[armenia4ever]

Note this was originally an email I sent to Quintus to gauge his thoughts and now I have expanded on it and invite feedback from RVF)

This post is a long one.

I was reading through Roosh's dialogue with Quintus concerning Neo-Masculinity, and a thought struck me that I am going to try to effectively and concisely flush out. round it out.


Most of your average Red Pill types - and even those who embrace the principles of Neo-Masculinity - have no intention of every having kids, let alone getting married.

I believe this to be a serious problem. This is not without cause of course. The system - specifically in the west - and its laws via the family courts in particular make children a scary proposition.

The advent of no fault divorce decades back - which has destroyed marriage just like the conservatives at the time predicted it would, is another reason to probably avoid marriage.

However, consider what is needed to build a society that is enthused and enriched by Neo-Masculine worldview and values, as well as ensuring they are passed on to the next generation.

It is the passing of the torch to the next generation, and the generation after that which we can see broke down in the late 19th century an on. Essentially, it is a multi-generational plan of action, because the damage done over the last 100+ years will take just as many years, if not more to reverse.

Building A Family

In order to properly raise up strong children, we will need that strong family structure which we know is key to raising up kids with a neo-masculine worldview - which is a key principle of it.

This of course assumes that any of us have the intention of ever having kids. Many conservatives have more kids then your liberal types - yes I'd include hispanics and asians as socially conservative. However, because of the public school system and most institutes of higher learning (Colleges), their kids are corrupted, indoctrinated, and essentially re-educated from age 5 and up with a marxist social justice way of thinking.

In fact, I would argue that this is true even in conservative places like Texas, due to the entire public educational system being deliberately set up this way.



How will any families be created that are purposefully protected from the indoctrination of the public school system and that of mainstream culture if so many of those who endorse TRP as well as Neo-Masculine ideals avoid starting a family, having kids, let alone considering marriage which is the necessary framework to raise said family? (Yes I'm aware there are some significant differences, but their is overlap people who endorse sometimes one or both of them. At least NM is focused on the overall cultural problem instead of just game.)

This all hinges on one idea that keeps coming to my mind; multi-generational strategy.

I'm not sure if you know what the "quiverfull" movement is that is popular among some conservative Christian homeschoolers, but it advocates basically outbreeding the opposition and homeschooling to make sure a solid worldview foundation is passed on to one's children and then on to their children's children. I won't link to a Gawker article on it that was rightfully scared of the implications of being outbred.

Now, I stress homeschooling in particular as essential because the worldview promoted to kids at an extremely young age by the public schools is down right antithetical and hostile to NeoMasculinity, let alone Christianity and any sense of traditionalism.

This is demonstrated by what has happened to my generation - millenials - and the whole coddling and pampered idea of everyone being a winner. (Self-esteem was promoted instead of self-compassion)

I don't understand how we can do this if we don't have kids, let alone wives. How will society and our culture ever recover?

A Quick Overview Of My Manosphere Exposure

I stumbled upon the manosphere over a year ago, lost my virginity at 25, slept with 10 girls in about a year and a half, and realized several months ago that I needed something more. I started looking for wife material.

If you recall Maverick Traveler's article, "Are You Being Gamed by Game?" that summed up my thoughts precisely.

I still wanted a wife and a family at some point and if I threw that away by sticking to plates, short LTR, ect it would never happen.

I had my kind of epiphany - and I wasn't even at it that long in comparison - similar to Rooshs where he mentioned how he thought he would be 50 and still approaching girls in the mall and asking them where the petshop was.

Rooshs journey to realizing there had to be more took him quite a long journey - so to speak- but it finally resulted in him and Quintus formulating the ideas of neo-masculinity because they realized there had to be more to life then just game and spinning plates if there was ever to be a cultural and systemic recovery.

Luckily, I had his ephinany within a year and half of discovering game and TRP. I'll turn 27 this month.

Me and my soon to be wife - unicorn, 19, non-existent partner count, traditional, supportive, wants to homeschool, not prioritizing career over family, ect - plan to out-breed these SJW types and raise up children with both a strong NeoMasculine and Christian worldview.

However, I'm pretty damn sure that we are among the few who plan that - both as millennials and those who have been exposed to Neo-Masculine worldview in general who are planning on having kids. (We already have one on the way.)

The Expense and Difficulty of Raising a Family

Another issue I would raise is that of the damaging ideas of the 50s in propagating the concept of mono family homes as not just an expectation, but something one should strive for. Everyone needs that white picket fence and three-bedroom suburban home in the cultisack.

Just how realistic is this though - assuming it's actually a bad idea?

Consider that the economy will never again allow for a single-bread winner in one family to be sufficient for financial stability.

Both parents will often have to work and it delays them from being able to start a family at a young and ripe age and instead delay it to often far in their later 30s, assuming that financial stability is accomplished.

What some of the larger hispanic families in the US have gotten right is the idea of several family members, often including grandparents, living in one large house.

Employing the core concept of that idea would allow for one's family and extended family to help raise kids, homeschool them, ensure strong family bonds and ties, important values, as well allowing financial stability and almost what I would suggest is a kind of "family" version of Aaron Clarey's Minimalism. If we want to have available "resources", they would have to be focused primarily on distribution between family members and close friends.

However, almost everyone I know - including most parents and grandparents - don't advocate an idea of a multi-family house. Who wants to live in a cramped house with several other people when you can have an apartment all to yourself? The benefit of the former are often ignored for what I would suggest is the declining benefits of the latter.

Even the idea of families living in the same neighborhood, let alone street is essentially an idea of the past and dismissed as such - which unfortunately would be the only other alternative I can think of to a "multi-family" house.

So I'm doing the "test-run" of this in my own life.

Currently, I'm planning on moving me and my soon to be wife into my parent's home where my mother - who no longer works and is a stay at home wife - will devote much time to babysitting and caring for children while I work.

I'm in the trades and my wife will continue her pre-med requirements in school on her career path to become a trauma surgeon. My father is also willing to devote much time toward helping care for any children - out of the many me and my girl hope to make - as well as helping to homeschool them so we can raise feminine daughters and masculine sons. My father believes in creating a family legacy and grandchildren are the raising of them are what he considers his primary goal in life.

