping up sexual tension without kissing and bouncing her back to your place? I may have answered my own question but I'd appreciate input. I will take no offense if this gets moved to the newbie forum. Thanks.

The short answer to your question is "it depends." For every opinion on how to run a first date you read about there will be someone saying they do the exact opposite with better results.

I think the main factor as to when you go for the bang depends on the age of the women you're seeing. If they're teens and early 20's then yes, you must go for the SNL since you very likely will never get a second bite at that apple. However if they're in their 30's and beyond it can be an uphill climb getting the SNL since their ASD is in full bloom.

One strategy that you may try is doing the coffee dates for your first meeting. You can do these directly after work or even better, stack some together on a weekend. Keep them to about an hour long and use it as a low cost way of screening for SIFs, boring women or cuntish behavior. If you're sensing a good vibe and chemistry then pitch the after work drink date at a later time. You're now on your second date and many women will bang you at this point since it's not the first date. As absurd as that sounds...

[Beyond Borders]

I've had the issue with worrying whether I'll be attracted to them or not too. My taste in women can be very fickle at times, and I can be a real snob about being seen around town with someone who isn't somewhat of a hottie.

This is one of the reasons I'd much rather meet a girl around town than online, but the best way to screen for this if you want to eliminate the concern is to hop on a video chat. It's not a live meeting, but in my experience it's plenty enough to decide if she's actually as attractive as her pics or if there's any real chemistry.

Don't draw the call out too much. Just hop on long enough to feel her out, make her laugh a bit, and then make an excuse to get off.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you may be a little too inexperienced for the Zero-date strategy. If you don't have the personality/experience to fathom inviting a girl over to your place for a couple lighthearted drinks or a meal just because you haven't met in person, I'm not so sure you'll have what it takes to properly charm her when you get her there either. So a tailored version of Tuth's strategy might make more sense for you.

No, you don't have to make every first date about going out on the town for drinks late at night, but the late hour and the alcohol will combine to make the bang more likely. Probably will take more dates to close the deal in most cases if you try a different route.

But honestly, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Obviously it would make sense to tilt the odds in your favor as much as possible; on the other hand, if you are inexperienced like I assumed, spending more time with these women can only benefit you, in my opinion.

The value in the posts you mentioned is huge and it's funny how one small piece of advice from another guy's experience can pay huge dividends, but there's also a lot to be said for getting comfortable hanging out with women and trying to seduce them from various angles to develop your own personal style over time. And real life requires constantly customizing.

So don't feel like you need to do every single step to a "t."

[XPQ22]

I live in the suburbs a fair distance from the nearest major city. The women I was meeting usually lived a fair distance from me. The formula that worked well for me with online chicks in the late 20s to early 30s range over the summer was the following:

Set up coffee date for the evening at a shop in an area halfway between us that we both knew about. There were several spots that I knew about which in addition to the coffee shop, had both a quiet park and some other venues (bars, ice cream shops) nearby.

Get coffee or a snack, and go for a walk. "Oh hey, isn't this a nice little park?" Grab a bench in a secluded location and have your coffee or food and chat for a while. It was fairly straightforward for me to tell if they were into me and if I should go for some light touching/kino after about 30 minutes.

Watch the body language and signals. If they were receptive at that point and seemed to reciprocate, we have a go. If by that point I tried for some light physical contact and they seemed to stiffen or pull away or not reciprocate, then we likely have a bust. It's your call if you want to move towards ending the date or not at that point, some women will gladly hang out with you for as long as you want but not want you to be physical with them at all - for the record over the summer I went out on about 20 online dates, and only once did I get a second date out of a woman whom I didn't have any physical escalation with on the first date, and she rapidly bailed out on me on the second.

If they were OK with how things were progressing at about the 1 hour mark I'd go for a brief kiss. If they seemed OK with that (which if they were OK with the touching they usually were) it's then up to you. As the poster above mentioned, the chances of a SNL with a woman in that demographic are very slim, so it hardly mattered that we were in "neutral territory" and there weren't good logistics the first time out as I knew it wasn't going to happen anyway. So after these milestones are passed on a good date I might say "I know you need to get back at some point this evening, but want to grab a drink and chat some more? Actually I think I've got some beers or something in my car...."

