[jariel]

(07-06-2011 05:06 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

This happens even when we're just sexing them. Fat chicks think they're desirable because they get hit on occasionally.

Well, let's take this a step further.

That fake swag comes from the fact that these chicks, especially fat white chicks, are able to get dick from attractive black men, at least more attractive than whatever white men they could get.

If you ever see an attractive white dude with a fat white woman, chances are, he didn't meet her like that, they got caught up in a relationship, she got comfortable, and let herself go.

Problem I have is when ethnic men hold up white women as trophies, so they will take any one they can get. I've always felt that if you're going to be in a relationship with someone outside your race, culture, whatever, get a bad bitch, not someone else's leftovers.

If you're just a player that likes pussy, then fuck these women in the middle of the night, and then leave them alone in the dark to ponder their reality while they lay in the sweat and seeds you left on their sheets.

[Gmac]

(07-07-2011 06:01 PM)jariel Wrote:  

If you're just a player that likes pussy, then fuck these women in the middle of the night, and then leave them alone in the dark to ponder their reality while they lay in the sweat and seeds you left on their sheets.

Bingo. +1

[Urban Renaissance Man]

(07-07-2011 05:42 PM)jariel Wrote:  

That being said, one way to get a dime piece is to train one, if you have the patience. I know a few girls who already have cute faces, if they just lost 30 pounds would be banging. If you put in the work to help them get there, they'll appreciate that shit forever. The thing is with a lot of these girls, even after they lose the weight, they still have the fat girl mindset, so it takes a little longer for their inner game to develop.

I'd be careful about trying to 'mold' a fat or mediocre into a dime. There are two issues that can come up while you're doing that...

#1, It rarely works! There's something wrong with her character (or a medical problem) to allow herself to get that fat in the first place! She will begin to feel resentment towards you for "not loving her the way she is", or, "forcing her to change", etc. Unless you're prepared to spend thousands of dollars on 'quick fixes', (Lipo, boob jobs, etc) it most likely won't work. Rarely will she have the will power to excercise regularly or eat right long enough to lose weight and KEEP IT OFF.

#2,The girl loses weight and starts looking good. Problem is, now she's getting hit on by thousands of higher quality men. Normally not much of an issue if you're dealing with a girl who was already hot when you met her and is used to the attention. But these former fatties are not mentally prepared for it! They become addicted to the new found 'acceptance' and become little attention whores and sluts! Cheating on you, or flat out leaving you and 'upgrading' is likely the moment you have a really good argument!

#3, This is a bit more deep... I've found that when you date down, (You're a 7 and you date a 5) the woman actually scorns and despises you on a subconscious level. It sort of like the Groucho Marx, "I wouldn't want to belong to a club that would have me as a member", dynamic that comes into play. These women deep down wonder what's wrong with you for liking them! They can sense that's something is wrong with your self-esteem to even be dating them. And they grow to disrespect you for it. Very seldom will you meet a girl who actually appreciates the time and effort you put forth into turning her into a dime!

It's far easier just to go out and find a girl who's hot in the first place!

[UrbanNerd]

(07-07-2011 06:01 PM)jariel Wrote:  

Problem I have is when ethnic men hold up white women as trophies, so they will take any one they can get. I've always felt that if you're going to be in a relationship with someone outside your race, culture, whatever, get a bad bitch, not someone else's leftovers.

I have the same mindset. If you are going to go through still-present society push-back against dating outside of your race, the lack-of-approval from her family, etc....might as well get a fine chick outside of your race. Get a chick that the other race at least feel that is was a "loss".

For a brotha to parade around with some 300-pound, Marlboro-smoking white chick is just....ugh.

[AVisitor]

The "300-pound" chick on an ethnic man's arm is precisely the preference of said ethnic. I'm not sure why no one's mentioning the fact that dark men such as Blacks and Indians actually prefer curvy women. If given a choice between a slim girl and a curvy girl they would actually choose the curvy girl of their own will. (Western cultural notions don't apply to non-Western men.) Race isn't really at issue here, it could be a curvy Asian as well, and she would get plenty of attention from these men.

