[TigerMandingo]

The problem with baseball isn't the influx of Latino players, it's the fact that the season is too damn long and so are the games. Speed the game up. They should have some sort of game clock like every other sport.

You have 5 seconds to step into the batter's box. None of this shuffling around with gloves, spitting, and grabbing your balls.

[Kamikaze]

(10-06-2015 03:33 PM)TonySandos Wrote:  

I just want to point out the atrocious anti-racism signaling, borderline witch hunt tactics and assumption of whiteness or self-hating latino background.

...

You guys should be ashamed of yourselves.

Put it over the plate and I'm swinging.

[Bear Hands]

For ratings chat: Do MLB network subscriptions factor into these ratings? How about the fact that the live gate for MLB is UP this year? MLB doesn't need to suck the advertising tit as hard as the other professional sports because advertising is not such as huge a chunk of the revenue stream. They get thousands of people into 15 stadiums 7 days a week for 6 months out of the year.

Baseball is a generational game. MLB's current commissioner Rob Manfred has cited polls that show most of today's fans (about 70%) played the game as children. Fathers pass down love of the game to their sons. There's a lot of nuance to the game that requires a father's guidance to understand. The stars of the game usually learned how to throw, hit, and catch with their fathers before they were old enough to step into little league. So why is popularity down? Fathers are not with their children as much. Single parent homes are on the rise. Parents are working more. Fathers come to homes that are not cared for and have to devote their after-work energy to something besides their kids. Children are growing up in areas where they cannot just go outside and start a pickup baseball game in an open field. Ask yourself which demographics have less involvement from fathers now than in the past.

[teh_skeeze]

That's a good point I failed to mention Bear Hands. It seems the sports that are gaining in popularity mostly require you to be born big, strong, and fast. Baseball is a game of skill that takes years to master.

[uptownguy]

Now theyve got a woman doing the analysis on the playoff game. I think she played softball or something.

[cascadecombo]

Quote:

That's a good point I failed to mention Bear Hands. It seems the sports that are gaining in popularity mostly require you to be born big, strong, and fast. Baseball is a game of skill that takes years to master.

What sport doesn't take years to master? Serious question.

[teh_skeeze]

(10-06-2015 09:57 PM)cascadecombo Wrote:  

Quote:

That's a good point I failed to mention Bear Hands. It seems the sports that are gaining in popularity mostly require you to be born big, strong, and fast. Baseball is a game of skill that takes years to master.

What sport doesn't take years to master? Serious question.

Jason Pierre-Paul only played football for 5 years before making it to the NFL. He only played 1 season of D1. Most baseball players spend 5 years in the minors before making it to the show. You have to be really damn good to even sniff the minors.

That's not to say that basketball and football don't take a lot of skill. It's that you need to be a genetic freak to make it to the higher levels. This is probably what makes these sports more appealing. The superhuman feats these athletes are able to accomplish. Baseball players are "normal".

Mastery was probably a poor choice of words. Honing their skills is probably more apt.

[ManVsMachine]

If you want to whine about bat flipping in the MLB, the following might #trigger you

This might be the most misleading thread title of 2015.

[blacknwhitespade]

Actually, this is becoming a bit of a story. I stumbled onto an article about this not long ago. It could be the next big race hustling shit storm in major league sports.

Personally, I like how Latin players (and certain white and black players) sometimes bring some heated passion to the game. Want to give a fist pump or high five to your teammates after a big hit? Great! That said, I don't want to see Baseball devolve the way the NFL was for many years and the NBA still is with the influx of some egotistical (mostly black) players turning those games into classless displays of narcissism and a total lack of respect. Football was getting pretty unwatchable back in the 90s with players shaking around like spazzy goons in the end zone and taunting their opponents on TD breakaways. Football improved their product in the 2000s when they started cracking the whip and not tolerating bullshit even from the biggest star players (remember Keyshawn?). Basketball has become a highly ego-centric, star-centric sport (does anyone really care about NBA *teams* anymore?).

