[Wutang]

The thread on the migrant crisis was starting to into a religious debate on the relationship between atheism and all SJW causes that go along with it so I figured I'd start this thread so the discussion could continue here.

So anyone has any thoughts on why this is? I'm particularly interested in hearing from those who would consider themselves active atheists which I define it as someone who is makes their atheism a part of their identity since it would be to hear why you think your fellow co-nonreligionists (heh) behave in the way they do since I already know a lot of more traditionalist pro-religion people (who may actually not be religious themselves) are gonna chime in.

[The Lizard of Oz]

The reason for this is that the progressive/SJW ideology has been the principal (though by no means the only) way in which Western intellectual elites have responded to their belief in the philosophy of nihilism, the idea that because there is no God the world is known to be "meaningless". Since progressive ideology is a direct outgrowth of nihilism, it should come as no surprise that they go hand in hand.

I explained the connection in this thread (where I argued that certain strands of apocalyptic and ostensibly religious conservatism are also a direct response to the felt conviction of nihilism, just turned somewhat differently):

(06-28-2014 04:00 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

You are right about one thing: the progressive ideology in its current form has its roots in the loss of traditional religious faith among intelligent men at the turn of the last century, and the universal adoption by them of a metaphysics of nihilism, most clearly enunciated in the writings of Nietzsche. The conviction that has become universal among intelligent men since that time is that because there is no God, life and the entire universe are therefore necessarily "meaningless" and this realization of "meaninglessness" is somehow the one thing that is given once and for all, known all the way down the line. This taken-for-granted and universally shared idea, and the fear and panic that it engenders in men, is what really explains the structure both of progressive ideology, and of traditionalist ideologies that stand in seeming contradiction to it.

It is not true, however, to say that progressives have replaced religion with the "worship of man" -- far from it. The progressive obsession with "equality" and with the protection of "the weak" and various "victim groups" stems from the feeling that in a world known to be "meaningless" all the way down the line, the pain and suffering experienced by the weak is adding insult to injury -- and that makes it the one thing that cannot be tolerated. Therefore, there is a sacred status accorded to groups in proportion to how far they are removed and shielded from the knowledge of "meaninglessness": thus the obsession with more primitive and "other" cultures that have not yet attained this terrible knowledge; the sacralization of women, children and animals, that are seen as always molested and tortured; and the most logical conclusion of all, the worship of Gaia and the "environment", of things that are entirely inanimate. And therefore too, the special hatred reserved for the white man as the creature that has become aware of "meaninglessness" yet continues to forge ahead with its unseemly and obscene "greed" and hunger for "growth", always adding insult to injury with its relentless forward drive even when it has been "understood" that it can have no possible point -- that all we can do in a "meaningless" world is to protect the "weak" from "torture" and give them the "justice" that is to be our sole consolation.

[Phoenix]

'SJWism' isn't a thing. It's called leftism, or leftist activism more specifically.

Religion tends to be conservative, because all the religions are old and their books were written back when societies were conservative. Hence, because leftists are the opposite of 'conservative' (i.e. destructive or degenerate), and religions are conservative, religions are their enemy. Hence, atheism is their friend.

Some on the right advocate religion simply because of this: the more religion, the more restrained leftism is. But I don't think this is necessary. Confucianism in the east isn't religious (no god), its just a moral code, but it accomplishes similar goals of social order.

Really both sides get it wrong. The left are immoral but justify rejection of moral religions on the grounds of their subjective, arbitrary nature. The right are moral but fall back on "my religion says so" as the defence of their morals.

The concept of "objective morals" is the only way to reconcile this. You can be an atheist, as I am, and still have right-wing morals. Morals stem from the nature of people and the world. They aren't irrelevant, as the left behaves, and they aren't "given by god", as many on the right declare.

[Bill Brasky]

In short, if you don't have a relationship with God or some other sort of higher power, you will worship the self (ego) which needs validation from the Crowd. The self (ego) is very fragile and needs the world to behave in such a way as to affirm it as the source of its own existence. The interesting thing about atheism is that it does in fact have a "God," the ego is God.

[Baltimore Bachelor]

I got heavily involved with the atheist scene shortly after graduating high school and the annoying tendencies displayed by the atheists such as becoming internet trolls, the women turning themselves into freaks (trashy tattoos and piercings), and a few other things made me leave the movement.