[Roosh]

Also I don't know why people complain about guys getting with fat chicks. It removes a guy from the dating pool, thereby improving your odds.

[Tuthmosis]

(07-08-2011 02:00 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Also I don't know why people complain about guys getting with fat chicks. It removes a guy from the dating pool, thereby improving your odds.

I agree 101 percent. I'm always preaching this sermon. I especially love it when I see a guy that could definitely do better self-neutralize with a fatty. Just two days ago, I saw a guy like this hugging and kissing on a roly-poly fatty at a bus stop.

[Urban Renaissance Man]

(07-08-2011 02:00 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Also I don't know why people complain about guys getting with fat chicks. It removes a guy from the dating pool, thereby improving your odds.

Well, as black men, we complain because it makes us look desperate, easy and foolish! It would be one thing if it were a rare occurance, but it happens so often until now it's reached stereotype levels! It brings down our value because it gives the impression that we have low standards and any white girl can have any of us!

As far as black men simple loving curvy women, you have a point on "curvy." Not FAT! I can accept the fact that blacks might be a bit more tolerant of larger women, maybe even finding the beauty in them, since the women we grow up around are usually on the larger side, so we get used to it. However, as the saying goes, "Black men don't like fat women, broke men like fat women!" You can see this with athletes and rappers. Once they get money, the aren't dating these fatties They are dating hot white girls, when they date them. Or hot Latinas. If we were just programmed to like fat girls, the rich and famous blacks would still be following suit!

[Samseau]

(07-08-2011 02:00 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Also I don't know why people complain about guys getting with fat chicks. It removes a guy from the dating pool, thereby improving your odds.

But it also shows women that they can become fat and suffer no consequences.

[Basil Ransom]

(07-08-2011 11:23 AM)Urban Renaissance Man Wrote:  

I'd be careful about trying to 'mold' a fat or mediocre into a dime. There are two issues that can come up while you're doing that...

#1, It rarely works! There's something wrong with her character (or a medical problem) to allow herself to get that fat in the first place! She will begin to feel resentment towards you for "not loving her the way she is", or, "forcing her to change", etc. Unless you're prepared to spend thousands of dollars on 'quick fixes', (Lipo, boob jobs, etc) it most likely won't work. Rarely will she have the will power to excercise regularly or eat right long enough to lose weight and KEEP IT OFF.

#3, This is a bit more deep... I've found that when you date down, (You're a 7 and you date a 5) the woman actually scorns and despises you on a subconscious level. It sort of like the Groucho Marx, "I wouldn't want to belong to a club that would have me as a member", dynamic that comes into play. These women deep down wonder what's wrong with you for liking them! They can sense that's something is wrong with your self-esteem to even be dating them. And they grow to disrespect you for it. Very seldom will you meet a girl who actually appreciates the time and effort you put forth into turning her into a dime!

It's far easier just to go out and find a girl who's hot in the first place!

Great point, I've seen and said the same thing with 1 and 3.

Long story short, there was a chubby girl I saw twice, and I told her to work out. We got to arguing, and she said:

...if a man didn't like her the way she was, but was still going after her, it's proof he is a loser. After all, she isn't what he wants, so why is he talking to her? It must be because he can't do better, and she doesn't want to be with a guy who isn't good enough to get what he wants.

And suddenly the fattie has turned your tepid response to her into her rejection of you.

[Urban Renaissance Man]

(07-08-2011 05:46 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

Long story short, there was a chubby girl I saw twice, and I told her to work out. We got to arguing, and she said..."If a man didn't like her the way she was, but was still going after her, it's proof he is a loser. After all, she isn't what he wants, so why is he talking to her? It must be because he can't do better, and she doesn't want to be with a guy who isn't good enough to get what he wants."

Damn, that was a Jedi Mind Trick for your ass! But you know what? She's absolutely right! We are not doing ourselves, nor the girl a favor by dating down! We're just frustrating her, because she's never going to quite live up to our standards, and those feelings are going to inevitably come out in how we treat and talk to her at times. We're also doing a number on our self-esteem, because we can't possibly feel good about ourselves dating a girl we know we have no business with!

