[WestIndianArchie]

"I'm not going to get married because she'll talk half my stuff and the kids"

vs

"Abundance"

Shouldn't the abundance mentality extend to LTR's. I.E, if I get "frivorced", there's so much out there that I don't need to worry?

WIA

[HankMoody]

Alimony... where you continue to pay your ex-wife after the ink has dried on the divorce papers.

Yeah, I guess you can take the approach that you'll make more money so what's it matter, but what is the point of imposing such a one sided contract on yourself?

Sure, I could go blow every cent I have in the bank on hookers, blow, and travel, but that would probably be counterproductive to my long term goals.

Same thing with marriage. It's a heavily one sided contract that can have serious ramifications on your finances, with little upside.

In modern society, you can get bangs without being married. You can live with a chick without being married. You can have kids without being married. You can share finances without being married. You can even hold yourself out as "partners" without being married.

You can get married if you want, but why? Marriage is just a horrible legal contract that invites the government into your home if it goes wrong. No thanks.

[the Thing]

It should. Being a player for me was an extension of abundance mentality applying to LTRs anyway-my relationships got shorter and shorter and after a while they weren't LTRs anymore.

A prenup will easily take care of her taking half the stuff, but why would you need it when you can apply shit testing principles to screen out the sluts and gold diggers.

Unwanted pregnancies are what I'm afraid of.

[DaveR]

Good thread.

(11-14-2015 03:07 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

"Abundance"

Shouldn't the abundance mentality extend to LTR's. I.E, if I get "frivorced", there's so much out there that I don't need to worry?

I'm trying to get to that point. The main issues I'm working through at the moment are:
- financial risk. Trusts and prenuptial agreements may be solid today, but the trend is not positive at all, especially if you're planning to spend any time in the Anglosphere (problems with Common law)
- I'm from a "no divorce" religion - marriage is permanent
- children are a 15-20-year commitment and during that time it's difficult to have a location-independent lifestyle.

[DaveR]

(11-14-2015 03:19 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

You can live with a chick without being married. You can have kids without being married. You can share finances without being married. You can even hold yourself out as "partners" without being married.

The trend is for those things to be considered prima facie evidence of marriage by "habit and repute". Even if you didn't sign a contract, the courts can deem that you were married.

[General Stalin]

(11-14-2015 03:07 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

"I'm not going to get married because she'll talk half my stuff and the kids"

vs

"Abundance"

Shouldn't the abundance mentality extend to LTR's. I.E, if I get "frivorced", there's so much out there that I don't need to worry?

WIA

Can't say having an "abundance mentality" about your own offspring is quite the right outlook to have. Also having to pay out alimony for indefinite amount of time is awful ROI - even people with untold amount of assets and true abundance that none of us will ever know would hate to squander it on bad investments. If one truly has "abundance" then why would the thought of marriage even enter your mind to begin with? The idea would be that there will always be chicks out there you can shack up with and enjoy so why settle on one.

Not totally sure how abstinence from marriage and abundance mentality are relative.

[DaveR]

(11-15-2015 10:22 AM)General Stalin Wrote:  

Can't say having an "abundance mentality" about your own offspring is quite the right outlook to have. Also having to pay out alimony for indefinite amount of time is awful ROI - even people with untold amount of assets and true abundance that none of us will ever know would hate to squander it on bad investments. If one truly has "abundance" then why would the thought of marriage even enter your mind to begin with? The idea would be that there will always be chicks out there you can shack up with and enjoy so why settle on one.

Not totally sure how abstinence from marriage and abundance mentality are relative.

I think WIA is probably talking about abundance mentality (as a way to keep control of the frame), not actual abundance.

[Rawmeo]

One word: prenup.

Everybody can change. Once you've found a perfect chick to marry, make a solid prenup. You never know if she will go rogue or find a Beta Joe to replace you. Make sure that if she leaves, she takes her stuff and nothing more. You don't need to share your business / house / etc. with an ex.

[WestIndianArchie]

(11-15-2015 11:53 AM)Rawmeo Wrote:  

One word: prenup.

Everybody can change. Once you've found a perfect chick to marry, make a solid prenup. You never know if she will go rogue or find a Beta Joe to replace you. Make sure that if she leaves, she takes her stuff and nothing more. You don't need to share your business / house / etc. with an ex.

So you'd prefer the situation where a chick and your kid lives with significantly less security and comfort?

That sounds awfully punitive, and very much not in the "abundance mentality" mindset.