Baseball is refreshing in that it's still mostly a sport where the concept of team comes before individual ego, a sport that for the most part has held close to it's 100+ year old roots. I've seen the acts like Jose Fernandez's home run, a 21 year old spitting on third base as he trotted by. Carlos Zambrano was one of the biggest douches I can remember from the past 10 years, his mental instability hurt himself more than anyone, as it prevented him from becoming a truly great pitcher. First move Theo Epstein made in turning the Chicago Cubs into contenders: dump Zambrano! Baseball is a gentleman's game, a game of respect, it is not the WWF.

The game did not pander when black players were integrated. Latin players are no exception. What about the growing number of Japanese players in baseball? Should the MLB also pander to Asian players and their roots to have even more conservative/honor-based rules in the game a la the Japanese league? This is the inherent flaw in "multiculturalism". You can't make everyone happy. Americanize, and follow the rules of the road, or else go back to the Dominican league.

[ManVsMachine]

(10-06-2015 10:47 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  

Actually, this is becoming a bit of a story. I stumbled onto an article about this not long ago. It could be the next big race hustling shit storm in major league sports.

Personally, I like how Latin players (and certain white and black players) sometimes bring some heated passion to the game. That said, I don't want to see Baseball devolve the way the NFL was for many years and the NBA still is with the influx of black players turning those games into classless displays of narcissism and a total lack of respect. Football was getting pretty unwatchable back in the 90s with players shaking around like spazzy goons in the end zone and taunting their opponents on TD breakaways. Basketball has become a highly ego-centric, star-centric sport (does anyone really care about the *teams* anymore?).

Baseball is refreshing in that it's still mostly a sport where team comes before individual ego, a sport that for the most part has held close to it's 100+ year old roots. I've seen the acts like Jose Fernandez's home run, a 21 year old spitting on third base as he trotted by. Carlos Zambrano was one of the biggest douches I can remember from the past 10 years, his mental instability hurt himself more than anyone, as it prevented him from becoming a truly great pitcher. First move Theo Epstein made in turning the Chicago Cubs into contenders: dump Zambrano!

The game did not pander when black players were integrated. Latin players are no exception. What about the growing number of Japanese players in baseball? Should the MLB also pander to Asian players and their roots to have even more conservative/honor-based rules in the game a la the Japanese league? This is the inherent flaw in "multiculturalism". You can't make everyone happy. Americanize, and follow the rules of the road, or else go back to the Dominican league.

Several inaccuracies in this post.

Two teams in the NBA semifinals, the Hawks and the Warriors, showcased the zenith of "team play" throughout the regular season and the playoffs. The hawks would sometimes pass the ball up to 17 times before a shot was attempted. Their coach, Mike Budenholzer, was assistant to Coach Pops of the Spurs who won the championship in 2014 - their team clearly focused on team play and Kawhi Leonard was absolutely *not* a household name until he shut out Lebron in the finals.

The Warriors ended up winning the championship. Their superstar, Steph Curry, had 1-2 games in the finals out of their 4 wins where he had as many or more assisted points than points. Andre Iguodala ended up getting the Finals MVP (over Curry). As did Leonard in 2014 (over Duncan). Thats two years in a row of team ball winning a championship, and two years in a row of beating a superstar-dependent team.


By the way, Larry Byrd / MJ / the "greats" of the older days talked significantly more shit than the new generation. Only Jimmy Butler is even close to the amount of "total lack of respect" shown by these players. Look up Michael Jordan + Muggsy Bogues for a classic example.

Another thing that has changed drastically since "the good old days" is the media. You didn't mention that at all - we now live in an age where every single little booboo players like Lebron get are widely publicized, and every garish ridiculous designer outfit the other sideshow characters walk out into the game are completely played up and played out by the media. This has been going on in many sports for decades - now , it's become a fashion show of its own. Don't fall victim to the wide-scale clickbait scheme pervasive across all sports today. (edit: I actually think the "TMZ-ification" of sports has been a greater detriment than *any* cultural change in sports in the past two decades)


The MLB is obviously not pandering to the KBO / NPB - where the NPB actually values teams tying as much as a win (https://www.reddit.com/r/NPB/wiki/differences) , which is a stark contrast to what Americans from *any* other cultural background values. The KBO features more bat flips than a circus sideshow - they'll even flip on a shanked foul ball, as depicted in the video above.