For example, that homeschooling would involve a firm foundation in the classics ranging from Meditations, Aristotle and Pliny to Don Quixote, The Canterbury Tales, and many of the early works of English literature. Both Pantheon and 37 are filled with such stories, tales, and lessons that would be fundamental in their education, as well as the Trivium approach of Grammar, Logic, Rhetoric. (In particular, I believe Vox Day was right when he said Rhetoric is probably the most significant way of battling our opponents.)

Essentially, she won't have to worry about picking a career over family, nor will I as we will be able to have both. However, I can't see any other way for us or for others to accomplish a similar situation unless they live in a "multi-family" house.

We can outbreed those who have and are destroying Western Civilization.

We can enable the next generation through a firm establishment in a Neo-Masculine worldview from a young age. Our eventual victory would be one simply of demographics playing out over time. We have kids, they don't. (This is one of my more facetious reasons for why I encourage most liberal types to have abortions. It makes outbreeding them far easier.)

However, we will lose our kids in the public school system where the SJWs and progressives know they can get our kids at a young age, unless one's kids are homeschooled.

I don't think many RP and NeoMasculinists realize the danger of having their kids in a public school, assuming they have any and begin a family. The amount of time they spend with your kids compared to the time you get with them simply isn't enough to undo the damage being wrought in their classrooms and in the activities and groups that are deliberately subverting their minds.

For my particular situation - Quintus advised me that my plan is a good one - considering the extended family situation that will soon be a reality for me.

However for the rest of you, I don't know if this is necessarily viable. However, I considered it a good idea to share these thoughts in hope of quality feedback.

Questions? Comments?

Death threats?

[Phoenix]

I think it is a hindrance, just because our standards are higher. We're more enlightened than the common man, we can see the raw deals he can't, and we know of the alternatives. Unfortunately that doesn't change the fact that accepting a raw deal is easier, and that going after the acceptable deal is ultimately going to be hard. Probably very hard.

How did you find your unicorn, by the way? All the American women I've met or 'witnessed' overseas have been the furthest from 'marriage material' that is possible, so you must have pulled off something special.

[The Beast1]

No in fact, it makes me want to have kids to spread the message far and wide!

Though i'll probably be cursed with know-it-all leftist children who will be fooled by their mistakes and become conservatives.

[Engineer]

Excellent ideas, plan, and writeup. Some quick comments. Multi family homes can be tough, but they are doable. Even among slightly larger groups with folks who may not even be related by blood. The key is to have shared values, boundaries, and clear expectations. In your case, your parents giving up a lot of their time and energy in exchange for time spent with loved ones, and hopefully an implied social contract that you will care for them beyond when the kids move out. If so is your wife on board with that? You didn't mention her parents, where do they fit in this? How about making those agreements explicit so folks may not be assuming too much. What about free/alone time? When one person wants to be alone at home, or vacation with their spouse how is their role in the organization satisfied.

The big elephant in the room you didn't mention is money. Are you contributing rent? What if one of the breadwinners is injured/out of work for a while. What if one of the net consumers is not happy with how much they get to spend. Who does which chores? Of course you'll work all that out, just more difficult to get consensus among four than between two people.

Excellent plan regarding the outbreeding and home schooling. I wish you the best of luck and request occasional updates.

[Brazilianguy]

Interesting topic.

I have a few questions, though:

1- How to find wife material/unicorn?
In my view, modern culture doesn´t produce these women anymore.

2- How will you protect yourself from the current divorce rape system?
In other words, how will you make sure your wife won´t take advantage of the system to plunder you?

3- Where will you find a support net for neomasculine/traditional values?
Is your family aware of cultural marxism and are they supporting you?

I´m interested in what you have to say, as I would also like to have a family in the future but simply can´t see how this could be done without turning into a wimp or being divorce raped (besides the near impossibility of finding girlfriend/wife material).

[blacknwhitespade]

1) Joining a conservative church circle and 2) moving to a conservative-leaning, off-the-beaten-path location had been 2 simple steps towards surrounding yourself with a support network for masculine/traditional values.

However, public schools all over the USA, urban, rural, red state, blue state, are bending over with the winds of liberalism. I never thought I'd see the day, but I doubt that I'd want to send my kid to just about any public school anywhere in the country at this point. Private schooling is expensive and homeschooling is wayyy easier said than done. Not to mention, there's still an inherent flaw in homeschooled children in that they are isolated from social development/competition, and I've personally seen more than one do a 180 as soon as they got out of the house and onto a university.

Regarding religion: Christian evangelicals are on the defensive in the wake of the LGBT movement, I see them watering down or just remaining silent, either way, their sociopolitical power has seriously eroded and their ability to provide support to families may be eroding as well (they've never done jack for single males btw). Catholics are also in serious jeopardy as well as the Vatican continues to bit-by-bit throw the religion's roots under the bus. Catholics have also long had a serious problem with not being able to support their own masses let alone evangelize. There are other wild card options like the Eastern Orthodox Church or the Mormons, but there are only a handful of them in the country and their demographics and religious subculture make them seem virtually inaccessible to anyone without those roots.

[262]

I'd be interested in updates from the OP as he makes a go of it, his time permitting of course. While I plan on doing something similar outside the West, I think it'd be valuable to see how he protects his family from the degradation that is spreading worldwide.

[ed pluribus unum]

If anything I think it encourages starting a family. Think of the Shakers; they were celibate and only added to their numbers through conversion - see how much of a legacy they left behind (not counting people who think it's a brand of furniture). Same goes for the 'Green' lesbians who get their tubes tied to not add to the population growth that is supposedly killing mother Earth: don't worry, there's plenty of sub-saharan Africans to make up the difference. In the words of Mark Steyn, "the future belongs to those who show up for it." Why not make a positive contribution?

[RatInTheWoods]

I think it's more "family law" in Australia that stops sensible people getting married or having kids.

[Deepdiver]

Just one issue you may wish to consider given the statement "my wife will continue her pre-med requirements in school on her career path to become a trauma surgeon."

