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Thoughts of leaving Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
#1

Thoughts of leaving Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

I started to think of leaving the bjj and start something more practical like muay thai. The place that I train bjj teaches only ground fighting(we start on the ground), no throws or even takedowns so I feel it's almost useless. I tried other bjj schools and it's all the same. I still like bjj, but don't know what's the purpose to continue with this sport. Any advice?
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#2

Thoughts of leaving Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

Depends on if you want to spar or not.

You get real practical results from a style when you try it out. In BJJ you can roll, and there's the beauty of it. If you don't like the focus of your academy, then switch it and try a different BJJ gym.

Muay Thai is much more physically demanding, but in an actual fight it's probably more useful so long as you're up against your average guy (especially since you're no stranger to the ground should the fight go there). But I feel that it's only more useful if you spar, and sparring is something you should seriously think about. Sparring is bad for you health, and you can't half-ass it at all. If you're a bad fighter, you need to be realistic about it and save yourself from any unnecessary head trauma.

My advice would just be look for another BJJ gym.

Quote:PapayaTapper Wrote:
you seem to have a penchant for sticking your dick in high drama retarded trash.
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#3

Thoughts of leaving Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

Quote: (10-03-2015 03:03 AM)Tex Wrote:  

Depends on if you want to spar or not.

You get real practical results from a style when you try it out. In BJJ you can roll, and there's the beauty of it. If you don't like the focus of your academy, then switch it and try a different BJJ gym.

Muay Thai is much more physically demanding, but in an actual fight it's probably more useful so long as you're up against your average guy (especially since you're no stranger to the ground should the fight go there). But I feel that it's only more useful if you spar, and sparring is something you should seriously think about. Sparring is bad for you health, and you can't half-ass it at all. If you're a bad fighter, you need to be realistic about it and save yourself from any unnecessary head trauma.

My advice would just be look for another BJJ gym.

I actually like sparring, I tried it in the past. Another thing that bothers me is that most bjj guys that I train with, can't really take a punch, so in real situation I don't know how much the bjj would help them. I tried other gyms, they all start on the ground without standing.
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#4

Thoughts of leaving Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

I've heard of a couple of guys supplementing their BJJ with wrestling or judo classes to get more well-rounded, rather than leaving their BJJ gym. But that could get costly.

I would say go for Muay Thai then if you really want to. BJJ is extremely effective, but your concerns are legitimate. Still, I wouldn't want to abandon BJJ if I was mostly concerned about practicality, because there're starting to be more and more Ryan Hall characters who use very awkward, new takes on jiu-jitsu to cause damage. I may be wrong, but I predict a new wave of BJJ dominance in the coming years as strict stand-up guys with basic grappling skills try to deal with things like the truck and the 50/50.

But if there's no options for the kind of BJJ you want, and you're comfortable with sparring, do the Muay Thai.

Quote:PapayaTapper Wrote:
you seem to have a penchant for sticking your dick in high drama retarded trash.
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#5

Thoughts of leaving Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

I agree with your concerns about the lack of take downs. Before i started judo, i visited a couple of BJJ places and everything started on the ground. My reaction was WTF??

My 2 cents- try judo, but be aware it is absolutely brutal on the body (much more so than BJJ). Your newaza (ground techniques) will already be well developed and you already have kynesthetic awareness which will translate well.

For self defense, I don't think you can go past good ol' fashion Western boxing. I used to box in high school and it is the closest thing you will come to experiencing a "real fight" in controlled conditions.
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#6

Thoughts of leaving Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

As a past wrestler and kung fu guy, I'd even say Judo and boxing would be a pretty damned good combo. An MMA gym instructor is too likely to be a jack of all trades, master of none.

