rooshvforum.network is a fully functional forum: you can search, register, post new threads etc...
Old accounts are inaccessible: register a new one, or recover it when possible. x


NASA to Announce Mars Mystery Solved on Monday
#26

NASA to Announce Mars Mystery Solved on Monday

What, flowing water on Mars? Excellent!

[Image: E4jeTmM.jpg]
Reply
#27

NASA to Announce Mars Mystery Solved on Monday

Quote: (09-29-2015 01:48 AM)AFS Wrote:  

Am I the only one who is unimpressed? We already knew there was water on Mars since 2005:

http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_...north_pole

I'm not saying this isn't an important discovery, it certainly is. But the way they framed the "announcement" made everyone think they would say they found life on Mars. Let's get real, that's the only reason people paid attention to this announcement. It's NASA's version of clickbait.

I'm fine with NASA clickbait. They need all the attention they can get and I'm fine with giving it to them.

TEAM VASECTOMY
Reply
#28

NASA to Announce Mars Mystery Solved on Monday

Quote: (09-29-2015 01:48 AM)AFS Wrote:  

Am I the only one who is unimpressed? We already knew there was water on Mars since 2005:

http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_...north_pole

I'm not saying this isn't an important discovery, it certainly is. But the way they framed the "announcement" made everyone think they would say they found life on Mars. Let's get real, that's the only reason people paid attention to this announcement. It's NASA's version of clickbait.

That's ice; the current discovery points to liquid flowing on the surface and implies liquid below the surface. That's where the microbes might grow, because liquid can support the chemical reactions for life. Look for them to send drilling rovers nearby in the early to mid 2020s.

Not clickbait, major discovery.
Reply
#29

NASA to Announce Mars Mystery Solved on Monday

A dissenting opinion:

Quote:Quote:

We had no direct detection of water; that was just our best guess as to what these were.”

Now, Crism has demonstrated that the RSLs are covered with salts.

http://realclimatescience.com/2015/09/na...r-the-day/
Reply
#30

NASA to Announce Mars Mystery Solved on Monday

Quote: (09-29-2015 09:21 PM)Pacesetter20 Wrote:  

A dissenting opinion:

Quote:Quote:

We had no direct detection of water; that was just our best guess as to what these were.”

Now, Crism has demonstrated that the RSLs are covered with salts.

http://realclimatescience.com/2015/09/na...r-the-day/

The salts are hydrated salts, they appear during the warmer seasons, and correspond to darker features (as dirt gets wet you must have noticed it gets darker). Not sure what else it could be, liquid CO2 wouldn't work. The rovers will confirm water with APXRS.

The full story from NASA does not include the quote from realclimatescience:

Using an imaging spectrometer on MRO, researchers detected signatures of hydrated minerals on slopes where mysterious streaks are seen on the Red Planet. These darkish streaks appear to ebb and flow over time. They darken and appear to flow down steep slopes during warm seasons, and then fade in cooler seasons. They appear in several locations on Mars when temperatures are above minus 10 degrees Fahrenheit (minus 23 Celsius), and disappear at colder times.

“Our quest on Mars has been to ‘follow the water,’ in our search for life in the universe, and now we have convincing science that validates what we’ve long suspected,” said John Grunsfeld, astronaut and associate administrator of NASA’s Science Mission Directorate in Washington. “This is a significant development, as it appears to confirm that water -- albeit briny -- is flowing today on the surface of Mars.”

These downhill flows, known as recurring slope lineae (RSL), often have been described as possibly related to liquid water. The new findings of hydrated salts on the slopes point to what that relationship may be to these dark features. The hydrated salts would lower the freezing point of a liquid brine, just as salt on roads here on Earth causes ice and snow to melt more rapidly. Scientists say it’s likely a shallow subsurface flow, with enough water wicking to the surface to explain the darkening.

Garni crater on Mars
Dark narrow streaks called recurring slope lineae emanating out of the walls of Garni crater on Mars. The dark streaks here are up to few hundred meters in length. They are hypothesized to be formed by flow of briny liquid water on Mars. The image is produced by draping an orthorectified (RED) image (ESP_031059_1685) on a Digital Terrain Model (DTM) of the same site produced by High Resolution Imaging Science Experiment (University of Arizona). Vertical exaggeration is 1.5.
Credits: NASA/JPL/University of Arizona
Full image and caption
"We found the hydrated salts only when the seasonal features were widest, which suggests that either the dark streaks themselves or a process that forms them is the source of the hydration. In either case, the detection of hydrated salts on these slopes means that water plays a vital role in the formation of these streaks," said Lujendra Ojha of the Georgia Institute of Technology (Georgia Tech) in Atlanta, lead author of a report on these findings published Sept. 28 by Nature Geoscience.