Having worked at a major global teaching hospitals complex I dated a number of female MD and PharmD degreed ladies typically in their various unpaid intern rotations prior to a residency or full time position. More easy to game with a decent meal not in the Hospitals cafeteria.

The reality is that when in rotations (unpaid) and residency they are basically paid a subsistence income and once they go into practice they are often faced with a student loans burden of $50K to as much as $250K or more unless they came from wealth and parents paid all the bills or they received massive SJW scholarships which are few and far between and often only pay token costs of a medical education.

I actually did work for a Trauma Surgeon who went on to become Medical CIO and studied bioinformatics systems and received a MS in that IT/IS discipline as well as being a board certified Trauma Surgeon - his life basically revolved around his studies and his surgeries he was in school for more than 15 years well into his mid 30s. Took nearly 10 years to pay off his student loans and did not marry or have his first kid till his mid 40s.

A good solid RP 19 y.o. Christian woman who wants to outbreed the liberal SJWs is a laudable and excellent ideal - being a solid home schooling wife and mother and becoming a trauma surgeon may run into the "having it all syndrome" as both are full time avocations as in 7/24 full time and there are only 24 hours a day.

She may find that it is more realistic to have multiple children and home schooling them to A. Have the Moral Armor to quietly ignore the SJW Liberal Feminist immersion indoctrination in most major medical schools even the Religious Affiliate medical schools and to then B. Carry on the devoted outbreeding Christian family ideal while serving their communities and raising at least a half dozen to dozen more wonderful conservative Christians like them. Of course this basically means no TV or Internet or Video Games seducing the kids into a life of depravity and deviant degeneracy in their formative years and raising the kids in a conservative community where they will be shunned if they turn into bad seeds and just rebel into a life of sex and drugs and rock n roll

I maintain the the best thing a Christian Man can do is to focus on methods to achieve great wealth on shore and off shore and use those funds to guide their Children to lead RP Conservative Christian lives without participating in the Global Elite Banksters cradle to grave overly taxed and lifelong Debt servitude systems.

[MMX2010]

(10-07-2015 11:04 AM)armenia4ever Wrote:  

Questions? Comments?

At the end of the discussion between QC and Roosh, a woman, Andrea, asks:

Quote:

This type of dialogue between men is promising and reassuring. However, the type of game that may appeal to the young neomasculinist indirectly fosters the pump and dump dynamic that leads to the pain felt, later in life, by the mature and experienced man. Wouldn't it be good to guide the young lad by encouraging him to seek sexual fulfillment with a quality over quantity approach early on? I have two young sons and I will expose them to the ideologies presented here but will definately never advocate for them to use game as a tool to use women's bodies as mere objects of pleasure. I will teach them that sex with an emotional or mental connection is what they should pursue to experience genuine ecstasy.

QC and Roosh hinted at this answer, but I want to make it explicit and concise.

Neomasculinity is a response to the negative and unique social conditioning against boys wrought by Leftists. This conditioning has two parts: (1) Because you're a man, you're guilty. And you need to atone for your guilt by dedicating your life to uplifting all women by supporting leftism. I call this first problem Toxic Guilt. (2) Because society is fucked up, you should garner what little happiness you can find through mindless individualistic hobbies. Video games, porn, and even pumps-and-dump are acceptable, but community gatherings to discuss red pill ideas are not.

A young man subject to this social conditioning has two problems: he has a sex drive but no one wants to fuck him AND he has no real community of men to connect to. Because young men have a higher sex drive, their most pressing problem is the lack of sex. And Neomasculinity helps young men cure this problem through Game, through pumps-and-dump with non-wife worthy women.

While no one can predict when the cure for toxic guilt will be finished, we can reliably predict what that finished cure looks like. It looks like boredom and unease that triggers the question, "Is this all there is to life? Can I have something more? Can I leave something behind to my culture, for my legacy?"

The moment this question is asked, Neomasculinity again provides the solution by challenging his boredom with Game and pumps-and-dump into the study of community-uplifting Neomasculine philosophy.

To make perfectly clear: Neomasculinity is not meant to be a coherent helper of women's development. It is meant to be a coherent response to the negative social conditioning wrought by leftism. Telling us that pumps-and-dump "lead to" the pain of a community-disconnected older man is misleading and irrelevant. Misleading, because what leads to the pain of a community disconnected older man is the community destruction wrought by leftism. Irrelevant, because Neomasculinity isn't meant to directly solve women's problems; it's meant to solve men's problems.

[armenia4ever]

So here is an update for all of you:

- I got married to the girl mentioned in this post about two weeks ago on December 4th. (She's 19, and I just turned 27 late in October.) We had a private ceremony in which my Dad's priest married us. (Anglican) We plan on a large wedding reception in July for all friends and family.

- She is now 20 weeks pregnant and we found out yesterday through an ultrasound that its a boy. Personally, I'm thrilled to have a son.

- We are living at my parents. I've repainted a few things, knocked down a wall to make more room in the basement, and put in a door to make sure we have privacy. My father is thinking of shelling out to actually build an extension of some kind for the house. He and my mother are very on board for helping us raise our kids as well as the care, homeschooling, babysitting, ect needed. (I mentioned my idea of " multi-generational mono-family to him as well as my wife and they've really been on board with the idea, my dad especially.)

This is very key, as is the fact that my wife would be willing to live in a tent with me. Her parents never had much money and often lived with relatives, so she's rarely had a room to herself, let alone a large house. Essentially, she's not very materialistic minded.

- My wife already wants plenty of kids, as this pregnancy has her very excited. Surprisingly, she's been very stable emotionally, which I don't expect of most women, specifically pregnant ones at the least. With my parents around to help raise several kids as well as help educate - we plan on homeschooling - we are able to put down some roots.

- We will be taking some initial marriage counseling classes for newlyweds through my Dad's old pastor and reading this book "Reforming Marriage and the author is firm proponent of traditional roles and headship, so I'm happy.

- I got a new job - apartment maintenance - in which it is just me and my boss who is an oldschool trades guy. There is no HR department, my boss has no language filter - I really like this - and he started me off at 15$ an hour. If he likes what I do for the next few months, it will go up to at lest 20$ an hour. (No angry SJW will be able to find out where I work, and my boss would tell them to fuck themselves, if they somehow did.)