Kung Fu can be good, and dare I say the "best," but I've only found one school that truly lives up to "all beauty comes from function" and that was my first and main school. The rest have way too much flowery showy stuff, sacrificing effectiveness for authenticity and oriental flavor while being little more than Chinese McDojo belt factories. And one time I was sparring with one of the top kung fu instructors who had a taste of BJJ. He thought he teach me a lesson by grappling with me, to throw me off. Well, haha, he has another thing coming when he realized I was a wrestler too. Kung Fu only guys certainly have a glaring soft spot in their armor, and it is grappling/ground fighting.

Striking should be the primary offense. There's a reason why militaries use bullets and missiles rather than nets. Percussion causes quick devastation to a target, and is the only way against multiple attackers. Just ask Little Dark.
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#7

Thoughts of leaving Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

I should have added that when you get hit in a real fight, your fine motor skills go out the window, and you go into that dark tunnel, where your wits and peripheral vision desert you. Good luck trying to use BJJ in that scenario. Yes, yes, MMA fighters do it all the time, but they are bad ass highly trained athletes with multiple brutal encounters under their belts. Same goes for the Gracies at the time they were popularizing BJJ during the 90s.
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#8

Thoughts of leaving Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

Quote: (10-03-2015 07:26 AM)Atticus Wrote:  

I should have added that when you get hit in a real fight, your fine motor skills go out the window, and you go into that dark tunnel, where your wits and peripheral vision desert you. Good luck trying to use BJJ in that scenario. Yes, yes, MMA fighters do it all the time, but they are bad ass highly trained athletes with multiple brutal encounters under their belts. Same goes for the Gracies at the time they were popularizing BJJ during the 90s.

I think you're right about the Gracie's but also anyone with significant wrestling or BJJ competition experience, especially at a high level, will keep their skill in a real fight. There is plenty of adrenaline and tunnel vision in a high-pressure competition, and you can slam the mat pretty hard. It is rough.
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#9

Thoughts of leaving Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

Sounds like you need to try other gyms for a while. The typical "UFC configuration" seems to be BJJ with Muay Thai and some boxing thrown in. I would take into consideration what you are specifically looking to do, and find an art and/or dojo that accomplishes that.
I have trained MT and while it's a wicked striking art, it's a young man's game. I don't personally care to roll on the ground (ala BJJ) for self defense, but the reality is you may end up there so prepare accordingly.
From all my years in the martial arts it seems to be more of choosing an instructor & school than style. There are awesome instructors, that have official styles, but taylor instruction to whatever works in various situations. There are also teachers that just flat-out suck. Typically those seem to be the newly-minted black belts, etc.
I don't spar or compete per-se, as my interest is mostly in self defense. I want to hit hard, then GTFO, as most street self defense situations are going to be "asymmetric"--as in you vs 3-4 other dudes. MMA doesn't model that so much. BJJ is a great art, but it depends on if the teacher knows the "ugly" BJJ--ie joint/limb breaks, eye gouges, etc.

Again, comes down to teacher and school, and what are you looking for.
My .02
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#10

Thoughts of leaving Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

Quote: (10-03-2015 08:05 AM)Moto Wrote:  

I think you're right about the Gracie's but also anyone with significant wrestling or BJJ competition experience, especially at a high level, will keep their skill in a real fight. There is plenty of adrenaline and tunnel vision in a high-pressure competition, and you can slam the mat pretty hard. It is rough.

Yeah, I think there is some truth to that. I was a wrestler in high school. I worked out with a new guy that joined the team in high school, an acquaintance of mine, for a couple of months before the season started then met up with him in a tournament. He didn't really have the experience and didn't know what it felt like in a real "Go Time" situation and just couldn't respond to full speed and force during the match. Pinned him in about a minute.

I also took took aikido for a bunch of years when I got older (after having done kung fu for a few years in my 20's). Then one time when the shit hit the fan in a restaurant I had to take a gun away from a guy and I kept my cool. Stripped the pistol right out of his hand. I think it was because I had been in a couple hundred wrestling matches and a few real tough situations before such as a couple of attempted muggings when I was in a larger city.
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#11

Thoughts of leaving Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

Quote: (10-03-2015 11:36 AM)Col Mortimer Wrote:  

I want to hit hard, then GTFO, as most street self defense situations are going to be "asymmetric"--as in you vs 3-4 other dudes. MMA doesn't model that so much. BJJ is a great art, but it depends on if the teacher knows the "ugly" BJJ--ie joint/limb breaks, eye gouges, etc.

