[Vincent Chase]

The game concept of the Point of No Return is fresh in the mind at the moment having experienced it a number of times recently.

You bring a girl home after a couple of drinks. You both have a great time with each other. You escalate, start kissing her, touching her breasts and pussy over her clothes. Then she says something like "it's too soon" or she makes some excuse and leaves. Up until that point she gave the impression she had a great time, she'll kiss you passionately. She may even tell you she wants to see you again.

You never hear from her again. She will go back home and rationalise that because nothing happened and she left in a hurry that it just wasn't meant to be and come up with all sorts of bullshit reasons that you're not the right guy for her. Even if she lives with 8 flatmates while you are a solid successful guy with a great place and social capital. Meanwhile she'll get text messages from other guys and forget about you by morning. She will also think that if she meets you again you will have to have sex rather than it being "natural" and she's not a slut.

Yet let's say you don't invite her to your place she may see you again. I would argue that this is reducing in chance by the day as social media traps the minds of millions of women.

I would argue that for the majority of online dating it would be foolish to go for anything else but SNLs for social circle game you have some more leeway. What do you suggest?

[HankMoody]

Fire up the Playstation.

[MTLer]

Maybe it was about the process itself, got to take the time to set the mood, and warm her up properly with a long and sensual makeout session. Some girls are harder to start, like my old motorcycle was.

[kaotic]

(10-27-2015 05:10 PM)Vincent Chase Wrote:  

The game concept of the Point of No Return is fresh in the mind at the moment having experienced it a number of times recently.

You bring a girl home after a couple of drinks. You both have a great time with each other. You escalate, start kissing her, touching her breasts and pussy over her clothes. Then she says something like "it's too soon" or she makes some excuse and leaves. Up until that point she gave the impression she had a great time, she'll kiss you passionately. She may even tell you she wants to see you again.

Sounds like a SMV, Frame, and game problem.

Reading her body language, baiting her, push pull.

LMR is also frustrating but it can be overcome. Sometimes you have to freeze a woman out, react differently when she say's too soon, or makes an excuse.

You sometimes will get girls who bounce, it happens.

Quote:

You never hear from her again. She will go back home and rationalise that because nothing happened and she left in a hurry that it just wasn't meant to be and come up with all sorts of bullshit reasons that you're not the right guy for her. Even if she lives with 8 flatmates while you are a solid successful guy with a great place and social capital. Meanwhile she'll get text messages from other guys and forget about you by morning. She will also think that if she meets you again you will have to have sex rather than it being "natural" and she's not a slut.

Hamsters are strong on the wheel but a man with the right game can kick her off it.

Quote:

Yet let's say you don't invite her to your place she may see you again. I would argue that this is reducing in chance by the day as social media traps the minds of millions of women.

I would argue that for the majority of online dating it would be foolish to go for anything else but SNLs for social circle game you have some more leeway. What do you suggest?

I don't think social media reduces your chances of banging a girls the second time she comes around.

I've had to wait a third date to bang a few times (of course I'm busy with other girls).

I don't think it's foolish at all to think more can come with online dating.

The important thing is: Do these women you meet fit your PROFILE of LTR women, mini LTR, etc.

I say this because my main LTR of almost 2 years, I met off tinder. Three mini LTR's (while with my LTR) I also got off online dating.

I've met some pretty cool chicks that I banged. It's all about knowing when to go for the bang and when to play it cool.


I think this is more a personal problem for you when it comes to online dating.

-Frame
-Game
-Possibly Logistics
-When to Push
-Scaring the cat
-Etc.

I remind you, I'm personally attacking you here, just giving you some constructive criticism in regards to online dating.

Now I agree, online seems to have had a downhill trend this past year. But it doesn't mean you can find some gems when you go digging.

[WestIndianArchie]

(10-27-2015 05:10 PM)Vincent Chase Wrote:  

I would argue that for the majority of online dating it would be foolish to go for anything else but SNLs for social circle game you have some more leeway. What do you suggest?

I sound like a broken record, but when a chick goes cold, you're better off trying to pull the next set of hotties.

Most guys run into a chick
- not answering their texts when they were answering before
- agreeing to dates and flaking (for whatever reason)
- going on dates and not responding to attempts to make a second one
- fucking but not wanting to fuck all the time, or anymore
- slowly getting bored with the FB relationship,

The answer to all of these has been to TALK TO OTHER CHICKS.

There are obvious benefits on your current broad when you're actively talking to new broads - but whether or not her competition anxiety kicks in is irrelevant. New pussy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Old Pussy.