Atheism isn't entirely a bad thing since it suggests that someone looks beyond what society has them believing but I don't agree with the notion that atheism is a conclusion. That being said, the atheist movement is what really is the problem because that's where you see a lot of these degenerate left-wing freaks (SJW's).

[Captainstabbin]

A lot also give Islam a pass - and any of the New Age or eastern religions, even the ones that profess a belief in gods, just not the Christian one. Seems they'll support anything that isn't Judeo-Christianity or rooted therein.

[Sombro]

Basically "Daddy Issues" writ large.

[KevCapitalist]

They are a religious group who follow religious dogma; they just reject the concept of God. Believing in human equality necitates either that humans are exempt from the rules of nature or have souls with 100% free will that overpower any genetic or biological factors.

I know one Athiest who bases his beliefs behind scientific research alone and he'd far from liberal. And he's generally positive toward Christians.

[BortimusPrime]

The root problem is that you had several popular atheist proselytizers back in the 2000s like Dawkins or Hitchens, and they developed a fanboy base consisting of quite a few stupid people. Unfortunately stupid people don't make good atheists, much in the same way that stupid people don't make very good Christians. In both cases the stupid person will dumb down their ideology into a simplistic set of catch phrases lacking any nuance or actual depth of thought.

Now, there's a long and rich tradition in the Judeo-Christian faiths of vague biblical passages that enable the stupid to misinterpret the spirit of their religion in the cause of violence and general promotion of even more stupidity. Atheism lacks a bible, but it still provides a void of a lack of objective meaning in existence, one which seems to drive people crazy trying to fill. Then you get the new Atheist movement trying to fill that void with social justice, as opposed to the old atheists who were a nerd minority filling that void with science or self improvement. Or learning Star Trek trivia.

Ironically, the New Atheists largely have abandoned their prophets of Hitchens and Dawkins, denouncing them as sexist cisgendered white males. I'm sure Dawkins forgives them, for they know not what they do.

[Eskhander]

So they can show off their in-crowd credentials

[Sonsowey]

It is in more ways than one, a new religion.

The puritan screech against the unfaithful. The missionary zeal. The unshakeable faith. The witch-hunts to punish those who don't follow the creed.

http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot...ified.html

[nek]

They both like to do as they please and avoid personal accountability

[Wutang]

(09-27-2015 07:01 PM)BortimusPrime Wrote:  

Ironically, the New Atheists largely have abandoned their prophets of Hitchens and Dawkins, denouncing them as sexist cisgendered white males. I'm sure Dawkins forgives them, for they know not what they do.

I've noticed that a good number of these SJW New Atheist types have turned against Dawkins in recent years too - mostly because now he's bringing the same heat to Islam that he's always done to Christianity as well as going against their causes such as when he defended Tim Hunt. I've always found him to be a blowhard when he would speak outside of his field of biology but I have gained some respect for him in recent years for at least not backing down and sticking to his guns when a lot of people would have been groveling for mercy. At least he is intellectually honest even if I do disagree with a lot of his platform.

[MikeS]

There may very well be a correlation, but as an atheist myself (and obviously sharing the same opinion of the moronic SJW culture as I assume virtually everyone else on this forum) I'm surprised my how much Christianity - could be any number of other religions as far as I'm concerned, I would be partial to Norse mythology, always enjoyed those stories - seems to be hailed lately as the road forward to save declining Western culture (or maybe it's more correct to say that I'm surprised by the apparent number of religious people on this forum).

As I said in another thread I actually think that could very well be the case given the strong traditional and moral values of religion properly practiced. However as an atheist (who doesn't give a crap about other atheists, it's not supposed to be a substitute religion, just a personal point of view) I'm obviously also of the opinion that believing in a god - and by extension being religious - is pure superstition, and that god x, y or z could just as well be substituted by aliens or flying spaghetti monsters, and I'm sure that anyone - religious or atheist - who's ever had a debate with someone of the opposite persuasion, knows that the other person will almost never be persuaded to turn into a (non)believer.
I say almost, because obviously millions of people over the centuries have been converted to various religions - by threats, by promises of a better life (or afterlife) or I'm sure in very rare cases by intellectual persuasion - but as a general rule I feel it's probably safe to say that almost no one of at least average intelligence, not living in complete desperation or poverty, is likely to turn religious as an adult if it wasn't already part of their upbringing or local society.