Sort of ghetto, but you'd be surprised how great it worked even with college educated urban white women. I also have a pretty swanky car.

More conversation in car. have a drink, more physical escalation (makeout) but not too much, then let her go and let the chips fall where they may. I didn't always get a day 2 out of this method, but it worked fairly often, and was so dirt cheap, that it's what I came to rely on at that time.

Day 2: meet up with her near her place or yours on some pretext...dinner, movie, bar, it doesn't matter. Sometimes they'd just invite me to meet them at their place directly to "hang out" on the flimsiest of pretexts. Then you know what to do.

This will likely require some modifications to work during wintertime, however.

[WestIndianArchie]

So many variables

[HankMoody]

1. If you're unsure if she's hot, do a quick coffee meeting or a beer in an obscure part of town. You do not want to be seen out with ugly women. Ugly women lower your social status. Logistics make getting a bang here difficult, though. Assuming there's attraction, you're now looking at a 2 or 3 date bang.

2. If you are reasonably certain she's hot, go somewhere near your house and where you know everyone. When you walk into a bar, and all the bartenders / servers know you by first name, that's a good situation. Plus, you raise your social status by being seen with random multiple hot chicks, and the logistics make it relatively easy. (Caveat: I live in a major city, and there are a few bars near my house where I know all the staff).

3. Years later, my basic philosophy is this, though, having smashed through enough women online at this juncture. Life is short. Spending your time with vapid women is a bore. Try and do shit that you like. My goto was this jazz bar in another part of the city where I don't really know anyone. Even if my date ended up being ugly, at least I got to listen to some jazz. You wanna see a ballgame? Go to a ballgame. You feel like going to that one bar where the wings are tasty and only 50c a piece? Do it. I found that this approach actually got me the most bangs - I bring her into my world for a few minutes. Not to impress her, but because life is my playground and maybe she'll get to play in it. I stopped giving a shit about logistics and getting the bang - I just did shit that I felt like doing.

[XPQ22]

(12-07-2015 06:26 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

1. If you're unsure if she's hot, do a quick coffee meeting or a beer in an obscure part of town. You do not want to be seen out with ugly women. Ugly women lower your social status.

What town do you live in? Are you so well known by everyone there that it's a huge impact to your "status" that it matters who you're seen with?

I admit, from time to time I've been out with/had sex with women whom I might not want to be seen out and about with on a daily basis. I didn't care and just had a good time because I live in a metro area of a bajilion million people and even if I went on a date a day, it would be trivially easy to go places where nobody knows or cares who I am or who I'm with.

[Vincent Chase]

The mindset you need to have with the modern girls is the world ends at midnight.

I prefer dates earlier say around 7 to 8pm so you have plenty of time to escalate back to your house.

Meeting girls in a neutral venue say in the middle of the city is a waste of time most of the time for online girls. If you don't have the logistics to have sex then the date is not worth its weight in gold. Don't even bother meeting them.

You need to know how to escalate and set the frame. Most of my dates I get to know very little about the girl, the date just revolves about me and her, if she brings up a subject like work I have a few lines to get her to move straight away from the subject and never to bring it up again.

I have a script for dates. While I like to have the conversation flow naturally I have a a set of negative expressions, two sided statements (pull/push), frame setters of yielding to the good life, seeding of ideas, qualifiers, frame setters and polarising statements. I can naturally come up with those now and go to a date with a blank head.

I used to have this problem as well but can now comfortably get 70-80% of first date girls home. Whether they bang is another matter. Actually yesterday I kicked a girl out after eventually deciding it wasn't worth my energy to have sex with her. Her: "Shall we do something else?" Me: "No, let's go".

[griffinmill]

My logistics have always been fucked right up the wazoo, and therefore I've had to fuck these women in the back seat of my car and in hotels.