Even if you're trying to lock down this chick in particular, you will be better off if you remain devastatingly attractive to OTHER women. Whatever this chick looks like, there are dozens of men in her life that are waiting for the chance to put her face down ass up. So her game stays sharp, while you dull your own trying to cut through her bullshit.

Never that.

Don't focus on leads that have gone cold.

Cold leads should go to mass text status

- "hey u. Wanna *insert picture of netflix and bottle of wine*"
And then BLIND cc every chick that has gone cold on you.

Bitches that ain't thought about you in months might suddenly be interested. Scoop up those bangs like a Scrooge McFuck picking up pennies.

You never know why a chick that loves you on Friday is bored on Saturday. Period, family drama, ex comes back into the picture, herpes break out, she got tickets to the Western Canadian LARP fest... who knows.

You should stop caring.

When a chick isn't rocking with you, it's not a reflection of YOU.

If you stop fucking with a chick, it's not like the pussy went sour all of a sudden. (plenty of dudes are going to want to fuck her after you're done).

You've got to separate your ego from this shit if you want to be GREAT.

WIA

[redbeard]

& a relevant read:

http://www.goodlookingloser.com/more/arc...bers-game/

[CynicalContrarian]

Back massages.

Not many girls out there who don't appreciate a good back massage.
Then escalate to an all over body massage.

[LA Savage]

I know a chick like the one you described. Her name was opportunity and you missed it. Oh well that's how life works. But I have good news for you. There's another train full of opportunities approaching your way soon. The question is are you going to catch it or miss it because you're still stuck in the past?

If you're going to be good at playing these games with women you have to remember some key rules:

Always Be Replacing Not Chasing These Hoes
Always Have An Abundance Mentality
Bitches Ain't Shit But Hoes And Tricks
Always Be Closing
It's Not Your Pussy Just Your Turn
She Will Always have guys that are willing to fuck her and do things for her at a moments notice
Girls run off of emotions not logic
Always Be Willing to Walk Away and Lose Her at any moment
Do not change yourself for any girl
Do Not Make Permanent Decisions Based Off of Temporary Feelings
Girls lie all the time so keep your guard up
Always very evidence of your interactions with girls you plan on doing something major with
Choose girls that will supplement your life not diminish it

That's all I got for now since I'm posting it from my phone. Just remember to not dwell on the past and keep it moving. Keep approach, dating, and hooking up with other girls as you want to constantly be improving your skills and your life overall.

[XXL]

Always lead but keep in mind...

- If you have the opportunity to escalate but not sure if she'll respond well, tease - e.g. run your hand up her thigh and then pull it away. 2 steps forward 1 step back.

- Take girls hands with one of yours. When you're escalating and feel her tense up slightly [by her hands starting to move] - pull away as if doing a tease

- If a girl reacts badly then completely withdraw attention. She will feel it. DO NOT do it as an obvious reaction to a rejection - makes you look butthurt. When it looks like she's not ready just break off. Then, try again but don't start where you stopped. Start all over again.

- Break it off just before the ‘point of no return’ if you notice she's few moments away from discomfort [eyes don't lie, watch out for that "thinking look" like she's analyzing whether she should or not].

- 2 steps forward 1 steps back - You always want to be leading but no further than she's comfortable with. If you push further she will resist and feel unnecessary discomfort. Escalate just enough so that she doesn't feel it's wrong.

[Courage Reborn]

The "point of no return" may seem like a strange phenomenon. But it doesn't actually exist. Except in the imagination.

In the imagination, a chick who "almost" fucked you must have liked you, right? Wrong. In reality, she was never that into you. That's not a dig on OP. On the contrary, it shows he's putting in work doing all the right things to get so far with a luke warm prospect in the first place.

Hence why "next", as usual, is the correct & only answer.

[XXL]

(10-28-2015 07:07 PM)Courage Reborn Wrote:  

In the imagination, a chick who "almost" fucked you must have liked you, right? Wrong. In reality, she was never that into you.

Completely disagree.

Why?

Women in general have issues with sexuality intimacy and sex. They want it and don't want it at the same time. They want that looooove yet are afraid of so many things at once it creates discomfort which is the main reason of their resistance.

There's a lot going on between "I like him" and "let's do it now". Your job as a man is to take away discomfort. Lack of discomfort is when loooove happens. Discomfort can be a number of things...
- She doesn't want to feel like a slut
- She doesn't want it to be a cheap one night stand
- She doesn't trust you enough
- etc

That's why it's key, I mean KEY, to have that in mind from the start. When you get to know her [her reality and personality and issues] you need to recognize who she is and what she needs to feel at ease to get intimate with you.