I agree with learning the multiple attacker stuff. One thing that happens when you learn BJJ and Judo is that you completely engage your attacker which can tie you up to be quite vulnerable to other attackers. When they teach you multiple attacker stuff (I learned in Aikido and Krav Maga) they teach you to just spend a couple of seconds on one attacker to throw them off balance or (Krav Maga) some definitive defense or attack then move to the next attacker. I really sucked when I moved to multiple attacker scenarios and I thought I would breeze through it. I still never got that great at it.
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#12

Thoughts of leaving Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

BJJ is not a combat sport, it's a martial art with rules to follow.
Want to throw punch ? Better sign up to boxing classes.

BJJ don't have take down or throw ? Fake argument because the gracies did a really good work at marketing and selling this sport and as a money machine they had to base their marketing on novelty: Locks
Now many people, like OP, find that there is something missing in this great martial art.

[History course]
Before throwing the opponent you have to be able to know how to act once you get on the ground but that doesn't dispense the standing part and this part seems to have disappeared somewhere between brazil and the rest of the world.
There is a great difference between those two and it's JUDO lessons:








Before BJJ became a great well known sport in the US something as great and complete as it should be used to exist: Real Judo (Ne waza) where a lot of today BJJ champions would not stand a chance because of being in the same situation as OP and many others found themselves.





[/History course]

Quote: (10-03-2015 11:36 AM)Col Mortimer Wrote:  

I don't spar or compete per-se, as my interest is mostly in self defense. I want to hit hard, then GTFO, as most street self defense situations are going to be "asymmetric"--as in you vs 3-4 other dudes. MMA doesn't model that so much. BJJ is a great art, but it depends on if the teacher knows the "ugly" BJJ--ie joint/limb breaks, eye gouges, etc.

Again, comes down to teacher and school, and what are you looking for.
My .02

200% agree with you and that's why I think Bas Rutten was the only one able to do such a great job with his Self Defense series:





My .02

Tell them too much, they wouldn't understand; tell them what they know, they would yawn.
They have to move up by responding to challenges, not too easy not too hard, until they paused at what they always think is the end of the road for all time instead of a momentary break in an endless upward spiral
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#13

Thoughts of leaving Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

Thinking about quitting?

I hate the butt scooting, takedowns are key to getting a good position. Blah blah you kniw that.


Take a few months off from bjj and try other styles. I added shooto to my grappling base, couldn't be happier. A striking game varies so much from grappling, even other grappling arts would show you new moves and ways to think.
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#14

Thoughts of leaving Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

Sounds like you should check out a decent MMA gym. If they're a reputable gym they'll have instructors for everything you need: MT, Boxing, BJJ, Wresting.

The gym I go to does teach and practice take downs, but I supplemented my BJJ training by cross training with Judo guys and wrestlers. Both at my school and at a local mma place [I just paid a mat fee]. Honestly if you're going up against an average joe they'll have no takedown or submission defense. You should be able to easily get them on the ground, get yourself in a good position, and quickly submit them; even if they weight 20 to 50 pounds more then you. If you're going up against multiple attackers you should be grabbing a weapon, or running. So unarmed combat shouldn't be too much of a factor. Except for "surprise" attackers that come out of the woodwork to attack you only when you're tied up, and there is no risk of harm to themselves. Not much you can do about that anyway though.

Also unless you plan on working in a blue collar job, or as unskilled labor for the rest of your career; you should consider the effect repeated blows to the head every training session will have on your cognitive ability. That and the fact that my rotator cuffs are prone to injury is why I never seriously trained stand up.