My real only trades experience has mostly to do with painting, patching, caulking, and some with taping. Fortunately, he is taking me on as an apprentice, which means I will learn an immense amount ranging from electrical and plumbing to flooring and kitchen/bathroom installation. It's like I'm taking classes for free.


Additional Highlight:

When I got home from work the other day, she had a glass of whiskey waiting and dinner. (My wife already had an extremely high sex drive, so pregnancy has made it even higher.)

[armenia4ever]

(10-07-2015 01:32 PM)Brazilianguy Wrote:  

Interesting topic.

I have a few questions, though:

1- How to find wife material/unicorn?
In my view, modern culture doesn´t produce these women anymore.

2- How will you protect yourself from the current divorce rape system?
In other words, how will you make sure your wife won´t take advantage of the system to plunder you?

3- Where will you find a support net for neomasculine/traditional values?
Is your family aware of cultural marxism and are they supporting you?

I´m interested in what you have to say, as I would also like to have a family in the future but simply can´t see how this could be done without turning into a wimp or being divorce raped (besides the near impossibility of finding girlfriend/wife material).

Regarding 1:

It's tough.

Honestly, you won't be able to find a marriageable girl who wants kids, embraces traditional roles, ect in any city. You have to go somewhat rural. I'd advise looking at girls from large homeschooling families and ones' that have grown up in traditional churches that haven't been infested by feminism.

There are good American women out there. They usually won't be found in a bar, coffee shop, ect.

You have to look for wife material rather then a tinder hookup or just another plate.

I can't emphasize enough that you want a girl who doesn't consider shopping fun, isn't enthused or satisfied with "material possessions" beyond what makes a family content. You want a wife who loves and desires you so much that she wants to go wherever you go and take part in whatever activity you are doing. Of course, she will have some of her own preferences, but you want to make sure she doesn't mind you going out with your buddies, getting close time with other men, ect.

Regarding 2: You are going to have to find a wife who doesn't believe in the concept of divorce or any of the tactics used to try to invoke it, suggest, threaten ect. You will also have to find one that believes in the concept of male headship.

When I mention the idea of headship, you aren't a tyrant who reigns over your wife. You are a leader who makes decisions that the overwhelming majority of the time your wife is enthusiastic to follow.

There is always the possibility of prenupts as well as the fact that if my wife finishes her degree and gets her career path going, she'd make far more money then I would.

Regarding 3:

I'm currently looking at circles of support that are bolstered by strong Christian masculine and wise men, as well as one's who believe in the importance of masculinity. This includes wise older men, as well as a mentor. I believe Quintus was absolutely correct when he emphasized the importance of men having a mentor.

Sometimes this can be found in Churches, but I've noticed alot of your rough and tumble blue collar workers who go out and act as a kind of support for each other through even activities like bowling.

Currently, I'm seeing alot of other men out there who are shipwrecked. I'm very close to starting a group for men to share at least some of the knowledge I have with them as well as offer actual support.

[The Black Knight]

I'm going to spit out some random thoughts:

1. I think RP thinking encourages having children in the end. Neo-masculinity/red pill philosophy is largely focused on being a leader of your immediate world and there few things more gratifying I would imagine than being a leader of a family. Creating a family and growing it into something successful and to be proud of must be one of the pinnacles of satisfaction for a man.

2. NM/RP philosophy also encourages seeing the brutal reality of certain situations. There is no debate: getting married and have kids in America or any other western country is borderline financial and emotional suicide. Hence, why you might feel that NM/RP thinking discourages having a family. It does... in the west at least. As it should, its a raw deal in the vast majority of cases.

3. I'm really puzzled with all this effort to have a very traditional family/structure but you are agreeing to the idea of your wife pursuing medical school to be a trauma surgeon of all things; which is like the most alpha of alphas in the medical community. Do you have any idea the level of dedication it takes to do that? We are talking 13-15+ years of full-time hardcore study and work (undergrad = 4 years, med school = 4 years, surgery residency = 5-7 years). If your wife is going to have lots of kids like you say, her primary job is mother to your children and loyal supportive wife who takes care of your non-work needs. Absolutely no way, no how she can do both. I'm really surprised you even entertained the idea; it seems really incongruent to everything else you have set-up. I would put an end to the concept of her ever attending medical school right now before this gets out of hand.

If you are going to send your wife to any school, send her to a culinary school or cooking classes. She will be cooking for you and your children probably everyday and she should be good at it. That and anything that will help her become a more effective teacher. I thought you were pushing homeschooling?

4. I'm not buying this "good girls can be found in rural areas" argument. Not in America at least. I've lived in rural areas. Plenty of trashy nasty sluts out there in the middle of BFE. Plenty. Even the semi-decent chicks in rural areas are not immune to feminism. This is the internet/smartphone age; living in a rural area might mitigate somethings in some instances but bitches in the middle of nowhere can soak up Jezebel 12 hours a day just as easily as the girl in NYC.

5. I agree with the concept of having multi-generational families that are close knit. I've seen it with foreign families in America and it works when everyone understands their role. I want to do what they do / you are doing and emulate it one day if I do the kids thing.

Big problem with the concept here in America though is some of us come from broken homes and have no support. Some of us who do have semi-OK family, the family members want nothing to do with raising kids. Given how fucked up most American women are today, you can assume most chicks families are fuck-ups as well. Do you want your kids around a beta grandfather all the time being harped at by a bitchy wife; especially as a senior family member they will naturally respect? I rather keep the interaction minimal to avoid corruption.

6. I'm resigned to the fact that I will probably never have kids in the US. If you can overcome the culture hurdles (feminism, public education non-sense, men not respected, etc), you have to be willing to commit financial suicide if it doesn't work out. I can deal with cultural bullshit but I will not risk getting unfairly financially raped into the next dimension when a girl has her Eat, Prey, Fuck moment. I've seen one too many "good girls" in the US pull a 180 when it was convenient for them and they had incentives on top of it to blow up a marriage to be comfortable with taking the risk.