But because this is quite seedy, and a lot more difficult than inviting her back to yours "to listen to this cool jazz CD", it requires social intelligence and calibration. I'd always go for a kiss early, see if there's sexual chemistry, and over a few hours (or minutes) I'll know how pliable she is for me to lead to the sex location.

I have a go to spot to fuck them in the back seat. It's a very dark, very deserted park that getting to requires a drive down a very remote stretch of road. After a hot make-out in the car, I've driven them down to this spot in total silence, without a squeak of disaproval from them.

If I'd rather fuck them in a hotel room I'll say: "I'd like to invite you upstairs but I'm worried I might seduce you". (I always meet them in a hotel bar, by the way).

If the response is something like "Oh? You have a room?" or something else that doesn't totally rebuff me, then I continue this line but as if I'm joking and may not actually have a room. Testing the waters.

I will know from their general demeanour if they're okay with the idea. Though sometimes they'll just outright say they're down.

Then I go quickly to reception to assess availability.

[WestIndianArchie]

Proper game

Getting Good Intel
- you get the #
- she's down for a date

What is her living situation?
- in a dorm
- at home with her parents
- room mates
- girl friends
- husband/boyfriend?
- by herself

Where does she live?
Where is she willing to go?
Where does she want to go?
How will she get there?
How will she get back?

Does she drink? Does she like to party?
Does she like to smoke cigs?
Does she like to smoke trees? (how do you feel about these things?)

Now

What is your living situation?
Where do you live in relation to her?
In relation to the venue?
How are you getting there?
How are you getting back?
Are you going to drink?
How much cash do you have if things get hot and heavy, but an emergency pops up?

If the date is a dud, are you in a place to salvage the rest of the night?

And
- What night are you going out Thursday through Sat or Sunday through Wed?
- What time of night are you going out?
a) Happy hour - which can lead to appetizers or dinner
b) Dinner time
c) After dinner - which means you might have to call one of the chicks on your roster if this chick is a dud.

Making a good offer

If you have answers to all of these, and more logistical questions, then you have to make a good offer.

If you're doing the typical RVF "logistics only" style messages, she has to
- really like what she saw online
- really like your terse messages
- really like whatever you offer (new hot restaurant, new hot bar, cool art gallery, et cetera)

If you do it traditional style, and you develop a rapport over text, then she's more inclined to want to hang you with you the face/body and the personality. So that takes the pressure off going someplace "awesome" (and awesome is typically expensive either with money or time)

The Formulas

The Mys formula - Meet a chick for the first time at the club, bounce in the venue, bounce to a new venue, then home - doesn't take into account (explicitly) all these contingencies.

The Tuth formula, assumes that you can get her to a drink spot, and then whisk her back home easily.

The ZDB formula makes her take care of all of the logistics, so the real buttons to push are 1) volume of offers made, 2) how good the offer is.
{Editor's note - the younger you are, the younger the girl is, the easier this is to do actually. Netflix and chill isn't something us 40 year olds cae up with}

Older chicks want to be taken out, consider it a token. Like Khloe Kardashian said, "If you want to fuck a girl up the ass, at least take her to dinner first"
________________________________________________

In Practice
For me, I live in a cheap neighborhood.
- So in a meet her at the club and then one night situation, I get the girl's logistics upfront. If she doesn't live by herself, get her # and move on. All that banging behind the dumpster in an Alley is for you young dudes. Rock on!

- If it's a date situation, I know what she's about, and I can usually finagle my way into her spot. If she has roommates, we can do it college style.

- When I lived in a good neighborhood, close to the clubs, nothing was more than 5-10 bucks away by cab. Meet, Greet, 2 hours later Meat. That privilege would cost me at least 30k a year nowadays.

- When I lived out in the sticks, I had a car and my own spot. I could go wherever I wanted to go, and my game was good enough to keep her interested in hanging out with me if we decided to drive back to my place to "hear some records".