This "if she was into you FOR REAAAL she would do it" thing just an armchair speculation, massive oversimplification and straight up fallacy. When a girl consciously puts herself in a situation where she's alone in a private place with a guy she doesn't know that much who has romantic intent toward her then she knows sex is waiting to happen. yes, she IS into him BUT she still wants it to be "right" so to speak. It's not like once she alone with you it automatically equals sex. No.

I heard plenty of stories of girls consciously saying NO to the guy only to check how he would react to rejection then. Most failed cause they got all butthurt [cause they thought "if she was into me should would want to sleep with me"] and frustrated which killed the mood and it was done. yes, girls were into them but maybe wanted to take it slower. Big deal, night is young, what's the rush?

[Vincent Chase]

Here's a new video on the subject.

[General Stalin]

^ TL;DW: Don't be so pushy and eager. Instead just be cool and casual.

I think a lot of problems dudes (more specifically dudes in this community who are newer) have is that they drink too much koolade and take the "always escalate" and "when in doubt, whip it out" shit too seriously and too far. Girls do appreciate the boldness and confidence of a man who is straightforward about his wants and desires, but you have to act like you've been there before and most girls don't want to feel like you are just using them.

Plain and simple, girls are not turned on or intrigued by unabashed sexual eagerness. they want to feel somewhat comfortable with you with a carefree happy vibe. Working up a sexual urgency type of vibe will make her anxious, and also may make you seem thirsty. At least, this is just my perspective.

Patience is a future, and always remember to have a good time with women aside from just trying to get your dick inside of them.

EDIT: WIA dropping gold in here as usual. Everyone should read his post above.

[Amigoish]

(03-30-2017 04:51 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

^ TL;DW: Don't be so pushy and eager. Instead just be cool and casual.

I think a lot of problems dudes (more specifically dudes in this community who are newer) have is that they drink too much koolade and take the "always escalate" and "when in doubt, whip it out" shit too seriously and too far. Girls do appreciate the boldness and confidence of a man who is straightforward about his wants and desires, but you have to act like you've been there before and most girls don't want to feel like you are just using them.

Plain and simple, girls are not turned on or intrigued by unabashed sexual eagerness. they want to feel somewhat comfortable with you with a carefree happy vibe. Working up a sexual urgency type of vibe will make her anxious, and also may make you seem thirsty. At least, this is just my perspective.

Patience is a future, and always remember to have a good time with women aside from just trying to get your dick inside of them.

EDIT: WIA dropping gold in here as usual. Everyone should read his post above.

Agreed. Thinking back I have made a lot of mistakes by being too pushy and eager for the makeout. That worked for some girls but for many didn't. I believe being more grounded and cool is the breaking point from beginner to intermediate game level I would say.

Last night I had a second date with a girl I hadn't even kissed before. I decided to hold on the makeout and be more relaxed about an possible sexual outcome, yet showing her that I was interested. I didn't kiss her at the bar (around 60 min) and after strong LMR I convinced her to go to my place to drink an Israeli wine. I think my relaxed and cool vibe played a decisive role in her decision to go home with me. I was balls deep in her half an hour later.

[RatInTheWoods]

A lot of great thoughts in here.

Mine is OP there are different themes in your post.

1) if she is into you or not - don't waste time chasing a chick who just isn't into you or returning the interest - that's going nowhere. NEXT
2) Don't obsess with the single night lay - MOST chicks are three date Kates, if you next after not getting the SNL you are wasting good lays for impatience.

Don't mix these two up, although it CAN be hard working out which camp she is in.

Also great advice in here about not overdoing or "wrongdoing" the escalation. Yes its important and your job, but do not appear desperate or awkward about it, nor butthurt if she holds off for a few dates.

[RatInTheWoods]

And a lot of it all comes down to the relative SMV difference.

If she is higher then she won't be interested in you.
If she is lower she will bang first or second date.

If you are about equal, she will make you wait and work for it....

[Rawmeo]

I can understand that sometimes notches just don't happen, such as logistics problem. But when a girl starts to take her clothes off, that's the point of no return for me. If she backs off, she's walking home. Otherwise I had situations where we went to eat something and didn't go to my place, that's fine too.

I'd say that the "SMV difference" thing is true half of the time. In a case where your "Perceived SMV" is far above the girl's, she'll be freaked out and try to make you wait. I'll give you a very straight example. Last month, I used the Porsche to pick up a girl at 7-eleven where she was working - the car is worth more than she'll make in all her life. I thought it was an easy deal, but the LMR was so intense that I ended up kicking her out. She apologized after by text, and my response was a very straight "you know that we're not from the same class - so if you don't mind, things will work like I do. Next time, no refusal, for any reason. You're lucky I even give you my time.". She started writing novels of things about feelings and "getting attached", and my response was still a very bland "my conditions stand, so unless you want to come for that, don't bother me". It worked but there was minor LMR next time.

