[Sonny Forelli]

I really wanted to do a cross-country trip of the US this year but my application for a tourist visa was rejected. I'm not sure what to do next. I've heard that reapplying too soon is not a good idea.

Is applying for a student visa to get a pilot's license/flight school a surefire method to get a visa?

[MiXX]

(06-25-2011 07:36 PM)Sonny Forelli Wrote:  

I really wanted to do a cross-country trip of the US this year but my application for a tourist visa was rejected. I'm not sure what to do next. I've heard that reapplying too soon is not a good idea.

Is applying for a student visa to get a pilot's license/flight school a surefire method to get a visa?

What passport do you have? If a tourist Visa was recently denied, then re-applying too soon for the same Tourist Visa would likely yield the same results.

My advice, and I am not an immigration attorney mind you, but from what I have seen is that applying for a student Visa is much easier than a tourist Visa.

Get in touch with a local immigration attorney that can help you. I think they are worth the expense, especially if you have already been denied.

My .02

Mixx

[Sonny Forelli]

(06-25-2011 08:10 PM)MiXX Wrote:  

(06-25-2011 07:36 PM)Sonny Forelli Wrote:  

I really wanted to do a cross-country trip of the US this year but my application for a tourist visa was rejected. I'm not sure what to do next. I've heard that reapplying too soon is not a good idea.

Is applying for a student visa to get a pilot's license/flight school a surefire method to get a visa?

What passport do you have? If a tourist Visa was recently denied, then re-applying too soon for the same Tourist Visa would likely yield the same results.

My advice, and I am not an immigration attorney mind you, but from what I have seen is that applying for a student Visa is much easier than a tourist Visa.

Get in touch with a local immigration attorney that can help you. I think they are worth the expense, especially if you have already been denied.

My .02

Mixx

Indian passport... and the thing is I don't really want to fork over 40 thousand dollars for flight school now if there's an easier way. I just want to visit places.

Also, my academic record is a bit "unique". I have 2 diplomas, which is what I mentioned in the tourist visa application last time, which is true, but as far as the formal education system goes- I dropped out in 9th grade (did not mention this). And I believe most flight schools need at least grade 12 qualifications. Such certificate can be "arranged" in India nevertheless, but there are a lot of open-ended questions.

I think I'll contact Murthy.com or Y-axis, though the latter seem to only fill out forms and render clerical services.

[Pete]

(06-25-2011 08:10 PM)MiXX Wrote:  

(06-25-2011 07:36 PM)Sonny Forelli Wrote:  

I really wanted to do a cross-country trip of the US this year but my application for a tourist visa was rejected. I'm not sure what to do next. I've heard that reapplying too soon is not a good idea.

Is applying for a student visa to get a pilot's license/flight school a surefire method to get a visa?

What passport do you have? If a tourist Visa was recently denied, then re-applying too soon for the same Tourist Visa would likely yield the same results.

My advice, and I am not an immigration attorney mind you, but from what I have seen is that applying for a student Visa is much easier than a tourist Visa.

Get in touch with a local immigration attorney that can help you. I think they are worth the expense, especially if you have already been denied.

My .02

Mixx

+1
A professional might make it easier or make it happen.

[oldnemesis]

(06-25-2011 08:20 PM)Sonny Forelli Wrote:  

Indian passport...

Which consulate?
I suggest you check some India-specific immigration forums. Ask about the consulate you applied in. Different consulates pay attention to different things, and your situation may be easier to fix than you think.

Saying so, if you're young, educated, unemployed, not married, have no property in India, and didn't travel a lot, your chance to get any serious visa is low. But it is not zero.

[Sonny Forelli]

(06-28-2011 02:32 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(06-25-2011 08:20 PM)Sonny Forelli Wrote:  

Indian passport...

Which consulate?
I suggest you check some India-specific immigration forums. Ask about the consulate you applied in. Different consulates pay attention to different things, and your situation may be easier to fix than you think.

Saying so, if you're young, educated, unemployed, not married, have no property in India, and didn't travel a lot, your chance to get any serious visa is low. But it is not zero.

