[Hairz]

Don't know what to think of this really. Met this 19 year old ukrainian hottie off tinder. I'd say she's a 7.5 but has barely any boobs. We tarted chatting and met the same evening.

The date goes alright, she asks about me a lot about myself and jokes at my pathetic jokes all the time. A lot of eye contact and she plays with her hair quite a lot at some point. When I take off my zipped sweater I can see her staring a my shirt, like sooooo obvious.

Then we leave the venue and I get her under the arm, she looks surprised but complies. She's tired so wants to go home. I tell her I can drop her off if she wants and I she's saying if I want to. I told her its upto her. Then shes like "whatever is easier for you" snd I reply "it would be easier for me to go home and you get taxi but I'll drop you off".

We go to the car but first I get my car keys and show her my place briefly. I walk her to the car still under the arm. We drive to hers and before she leaves we hug and we kiss on the cheek, then other cheek and I kiss her lips on 3rd kiss. She giggles. Then she tries to leave and the doors are locked - I drive with locked doors by default so I make a joke "I'm not letting you out" as I click unlock button. She laughs and leaves the car and says bye.

After 10min she sends me "really enjoyed the night thank you )" and I reply with "me too, good night". She replies with "good night, sweet dreams)".

I can kinda tell that I'm pussy pedestrialising this girl in my mind. She's off on holidays in Miami in few days so I asked her day after "hey would you like to meet again before you leave to Miami?". She replies that she's going tomorrow night with 3 dots(I thought it was the following morning) and says we can meet once she's back if I still want to. I reply with shitty joke "yeah if you still got those child bearing hips, remember I want my football team". We joked the night prior about having 20 kids and when she asked why so many I replied that I want a football team, reserves and cheerleaders.

She's like "this joke was weird yday" meaning the 20kid one. I replied "but you were giggling". She's like "yeah I didn't know what to say". I went full retard and asked "was I creepy anywhere else?" She replies that in the car when we kissed. I told her "wow ok, i thought you enjoyed it" and she said "not on a first date". Then I lost the frame and said "ok if you think im a creep then don't talk to me" to which she said "blab blah". Then I told her that it's disrespectful and just wished her happy trip.

She replies with "OK but it was just a joke". I replied with "wtfff you're strange". No reply from her.

Obviously I burned that bridge already. My question is wtf was this shit with being creepy in the first case? Some Ukrainian specific shit test? And she claimed I'm a creep for like 5-6 msg exchanges so it's not like "oh you're a creep" and then haha joking. How do you react to that?

[reino341]

> I can kinda tell that I'm pussy pedestrialising this girl in my mind.

Yeah, me too.

> How do you react to that?

You don't.

You creeped her out with needy behavior. Don't respond to shit tests with logic. "but you were giggling".

I recommend reading this ebook series, especially the second and third books: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0...sp=sharing

[Hairz]

I never had anything like that happen. And obviously if she thought I was a creep she wouldn't talk to me after the date.

Guess next time I'll just a&a or ignore the remark.

[cascadecombo]

Quote:

My question is wtf was this shit with being creepy in the first case?

According to you, you put the word creepy in her mouth. She just said weird, and the joke was, not you.

If I were you I would have ignored, or said something like "dang, that's too bad". You overreacted to her saying anything negative, it wasn't lost until you asked her about being a creep. You basically asked her her to consider you in that light, and from there you were sealing your own fate.

[coverdoc]

(11-24-2015 03:23 AM)Hairz Wrote:  

(story)

After 10min she sends me "really enjoyed the night thank you )" and I reply with "me too, good night". She replies with "good night, sweet dreams)".

I can kinda tell that I'm pussy pedestrialising this girl in my mind. She's off on holidays in Miami in few days so I asked her day after "hey would you like to meet again before you leave to Miami?". She replies that she's going tomorrow night with 3 dots(I thought it was the following morning) and says we can meet once she's back if I still want to. I reply with shitty joke "yeah if you still got those child bearing hips, remember I want my football team". We joked the night prior about having 20 kids and when she asked why so many I replied that I want a football team, reserves and cheerleaders.

She's like "this joke was weird yday" meaning the 20kid one. I replied "but you were giggling". She's like "yeah I didn't know what to say". I went full retard and asked "was I creepy anywhere else?" She replies that in the car when we kissed. I told her "wow ok, i thought you enjoyed it" and she said "not on a first date". Then I lost the frame and said "ok if you think im a creep then don't talk to me" to which she said "blab blah". Then I told her that it's disrespectful and just wished her happy trip.

She replies with "OK but it was just a joke". I replied with "wtfff you're strange". No reply from her.