So let's recap

1) get good intel
2) make a good offer
3) execute

WIA

[B-Nut]

The #1 problem for guys on first dates/game in general is they try to get to know her like a normal human being.

It really does not matter if you and her share similar interests, or vibe great and the conversation is flowing. Many many men go on first dates and think they vibed great and got no second date.

The only thing that matters is SEXUAL chemistry. Not general chemistry in the sense like between you and any other person.

Actually, the two of you could literally have 0 chemistry in the general sense, she could not laugh at any of your jokes, the conversation could be bland. But if you have sexual chemistry aka the "spark" you will bang her.

The key is creating the sexual chemistry if you do not automatically induce it because of your looks.

[Robert Plant]

"The mindset you need to have with the modern girls is the world ends at midnight."

I think this depends on your age, location and situation. I am in my 40s and if I took this approach with women in their 20s, it would almost never work. Instead, with younger women, I lean back, show my value and if things are going well, my sexual prowess. With younger women I try to end the 1st date when they are at their most interested. This can get them chasing you, which is ideal.

"The key is creating the sexual chemistry if you do not automatically induce it because of your looks."

Yes but if you have looks this is so much easier. So maximize your looks.

[kaotic]

(12-07-2015 04:38 PM)Ryre Wrote:  

So what is the state of the art? Meet somewhere near your home at 9 or 9:30, say goodbye after one drink at most if she is not attractive, if she is attractive follow Tuth's advice about ramping up sexual tension without kissing and bouncing her back to your place? I may have answered my own question but I'd appreciate input. I will take no offense if this gets moved to the newbie forum. Thanks.

This is my specialty:

-Match, number close asap.
-Always get a confirmation picture - that way you aren't wasting time.
-Strike while the iron is hot, meet that week, preferably an evening during the weekday.
-Always have your logistics on lock, get them to come to you, have bars on lock.
-Always plan for 8:30 - 9pm, don't do some dinner bs.
-Bounce if you're bored and she isn't cute in person, don't waste your time.
-Tell some adventurous stories, make bitches laugh, tease them like a little sister.
-Keep an eye on her body language: Eyes, touching you, legs towards you, playing with hair etc.
-Drop bait about bouncing to your place, seeing a cetain movie, check out something you made, etc.
-If she doesn't bite, VENUE change.
-You should know by venue 2 if she's down or not.
-DON'T kiss her, don't giver her any sign of what you're about.
-Have her come to your pad, bang, or battle lmr and bang.

Ask me if you have any questions, I gotta go, gotta girl at my door right now.

[Drazen]

I'm not a fan for after work dates as either you, her or both are in a work mindset still. The girl is usually wound up after dealing with random work crap all day.

I like to drop my car at home then uber to a bar after being able to shower, lie down and change from my work clothes, I just feel more relaxed. Go to a venue that I've pre screened that has good logistics and seating/ambiance.

[kaotic]

WIA blew any sage advice I had out the water - good shit. Very detailed, I'd rep him again if I could.

[The Wire]

(12-07-2015 06:26 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

1. If you're unsure if she's hot, do a quick coffee meeting or a beer in an obscure part of town. You do not want to be seen out with ugly women. Ugly women lower your social status. Logistics make getting a bang here difficult, though.

You should be able to find out pretty accurately what a girl looks like before the date via the internet. Almost every girl has some sort of online footprint and it's incredibly easy to backtrack from all of the info you have especially once you get her number; I can only think of a girl or two before a date out of years of doing this where I literally could not find a single thing besides her online profile pictures. I've gone dark on a ton of girls once I got their number because I was then able to backtrack to their social media and get the real scoop on what they look like. The only thing that sucks is you find all the dark shit as well. There's been numerous occasions I find out a girl was engaged 4 months prior with a wedding date set and the works.

[griffinmill]

(12-08-2015 08:00 PM)The Wire Wrote:  

(12-07-2015 06:26 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

1. If you're unsure if she's hot, do a quick coffee meeting or a beer in an obscure part of town. You do not want to be seen out with ugly women. Ugly women lower your social status. Logistics make getting a bang here difficult, though.