Mumbai consulate. I own property (a flat) in my name, and I had taken the deed along with bank statements etc to show them but the interviewer didn't even ask to see them, and when I offered to show them to her she said "no, I believe you but you aren't eligible for a visa at this time". I am unmarried and have never been out of India yet, though I've traveled extensively within India. She did comment that my "situation is unique" and seemed skeptical when I said I started my own company at the age of 17. Her tone became very sarcastic upon hearing this, though the bank statements would have corroborated my statement.

[Vacancier Permanent]

Consulting a lawyer is a good idea. Ultimately, what those imigration officers want to see is reasons strong enough for you to return to India and not end up being an illegal working there. Alternatively, there are a lot of other great and better options than the US to visit/travel to.

[MiXX]

(06-28-2011 01:47 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  

Alternatively, there are a lot of other great and better options than the US to visit/travel to.

Agreed. If you are Indian, I'd be heading to Vancouver, CN -a place known to have pretty women who show love for Indians.

You will not get much love from American girls as an Indian unless you look like a Bollywood movie star.

Mixx

[oldnemesis]

(06-28-2011 05:28 AM)Sonny Forelli Wrote:  

Mumbai consulate. I own property (a flat) in my name, and I had taken the deed along with bank statements etc to show them but the interviewer didn't even ask to see them, and when I offered to show them to her she said "no, I believe you but you aren't eligible for a visa at this time". I am unmarried and have never been out of India yet, though I've traveled extensively within India. She did comment that my "situation is unique" and seemed skeptical when I said I started my own company at the age of 17. Her tone became very sarcastic upon hearing this, though the bank statements would have corroborated my statement.

Thing is, a lot of Indians applying for US visas go for all means to get them, including fraud. As I said, check Indian immigration forums, some people there openly disclose how they fooled the Consulate, which included bringing fake bank statements, apartment titles and even marriage certificates. Of course this makes the Consulate personnel skeptical. You probably know it yourself how easy it is to fake the document, and how difficult it would be to check whether it is real.

Therefore the Consulate adopted different strategy. They do not really look at documents, they look at YOU. Your behavior before (!) and during the interview is the major - if not critical - factor in determining whether you get a visa. They are trained to watch your body language, face expression and other things which are much harder to fake comparing to your bank statement. If you're nervous, over-excited or faking the confidence, it is unlikely you'd get a visa. Now this probably contradicts your all prior experience - from what I know, India is more like Russia, people there only trust what's written on paper, and if paper says one thing and you look another thing, they would trust the paper. Consulate is completely the opposite.

The second important thing is the documents you have, and the order you present them. The interview cannot last forever, and there is a limited number of documents the interviewer will consider. In my case I hanged over the whole pack of documents, but it had the cover sheet on top. This sheet gave the summary of what's inside, making it easy to quickly decide what they are interested to see. Moreover, giving it this way shows confidence, that you are honest person who has nothing to hide (i.e. you're not keeping some questionable documents with you but hope nobody would ever ask for them).

And of course your arguments. This is where you need someone experienced with a specific Consulate. Some of your arguments make absolutely no sense for the Consulate, and may even further disqualify you. For example, mentioning you started the business when you were 17 shows you're the entrepreneur and quick to catch up a possible business opportunity - this would be good if you applied for a business visa, but it might make the interviewer suspicious if you're applying for a tourist visa. In your case I guess she suspected you lied about it, and your bank statements were fake.

So check all three, and apply again.

[skulled]

(06-28-2011 05:25 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

Therefore the Consulate adopted different strategy. They do not really look at documents, they look at YOU. Your behavior before (!) and during the interview is the major - if not critical - factor in determining whether you get a visa. They are trained to watch your body language, face expression and other things which are much harder to fake comparing to your bank statement. If you're nervous, over-excited or faking the confidence, it is unlikely you'd get a visa.

This most probably is the reason you got rejected.

I hear/have heard a lot of people complaining about getting rejected, but they never pay attention to what they might have done wrong. And I have seen people doing some retarded stuff at the visa interview personally. I am not saying that you did anything of that sort, but in general in a country like India where a massive amount of people apply for the US visa the Consulate personnel are more stringent and have no option but to reject many people.