Obviously I burned that bridge already. My question is wtf was this shit with being creepy in the first case? Some Ukrainian specific shit test? And she claimed I'm a creep for like 5-6 msg exchanges so it's not like "oh you're a creep" and then haha joking. How do you react to that?

Dude you just had the classic case of talking "texting" yourself out some pussy. If she said you're weird, so fucking what. Do you know how many girls call me weird, strange, crazy, angry etc. I let that female talk roll off my shoulders.

You could have/should have easily flipped it with witty banter like :"Yeah I get weird around weird girls " or "yeah sorry my weird little cousin from Ukraine stole my phone, he didn't take his skittles yesterday" Anything playful works.
At this point stop taking things chicks say so serious, they just talk.
Don't contact her for like a week then send a witty restart text. Search the forum for text game.

-CD

[Hairz]

@Coverdoc

Yeah I'll restart when she's back on Tuesday and see what's up. Got some more dates this week so its gonna clear my mind in that regard.

The real funny thing is that as soon as I sent those messages I knew I fucked up but still kept sending them anyway hoping I would get an upper hand again? Like I know the game in theory but in practice I still fall for the beta things.

I think it might be done. I'll try next week anyway. It's not like I got anything to lose.
Damn.

[High Hanging Fruit]

Ouch! Painful to read, but it was a good, detailed write-up. Here is what I would have done differently.

(11-24-2015 03:23 AM)Hairz Wrote:  

A lot of eye contact and she plays with her hair quite a lot at some point. When I take off my zipped sweater I can see her staring a my shirt, like sooooo obvious.

Good start. Sound like she’s attracted to you.

(11-24-2015 03:23 AM)Hairz Wrote:  

she asks about me a lot about myself and jokes at my pathetic jokes all the time.

Making too many jokes can come across as try-hard. Also, answering lots of questions very candidly about yourself kills any attractive element of mystery about you. As Paul Janka (the master of getting laid on a first date) says, "Revelations before the flood causes the creek to run dry."

(11-24-2015 03:23 AM)Hairz Wrote:  

Then we leave the venue and I get her under the arm, she looks surprised but complies.

I'm guessing you didn't touch her at any point before this, which is why it was surprising to her. You should try to touch her very frequently (not necessarily in a sexual way) throughout the date.

(11-24-2015 03:23 AM)Hairz Wrote:  

She's tired so wants to go home. I tell her I can drop her off if she wants and I she's saying if I want to. I told her its upto her. Then shes like "whatever is easier for you" snd I reply "it would be easier for me to go home and you get taxi but I'll drop you off".

You made it sound like you’re going out of your way to help her, which is beta provider mode. I imagine that lots of players would just call her a taxi. However, I’d just say “I’ll drop you off” because that way she’d probably be comfortable staying round at your house for a bit.

(11-24-2015 03:23 AM)Hairz Wrote:  

We go to the car but first I get my car keys and show her my place briefly. I walk her to the car still under the arm.

This was a good move, but I think you should have at least attempted to close the deal when you got to yours. Offer her a drink, stick an apple pie in the oven, show her an “awesome song”. Anything to keep her there while you escalate and attempt to close. But instead, you just left.

(11-24-2015 03:23 AM)Hairz Wrote:  

We drive to hers and before she leaves we hug and we kiss on the cheek, then other cheek and I kiss her lips on 3rd kiss. She giggles.

Again, I would have pushed for a lot more than a peck on the cheek and lips. For me, it should have at least been a passionate kiss at this point.

(11-24-2015 03:23 AM)Hairz Wrote:  

says we can meet once she's back if I still want to. I reply with shitty joke "yeah if you still got those child bearing hips, remember I want my football team". We joked the night prior about having 20 kids and when she asked why so many I replied that I want a football team, reserves and cheerleaders.

Call-back humor can be good, but it just seemed try-hard here and, even though it’s a joke, sounds like you’re way more invested in the situation than she is. However, it’s definitely not a killer. What kills you is your failing her shit test...

(11-24-2015 03:23 AM)Hairz Wrote:  

She's like "this joke was weird yday" meaning the 20kid one. I replied "but you were giggling".

At this point, you completely lost frame and failed her shit test by justifying your actions.

(11-24-2015 03:23 AM)Hairz Wrote:  

She's like "yeah I didn't know what to say". I went full retard and asked "was I creepy anywhere else?" She replies that in the car when we kissed. I told her "wow ok, i thought you enjoyed it" and she said "not on a first date". Then I lost the frame and said "ok if you think im a creep then don't talk to me" to which she said "blab blah". Then I told her that it's disrespectful and just wished her happy trip.