You should be able to find out pretty accurately what a girl looks like before the date via the internet. Almost every girl has some sort of online footprint and it's incredibly easy to backtrack from all of the info you have especially once you get her number; I can only think of a girl or two before a date out of years of doing this where I literally could not find a single thing besides her online profile pictures. I've gone dark on a ton of girls once I got their number because I was then able to backtrack to their social media and get the real scoop on what they look like. The only thing that sucks is you find all the dark shit as well. There's been numerous occasions I find out a girl was engaged 4 months prior with a wedding date set and the works.

I'm an excellent internet detective and sometimes I'm able to find their details with only their first name and their general location as the only two piece of information I have. I too have discovered some dark stuff, and finding out their likes/dislikes through Facebook has put me off on more than one occasion. Also, this chick I met who told me she was married but wanted to be fucked on the side is a pretty funny anecdote for two reasons:

1) She had lots of Christian stuff on her Facebook, being quite a prominent and active member in her church community, and every other post was related to either her going to church or having just come from church.
2) She attempted to DHV herself in the typical way woman are wont to do, by telling me about her really really stupendously hot hunk of a husband who she nevertheless didn't want to have sex with any more. Little did she know I had already glimpsed her hubby, who was a balding, skinny, meek-looking little beta.

[griffinmill]

(12-09-2015 09:47 AM)griffinmill Wrote:  

[quote] (12-08-2015 08:00 PM)The Wire Wrote:  

1. If you're unsure if she's hot, do a quick coffee meeting or a beer in an obscure part of town. You do not want to be seen out with ugly women. Ugly women lower your social status. Logistics make getting a bang here difficult, though.

You should be able to find out pretty accurately what a girl looks like before the date via the internet. Almost every girl has some sort of online footprint and it's incredibly easy to backtrack from all of the info you have especially once you get her number; I can only think of a girl or two before a date out of years of doing this where I literally could not find a single thing besides her online profile pictures. I've gone dark on a ton of girls once I got their number because I was then able to backtrack to their social media and get the real scoop on what they look like. The only thing that sucks is you find all the dark shit as well. There's been numerous occasions I find out a girl was engaged 4 months prior with a wedding date set and the works.

I'm an excellent internet detective and sometimes I'm able to find their details with only their first name and their general location as the only two piece of information I have. I too have discovered some dark stuff, and finding out their likes/dislikes through Facebook has put me off on more than one occasion. Also, this chick I met who told me she was married but wanted to be fucked on the side is a pretty funny anecdote for two reasons:

1) She had lots of Christian stuff on her Facebook, being quite a prominent and active member in her church community, and every other post was related to either her going to church or having just come from church.
2) She attempted to DHV herself in the typical way woman are wont to do, by telling me about her really really stupendously hot hunk of a husband who she nevertheless didn't want to have sex with any more. Little did she know I had already glimpsed her hubby, who was a balding, skinny, meek-looking little beta.

[Mr.Philippines]

Went on a date with a 19yr old girl last night that I met online. Took her out to a bar that I regularly go to and have a good relationship with the head bartender.

(BTW I always capitalize on the bar's late night happy hour (9pm-Close) to make the date a little cheaper. )

We were suppose to meet at 9 but texted her @ 840 and told her I was going to be a few mins late (I usually do this when meeting a girl for the first time. Girls typically run late so I get ahead of the bullet. I get to the place 15-20mins later)

We sat at the bar for 1.5 hours, bought 2 drinks for myself, bought her 1 (totaled $14 including tip). I dropped bait of alcohol at my place. Bar seats aren't the most comfortable so once I saw that she was getting uncomfortable, I asked her back to my place... told her it was 6 miles aways. (I always tell girls how many miles instead of how many minutes.)

An 1.5 hrs later, I was smacking her ass while listening to music.

[Ryre]

Thanks for the input. Interesting that this is not as settled a question as it might be. There are quite a few variables at play including whether you are traveling by car or by foot, the season (meeting for coffee and going for a walk-makeout in the park is not going to work in winter), etc.