There's one other thing to consider... When you date these below average (Or even just at average) girls, you boost her self-esteem up, artificially and temporarily at least, and give her the feeling of, "If I got him, I can get more like him" attitude! There's nothing worse than having a girl break up with you, who you didn't feel measured up to you in the first place!!!

[Roosh]

Quote:

But it also shows women that they can become fat and suffer no consequences.

So you're saying that if a girl can be fat but still get hit on a lot, then over time most girls will turn fat even though guys like us never hit on us.

Your logic is sound.

[jariel]

(07-08-2011 11:23 AM)Urban Renaissance Man Wrote:  

It's far easier just to go out and find a girl who's hot in the first place!

Agreed, but both men and women constantly try to take lemons and turn them into lemonade.

[jariel]

(07-08-2011 05:21 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(07-08-2011 02:00 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Also I don't know why people complain about guys getting with fat chicks. It removes a guy from the dating pool, thereby improving your odds.

But it also shows women that they can become fat and suffer no consequences.

Your logic is definitely off on this one.

The only guys that pursue these women are low quality men, that's the part of the story the chicks ALWAYS leave out.

When these women do get someone around them they do like because he is of higher quality than them (especially in the looks department), those men just use them as jump-offs.

These girls don't derive their value from 3 AM smash and dashes, they do from beta motherfuckers who are blessing them with renditions of Jodeci's classics, Italian gourmet dinners, and pairs of Charlotte Olympia pumps.

[Samseau]

(07-08-2011 06:46 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:

But it also shows women that they can become fat and suffer no consequences.

So you're saying that if a girl can be fat but still get hit on a lot, then over time most girls will turn fat even though guys like us never hit on us.

Your logic is sound.

Obviously not all girls will become fat. My language of "suffer no consequences" should have been "suffer reduced consequences".

What it comes down to is whether or not a woman prefers food or men more. Given the obesity levels in America, it doesn't seem men are preferred too well.

This matches my experience: most girls get fat, especially in their thirties.


My explanation for all of this is from the taboo's against fat shaming. Calling someone fat is seen as extremely disrespectful, bordering on ex-communication levels of reciprocation. Without fat shaming, women will let themselves go as a reduced quality in men isn't enough to deter them from enjoying those precious comfort foods.

Fat shaming has to go both ways: Both the women who is fat needs to be shamed, and any man who fucks a fattie must be shamed. This makes sure fatties receive as little male contact as possible and also encourages them to lose weight.

This contradicts the idea of the boner test but if you want a society without fat girls it must be seen as a disgrace to be fat.

[Brian]

its not even that they love food, its just they are too lazy to exercise and make 10 million excuses why they cant hit the gym. 1 pound a month for 4 years is almost 50 pounds. so the girl who is hot in her 20's and exercises regularly, then gets kind of bored w/the gym and doesnt find any other fitness activities to interest her doesnt have a huge immediate drop off in personal appearance. or gets a boyfriend and is less incentivized, and once the gym membership stops getting used and canceled its pretty much the end of the hot body. if she were to eat well and put in the work it would come back, but its just a laziness thing.

[Hooligan Harry]

The problem is not that there are men willing to fat fuck women. Its that the fat women remove competition for the remaining normal, healthy women.

Think of it this way. If there was very little obesity, say 1950's levels, then the vast majority of women under 30 would be slim. So out of every 100 women, there would be x number of 10's, 9's, 8's etc. With the relevant attitudes of 10's, 9's and 8's.

Now if half the female population is fat, all of a sudden you have HALF the number of 10's, 9's and 8's running around, and far less competition between them for the men out there. You also have half the number of 7's and 6's. Competition for them increases too. So the attitudes of women across the scale becomes worse, to the point where a slender 7 acts like a fucking 9 in any other country would. They bring so little to the table, but because they have so little competition men are forced to accept the constant bullshit.