She replies with "OK but it was just a joke". I replied with "wtfff you're strange". No reply from her.

This was a nuclear bomb. At least you know how terrible it was. Asking her if you were creepy was a horrible mistake, as was getting pissed off at her responses. But as I said before, you actually lost frame before this point when you said "but you were giggling".

[Vaun]

you cant be 100% perfect. I just lost frame on a girl, but lesson learned, I should have had more fun with it and slowed the fuck down. It happens but its something to learn from.

[Hairz]

"Good start. Sound like she’s attracted to you."
Yep I could tell she was attracted. I mean my game on tinder is shit so any girls I pull is mostly on my looks.

"Making too many jokes can come across as try-hard. Also, answering lots of questions very candidly about yourself kills any attractive element of mystery about you. As Paul Janka (the master of getting laid on a first date) says, "Revelations before the flood causes the creek to run dry."

I didn't joke all the time. I said something completely not funny and she'd laugh at it. With questions I tended to be elusive or tried to deflect some of them. Obviously you can't be doing that all the time. I tried to combat it by talking about random stuff, after few questions I'd divert the topic to her or dancing or whatever.

"I'm guessing you didn't touch her at any point before this, which is why it was surprising to her. You should try to touch her very frequently (not necessarily in a sexual way) throughout the date."

The sitting space was kind of crappy. We had sort of cauch and were sat at 90 degrees. I touched her hand few times and knew when I was making a point. I'd say maybe 8-10 times over 3h date. The place was bad to escalate, should've bounced like roosh advised in his book.

"You made it sound like you’re going out of your way to help her, which is beta provider mode. I imagine that lots of players would just call her a taxi. However, I’d just say “I’ll drop you off” because that way she’d probably be comfortable staying round at your house for a bit."

Yeah I think it came off a bit weak. When she said what's best for you I said "I'll l drop you off".

"This was a good move, but I think you should have at least attempted to close the deal when you got to yours. Offer her a drink, stick an apple pie in the oven, show her an “awesome song”. Anything to keep her there while you escalate and attempt to close. But instead, you just left."

My place was ort of messy as I just moved in so no apple pie or anything. Shit logistics. I wasn't planning on dropping her off anyway. But I do agree that I should've stayed in for say 10min and "get warm" together.

"Again, I would have pushed for a lot more than a peck on the cheek and lips. For me, it should have at least been a passionate kiss at this point."

Yeah here I think I could weasel out a nice kiss or 2 more but wouldn't go for makeout just before her going.


Yeah with all else my frame collapsed. I should've been like what you said "I only get weird around weird girls". Asking for more ideas why she wouldn't like me is like standing on a mine. I think she got a little upset over my me getting mad at her.

Well see with the reset msg. Nothing to lose at this point. At least she didn't block me so well see.

There are few red flags tho that I noticed as soon as she said rhem:
1. She dances alot in pair with a guy. Recently his gf told him to stop dancing with her. Same thing happened with 2nd guy after few sessions. She must come across as "steal your bf" girl. She doesn't know what's the problem with these girls. I personally see why theyd be jealous.

2. She's off to Miami with male friend. He got her the ticket. I kinda went like "oh so how do you guys know each other" and she went on about how they know each other 2 years and been planning to go forever. Dunno what sort of friend buys you a ticket from uk to Miami.

3. She seems to take things for granted. I Paid for her drink, she had card out but I just paid. I could see her watching me and my reaction whether I was gonna ask her to pay or not. She didn't thank me for the drink.

[Dr. Howard]

Well OP, take the loss, learn and move on. Also, if you need help de-pedestalizing this girl let me help

Quote:

2. She's off to Miami with male friend. He got her the ticket. I kinda went like "oh so how do you guys know each other" and she went on about how they know each other 2 years and been planning to go forever. Dunno what sort of friend buys you a ticket from uk to Miami.

She's off to Miami to get fucked by at least her male friend if not a few other high game american miami residents. Why the else would a girl to go Miami from another country?

Consider yourself lucky that you didn't expose yourself to some sort of american dick diseases by banging her raw upon her return.

next.

[Tigre]

(11-24-2015 03:23 AM)Hairz Wrote:  

She's like "this joke was weird yday" meaning the 20kid one. I replied "but you were giggling". She's like "yeah I didn't know what to say". I went full retard and asked "was I creepy anywhere else?" She replies that in the car when we kissed. I told her "wow ok, i thought you enjoyed it" and she said "not on a first date". Then I lost the frame and said "ok if you think im a creep then don't talk to me" to which she said "blab blah". Then I told her that it's disrespectful and just wished her happy trip.