Most of the LTR/Marriage conversation sounds like a bunch of guys running scared, afraid that the first marriage is the one and only shot... Rather than take the shot, they'd prefer to forego the entire institution altogether.

Seems to be the opposite of game teachings.

WIA

[Virtus]

Marry up

[General Mayhem]

(11-15-2015 12:17 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(11-15-2015 11:53 AM)Rawmeo Wrote:  

One word: prenup.

Everybody can change. Once you've found a perfect chick to marry, make a solid prenup. You never know if she will go rogue or find a Beta Joe to replace you. Make sure that if she leaves, she takes her stuff and nothing more. You don't need to share your business / house / etc. with an ex.

So you'd prefer the situation where a chick and your kid lives with significantly less security and comfort?

That sounds awfully punitive, and very much not in the "abundance mentality" mindset.

Most of the LTR/Marriage conversation sounds like a bunch of guys running scared, afraid that the first marriage is the one and only shot... Rather than take the shot, they'd prefer to forego the entire institution altogether.

Seems to be the opposite of game teachings.

WIA

Could you expand on this WIA?

Seems people are getting confused by this discussion.

I don't understand why you wouldn't want to have a prenub. That seems like the only way to have any sort of power over your assets in the case of a divorce.

I think what your saying is that you shouldn't use a prenub to kick a bitch out on the street with nothing and abandon the situation.

[General Stalin]

Well the next question is what do you see as a benefit in getting married? If the >50% risk of getting divorce raped and having to fork over your assets and a large portion of your income for an indefinite amount of time does ward you off from the idea of it, then what is the upside?

[WestIndianArchie]

(11-15-2015 04:11 PM)General Mayhem Wrote:  

(11-15-2015 12:17 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(11-15-2015 11:53 AM)Rawmeo Wrote:  

One word: prenup.

Everybody can change. Once you've found a perfect chick to marry, make a solid prenup. You never know if she will go rogue or find a Beta Joe to replace you. Make sure that if she leaves, she takes her stuff and nothing more. You don't need to share your business / house / etc. with an ex.

So you'd prefer the situation where a chick and your kid lives with significantly less security and comfort?

That sounds awfully punitive, and very much not in the "abundance mentality" mindset.

Most of the LTR/Marriage conversation sounds like a bunch of guys running scared, afraid that the first marriage is the one and only shot... Rather than take the shot, they'd prefer to forego the entire institution altogether.

Seems to be the opposite of game teachings.

WIA

Could you expand on this WIA?

Seems people are getting confused by this discussion.

I don't understand why you wouldn't want to have a prenub. That seems like the only way to have any sort of power over your assets in the case of a divorce.

I think what your saying is that you shouldn't use a prenub to kick a bitch out on the street with nothing and abandon the situation.

There's really not much to it.

The LTR/Marriage discussion is presumably from guys with game and have their shit together.

But many of them focus primarily on the downside to such an extent that many would prefer to not even entertain the idea at all.

Abundance is just that.

The likelihood of an able bodied chick getting alimony until she dies is not likely in today's climate. If anything guys are on the hook for child support, which typically ends at 18 (provided that they paid all 18 years).

But the whole take on LTR's in general is beyond negative. The LTR is a black hole from whence nothing escapes.

WIA

[General Stalin]

Well LTR and marriage are two very different things.

I can date a girl for a long period of time (LTR) and then break up and nothing matters. If we get the law involved and are legally and financially bound by contract and need lawyers and courts in the event that it ends (which, by today's statistics, is more likely than not) then we are talking a whole different ball game.

Sure, there is "abundance" in the fact that you can re-marry as many times as you want and there are other fish in sea so to speak, but I don't think that is accurate to say that is why lots of manosphere dudes are proponents of not getting married. Indeed, a lot of us here are totally down for LTR's and keeping a quality girl around in our lives longer term, but the idea of marriage is a huge legal and financial risk that is recognized as being very probable but easily avoidable so why take it.

Again I ask, what is the beneifit of marriage? There is no actual "risk" to an off-the-books long term relationship. I have dated girls for years on end and things stopped working out for one or both of us and we ended it and it that was that. I can't hate on that arrangement.

[Sp5]

At age 58, I am seriously thinking of settling down with what I think is a quality woman 15 years younger. It's because we have great chemistry and rapport, including a shared sense of humor, she's intelligent, apparently obsessed with me. I find myself getting bored with the others, while she's nice to have around and travel with.

It's getting to be not worth the trouble to go hunting. I could keep hunting for someone better, but time is running out for me. Marriage would be necessary because of visa/mobility issues.