7. Because of #6, unless the legal side of things change to be more fair, I will likely have to leave the US to do the family thing. Perhaps if I amass enough wealth prior to having kids and get a pre-nup, that will be enough protection. But I ain't counting on it. I like the idea of family with the right women but I don't like rigged games; marriage and kids in the US is the ultimate rigged game with devastating consequences if it goes south.

8. I greatly admire your efforts to forge your own path in the face of overwhelming adversity and wish you the best. But I don't think your situation is easily replicated for most of us here in the US.

Finding a legit woman (feminine, no significant mental neurosis's, can cook, attractive, has a personality you gel with) in the US is very difficult by its self, regardless of all other factors. But add:

-Under 23
-Content having kids young
-Content with role as mother and wife and actually understanding what that entails
-Comes from a good family
-Family happily willing to live close and be actively involved on a daily basis

... All the while you need to produce enough income to take care of everyone.

In Latin America, I could see this actually being doable if you got some modest USD money coming in.

In the US? You're lucky if you can just find a legit chick. Really lucky.

[H1N1]

Armenia4ever, wonderful story brother. Congratulations on what you've managed to achieve, and on the impending arrival of your son. I wish you a long and happy married life, may you be an example to us all.

[John Michael Kane]

Solid post. I'd like to add something to the discussion.

John Michael Kane's Datasheet on Wife Hunting

I'm actually in a very similar situation. I've grown up in a traditional household, my parents have been married for over 40 years. Started off my journey into game till I was in my mid-20's and learned a lot about life in general due in part to great masculine mentors and forums like this.

I'm currently 33 and single. I attend multiple conservative Catholic churches in my area, due in part to find a suitable woman to become my wife. I strongly believe that as men we must seek the youngest possible mature woman we can find to be our life partner. The lack of sexual experience and jaded attitude is palpable in virgins or other low experience girls. Any man who has spent time around an innocent fresh-faced young woman with strong morals (near universally coming from great parents with a strong dad for sure) can affirm what I'm getting at.

I live in a semi-rural or rural area, depending upon how you look at it. Yes, there are plenty of trashy types of girls, but I have no problem ignoring them. Remember gentlemen, we only need one to succeed.

In an effort to source a wife, I'm considering the following:

Traveling abroad as well as expanding the search at home.

Suggested locations for traditional women:

Vietnam

I know many, many Vietnamese-Americans. By and large, they are some of the hardest working people I've ever met. Many own their own businesses and the girlfriends and wives often work alongside of their men. Very low rate of divorce and the kids usually excel at school too.

Pros:

• Don't mind an age gap
• Respect of fathers due to traditional society upbringing
• Not as materialistic as some other cultures (China, Russia, etc.)
• Cost of living is very, very affordable if you want to raise kids outside of the West
• Food quality is excellent
  

Cons:

• Might have to worry about green card/citizenship chasers due to income imbalance with West
• English is not widely spoken to the degree it is in other countries
• Cultural differences can be stark, Vietnamese people are very proud of their heritage and language, you have to be willing to "When in Rome..."
• As a man who is white, half a hapa baby could lead to issues with cultural identity, especially it seems with young men, something to consider.
• Internet speeds and other amenities are not as developed as elsewhere, and the communist government while less oppressive than they used to be, still isn't big on dissent
  

Korea

South Korea enjoys an extremely high standard of living, making it a desirable place to live for those used to living in the West. Korean women are some of the best dressed and most feminine women on earth, and there exists a sizable number of conservative Christians within the country.

• The women are fit, when I was in Korea is extremely rare to see fat women, and they will be shamed by their friends if they let themselves go
• Long hair and no tattoos are the norm, plus the vast majority of girls dress modestly, sluts are openly shamed outside of clubs and bars
• Korean women are well-educated and often speak excellent English
• Korea is one of the most homogeneous countries on earth, being 97% Korean, which means low crime rates
• The economy is solid with a variety of markets for those with transferable skills
• Korean girls are largely in it to win it in the sense that relationships are placed at an extremely high social value, girls openly like to show how proud they are of their man to their friends (the good ones will do this a lot)
• Due to the high standard of living, girls won't chase you for a US Passport, they live in a really prosperous country
• Korea has some of the most healthy food in the world
• Internet speeds are super fast and wifi is available everywhere, great for net-based businesses
  

Cons:

• Materialism is something that needs to be filtered for strongly, as especially in the larger metro areas, the girls tend to be label chasers, don't spoil your girl and see if she sticks around, if so, you have a winner
• Plastic surgery is widespread, which can lead to some girls wasting money on it instead of preparing for having a family
• Koreans, especially the older generations aren't always the most welcoming towards strangers, meaning that if your goal is to find a wife, you should be very frank and check with the girl ASAP if the parents would ever be opening to accepting a foreigner as a potential husband
• To truly have access to the largest dating pool and understand the culture, you'll have to learn Korean
• As mentioned with Vietnam, the potential hapa identity issues are a concern, though perhaps slightly less due to some Korean girls looking more "white" than other Asian alternatives
  

Poland

Roosh has written quite a bit about Polish women and with good reason. While there are certainly some that would not make good quality wife material, there are still plenty of them who would. The Polish people are a very proud patriarchal bunch. There's a reason why when the hashtag #womenagainstfeminism came out, there were a LOT of girls from Poland posting how they love men and don't need feminists telling them otherwise. For those in search of a first-generation Polish girl in the United States, you should certainly check out the Chicago area, where there are large pockets of them.