As more women become obese, the scales start to change too. To the point where a chubster ranks as a 6 for some because she has a "phat azz" and a pretty face. Or the butterface phenomenon, where men are happy to excuse a pitbull like face on banging body and happily throw around 7.5 or 8 because you can bounce a coin off her ass.

So the attitudes of the women become even worse and you have to deal with more shit from sub standard women. Sound familiar at all guys?

This is why I say to most people: Its not that the women in Eastern Europe or Asia are naturally more attractive or more determined to please their men. Its simply that the vast majority are not fat and there is more competition between them for eligible men. They have to try harder because there are tons of other 7's or 8's out there that will do more to keep you happy. The reason there seem to be so many hot women is because there are so many slim women. Thats it.

We are living in the perfect storm

1 - Obesity epidemic removing attractive women from society.
2 - Feminism instilling a sense of entitlement amplifying the attitudes of all women across the scale
3 - Legislation and family courts eroding what social, economic and political power you had left.
4 - Family values taking a nose dive to the point where women no longer want to bare children in their prime.

I have lived in a society where the situation was reversed. I spent a solid 12 months over the course of a two years in Samara, Russia. I was there for work. For the women there, it was the perfect storm

1 - Alcoholism was rife and the local men where hard drinking, early to die deadbeats
2 - The women were predominantly slim and there were more women than men. There was a physical shortage of men there
3 - The economy was in the shitter and they did not have the cubicle type jobs available which our go getting western women enjoy. They were lucky to have a job on a production line or cleaning toilets.
4 - There were no special privileges or laws for women and they were not shielded from life like western women are. Being alone was intimidating for them.

Result? I saw mid 40's, fat, geeky engineers fucking and marrying 8's. I knew one guy in his mid 50's who married a chick that was half his age and could have been on the cover of Maxim. They are still together last I heard, with kids. Chemists who could not land a date in college would have 9's almost stalking them. Most of the men who ended up there ended up leaving their wives or girlfriends back home and some ended up relocating there permanently. You had men who would be classified as 4's and 5's back home acting like 8's and 9's. And contrary to poplar belief, the women were not looking for passports, just husbands.

Its market forces at work. When supply drops and demand remains the same you see price increases. The further supply erodes the higher prices climb.

Eventually you end up with a clunky model that does not work properly and gives you endless shit. All for the princely sum of half your wages and your future children if it packs in completely. Failure rates of models are 50% and climbing, while models become more clunky as manufacturing standards drop. All models comes with manufacturer support and protection via government and threat of prison. Current laws attempt to restrict the importation of working models to protect local industry. Pretty soon failure to buy local models will result in further taxation through "bachelor taxes" imposed to prop up government support for clunky models.

[Brian]

^^^^^^ Post of the Month

[The Duke]

Nice post Harry. When were you in Samara? Is the perfect storm there over?

[AVisitor]

Living in Russia is a trade-off. On the one hand, there's an awesome sex ratio and the girls are slim, but the country is very dangerous and the levels of crime, STDs, and mortality are through the roof.

I would certainly prefer a relaxed environment where the girls outnumber me and chase me, but also one where the standard of living is high, people generally follow the laws, and the culture is not as rough.

I also don't consider Russian women to be all that attractive, contrary to the stereotype. They don't have Western features, but that could be a matter of taste.

I'm wondering if there are places that provide the best combination: an abundance of women, but also relatively prosperous democracies with a good standard of living. For example, I've heard that New Zealand, and to a lesser extent Australia, have a surplus of women, and are sexually liberal places, but also safe and Western. Also, the Baltic republics, especially Estonia and Latvia, have large numbers of women, and also quite safe and pleasant.

[Hooligan Harry]

(07-10-2011 03:24 PM)The Duke Wrote:  

Nice post Harry. When were you in Samara? Is the perfect storm there over?

I was there in the late 90's and early 00's. I spent a lot of time in Samara, although was all over the country over a span of about 6 years. Russia was and still is in the middle of a massive resources boom and they cant dig the stuff out fast enough and I just happen to be in the industry.