Kids are not in the cards with this woman, it appears her eggs are used up. There will be a prenup. Of course, prenups are not 100% secure, but it establishes a frame for the relationship, just in case she think she can cash in on my assets (not likely in a short term marriage with no kids anyways, even without a prenup), the prenup will always be on her mind. I will own any house we live in, in my own name.

Abundance mentality does play a role, it will be clear to her that if she changes for the worse (gets fat and bitchy) she could be replaced. She knows I've run through a score of women in short relationships in the last couple of years.

I'd like to know what WIA thinks of this, I respect his opinions a lot.

[Easy_C]

Best way I can put it is that an "abundance mentality" doesn't mean you throw risk management out the window. The way I see it is that with an actual abundance mentality there's no reason for you to settle for a high risk relationship.

[WestIndianArchie]

(11-15-2015 05:02 PM)Sp5 Wrote:  

At age 58, I am seriously thinking of settling down with what I think is a quality woman 15 years younger. It's because we have great chemistry and rapport, including a shared sense of humor, she's intelligent, apparently obsessed with me. I find myself getting bored with the others, while she's nice to have around and travel with.

It's getting to be not worth the trouble to go hunting. I could keep hunting for someone better, but time is running out for me. Marriage would be necessary because of visa/mobility issues.

Kids are not in the cards with this woman, it appears her eggs are used up. There will be a prenup. Of course, prenups are not 100% secure, but it establishes a frame for the relationship, just in case she think she can cash in on my assets (not likely in a short term marriage with no kids anyways, even without a prenup), the prenup will always be on her mind. I will own any house we live in, in my own name.

Abundance mentality does play a role, it will be clear to her that if she changes for the worse (gets fat and bitchy) she could be replaced. She knows I've run through a score of women in short relationships in the last couple of years.

I'd like to know what WIA thinks of this, I respect his opinions a lot.

I can't really give you any guidance, but having an abundance mentality is not about trying to get a girl to have competition anxiety.

Abundance Mentality, at least as I see it, is knowing that you can go out and do it again, whatever it is. I'll let a chick think that she's my only reason for living. That's going on in her mind. That's not what's going on in mine.

As for using a pre-nup to instill some fear in her, that's like setting the rules of engagement at the beginning of a relationship. It sounds nice and logical, and a chick will just nod along....but chicks change their minds, they conveniently forget, they try to coax, urge, and manipulate.

It's who they are.

It might not even be cold and calculating master plan. Chicks will just wake up one morning and just not be in love with you. Now that her feelings have changed, it's time to go to war. Now you gotta scrounge up the money to defend your pre-nup.

It was signed under duress
Under undue influence.

Even if you're 100% right, you still need to get a lawyer. (kaching!)

Settling down with a chick, I'm not against it. I think the harder part is finding someone you want to spend that much time with, not so much how to wall off your assets.

WIA

[XXL]

(11-14-2015 03:07 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

"I'm not going to get married because she'll talk half my stuff and the kids"

vs

"Abundance"

Shouldn't the abundance mentality extend to LTR's. I.E, if I get "frivorced", there's so much out there that I don't need to worry?

WIA

Yeah, the whole point of game is to have choice in women, whether it's already having girls to choose from or abundance potential aka being able to manufacture that choice by taking initiative. That's how abundance extend to LTR, traveling to new places, rebuilding your life, etc. But that's obvious and well known fact you already know about.

So what's your point?

[worldwidetraveler]

(11-15-2015 12:17 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

So you'd prefer the situation where a chick and your kid lives with significantly less security and comfort?

That sounds awfully punitive, and very much not in the "abundance mentality" mindset.

Most of the LTR/Marriage conversation sounds like a bunch of guys running scared, afraid that the first marriage is the one and only shot... Rather than take the shot, they'd prefer to forego the entire institution altogether.

Seems to be the opposite of game teachings.

WIA

Yep, guys think they will marry a stay at home mom to make them yummy sandwiches and take care of their children only to be left to their own devices if the marriage were to end.

I don't get the rationale. If they are that worried about losing half, they need to be marrying professional women that are in the same league or higher.

They don't want that, though. They want someone to give up their career and take care of little Sammy.

Then bitch about fairness when they have to pay up.

It's not much different to guys complaining about sluts only to complain it takes 3 or 4 dates to get sex.

Most of the marriage stuff is based on fear. It's as if most want to get married but are afraid of what may happen. The game has changed and if people want to get married and protect themselves they just need to adapt.

Marry when you are older. Marry after you make your fortune. Marry someone who makes the same salary as you. Marry overseas and stay overseas.