Pros:

• Very traditional country, they are openly speaking out against the Muslim invasion and cultural rot that more Western Europe has not
• Polish girls often have a great sense of humor, I've worked with a lot of first-generation ones and they know how to laugh
• They have good girl game, many Polish girls know how to nail the cooking, cleaning, backrubs, etc that keep a man happy and content
• They are hard working. While quality of life is higher than in parts of Eastern Europe, many Polish people still have to work hard to make ends meet, and as such, the girls are afraid to due their fair share
• Poland is a very Catholic country, ideas like abortion are roundly condemned and many women will without any shame say they aspire to being a mother
  

Cons:

• For the most part, Polish women are easy going, but every once in a while you'll get a very stubborn one, screen for agreeableness early and often
• English can be hit or miss in Poland, you might have to learn some of the language to get access to the right social circles to find your wife
  

USA

While it might come as a surprise to some that I might include the US in the list, I think the case can be made with specific caveats. First and foremost, I agree with armenia4ever that you should start your search in a more rural area. I've lived in megacities and smaller towns, and there are very few good girls in the big cities. Smaller towns (and the smaller the better) tend to have better girls for marriage. Social circles are smaller and slutty chicks reputation gets spread quickly. Girls have more of an incentive to behave. Not to mention, rural girls are more likely to come from larger families. I know some that have ten kids! When you you were raised around kids, you don't see them as foreign, not to mention you learn to be less selfish when you have more brothers and sisters.

As stated above, homeschooling or private schooling is a must, it must be calculated into your overall planning as sending your children to a public school will only undue your hard work.Once homeschooling or private school is complete, the children must be prepared for the workforce either via the trades for the boys, or some more traditional private colleges. Entrepreneurship should be encouraged while still in high school that way the kids can avoid having to work in the soul-killed corporate world. Additionally, any woman that you consider to be your wife should also be encouraged to have home-based businesses for supplemental income. Some examples could be tutoring, music lessons, ebay/amazon/drop-ship, arts and crafts, small farming operations, etc. As for a man's daughters, I strongly advise against sending them to any kind of public university for obvious reasons. As bad as it would be to send your sons there, it will be 100 times worse for a girl. The hookup culture on campus must be avoided at all costs. Give her the Real Talk about not delaying finding a decent man from an early age. Teach her the valuable homemaking skills that will prepare her to be a wife. Encourage her intellectual abilities to support a home-based business or part-time/full-time job so she can save money prior to marriage.


Pros:

• Not chasing you for a US Passport
• Common cultural bonds, no language or communication misunderstandings
• You can visit many different parts of the US in your search for a wife, meaning while there are still very few from an absolute number, there are still pockets of good girls out there
• As suggested by the OP, if you still have parents or extended family that are alive, you can pool time, real estate and monetary resources to make it work
• As you have a variety of ethic groups to choose from, a man can opt for a woman of his own race and not have to worry about bi-racial identity issues
• Land is still affordable in fly-over country, meaning you and your future wife can buy a property and build a tiny home (google it) with minimal or no debt.
  

Cons:

• The American diet is an atrocious thing, any potential wife must be screened for a rejection of simple carb/food like substances, a man must stress that you expect her to stay fit (and you too for that matter) but that your children must be raised by eating properly
• A man has to aware of divorce laws, as they have been discussed many times before, it might not hurt to shelter some physical assets (guns, precious metals, other tangible goods) in an off-site location for the first several years of marriage until the woman proves to be in it for the long-haul
  

I don't have time to complete all the thoughts I have in this one post right now, but here's some reserved space for suggested countries where traditional women might be found:

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[Highlander]

The short answer to the topic of this thread would be YES.
The reason is that red pilled men receive education on the female psychology and nature and know then that concepts like marriages will not hold in a high %-tage without social stigma, pressure and punishments.
Today there are no stigmas anymore regards to not holding on marriages and in fact we living in a slut culture which has been likely never so intense in the whole human history.
All of this gets backed up by the high divorce rates and as we all know "numbers do not lie!"

Hence of course every red pill man with a brain and with discipline will increase his standards in joining LTRs and even more so marriages, what is very good in my opinion and the absolute correct counter strategy towards the environment we are living in.
As a result of this also less red pill men will ever start a family.

Regards to the wife hunting topics, I personally always have following worry:

For sure there currently are still many countries where you can find solid wife material, but the wise man is not only having the correct counter strategy for his current environmental circumstances and situation in order to maximize his life purpose, happiness and full fillment,
but will also try to constantly predict the future.
And my worry and also my assumption is that in about 10-20 years also the mentioned solid places for wife hunting might not be anymore so solid, what would be an issue if any given red pilled man would now settle down in such a favourable place with his wife, only to observe his wife regards to quality change over time to the worse due to more and more western and feminist influence.

I am living in the Phils and i can tell you all that it is already here happening on a fast pace.

[armenia4ever]

Update:
Been married for about 3 months now and I've noticed a few things.

- In my personal experience, the sex has actually increased since marriage.

We average twice a day. (Sometimes, I don't even feel like it, but I oblige. Her high sex drive has skyrocketed to new levels with the pregnancy.) I've also discovered through some research that the father's semen helps reduce pregnancy cramps, morning sickness, ect.

- Frame will always be essential and shit tests will still occur.

Me and my wife had a small fight that escalated. I'm stubborn and I don't back down, despite how much I love her. I said something that had made her mad and in order to stay mad at me - emotions for the win - she made a big deal at me stopping by the bar on my way home for work for an hour.

It was happy hour and I literally spent a dollar on two beer - 50 cents each. I like stopping by at that bar when I can as it gives me a chance to talk to people as well as to make new connections. Networking with people who are actually/become your friends is essential. (It's often who you know for a job, not necessarily what you know.)

I kept asking her why she was making a big deal about it. She got madder.

Considering she is pregnant, the notion of fighting emotions with any kind of logic is even less of an option. You can't simply can't argue against emotions, no matter how logical you are with your girl - or usually any woman for that matter that you are intimate with.

So after a few retorts back and forth, I didn't try. She ended up simply saying, "Fuck you" and running into the bathroom. I replied in kind, "Fuck you!" I hear some crying.

I decide that I'm not going to bother with it or put up with it anymore so I got dressed and got ready to go outside for a walk. Before I left, I told her I loved her, but that she she could either stay there and cry or come with me for a walk.

The result was immediate.

She asked me to wait, got dressed and came with me. As we walked and talked, she apologized to me and she said she didn't even know why she had cried and that she wasn't sure why she was even trying to stay mad at me at the time.