She replies with "OK but it was just a joke". I replied with "wtfff you're strange". No reply from her.

Obviously I burned that bridge already. My question is wtf was this shit with being creepy in the first case? Some Ukrainian specific shit test? And she claimed I'm a creep for like 5-6 msg exchanges so it's not like "oh you're a creep" and then haha joking. How do you react to that?

Yeah, you let that shit unravel fast.

There are ways to twist that around so that you can halt the uncomfortable part and get it back to something good.

There's a moment where she is qualifying you and you keep asking more "did you like me?" type questions. Then you get resentful when she mentions something that was honestly just a minor negative for her.

You can wrap that up by saying "haha ok got it". Then continue on "from my point of view, i liked your vibe and i thought it was a fun time"

In other words, you start qualifying her, but in a positive way. That would get it back on track.

Also, you were kind of denying her reality and trying to paint her as being wrong. Just for feeling a certain way about something. In that example, you come across as more secure if you accept her reality and take it in your stride.

[coverdoc]

Yah I'm with Dr. Howard by the way bro. She is definitely going to Miami to get fucked and stuff her throat with cock.

-CD

[PapayaTapper]

(11-24-2015 03:23 AM)Hairz Wrote:  

We go to the car but first I get my car keys and show her my place briefly. I walk her to the car still under the arm. We drive to hers and before she leaves we hug and we kiss on the cheek, then other cheek and I kiss her lips on 3rd kiss. She giggles. Then she tries to leave and the doors are locked - I drive with locked doors by default so I make a joke "I'm not letting you out" as I click unlock button. She laughs and leaves the car and says bye.

Next time you get a girl back to your place that says she's tired just say "Hey if you're tired, why don't we just watch a movie/ have a drink/ listen to some music here. You can stay here as long as you don't get any funny ideas". Sometimes girls just want to get fucked ...if you don't fuck it up

I don't know how many times, the next dat I've heard "OMG! I can't believe we did, This never happens...I never do this"...

Good news is you've come to the right place to learn how to not fuck it up.

[Delta]

I agree with the consensus that your "but you were giggling" response is what killed it. Sounds like something I would've come up with in my pre-enlightened days. The ideal response, in my opinion, would be along the lines of:

"not as weird as you"
"you're weirder"
"you're weird"
Etc. You get the gist.

It's playful, it deflects any negativity away from you, it teases her, and most importantly, it doesn't sound like you give a fuck. More to know for next time.

[Ruivinho]

What do you think she was attempting to gain from that shit test?

[DarkTriad]

#1 - You didn't try to close the deal when she was at your place. 2nd dates are not gimmees anymore, you've got to Always Be Closing or you're going to get lost in the shuffle. She was interested, what are the odds she still has the same fascination after some rich dude wines her dines her, and makes her do ass to mouth in Miami? You're a Tinder hookup, what makes you different from the thousand other guys that are going to swipe right before you have a chance to see her again?

#2 - Experienced players can make funny jokes about having kids with a girl, because it's obvious they're not taking it seriously. If you have the tiniest smidgen of Herb or romantic left inside you, this is going to be repellent to her, because on some level you're going to actually have the desire to have a family with her and treat her with respect.

[KevCapitalist]

" I told her its upto her. Then shes like "whatever is easier for you" snd I reply "it would be easier for me to go home and you get taxi but I'll drop you off"."

You're the man, direction is your job.

[Euphoria]

(03-04-2016 08:06 PM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

1- You're a Tinder hookup, what makes you different from the thousand other guys that are going to swipe right before you have a chance to see her again?

2- If you have the tiniest smidgen of Herb or romantic left inside you, this is going to be repellent to her, because on some level you're going to actually have the desire to have a family with her and treat her with respect.

Dude, you are genius.

[XPQ22]

She's a Tinder girl. So, axioms:

1) Did she like you enough to make out with you and jerk you off in your car on the first date? No.

2) Did she make out with some other player and jerk him off in his car on the first date? Almost assuredly yes.

So why worry about any of it. A girl from an online date that plays out the way you described maybe deserves a one-text restart a few days later. That's about it.

[RatInTheWoods]

Too much text and talk I reckon is where you went wrong.

Just say "I'm taking you for a drink tomorrow night before you leave" and escalate on that date.

And hit her up for a solid date upon her return. If she says no, then ghost here. If shes into you she will want to see you, if not then you lost nothing.

All the idle multi text messages does is talk you out of pussy.

[DaveR]

(11-24-2015 03:23 AM)Hairz Wrote:  

ukrainian

Read Bang Ukraine. It's all in the book.