[Blaster]

It's because corporate and media elites want to wrest moral authority from religions. So they promote anyone who undermines the traditional Christian moral authority.

SJWs are driven by narcissism and approval-seeking, atheists are driven by frustrating experiences with organized religion. Atheists tend to be overly focused on organized religions, but aren't always, and are far more likely than SJWs to have self-awareness and rational faculties.

[ordinaryleastsquared]

I drifted from atheism as a younger dude, to non-dualism as elaborated by the 'entheogenic paradigm':

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nondualism

As swallowing the red pill or reading Nietzsche pulls of the curtains of the social fabric, so to does non duality pull of the comfort of the ego and allow a glimpse into deep reality... at least within the realm of biological existence.

[Gmac]

Quote:

The interesting thing about atheism is that it does in fact have a "God," the ego is God.

Quote:

Basically "Daddy Issues" writ large.

Quote:

They both like to do as they please and avoid personal accountability

Many of the answers here are the same short-sighted generalizations typically reserved for groups like feminists, SJWs, and MGTOWs on this forum. The difference is all of the people who enter these groups do so by choice. Interesting to see such a similar paradigm and how quick many of you are to judge and turn on other men for simply holding a different set of beliefs from your own. Had this thread been a poll I'd bet you'd be surprised how many closet atheists there are on this forum.

I wouldn't consider myself an "active" atheist or a leftist, but I think in any belief system there are going to be fringe fanatics and those who would take advantage of or cherry pick certain aspects to fit their own personal agenda. As an atheist, at times it can certainly put more responsibility on the person to keep themselves in check, whereas with a devout Catholic or Muslim the "rules" of what they can or cannot do are often more black and white. It's not my intention to oversimplify, but rather illustrate that point. So while it is not surprising to me that there are "fanatical" or "militant" atheists who can seem "just as bad", if not worse than their religious counterparts when they willingly allow their "egos" to spiral out of control... you can't simply lump all atheists together in the same group.

At the end of the day we don't actually choose what we believe, just as we don't choose how we were influenced growing up, where in the world we were born, how tall we are, or what kinds of girls we are attracted to. These are not factors in your control. You can't just will yourself to believe in some deity or doctrine just because it seems plausible to others when your rational brain is telling you otherwise. Perspective is key. Sometimes it's important to remember that people are all in very different places in their lives for an infinite number of reasons. Their priorities are not your priorities. What motivates them does not motivate you, and vice versa. We all have a different path to take, and we should accept that most of us are and will always be different. For the record, I'm not really a fan of big titties. There I said it.

[Sir Vigorous]

I was an active Atheist. In fact I started the Atheism club in my highschool.

People I know and were friends with who were atheist started to believe the SJW nonsense. It seemed like what the smart people believed. For a while it was pretty smart, at least on its face. We all independently outgrew that phase as our quest for logic ultimately showed SJW type thinking to be flawed. SJW'ism had become some new religion we didn't want to be apart of.

Two prominent youtube atheist , TheAmazingAtheist and Thunderf00t also took this path and make videos against SJWs. The correlation i see is that Acitive Atheist tend to be liberal and wierdos who think they are smart, and all sjw's are some version of liberal and wierdos who think they are smart. No need to bring in 'nihilism' and 'worship of the self'.


Also as an Atheist apart of Atheist groups I've never seen an Atheist struggle with a sense of 'nihilism'. That's just something I've heard religious people throw at us.

[RouteBackwards]

(09-27-2015 04:03 PM)Wutang Wrote:  

The thread on the migrant crisis was starting to into a religious debate on the relationship between atheism and all SJW causes that go along with it so I figured I'd start this thread so the discussion could continue here.

So anyone has any thoughts on why this is? I'm particularly interested in hearing from those who would consider themselves active atheists which I define it as someone who is makes their atheism a part of their identity since it would be to hear why you think your fellow co-nonreligionists (heh) behave in the way they do since I already know a lot of more traditionalist pro-religion people (who may actually not be religious themselves) are gonna chime in.

In my studies of psychology, one of the most profound pieces of literature was the correlations between existentialism and reaffirmation of ones world view. Now, it goes deeper than this, people are more likely to have stronger beliefs in a just world (ridiculous beliefs of equality for example) because it puts their existential concerns at ease. I do believe, that a lot of people do not actively think about existential concerns until they become older, and so you have students out of their parents homes for the first time who are exposed to life out of those confines, and thus I think this triggers some deeper thought then "wooo party! yeahhhhh!" that leads them to having existential concerns. These concerns leave them thinking about the sort of injustices around them, and they start to fetishize just-world ideologies as a result of these existential concerns.