The big thing is not to allow fear of loss keep you from getting what you want. That is where WIA's abundance comes in. If you lose it, that doesn't mean you can't get it later.

[samsamsam]

Make your preparations the best you can. After that just react accordingly. I am in gonna get married some day with a prenup camp. I just need to avoid getting overly worried. Life is to be lived. Worrying about assets that you can't take with you when you die should not be over done. Life is a journey and a set of experiences. Go and have the best experiences you can. And a good prenup

[trawler]

(11-15-2015 05:17 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Settling down with a chick, I'm not against it. I think the harder part is finding someone you want to spend that much time with, not so much how to wall off your assets.

WIA

This would be an interesting thread. How to actually find decent girls. We all know how to find sluts, but it's seriously hard to find amazing girls. I've met one in my life.

[Apollo21]

Who is the leader in a Marriage? I would say the man...however most divorces result
from a lack of leadership and/or good judgement. That is to say..you either marry the wrong woman(judgement)
or you ruin your marriage by making so many mistakes that it's impossible to recover or bounce back.

It's kind of ridiculous when you think about it....marriage is less risky than investing in stocks..which are completely speculative...
however more people easily have an abundance mentality when it comes to stocks...i.e even if you lose your shirt on a string of
investments...you know that if you want to see any gains on the next investment then you'll need another hundred grand....

Along with that abundance mentality, they take responsibility for choosing the stock...and don't make obvious mistakes
while managing their portfolios...if the stock just drops overnight, then there's really not much you can do.

However as long as the stock performs within a certain margin...and you're willing to keep the stock over the long term,
even during the ups and downs, most people don't seem to have a problem with that...

By that comparison, marriage should be a walk in the park.

[jariel]

I understand that our community is kind of a small world, and we do have some guys who have their financial cards in order, but there are so many broke ass dudes out there that I find the whole "she can take half" shit to not even be applicable given that their alleged half is half of nothing.

I don't know where everybody lives, but in big cities where costs are high, people are coupling up more often than not to get by. It's very difficult for one to have a nice lifestyle in a big city on one income, and that's true for males and females.

[Ingocnito]

(11-15-2015 11:53 AM)Rawmeo Wrote:  

One word: prenup.

Everybody can change. Once you've found a perfect chick to marry, make a solid prenup. You never know if she will go rogue or find a Beta Joe to replace you. Make sure that if she leaves, she takes her stuff and nothing more. You don't need to share your business / house / etc. with an ex.

Regardless of how bullet proof pre-nups are supposed to be, I've heard too many cases where a high-dollar lawyer slashed through it, and nailed the guy to the wall for alimony and 50%+ split anyways.

I have a rather unique story of being once-engaged.

I was engaged to a woman I had my only child to date with. She is very, very wealthy. Family $$$. Her grandfather - daddy warbucks himself - drafted a prenup upon our decision to marry. I was never with her for the $$, and their true net worth wasn't revealed to me until after she was pregnant and I proposed. At first I thought;"Bonus, turns out I knocked up some loaded bitch who hid it pretty well." I knew they had $$, but nothing like this.

While we never set a wedding date, and I frankly learned to despise the control they wielded with their $$$ over everyone it touched, my retort was to also then propose my own prenup. What's fair is fair. Touche bitch!

She has oodles of $$ coming once she hit apx 40yo via irrevocable trust funds that ratchet up with time based on concise accomplishments of the recipient (the control).

So my prenup was to say that if any business I started with my own effort and capital unrelated to their family took off, it would be solely mine should we split. The result? Grandfather to granddaughter:"Why wouldn't he want to share that $$ with you since you'd be together, it makes no sense." Interesting.. why do the rich get richer?

My thoughts:"Because you fucking demonic jackass, I'm too wise to believe some bitch I accidentally knocked up (your granddaughter), and agreed to "try" a life with for the kid's sake and posterity (before knowing she'd be totally spoiled and began acting that way soon after, which killed the entire relationship and since fucked with my child's life badly via $$ control), would NOT take me for everything I make in my life ON TOP of the cash piles you'll be giving her, and taught her to worship.

Needless to say, the split was by far the correct move in hindsight. While various components of my life have been quite rocky since the split 4.5 years ago, the pussy I've gotten, and the reduced, but still present freedom away from that situation and dysfunctional family has been a life saver.

[BassPlayaYo]

IMO marriage is a contract and like any contract it's in your best interest to fully understand what you are signing your name to and only sign if the contract is in your best interest. It doesn't matter if you don't have anything, if you're broke, you still have to look out for your own interest.