So your best bet is to not give them a reason to reject you. A few things I have always told people:

- Dress well. This generally means no funny t-shirts, torn jeans or anything else you think projects you as a cool person. It might work for a EU citizen at a visa interview, but you can be sure that it won't do you any favors unless you are a celebrity/well-known person of some sort in a country like India. So many people underestimate the power of dressing well nowadays it is amazing.

- Do not act eager. They will ask you if they want to know something. There is absolutely no necessity for you to spill your guts out the minute you are at the counter.

- Provide the documents they have asked for. Don't thrust documents you feel they should see just because you think or someone told you that it will increase the chances of you getting a visa

- Speak clearly and slowly. Don't rush through sentences or try to speak with any sort of western accent etc. You are in a conversation, so if you rattle off sentences without the appropriate breaks and pauses it will reek of memorized lines.

- Have a clear explanation as to why you are going there within the visa category you applied for. This is very important. If you have a well defined itinerary, tell them about it. If not, give them an overview of your trip. A lot of people try to sneak in through a visa category, but are actually going for other purposes. These sort of things will get you rejected off the bat if they even smell funny on you.

- Do not argue with them under any cost!!

The bottom line is they base their judgement on you, not on the documents you supplied. The documents are more or less just a matter of administrative issue and confirmation for a few things.

Best of luck when you apply again!

[Sonny Forelli]

(06-28-2011 05:25 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

For example, mentioning you started the business when you were 17 shows you're the entrepreneur and quick to catch up a possible business opportunity - this would be good if you applied for a business visa, but it might make the interviewer suspicious if you're applying for a tourist visa. In your case I guess she suspected you lied about it, and your bank statements were fake.

So check all three, and apply again.

I had actually applied for a business and tourism visa (b1/b2) with the stated aim of attending the Ad Tech conference in San Francisco.

(06-29-2011 12:32 AM)skulled Wrote:  

- Dress well. This generally means no funny t-shirts, torn jeans or anything else you think projects you as a cool person. It might work for a EU citizen at a visa interview, but you can be sure that it won't do you any favors unless you are a celebrity/well-known person of some sort in a country like India. So many people underestimate the power of dressing well nowadays it is amazing.

I did. I was wearing a white full sleeved silk shirt, and blue jeans. Business casual.

(06-29-2011 12:32 AM)skulled Wrote:  

- Do not act eager. They will ask you if they want to know something. There is absolutely no necessity for you to spill your guts out the minute you are at the counter.

I did not do this. Even though I had two business cards of people working within the US embassy, I did not present them because I never got the chance to. I am not sure if that would have improved my chances of getting the visa or just made me look shadier/a name dropper. In retrospect I probably SHOULD have presented them as I had nothing to lose. But hindsight is always 20/20, meh.

(06-29-2011 12:32 AM)skulled Wrote:  

- Speak clearly and slowly. Don't rush through sentences or try to speak with any sort of western accent etc. You are in a conversation, so if you rattle off sentences without the appropriate breaks and pauses it will reek of memorized lines.

I did speak perfectly clearly and normally. People here say I have a neutral or slightly americanized accent, though I don't try to do that on purpose, it probably comes from talking on the phone with westerners a lot and watching way too many Hollywood movies & TV shows. Anyway, it doesn't sound fake.

(06-29-2011 12:32 AM)skulled Wrote:  

Have a clear explanation as to why you are going there within the visa category you applied for. This is very important. If you have a well defined itinerary, tell them about it. If not, give them an overview of your trip. A lot of people try to sneak in through a visa category, but are actually going for other purposes. These sort of things will get you rejected off the bat if they even smell funny on you.

I did. I even had flight tickets and hotel reservation printouts among the documents I had taken along but they weren't even looked at.

Thanks all the same for all your posts. They have been insightful.

One thing that really stood out in the interview as the possible reason for rejection was the question "have you ever traveled to any other countries before", and the question "why are you going now?" was repeated several times, and when I said "this is the first time" she said that I am repeating myself and not answering the question as to why this is the first time I am going outside India. I wanted to say that we all start sometime, but instead I just shut up and looked pathetic because I didn't want to sound sarcastic or argue. Oh well. Maybe visiting a few other countries before re-applying is a good idea. I've already made plans to go to Thailand, Singapore and Malaysia starting next month.