Then, in turn, the existential concerns make them reaffirm their world views ignoring contradictory opinions or research.

[AFS]

Is there a thread on atheism on RVF? I was one of the people who fell into the religion debate on the migration thread. I'd like to comment here, but I don't really care what SJW's think. Sounds like guilt by association - Hitler was against smoking, so am I, thus do I become Hitler?

Any discussion on why certain groups follow Christianity also needs to mention that a religion and its cultural practices can be completely separate. SJW's do not want to be restrained by traditional Christian cultural practices - strong families, patriarchy, etc. Meanwhile many of the things we associate with conservative Christians in the states have nothing to do with Jesus or his teaching.

People are angry that Pope Francis is so liberal. Well, he is just following the spirit of the New Testament: give your shit to everybody, do everything for the poor, turn the other cheek, etc. Real New Testament type Christians, by dint of their religious philosophy, should be welcoming the migrants. Reality is different, where religious conservatives in Europe have more to do with nationalism than the teachings of the religion, so they are against the migration on cultural grounds.

Having said all that, the people who made me forsake Catholicism were the first true red pill people I had in my life: strong individuals who taught me how to be a man. All my catholic indoctrination taught me was to be ashamed of male sexuality, and to be nice/non-judgmental to everyone no matter how stupid or shitty they are. To me, that's the SJW philosophy to a T.

Certainly when it comes to the migrant crisis conservative religious folks are our allies because they are aligned with nationalism. But if this crisis wasn't forced on us, I have no illusions that they are the worst people to have in power here. For one thing, I don't want to be arrested for "insulting religion," which is an actual law in Poland.

[Hygiene]

(09-28-2015 07:28 AM)Sir Vigorous Wrote:  

Also as an Atheist apart of Atheist groups I've never seen an Atheist struggle with a sense of 'nihilism'. That's just something I've heard religious people throw at us.

I think anyone paying attention has known some nihilism.

Atheism as an ideology is a sign of decline.

[Wutang]

(09-29-2015 02:05 AM)AFS Wrote:  

I'd like to comment here, but I don't really care what SJW's think. Sounds like guilt by association - Hitler was against smoking, so am I, thus do I become Hitler?

I definitely do not think there's any necessary logical connection between being an atheist and being a SJW. But nonetheless the two seem to constantly be found together in today's social climate and I was just wondering why this is so and more specifically if there is anything psychological that tends to make people associate the two positions as being bound together.

I think it would be fair to say while many atheists are not SJWs, many SJWs are atheists.

[Easy_C]

Because the militant atheism that you're thinking of is a subset of SJW-ism, not the other way around.

Let me explain. As we all know, SJWs believe that white, cis-gendered, European males are to blame for all the world's problems. Religion and specifically Christianity was created by white cis-gendered European males.....which means that it is merely a tool that they made in order to protect their privilege throughout history.

That's why militant atheists really mean "I hate christianity". Christianity is a tool of white cis-gendered oppression, whereas Islam and Buddhism were not created by white cis-gendered males and therefore are underprivileged religions. It thus follows that they are not oppressive systems or fairy tales, but are part of said racial minorities' beautiful culture heritage and need to be respected and deferred to at all times.


Not that they consciously realize it......but to trunctuate what I just added with what we all know about SJW psychology gives you a short version: militant atheists hate Christianity because doing so is an expression of the self loathing they feel.

[tynamite]

SJW's tend to be atheists because they're moral relativists. As they reject the objective morality of god, and even their own morals, they see all moral systems as equal and duplicitously switch between different moral codes. You have to be careful of such people.

You have to be mindful of someone who'll get someone arrested for manspreading whilst doing nothing to put women into STEM. That's their priorities.

[Phoenix]

(09-30-2015 09:24 AM)tynamite Wrote:  

SJW's tend to be atheists because they're moral relativists. As they reject the objective morality of god, and even their own morals, they see all moral systems as equal and duplicitously switch between different moral codes.

Because there are many gods, believed in by many different people, it is subjective morality, not objective morality. Objective morality means a morality derived from common observations of the world, not from the dictates of random priests and old books.