Apparently she says that when she gets mad at me, she wants to have sex with me, and so she tries to get madder in order to not have sex with me. Sometimes when we squable or I do something she doesn't want me to - usually watching something or spending "too much time on the computer" she will half-joke, "You aren't getting any." I'll shoot back, "No you aren't getting any and since you are pregnant, you need it."

She then backs down and concedes my point. Note, this is before the emotions rise.

I've also noticed mini-tantrums when she gets mad. We were watching the Superbowl at a friends house and she was mad I was on my phone. I gave her a look of disgust, got up, and walked to the next room. When I came back, she was even more upset. To "punish me" she kept trying to sit at the edge of the couch away from my physical touch. I simply played it off, maintained my composure - and did give her some quiet comments about how she was having a temper tantrum.

When we left, she again mentioned she didn't know why she was trying to stay mad at me and apologized.


- Always be a leader; don't abdicate your responsibility to lead as a man.

It's actually harder than I realized when I started conceptualizing it and applying it on more than just an abstract level.

Since we are on a budget, we watch netflix at home - though we have gone out to a fair share of movies - when we aren't at a friends or I'm at work. Sometimes she - and I to an extent - will be bored of watching movies. She will complain she wants to do something else.

When I challenge her to think of something, she always responds, "Well I don't know! I don't know what there is to do around here." (My wife moved in with me when we got married.)

She is expecting me to come up with the activities for the evening. I'm more of a "Do what I want at that moment" kind of person and I don't plan the evenings activities.

What this has told me is that I need to get on this. I need to make sure I come up with things to keep us busy and give her the option to follow along - which she is usually more than happy to do.

I got a stitching machine and I plan to try and do some stitching of my own clothes as well as some repairs. (Why not learn another skill?) I realize this is perfect for her as well as she has some experience with a sewing machine.

She also is willing to take walks with me at any time as she likes to try to get active when she can as she hasn't been able to do her usually running and exercise since the pregnancy. (She had abs before I got knocked her up.)

Tomorrow we are going to go to a prayer meeting/dinner at our Priests house. Again, I'm trying to get used to always having options of what to do with a determination to do them and give her the option to come if she desires. Usually she always does as she likes spending time with me.

- Diaper, diapers, diapers.

Been talking to my relatives who had/have kids and they've mentioned you go through a box a week on average of diapers. Guess it's never to early to really stockpile

- Create "you" time away from your wife/girl.

My wife always wants to spend time with me. I texted her on my way home that I was going to stop somewhere and write. I knew she wasn't going to like that as she texted she wanted to walk with me, but she will just walk anyway. I got a few, "Whatever" responses.

I texted back with my own, "Whatever" and haven't texted her since. When I get home though, I know she will be ready to go for a walk with me again regardless. Maintain frame and don't back down. (I'm not saying be some sort of tyrant either.)

Point is, if I don't create "me" time, I won't get it.

[Tim in real life]

No, OP, Red Pill does not discourage having families.

The fact the Red Pill has an Anglocentric presentation primarily serves as a wake-up call to Anglosphere men and is a major counteractant versus Anglo white female feminism, which has deep roots from Victorianism.

[TheNookieMonster]

I've had many of the same observations.

I look down on non-breeders in much the same way I look down on non-red pillers.

If you don't breed, you're choosing to go extinct. Unless you're a first-rate researcher or entrepreneur, your impact on humanity ends with you.

[TigerMandingo]

(02-11-2016 09:14 AM)TheNookieMonster Wrote:  

I've had many of the same observations.

I look down on non-breeders in much the same way I look down on non-red pillers.

If you don't breed, you're choosing to go extinct. Unless you're a first-rate researcher or entrepreneur, your impact on humanity ends with you.

I'm completely OK with that.

I never intended to have an "impact on humanity" in the first place. Just wanna live my life, read books, and do shit that makes me happy. That being said, kudos to the people who start families and have kids.

[Dr. Howard]

(02-09-2016 06:18 PM)armenia4ever Wrote:  

Update:
Been married for about 3 months now and I've noticed a few things.

- In my personal experience, the sex has actually increased since marriage.

We average twice a day. (Sometimes, I don't even feel like it, but I oblige. Her high sex drive has skyrocketed to new levels with the pregnancy.) I've also discovered through some research that the father's semen helps reduce pregnancy cramps, morning sickness, ect.

- Frame will always be essential and shit tests will still occur.

Me and my wife had a small fight that escalated. I'm stubborn and I don't back down, despite how much I love her. I said something that had made her mad and in order to stay mad at me - emotions for the win - she made a big deal at me stopping by the bar on my way home for work for an hour.

It was happy hour and I literally spent a dollar on two beer - 50 cents each. I like stopping by at that bar when I can as it gives me a chance to talk to people as well as to make new connections. Networking with people who are actually/become your friends is essential. (It's often who you know for a job, not necessarily what you know.)

I kept asking her why she was making a big deal about it. She got madder.

Considering she is pregnant, the notion of fighting emotions with any kind of logic is even less of an option. You can't simply can't argue against emotions, no matter how logical you are with your girl - or usually any woman for that matter that you are intimate with.

So after a few retorts back and forth, I didn't try. She ended up simply saying, "Fuck you" and running into the bathroom. I replied in kind, "Fuck you!" I hear some crying.

I decide that I'm not going to bother with it or put up with it anymore so I got dressed and got ready to go outside for a walk. Before I left, I told her I loved her, but that she she could either stay there and cry or come with me for a walk.

The result was immediate.

She asked me to wait, got dressed and came with me. As we walked and talked, she apologized to me and she said she didn't even know why she had cried and that she wasn't sure why she was even trying to stay mad at me at the time.

Apparently she says that when she gets mad at me, she wants to have sex with me, and so she tries to get madder in order to not have sex with me. Sometimes when we squable or I do something she doesn't want me to - usually watching something or spending "too much time on the computer" she will half-joke, "You aren't getting any." I'll shoot back, "No you aren't getting any and since you are pregnant, you need it."

She then backs down and concedes my point. Note, this is before the emotions rise.