The situation has not changed much IMO. In places like Moscow and St Petersburg its a hell of a lot better for the people and things have been improving. These are world cities now, although still happy hunting grounds if you have a bit of money and know the language. Still, go to the smaller cities and the situation is much the same as it was back then, and things are changing far slower.

The thing is that the women are conservative and you are not going to be banging first night in most cases. Sure it happens, but they are not easy to put out. The difference is that you really do have your pick out there and the women are amazing once you get used to the culture differences.

Washington DC sounds like Australia to me. The men out here are marrying more and more asian women by the day and they are fed up too. Then they release articles like this and all the men are wondering what the hell the women want

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26420609/n...australia/

http://health.ninemsn.com.au/menshealth/...an-drought

We live in feminist covens guys!

[Hooligan Harry]

(07-10-2011 05:30 PM)AVisitor Wrote:  

Living in Russia is a trade-off. On the one hand, there's an awesome sex ratio and the girls are slim, but the country is very dangerous and the levels of crime, STDs, and mortality are through the roof.

Just because they die young from boozing and dangerous work does not mean you will. As for STD's, 1 in 4 American teenage girls has already had an STD dude. Yes there is more crime, but its mostly substance abuse related.

I have been there long enough to know that I would not want to live there either. Quality of life is terrible and that is dictated more by the weather than anything else.

Quote:

I'm wondering if there are places that provide the best combination: an abundance of women, but also relatively prosperous democracies with a good standard of living. For example, I've heard that New Zealand, and to a lesser extent Australia, have a surplus of women, and are sexually liberal places, but also safe and Western. Also, the Baltic republics, especially Estonia and Latvia, have large numbers of women, and also quite safe and pleasant.

Latvia and Estonia have many of the same problems that Russia does. Australia and New Zealand are part of the anglo sphere bro with family court laws that make american laws pale now. In Australia just co habitation for 6 months is classified as common law marriage with access to assets, while in New Zealand, ONLY ONE CHARGE OF POTENTIAL HARM laid with the police means a restraining order. You would not see your kids or even be able to phone them.

For me, South America offers the best quality of life. Asia offers the cheapest standard of living. Eastern Europe and Russia have the best women. Western countries make life the easiest, but our quality of life is not as good and the women are shit.

[AVisitor]

No question about Eastern Europe. Those really are the "best women," based on a variety of factors: looks, culture, and mentality.

I just feel that Russian women shouldn't be lumped into the same category as E.E. women, because Russia is a special case and is not really European.

When talking about "the best women" some factors I consider are not only looks, but also whether she is genuinely committed to me, without any ulterior motives (e.g. money or citizenship); whether she's easy-going and friendly, as opposed to cynical and manipulative; and whether her lifestyle is generally healthy, as opposed to deviant (smoking/drinking). In my experience, most E.E. women pass those tests, but the Russian women do not. That, for me, detracts from their value.

[Arado]

(07-10-2011 10:02 PM)AVisitor Wrote:  

No question about Eastern Europe. Those really are the "best women," based on a variety of factors: looks, culture, and mentality.

I just feel that Russian women shouldn't be lumped into the same category as E.E. women, because Russia is a special case and is not really European.

When talking about "the best women" some factors I consider are not only looks, but also whether she is genuinely committed to me, without any ulterior motives (e.g. money or citizenship); whether she's easy-going and friendly, as opposed to cynical and manipulative; and whether her lifestyle is generally healthy, as opposed to deviant (smoking/drinking). In my experience, most E.E. women pass those tests, but the Russian women do not. That, for me, detracts from their value.

Isn't the economy better in Russia, though, then Ukraine/Moldova/Romania so the women will be less likely to be seeking immigration and citizenship?

Where are most of the Russian women going out to in DC?

[Gmac]

(07-09-2011 07:51 PM)jariel Wrote:  

The only guys that pursue these women are low quality men, that's the part of the story the chicks ALWAYS leave out.

This is where you are wrong, especially in DC.

I see it all the fucking time, EVERYWHERE! It's as mind boggling as it is disgusting.

But I agree, it helps keep these men off the market to an extent (i.e. when they aren't cheating).