And I personally loved the throat-slashing (now heavily fined) celebrations in the 90s NFL. NCAA football players can't even celebrate a touchdown or good play. Who is enforcing your "rules of the road?" Aside from very few teams like The Braves, most organizations don't really care about the showboating when the star is on THIER team. Ironically, "you can't make everyone happy" applies as well to both mine and your own beliefs of the "unwritten rules" of each sport.

[blacknwhitespade]

(10-06-2015 11:08 PM)ManVsMachine Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 10:47 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  

Actually, this is becoming a bit of a story. I stumbled onto an article about this not long ago. It could be the next big race hustling shit storm in major league sports.

Personally, I like how Latin players (and certain white and black players) sometimes bring some heated passion to the game. That said, I don't want to see Baseball devolve the way the NFL was for many years and the NBA still is with the influx of black players turning those games into classless displays of narcissism and a total lack of respect. Football was getting pretty unwatchable back in the 90s with players shaking around like spazzy goons in the end zone and taunting their opponents on TD breakaways. Basketball has become a highly ego-centric, star-centric sport (does anyone really care about the *teams* anymore?).

Baseball is refreshing in that it's still mostly a sport where team comes before individual ego, a sport that for the most part has held close to it's 100+ year old roots. I've seen the acts like Jose Fernandez's home run, a 21 year old spitting on third base as he trotted by. Carlos Zambrano was one of the biggest douches I can remember from the past 10 years, his mental instability hurt himself more than anyone, as it prevented him from becoming a truly great pitcher. First move Theo Epstein made in turning the Chicago Cubs into contenders: dump Zambrano!

The game did not pander when black players were integrated. Latin players are no exception. What about the growing number of Japanese players in baseball? Should the MLB also pander to Asian players and their roots to have even more conservative/honor-based rules in the game a la the Japanese league? This is the inherent flaw in "multiculturalism". You can't make everyone happy. Americanize, and follow the rules of the road, or else go back to the Dominican league.

Several inaccuracies in this post.

Two teams in the NBA semifinals, the Hawks and the Warriors, showcased the zenith of "team play" throughout the regular season and the playoffs. The hawks would sometimes pass the ball up to 17 times before a shot was attempted. Their coach, Mike Budenholzer, was assistant to Coach Pops of the Spurs who won the championship in 2014 - their team clearly focused on team play and Kawhi Leonard was absolutely *not* a household name until he shut out Lebron in the finals.

The Warriors ended up winning the championship. Their superstar, Steph Curry, had 1-2 games in the finals out of their 4 wins where he had as many or more assists than points. Thats two years in a row of team ball winning a championship, and two years in a row of beating a superstar-dependent team.


By the way, Larry Byrd / MJ / the "greats" of the older days talked significantly more shit than the new generation. Only Jimmy Butler is even close to the amount of "total lack of respect" shown by these players. Look up Michael Jordan + Muggsy Bogues for a classic example.


The MLB is obviously not pandering to the KBO / NPB - where the NPB actually values teams tying as much as a win (https://www.reddit.com/r/NPB/wiki/differences) , which is a stark contrast to what Americans from *any* other cultural background values. The KBO features more bat flips than a circus sideshow - they'll even flip on a shanked foul ball, as depicted in the video above.


And I personally loved the throat-slashing (now heavily fined) celebrations in the 90s NFL. NCAA football players can't even celebrate a touchdown or good play. Who is enforcing your "rules of the road?" Aside from very few teams like The Braves, most organizations don't really care about the showboating when the star is on THIER team. Ironically, "you can't make everyone happy" applies as well to both mine and your own beliefs of the "unwritten rules" of each sport.