[skulled]

(06-29-2011 05:02 AM)Sonny Forelli Wrote:  

One thing that really stood out in the interview as the possible reason for rejection was the question "have you ever traveled to any other countries before", and the question "why are you going now?" was repeated several times, and when I said "this is the first time" she said that I am repeating myself and not answering the question as to why this is the first time I am going outside India. I wanted to say that we all start sometime, but instead I just shut up and looked pathetic because I didn't want to sound sarcastic or argue. Oh well. Maybe visiting a few other countries before re-applying is a good idea. I've already made plans to go to Thailand, Singapore and Malaysia starting next month.

Since you seem to have done pretty much everything else fine, I am guessing this broke the deal.

Having a few visas on the passport is always a bonus point for many number of reasons. It is sort of "the other countries deemed this person fine and he didn't do anything iffy when he got the visa and visited the country" so there really shouldn't be a problem giving him a visa kind of thing.

I know that sounds rather silly, but well it does play in to the picture. Your first visa is always going to be harder, since they will dig more the first time. This is true both in the case of first visa to the specific country, as well as your first visa ever.

I am not sure how you could have handled the whole "you have never traveled anywhere else before, why now" since I don't know the exact details about your background and purpose of visit. But it definitely seems like if you had handled this question well, you shouldn't have faced a rejection.

If you already have plans of visiting other countries, I would suggest you do that and then apply again if you need to. A few stamps on your passport are going to help out even if only in a small way.

[MiXX]

Doing the same thing and expecting a different result is a sign of insanity. -- Albert Einstein

[oldnemesis]

(06-29-2011 12:32 AM)skulled Wrote:  

- Do not argue with them under any cost!!

And do not get angry or nervous. Stay calm.
As a personal example, I was applying for a US non-immigrant (business) visa back in Moscow some time ago, while my Green Card was processing. Now this is the situation when your immigration intent is obvious, and the Consulate is just supposed to reject you. I had all the paperwork in place, dressed up professionally, and stood my ground. After two five minute interviews (the first ended up the interviewer calling the Vice Consul as he wasn't sure how to proceed) it ended up like that:

Vice Consul: You know, we cannot issue you a visitor visa because you have Green Card processing, meaning you have immigration intent.
Me: (very calm) Of course I knew you cannot. That's exactly what I told my boss.
Vice Consul: You told him that? And what did he said?
Me: He insisted I go, and let you guys decide. And I thought, why not? I would only lose time, but the company pays me salary for that, and they paid for the application as well. Hopefully once you stamp the rejection, he won't bother me anymore.
Vice Consul: (after thinking and talking to someone at the back) We will issue you the visa.

I believe my behavior and attitude played the most important role here.

[oldnemesis]

(06-29-2011 05:02 AM)Sonny Forelli Wrote:  

I had actually applied for a business and tourism visa (b1/b2) with the stated aim of attending the Ad Tech conference in San Francisco.

But before you said your intent was to have a cross-country trip.

Note, while the category is the same (B1/B2), your trip must have a specific purpose. You must be very clear with what you want to do. And the paperwork you provide must support it.

Now regarding attending the conference, did you have a valid explanation why do you need to attend it this year? It is kinda far away, and expensive. Have you attended similar conferences in past, maybe in closer locations?

Quote:

I did not do this. Even though I had two business cards of people working within the US embassy, I did not present them because I never got the chance to. I am not sure if that would have improved my chances of getting the visa or just made me look shadier/a name dropper.

I doubt it would help you.

Quote:

One thing that really stood out in the interview as the possible reason for rejection was the question "have you ever traveled to any other countries before", and the question "why are you going now?" was repeated several times, and when I said "this is the first time" she said that I am repeating myself and not answering the question as to why this is the first time I am going outside India.

Indeed. What she was asking is that this is your first international travel, and you go right there so far away? Not in Thailand, Singapore, China, Vietnam, but straight to US? It indeed looks suspicious, as most people tend to start small (have you ever been on a two 10-hour flights? it sucks).

This is where a person familiar with Consulate would help - by pointing out the issues which most likely your application gonna trigger, and verifying that you have a valid explanation for them, which would not trigger even more issues.