I've got two upscale restaurant/bars close to me, but only two, and nothing else--no dive bars or anything. (In summer there is a fun outdoor bar and a river walk that expand things considerably.)

Think I will start dropping in on those two places for the occasional late-evening drink, check them out. Then I can start scheduling my dates at them, for 9ish on weeknights. I'm usually having a drink and relaxing around that time anyway so this will take very little energy; I won't have to skip workouts like I do when the date is for happy hour, I'll just be having my evening drink at a bar 100 yards away instead of on my couch.

If she is ugly or dull I can get out after one drink. Otherwise I can work the first-night bang plan. Even though the two spots are close maybe I can come up with a reason to bounce for one to another, like that one has a specialty cocktail but the other has better late-night food.

Sounds like some of the guys who weighed in on this thread have success with a quick happy-hour or coffee date as a first meet. For me that doesn't seem to work. Turning things in a flirty/sexual direction can be a problem for me and if I am 3 miles from home at 7:00 in a busy bar it's too easy to let the interaction stay platonic. At 9:00 with taking her home a real possibility I'll be more motivated. The risk of things staying sexless is worse than the risk of triggering ASD by trying to get her home too soon. Girls that won't come home are unlikely to be offended by my asking (on a pretext). What does seem to put a lot of girls off is an awkward attempt at a makeout on the street or in the bar. I'll follow Tuth's plan of escalating tension while maintaining ambiguity while we are out.

[OregonToSoCal]

I had a first date last night from Bumble with a 34yo divorcee. I ran the classic first date bang formula and she was essentially all over me once we got back to my place but she absolutely, positively would not bang despite all of my LMR tactics. She kept saying that she couldn't bring herself to have sex on a first date.

It's been my experience that more often than not, the women I'm dating all feel this way. They have HUGE hangups on having first date sex. I've already begun working the two date bang model and last night was another confirmation that at least for me, that's the tactic I need to take.

But if your game lends itself to first date bangs, by all means go for it.

[MY DETROIT PLAYAS]

(12-09-2015 09:50 AM)griffinmill Wrote:  

(12-09-2015 09:47 AM)griffinmill Wrote:  

[quote] (12-08-2015 08:00 PM)The Wire Wrote:  

1. If you're unsure if she's hot, do a quick coffee meeting or a beer in an obscure part of town. You do not want to be seen out with ugly women. Ugly women lower your social status. Logistics make getting a bang here difficult, though.

You should be able to find out pretty accurately what a girl looks like before the date via the internet. Almost every girl has some sort of online footprint and it's incredibly easy to backtrack from all of the info you have especially once you get her number; I can only think of a girl or two before a date out of years of doing this where I literally could not find a single thing besides her online profile pictures. I've gone dark on a ton of girls once I got their number because I was then able to backtrack to their social media and get the real scoop on what they look like. The only thing that sucks is you find all the dark shit as well. There's been numerous occasions I find out a girl was engaged 4 months prior with a wedding date set and the works.

I'm an excellent internet detective and sometimes I'm able to find their details with only their first name and their general location as the only two piece of information I have. I too have discovered some dark stuff, and finding out their likes/dislikes through Facebook has put me off on more than one occasion. Also, this chick I met who told me she was married but wanted to be fucked on the side is a pretty funny anecdote for two reasons:

1) She had lots of Christian stuff on her Facebook, being quite a prominent and active member in her church community, and every other post was related to either her going to church or having just come from church.
2) She attempted to DHV herself in the typical way woman are wont to do, by telling me about her really really stupendously hot hunk of a husband who she nevertheless didn't want to have sex with any more. Little did she know I had already glimpsed her hubby, who was a balding, skinny, meek-looking little beta.

This highlights the difference between her public identity and how she wants to be perceived, versus who she is at her core

The Christian front provides her with an honorable cover while throwing off unattractive suitors from the trail

Once you peel back the layers, you start to see that what's in her head doesn't always match what is in her heart.