On the other hand, I had "lower" girls give me very good notches - I'd say that the "office worker" class is the one that is the easiest. However I don't usually next after SNL, unless she did something very stupid. My rules, in general are:

1) Single moms: Maximum second-night lay. No exceptions. I push for the SNL, and if it doesn't work, I make it clear that she is expected to put out next time.
2) "Normal" girls: I have a 3-date rule, but can extend to 4 depending on the circumstances. Again, after 3 dates with no bang, I make it clear that next time it's straight to my place. If she needs to "get attached" before, she had the chance to do so in the first 3 dates.
3) Virgins: No game at all unless I am looking for a LTR - I wouldn't like my wife to have been deflowered by a random player, so I don't burn other people's wives. Fucking her is, in most cases, terminating a family's bloodline if she's the only child.

I also abide by "ethics" which states that respect must go both ways. When a girl gives me a good lay, I never ghost her - I know how to be thankful and give her "bonuses" like restaurant meals, etc. but if a girl passes the point of no return without a notch, she goes straight to the bin, unless I get a promise from her to come straight to my place and finish the job.

[Leonard D Neubache]

Any of you guys ever play the "grand tour" game when you get her home?

You make a joke out of showing her your place (nice or shitty as it might be) finishing with the bedroom.

This gives you an opportunity to "brush past her" through multiple doorways and hallways since you're leading one way and doubling back in the other direction. You create body contact and pretend it's non-sexual, which drives them nuts. It also gives the impression that you expect that they're going to be there more than once and they'll need to know where everything is (whether you're planning to P+D them or not). It creates a follow/lead dynamic as well.

After a minute or two you're at the bedroom which is "the end of the tour". The inference will be obvious, particularly if it's the nicest room in the house.

I've only done this a couple of times. The first was by accident and the second to confirm it worked.

[torridon747]

I'll have to give that a shot. Did you escalate right then or there or wait?

I always give girls the tour just to make them feel more comfortable and as an excuse to do Kino (lead them by the hand) and test compliance ("let me give you the tour"). Though I am a little sheepish about the bedroom sometimes I'll have to stop that.

[cosworth]

I just run the " it would be cool to have sex with you , but its also cool if we don't , i still want to hang out with you" line .
Its a difficult balancing act.

As you; like me also live in London its a fucked up dating market here. A girl whos a 7 thinks shes a 9 purely down to all the online beta attention she gets. London has a LOT of thirsty dudes.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/hom...80725.html

It really is a fucking depressing dating market here , especially in the 25-35 age bracket.

[Leonard D Neubache]

(03-31-2017 10:05 PM)Eugenics Wrote:  

I'll have to give that a shot. Did you escalate right then or there or wait?

I always give girls the tour just to make them feel more comfortable and as an excuse to do Kino (lead them by the hand) and test compliance ("let me give you the tour"). Though I am a little sheepish about the bedroom sometimes I'll have to stop that.

In both cases they made it pretty clear that they weren't leaving without getting fucked, but they were fairly well ready to go. It helped that my bedroom really was the nicest room in the house. Shame I ended up with a layabout room-mate not long after. Never got a chance to perfect that little stunt.

[Player_1337]

In my experience, while there are women who ghosted when sex didn't go down after we crossed the supposed 'point of no return'-- there have also been chicks who came back around (and we fucked on the second or third meet).

[BetaNoMore]

Thank you all for this discussion. Helped me break my retarded dry spell last night.

[Leonard D Neubache]

^How hot was the retard?

[Rawmeo]

(03-31-2017 09:55 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Any of you guys ever play the "grand tour" game when you get her home?

You make a joke out of showing her your place (nice or shitty as it might be) finishing with the bedroom.

This gives you an opportunity to "brush past her" through multiple doorways and hallways since you're leading one way and doubling back in the other direction. You create body contact and pretend it's non-sexual, which drives them nuts. It also gives the impression that you expect that they're going to be there more than once and they'll need to know where everything is (whether you're planning to P+D them or not). It creates a follow/lead dynamic as well.

After a minute or two you're at the bedroom which is "the end of the tour". The inference will be obvious, particularly if it's the nicest room in the house.

I've only done this a couple of times. The first was by accident and the second to confirm it worked.

I totally agree. I did that a couple of times and had good results as well. If you're living in something more than a studio apartment, it's a good technique.