I have been lurking on the forum for a couple months trying to learn and absorb as much as possible before posting. Recently, I had a chance to get my hands dirty attempting to use what I've learned from the forum. It left me confused but convinced that most of you know what you are talking about ![[Image: icon_razz.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/new/icon_razz.gif)
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A little bit of background -- This girl and I worked together as grad students before I left school and moved to a nearby city. She and I were flirty with good chemistry, but I was a pussy and in a LTR so I never did anything more than tease her about her 'man problems' (read: orbiters).
I hadn't spoken with her in about a year when I asked her out for drinks recently, which I did on a whim because I was visiting other friends in the area. She was very receptive, and the date started off well with us gossiping about mutual friends, her recent breakup (which had happened the previous month), grad-lab drama -- typical bullshit. In the past, I feel like my mistakes at seducing women have usually happened when I am verbally direct too quickly, so during the date I tried to communicate my interest using eye-contact, touching, vocal tone, etc. She responded well to my kino, and a couple hours into the date I felt confident that she was DTF.
We switched venues to a bar with dancing, which I thought would allow a more natural progression before going back to her apartment. Here's where things went sideways. While we were dancing, she started to be coy and avoided my repeated attempts to escalate into more provocative dance (ie. grinding), but still being touchy and friendly. I got frustrated with this push-pull because I didn't know how to proceed from there, which I think was when I lost frame and control of the situation. I couldn't decide if I just should go for the make-out first and then dance, or the other way around.
Instead of making a decision, I just ordered another two shots for each of us, hoping that getting her drunker would it make it easier for me, which come back to bite me in the ass later. The liquor didn't work. Like the pussy-on-rehab that I am, I asked, "Why won't you dance with me?". She responded, "Do you actually want to kiss me?". I didn't answer, and initiated the make out. That goes well, but I feel strange kissing her on the side of the dance floor of the bar (I don't know what is appropriate here, I am usually not into PDA?), so I told her "We should leave".
This is where losing frame kills me because she responded with "You have to convince me first", and I had no idea what to do except for repeating the make-out/feel awkward/ask to leave/'convince me' cycle another 4 or 5 times. It's fucking awful, I feel myself be drained of dignity the whole time. Luckily, I am not invested in her at all emotionally/sexually (she's a 6.5), and eventually I told her that I was leaving by myself.
She decided to leave with me, but the entire way to her apartment she talked about how "she doesn't understand why I am attracted to her now" (??) and keeps asking what has caused my 'sudden interest', while saying at the same time "after we have sex, I am worried you will fall for me". I teased her throughout this, but by this time I couldn't regain the ground I had lost. We end up making out and groping each other on her bed for 10-15 minutes before she vomited from too much alcohol and the night ended.
I felt like it was a successful night for me because I got to practice my game consciously, in full red-pill wisdom, for the first time ever, but I would like to know how I can escalate in situations like this without becoming a bitch and losing my frame in the date. Even if we had fucked, her slut-shaming, second-guessing mind was on in full force and it would have been a lot less enjoyable.
.A little bit of background -- This girl and I worked together as grad students before I left school and moved to a nearby city. She and I were flirty with good chemistry, but I was a pussy and in a LTR so I never did anything more than tease her about her 'man problems' (read: orbiters).
I hadn't spoken with her in about a year when I asked her out for drinks recently, which I did on a whim because I was visiting other friends in the area. She was very receptive, and the date started off well with us gossiping about mutual friends, her recent breakup (which had happened the previous month), grad-lab drama -- typical bullshit. In the past, I feel like my mistakes at seducing women have usually happened when I am verbally direct too quickly, so during the date I tried to communicate my interest using eye-contact, touching, vocal tone, etc. She responded well to my kino, and a couple hours into the date I felt confident that she was DTF.
We switched venues to a bar with dancing, which I thought would allow a more natural progression before going back to her apartment. Here's where things went sideways. While we were dancing, she started to be coy and avoided my repeated attempts to escalate into more provocative dance (ie. grinding), but still being touchy and friendly. I got frustrated with this push-pull because I didn't know how to proceed from there, which I think was when I lost frame and control of the situation. I couldn't decide if I just should go for the make-out first and then dance, or the other way around.
Instead of making a decision, I just ordered another two shots for each of us, hoping that getting her drunker would it make it easier for me, which come back to bite me in the ass later. The liquor didn't work. Like the pussy-on-rehab that I am, I asked, "Why won't you dance with me?". She responded, "Do you actually want to kiss me?". I didn't answer, and initiated the make out. That goes well, but I feel strange kissing her on the side of the dance floor of the bar (I don't know what is appropriate here, I am usually not into PDA?), so I told her "We should leave".
This is where losing frame kills me because she responded with "You have to convince me first", and I had no idea what to do except for repeating the make-out/feel awkward/ask to leave/'convince me' cycle another 4 or 5 times. It's fucking awful, I feel myself be drained of dignity the whole time. Luckily, I am not invested in her at all emotionally/sexually (she's a 6.5), and eventually I told her that I was leaving by myself.
She decided to leave with me, but the entire way to her apartment she talked about how "she doesn't understand why I am attracted to her now" (??) and keeps asking what has caused my 'sudden interest', while saying at the same time "after we have sex, I am worried you will fall for me". I teased her throughout this, but by this time I couldn't regain the ground I had lost. We end up making out and groping each other on her bed for 10-15 minutes before she vomited from too much alcohol and the night ended.
I felt like it was a successful night for me because I got to practice my game consciously, in full red-pill wisdom, for the first time ever, but I would like to know how I can escalate in situations like this without becoming a bitch and losing my frame in the date. Even if we had fucked, her slut-shaming, second-guessing mind was on in full force and it would have been a lot less enjoyable.
![[Image: banana.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/new/banana.gif)
...In this case I think that was just a minor mistake because she was into it. But keep it in mind for future reference. If you think of making out as the first part of the bang (I do) why would start that somewhere you cant finish it? 