The Warriors were an interesting story last year, but seem to be the exception. For decades, the NBA has come down to the 2-3 teams with the 2 or 3 biggest stars. Jordan vs Malone, Magic vs Byrd, Kobe vs Lebron, etc, etc. Is this professional boxing? The stars are bigger than the teams, and there's too much of the same teams reeling off multiple championships. The fact that Cleveland can morph from a losing squad back into a semi-finals bound team simply with the re-addition of Lebron shows how easy this league is to figure out. And I realize this goes back to at least the pre-Byrd Celtics dynasties, but it's long been a flaw imo.

I don't care if the baseball player is on MY team, I mentioned a player from one of my favorite teams in my previous post and my dislike of his antics. Passionate celebration is great as long as it doesn't cross the line to in-your-face WWF mentality disrespect for your opponent. I'm glad at least some teams, writers, and fans are calling this out to keep these gestures from escalating.

[uptownguy]

I think youre confusing the marketing of basketball with the actual game. The game is very team driven. The Warriors and Hawks are hardly exceptions. They learned from how the Spurs were so successful through teamwork. Isolation players like Carmelo are relentlessly criticized for hurting their teams. Some of the stars you mentioned such as Lebron and Magic are known as selfless players and always had high assist totals. Bird was known for hard work. Its true the top players teams dominate, but thats because there are only five players on the court giving those players an outsized impact on the result compared to football or baseball.

[blacknwhitespade]

(10-06-2015 06:12 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  

The problem with baseball isn't the influx of Latino players, it's the fact that the season is too damn long and so are the games. Speed the game up. They should have some sort of game clock like every other sport.

You have 5 seconds to step into the batter's box. None of this shuffling around with gloves, spitting, and grabbing your balls.

This could be greatly improved by having less/shorter commercial breaks during games. I read a book about the Garvey-Cey era Dodgers of the 70s and how back then there literally sometimes were not radio/TV commercial breaks between innings or pitching changes, and when there were, they were brief commercials. The teams would grab their gloves and race out to their field positions immediately after the 3rd out and the next inning would be swiftly underway. Most gametimes could be reduced by 20 minutes or so if they cut back on the excessive commercial slot times. The problem is, enterprises/sponsors would throw up a fight if anyone had the gall to chop back on their commercial time.

[aSimpNamedBrokeback]

(10-07-2015 09:31 AM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  

The problem is, enterprises/sponsors would throw up a fight if anyone had the gall to chop back on their commercial time.

I've often wondered if this is why soccer isn't as big in the US. Not that no one wants to watch, but that there isn't alot of commercial breaks to make money off of. Unlike football which at this points seems like 50/50 game vs commercials, and of course its the most popular sport in America

[armenia4ever]

I played little league baseball for years, and besides the "hit their player, if their pitcher hits yours", I never heard of any of these rules nor followed them - nor did any other kids. (Okay and the don't step in the batters box when the pitcher is warming up.)

This is a nonstory that is being blown up deliberately for the sake of controversy to help EPSN's ratings.

I've read A LOT of baseball history, and I've never come across most of these unspoken rules at all.

I love baseball, but having more passion in the game is a good thing. While some people may hate Pete Rose's slide into Ray Foss during the All-star game, that passion is something that made him what he was.

Furthermore, how many "Latino" SJWs do you know that are foreign born? They are rare as hell and the reasons for that should be obvious. (Note, I'm not a leftie. Of any sort. Far from it.)

[TheSlayer]

(10-06-2015 11:39 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  

The Warriors were an interesting story last year, but seem to be the exception. For decades, the NBA has come down to the 2-3 teams with the 2 or 3 biggest stars. Jordan vs Malone, Magic vs Byrd, Kobe vs Lebron, etc, etc. Is this professional boxing? The stars are bigger than the teams, and there's too much of the same teams reeling off multiple championships. The fact that Cleveland can morph from a losing squad back into a semi-finals bound team simply with the re-addition of Lebron shows how easy this league is to figure out. And I realize this goes back to at least the pre-Byrd Celtics dynasties, but it's long been a flaw imo.