"Those who will not risk cannot win." -John Paul Jones
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#15

Thoughts of leaving Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

Quote: (10-03-2015 02:58 AM)mntrsx Wrote:  

I started to think of leaving the bjj and start something more practical like muay thai. The place that I train bjj teaches only ground fighting(we start on the ground), no throws or even takedowns so I feel it's almost useless. I tried other bjj schools and it's all the same. I still like bjj, but don't know what's the purpose to continue with this sport. Any advice?

The most practical disciplines to combat are BJJ, Wrestling and one form of stand-up [Boxing is typically best at establishing the fundamentals].

They have formed the basis of virtually every UFC Champion in history.

Joining an MMA gym [Any not some Mc Dojo] training each discipline once a week will build a fairly practical base.
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#16

Thoughts of leaving Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

Quote: (10-14-2015 08:52 AM)Rush87 Wrote:  

Quote: (10-03-2015 02:58 AM)mntrsx Wrote:  

I started to think of leaving the bjj and start something more practical like muay thai. The place that I train bjj teaches only ground fighting(we start on the ground), no throws or even takedowns so I feel it's almost useless. I tried other bjj schools and it's all the same. I still like bjj, but don't know what's the purpose to continue with this sport. Any advice?

The most practical disciplines to combat are BJJ, Wrestling and one form of stand-up [Boxing is typically best at establishing the fundamentals].

They have formed the basis of virtually every UFC Champion in history.

Joining an MMA gym [Any not some Mc Dojo] training each discipline once a week will build a fairly practical base.

I was with you up until this.

Anyone who has trained even slightly seriously knows that training any combat sport 1x per week will not get you anywhere. Even 2x per week won't get you shit. If you want to be able to defend yourself you better train at least 3x per week for months, probably years.

Instead of training 3 discipline 1x per week you are WAY better off training the ONE discipline you enjoy the most 3x per week.
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#17

Thoughts of leaving Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

Quote: (10-14-2015 05:22 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

Instead of training 3 discipline 1x per week you are WAY better off training the ONE discipline you enjoy the most 3x per week.

Gotta disagree with you there. I used to train out at TP Fight gym in the southern suburbs of Sydney. A guy I went to school with also frequented the gym. His background was rugby with zero combat experience.

He was able to put in this performance against a Judoka Olympian.






In my opinion consistency breeds results. He was doing 2x Weights per week. One wrestling, One BJJ and One boxing session.

Whilst I agree that it isn't the ideal circumstance - Over time the continual repetition of drilling takedowns, working on your guard and figuring out distance will create basic movement patterns that your natural fighting ability can thrive off.

I like to run boxing classes on the side [More for fun than anything else] and I honestly believe many men have that innate ability to fight. It's the brain that needs repetition to adapt.

From my experience 3 sessions per week will net you highly applicable results over time.
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#18

Thoughts of leaving Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

Quote: (10-03-2015 02:58 AM)mntrsx Wrote:  

I started to think of leaving the bjj and start something more practical like muay thai. The place that I train bjj teaches only ground fighting(we start on the ground), no throws or even takedowns so I feel it's almost useless. I tried other bjj schools and it's all the same. I still like bjj, but don't know what's the purpose to continue with this sport. Any advice?

I had the same experience with BJJ. And this was at a school that trained people for mma matches (as well as a big focus on BJJ competition). We did little practice on takedowns/standing grappling; the only people at the school with good takedown games already had it when the got there, from previous wrestling experience. Guys that started with BJJ tended to develop good guard/sweep game and often looked to pull guard.

As someone interested in martial arts from a self-defense/real world fighting perspective rather than a competition perspective, this left BJJ lacking for me. I've concluded that the absolute best thing to do in a real fight (multiple opponents excepted) is to knock or take your opponent down and be on top of him (or still standing). And the absolute worst thing to have happen is the reverse--be knocked or taken down with your opponent on top.