I've also noticed mini-tantrums when she gets mad. We were watching the Superbowl at a friends house and she was mad I was on my phone. I gave her a look of disgust, got up, and walked to the next room. When I came back, she was even more upset. To "punish me" she kept trying to sit at the edge of the couch away from my physical touch. I simply played it off, maintained my composure - and did give her some quiet comments about how she was having a temper tantrum.

When we left, she again mentioned she didn't know why she was trying to stay mad at me and apologized.


- Always be a leader; don't abdicate your responsibility to lead as a man.

It's actually harder than I realized when I started conceptualizing it and applying it on more than just an abstract level.

Since we are on a budget, we watch netflix at home - though we have gone out to a fair share of movies - when we aren't at a friends or I'm at work. Sometimes she - and I to an extent - will be bored of watching movies. She will complain she wants to do something else.

When I challenge her to think of something, she always responds, "Well I don't know! I don't know what there is to do around here." (My wife moved in with me when we got married.)

She is expecting me to come up with the activities for the evening. I'm more of a "Do what I want at that moment" kind of person and I don't plan the evenings activities.

What this has told me is that I need to get on this. I need to make sure I come up with things to keep us busy and give her the option to follow along - which she is usually more than happy to do.

I got a stitching machine and I plan to try and do some stitching of my own clothes as well as some repairs. (Why not learn another skill?) I realize this is perfect for her as well as she has some experience with a sewing machine.

She also is willing to take walks with me at any time as she likes to try to get active when she can as she hasn't been able to do her usually running and exercise since the pregnancy. (She had abs before I got knocked her up.)

Tomorrow we are going to go to a prayer meeting/dinner at our Priests house. Again, I'm trying to get used to always having options of what to do with a determination to do them and give her the option to come if she desires. Usually she always does as she likes spending time with me.

- Diaper, diapers, diapers.

Been talking to my relatives who had/have kids and they've mentioned you go through a box a week on average of diapers. Guess it's never to early to really stockpile

- Create "you" time away from your wife/girl.

My wife always wants to spend time with me. I texted her on my way home that I was going to stop somewhere and write. I knew she wasn't going to like that as she texted she wanted to walk with me, but she will just walk anyway. I got a few, "Whatever" responses.

I texted back with my own, "Whatever" and haven't texted her since. When I get home though, I know she will be ready to go for a walk with me again regardless. Maintain frame and don't back down. (I'm not saying be some sort of tyrant either.)

Point is, if I don't create "me" time, I won't get it.

Time to bring some old and grizzled marital insight to this thread. You have created an excellent foundation to your marriage with a young wife, pastoral and family influences.

However, you are 3 months in and she is 20 weeks pregnant. You sir, are very much still in the 'honeymoon' phase. She's happy that she's is married and happy that she is pregnant.

She will be a handful once she gets really pregnant, once that kid is out and crying all night and day and keeping your parents and her awake and everyone is sleep deprives. Your marriage will get stressed when you've got to start applying your $20/hr to baby supplies and/or your own apartment and/or medical bills related to delivering the child.

Sex will decrease once she is grossly pregnant. It disappear while the child is between the ages of 0 and about 4 months as it wakes up every few hours. Sex will reappear between the ages of 4 months and aged 2 years when the kid is scared of the dark. If you do puss out on this part and let the child sleep in your bed. Game fucking over. You will not have sex again until...maybe when the kid is age 5.

Prepare yourself for the "idle hands are the devil's workshop" effect when you are at work and kid can entertain itself for most of the day.

In short, you are starting off well, but you ain't seen shit yet. Steel yourself for the road ahead.

~ 14 years of marriage spanning one ex wife, one current and 2 kids.

[Bushido]

Not to spoil your party OP, but I've rarely heard of sex going down straight after the wedding. It's after children (especially the 2nd) when it goes downhill for most people. I sincerely wish you the best of luck.

[TheNookieMonster]

(02-11-2016 12:41 PM)dreambig Wrote:  

Not to spoil your party OP, but I've rarely heard of sex going down straight after the wedding. It's after children (especially the 2nd) when it goes downhill for most people. I sincerely wish you the best of luck.

If you fuck other women, it doesn't go downhill even after children.

[tynamite]

The problem with marriage is that marriage is a system of legalised theft from men to women. When a man and woman get divorced, the alimony which lasts a man's entire life, along with half his assets including his house, is most likely going to be given to the woman in court, as people see women as nurturing victims. People go to prison, bankrupt and homeless due to getting divorced.

And the worst part is that if you sign a pre-nup before getting married, the judge can void it anyway. The government voids legal contracts that forbid women stealing from men. Most men who want to get married, don't, because they don't want to be financially raped for life. A person can still be masculine in a marriage.

Also women don't want to get married any more. Roosh explained it best.

Quote:

Isn’t it hypocritical to criticize “sluts” while making your living from teaching men to sleep with as many women as possible?

Men don't get to choose what they get from women. In the last 20 years, women announced they don't wanna get married right away, they want to focus on their job, have fun. So I'm teaching guys to get something anyway. I could stay home and cry that no woman wants to marry me, or find out what I have to do to take advantage of this new goal women have.
http://www.dailydot.com/lifestyle/roosh-...-misogyny/

In the past, people viewed relationships as a means of getting spirituality and enlightenment. Songs on the radio valued commitment. Nowadays people view relationships like Krispy Kreme doughnuts, a matter of convenience as if it is a ready meal that is ready in 3 minutes. The youth don't use the word date any more. They use the word link or check instead. Songs nowadays are now about twerking, looking sexy, and promiscuous sex. We are moving from a lifestyle of self-fulfillment and co-operation to a lifestyle of hedonism and base desires.

I went to a scientific interview to have an mri scan, answer multiple choice and short questions, and speak to the two interviewers for five hours interview and chat with me, so they could find genetic similarities between a mental illness and a developmental disorder. I was asked if I had a girlfriend. I said I had one now and I had one in the past. She asked me how long I dated her. I lied and said two years to gauge her reaction. Guess what? She told me that I dated her for a long time. That's right! Dating someone for two years is a long time if you're born in the 90s. You'd be surprised how many young women prefer to have casual and short term relationships nowadays.

ROK can expand on this.
http://www.returnofkings.com/32943/5-dat...men-killed