I don't care if the baseball player is on MY team, I mentioned a player from one of my favorite teams in my previous post and my dislike of his antics. Passionate celebration is great as long as it doesn't cross the line to in-your-face WWF mentality disrespect for your opponent. I'm glad at least some teams, writers, and fans are calling this out to keep these gestures from escalating.

You are missing one thing from your analysis here.

In the NBA the biggest stars have always had the best teams and it's got nothing to do with stars being the focus over the team. It's because basketball is a 5 man sport and 1 superstar can have such a tremendous impact on the team which he can't in the MLB or even the NFL.

The NBA is the only sport where adding one superstar can make you a 50+ game winner in the regular season and guarantee you at least a 2nd round appearance in the playoffs. That's just the nature of the sport. That's why superstars are more glorified in basketball because just one superstar or even a star makes you a fringe-contender which just doesn't happen in other sports.

And the funny thing is the NBA has been pretty pussified under David Stern. Players can't really celebrate in the NBA either. I am not sure where people are coming up with this notion that baseball is a lot more respectful than basketball. People do realize that in NBA players get techs these days for 'staring' at their opponent or hanging on the rim after a drunk. Yeah, they can show a bit more emotion than the MLB but it's not that much different.

[Bear Hands]

(10-07-2015 09:31 AM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 06:12 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  

The problem with baseball isn't the influx of Latino players, it's the fact that the season is too damn long and so are the games. Speed the game up. They should have some sort of game clock like every other sport.

You have 5 seconds to step into the batter's box. None of this shuffling around with gloves, spitting, and grabbing your balls.

This could be greatly improved by having less/shorter commercial breaks during games. I read a book about the Garvey-Cey era Dodgers of the 70s and how back then there literally sometimes were not radio/TV commercial breaks between innings or pitching changes, and when there were, they were brief commercials. The teams would grab their gloves and race out to their field positions immediately after the 3rd out and the next inning would be swiftly underway. Most gametimes could be reduced by 20 minutes or so if they cut back on the excessive commercial slot times. The problem is, enterprises/sponsors would throw up a fight if anyone had the gall to chop back on their commercial time.

Baseball put a timer up in each stadium that starts around 2 minutes 25 seconds for locally-televised games for time between innings and pitching changes, and the players had to be out on the field ready to go with 30 seconds left in the clock, which was the time the broadcasts would resume from commercial breaks. Pitchers were compensated by being allowed as many warm up pitches as they wanted before the cut off, rather than the traditional 8, which further incentivized getting out on the field and being ready to play. The result averaged to games being 6 minutes shorter this year, and most of the time was shaved off commercial breaks. However, more time was saved pre-All Star break than afterward. They got lax about enforcing the "1 foot in the batter's box" rule after that point.

The average MLB broadcast is shorter than the average NFL broadcast, and a greater proportion of the broadcasting time is active gameplay. Why football gets a pass for having about 11 minutes of active playing time out of a 3+ hour game but baseball gets criticized for having more active play in less time confuses me.

[Veloce]

While I realize there's a masculine tradition in organized sports, I think that time is long gone. There was a time when sports players didn't wear pink and played for the love of the game and not money.

Now I look at organized sports the same way I see Hollywood. Just another distraction to keep the population pacified, while the actors get paid millions to play a fucking game.

You're watching one millionaire admire his homerun while another millionaire that catches a ball stands in his way, while a bunch of millionaires from one side clear the benches and then a bunch of millionaires from the other side clears theirs. And all the while you're bombarded with corporate advertising insisting that you go out and buy their products.

And that's all good. Props to these guys for winning at life, getting paid, and banging the upper echelon of American pussy.

But this is a game and a distraction. Even if there is an SJW invasion, there's nothing major lost. I would be more upset about SJWs infiltrating little league games than MLB. I played baseball, soccer, and tennis growing up, and firmly believe in the importance of kids playing sports. It's essential for proper development. I think that has a much bigger impact on society as a whole than what's going on with televised sports.