BJJ is good for surviving the second situation, and for controlling and dominating in the first. But it doesn't help determine which position you wind up in in the first place.

To your actual question: I agree with others who say look for a place to learn judo. You might even find a club where you can train for free or close to it. Judo seems to have more of a club organization rather than a pay a fee and take a class setup.
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#19

Thoughts of leaving Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

RioNomad wrote a great post about some of the problems with BJJ in another thread - thread-48483...pid1050527

I agree with everything he says and I think you should try to find a different school if you haven't already gone to all the schools in your area.

Depending on your level in BJJ it could make sense to train something else multiple times per week and train BJJ once to maintain your ground game.
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#20

Thoughts of leaving Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

Quote: (10-15-2015 09:59 AM)Ryre Wrote:  

To your actual question: I agree with others who say look for a place to learn judo. You might even find a club where you can train for free or close to it. Judo seems to have more of a club organization rather than a pay a fee and take a class setup.

My biggest issue with Judo is that it requires a clinch to be effective. As a woman Judo can be particularly dominant because females don't have the power to control distance. You can take repeated blows to the head with little damage and still engage in the clinch. As a man you'll get stopped.

A decent jab is all it takes for a man to maintain distance against a one dimensional judoka. This means on top of Judo you'll also need to break down feints, angles and footwork to close the distance.

I think for purely self defence wrestling is slightly better if you can't afford the time to devote to all the intricacies. With wrestling you can shoot from further out to secure the takedown and it really does gel perfectly with boxing. Feints and level changes can allow you to control at distance.
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#21

Thoughts of leaving Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

Quote: (10-15-2015 09:14 PM)Rush87 Wrote:  

I think for purely self defence wrestling is slightly better if you can't afford the time to devote to all the intricacies. With wrestling you can shoot from further out to secure the takedown and it really does gel perfectly with boxing. Feints and level changes can allow you to control at distance.

Let's put things back in their context about self defense and by that I don't mean drunk street fights where you sweep your opponent's feet and he is not able to stand back up because he is too drunk.
Nobody who want to defende himself will ever go in a bjj class even with judo background or mma class.
The first thing that need to be aware of is to stay far away from street fights where the only thing that matter is to dispose of your opponent body in a way that it won't come back at you.






Like in sex or work, in real life threatening situations: There is no rule and Basic Self defense is about acquiring the mental toughness to be able to hurt someone and go back to your life like nothing happened.

BJJ, Judo or wrestling won't beat a knife or gun (or even someone who is ready to hurt you no matter what) because you're not trained.
BJJ is not the way to be efficient but it is sure a way to gain control and have fun with like minded people.

Tell them too much, they wouldn't understand; tell them what they know, they would yawn.
They have to move up by responding to challenges, not too easy not too hard, until they paused at what they always think is the end of the road for all time instead of a momentary break in an endless upward spiral
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#22

Thoughts of leaving Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

Is it okay to flirt with your training partner? I really like her though. But I read this article, and it scares me a lot.

The Problem With Dating In The Academy

3 Reasons To Train Jiu-Jitsu Together

Need advice from the pros.
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#23

Thoughts of leaving Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

OP, would Krav Maga be available near you?
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#24

Thoughts of leaving Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

Quote: (04-19-2016 04:58 AM)Svoboda Wrote:  

OP, would Krav Maga be available near you?

I've been taking Krav Maga classes taught by a certified instructor from Israel for a couple of months now. It has been challenging to connect with all the moves/techniques, but well worth the time & investment as Krav Maga is practical, yet lethal, self-defense martial art.
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#25

Thoughts of leaving Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

I have been training BJJ for a few months and love rolling and the comraderie of the classes. Ive come accross some solid new brothers in the sport and we are starting to form a tight nit group... I really like those aspects.

I have come to the same conclusions about BJJ and will continue with BJJ and train periodicaly Krav Maga at immersion camps as there is no regular training near me.
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