[EL CHAPO]

(10-06-2015 02:34 PM)Game_Started Wrote:  

If a pitcher is mad that a guy is looking at his homer a little too long, he should quit being a little bitch and pitch better. That's the most retarded unwritten rule ever. "What? I shouldn't like the fact that I scored??"

And Chapo, serious question, are you upset with the drop in black players with the sport?

Here's a video of Chris Rock's response for the drop in Black baseball players. Chris Rock grew up a baseball fan but has since seen his favorite sport lose ground.

I agree with some of his points, but he loses me on the cultural part. Black rap/hip-hop culture is majorly responsible for the collapse of young Black men, and he seems to blame it on baseball itself which I completely disagree.

[blacknwhitespade]

Hip-hop culture and Michael Jordan are mostly responsible for the decline of blacks in baseball. The trend kicked to high gear in the 90s, coincidentally while baseball was going through some dark years around the 1994-1995 strike. Most young blacks are simply focusing on other sports. There are still some young black athletes making it into professional baseball though, their decline has tapered off somewhat in recent years, so I think there'll always be at least some, albeit underrepresented, presence of black players in baseball.

[Disco_Volante]

El Chapo - It's a reflection of youth who want constant fucking stimulation and can't handle moments of silence or inaction. I.E. in NBA games they actually play music during the game. NFL broadcasts they add all these graphic designs on the field to 'enhance' the experience. I will be sad if baseball tries to cater to these idiots by throwing in more 'entertainment' in the game.

Maybe the season needs to be shortened, but that's it.

[Game_Started]

Look at all these Spics being disrespectful to the Gentleman's Game! I want my country back:

[Mentavious]

Why do people care if someone does a little celebration when hitting a big shot, causing a fumble, or catching a TD?

Especially when it comes to football when you work your ass off to get in a position where it you can start and you may only get 10-12 sacs or 10-12 tds a game?

[MY DETROIT PLAYAS]

Allow me to interject on a not so popular part of the game for some "purists". Like it or not, trash talking and emotion are woven in the fabric of competition.

I can't recall a game I've been involved where there wasn't some trash talk, or intimidation involved. If you're the target - it's a lonely feeling but once you get through it you feel tougher even battle tested.

It's how competitors separate the go-getter's from the quitters. In every corner of the globe, it's a rite of passage

Honestly, if you're a teammate of mine I want to see you bark back or I don't want you on my squad.

As far as the speed of the game, baseball will always be a slower paced sport. Pitching changes, strategic substitutions, pinch hitters/runners the nature of the sport is strategic. It really is a cerebral sport.

Imagine speeding up a chess match, a game where you are always thinking 3 steps ahead. Baseball is the most comparable sport.

[Brosemite]

(10-07-2015 03:21 PM)MY DETROIT PLAYAS Wrote:  

Allow me to interject on a not so popular part of the game for some "purists". Like it or not, trash talking and emotion are woven in the fabric of competition.

I can't recall a game I've been involved where there wasn't some trash talk, or intimidation involved. If you're the target - it's a lonely feeling but once you get through it you feel tougher even battle tested.

It's how competitors separate the go-getter's from the quitters. In every corner of the globe, it's a rite of passage

Honestly, if you're a teammate of mine I want to see you bark back or I don't want you on my squad.

As far as the speed of the game, baseball will always be a slower paced sport. Pitching changes, strategic substitutions, pinch hitters/runners the nature of the sport is strategic. It really is a cerebral sport.

Imagine speeding up a chess match, a game where you are always thinking 3 steps ahead. Baseball is the most comparable sport.

Excellent points...infallible. I have trouble taking everything baseball purists preach word for word regarding "sportsmanship." End of the day, MLB is the only major professional sport where shaking the hands of your opponents after a playoff series (or postseason elimination game) is not practiced.....and what about a pitcher after accidentally beaning a batter..where's the apology after that?

Sports ethics have always been somewhat flawed..and the evolution of sports ethics will continue to change for better or worse with those same hypocritical elements as time goes on...