Ojha first noticed these puzzling features as a University of Arizona undergraduate student in 2010, using images from the MRO's High Resolution Imaging Science Experiment (HiRISE). HiRISE observations now have documented RSL at dozens of sites on Mars. The new study pairs HiRISE observations with mineral mapping by MRO’s Compact Reconnaissance Imaging Spectrometer for Mars (CRISM).

The spectrometer observations show signatures of hydrated salts at multiple RSL locations, but only when the dark features were relatively wide. When the researchers looked at the same locations and RSL weren't as extensive, they detected no hydrated salt.

Ojha and his co-authors interpret the spectral signatures as caused by hydrated minerals called perchlorates. The hydrated salts most consistent with the chemical signatures are likely a mixture of magnesium perchlorate, magnesium chlorate and sodium perchlorate. Some perchlorates have been shown to keep liquids from freezing even when conditions are as cold as minus 94 degrees Fahrenheit (minus 70 Celsius). On Earth, naturally produced perchlorates are concentrated in deserts, and some types of perchlorates can be used as rocket propellant.

Perchlorates have previously been seen on Mars. NASA's Phoenix lander and Curiosity rover both found them in the planet's soil, and some scientists believe that the Viking missions in the 1970s measured signatures of these salts. However, this study of RSL detected perchlorates, now in hydrated form, in different areas than those explored by the landers. This also is the first time perchlorates have been identified from orbit.

MRO has been examining Mars since 2006 with its six science instruments.

"The ability of MRO to observe for multiple Mars years with a payload able to see the fine detail of these features has enabled findings such as these: first identifying the puzzling seasonal streaks and now making a big step towards explaining what they are," said Rich Zurek, MRO project scientist at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) in Pasadena, California.

For Ojha, the new findings are more proof that the mysterious lines he first saw darkening Martian slopes five years ago are, indeed, present-day water.

"When most people talk about water on Mars, they're usually talking about ancient water or frozen water," he said. "Now we know there’s more to the story. This is the first spectral detection that unambiguously supports our liquid water-formation hypotheses for RSL."

The discovery is the latest of many breakthroughs by NASA’s Mars missions.

“It took multiple spacecraft over several years to solve this mystery, and now we know there is liquid water on the surface of this cold, desert planet,” said Michael Meyer, lead scientist for NASA’s Mars Exploration Program at the agency’s headquarters in Washington. “It seems that the more we study Mars, the more we learn how life could be supported and where there are resources to support life in the future.”
Reply
#31

NASA to Announce Mars Mystery Solved on Monday

I read somewhere that these findings came out months ago, and this is actually just a promotional tie in with the new Matt Damon movie, "The Martian". I read this book, and it was very good, so I'm going to see the movie.

As for the actual announcement, I think it would be hard to make much use of this water. Most likely any Martian colony is still going to be processing Martian dirt and air to chemically separate hydrogen and oxygen, then combine them to get water.

I'm the tower of power, too sweet to be sour. I'm funky like a monkey. Sky's the limit and space is the place!
-Randy Savage
Reply
#32

NASA to Announce Mars Mystery Solved on Monday

Quote: (10-01-2015 02:09 PM)RoastBeefCurtains4Me Wrote:  

I read somewhere that these findings came out months ago, and this is actually just a promotional tie in with the new Matt Damon movie, "The Martian". I read this book, and it was very good, so I'm going to see the movie.

As for the actual announcement, I think it would be hard to make much use of this water. Most likely any Martian colony is still going to be processing Martian dirt and air to chemically separate hydrogen and oxygen, then combine them to get water.

I agree, this flowing water is in an inconvenient place (sides of steep hill). There's plenty in the plains (several percent by mass in the top few meters). All of it everywhere is going to be heavily perchlorated except the relatively pure stuff at the poles. In any case we need to use what's there, can't bring enough from earth.

No way NASA collaborated with a studio on the timing. It may seem that way, but it's just not how it works. Scientists are always in a rush to publish, they only hold up to cross check important or fantastic results. This one wasn't that complicated from an analysis standpoint (overlay pix and data from different times), so I'm sure they published it ASAP. It may have taken months to get through the peer review process before publishing in a major journal, that's normal.
Reply
#33

NASA to Announce Mars Mystery Solved on Monday

Not so much that they coordinated with the studio. More that they are jumping on the bandwagon. NASA is highly focused on creating public interest in their space activities, almost more so than in the activities themselves. My understanding was that the scientists already had published, and this was just pure public relations.

I could be wrong about the details here, but the idea of NASA milking public attention whenever they can is a reality. That's why every one of their facilities has been turned into an amusement park.

I'm the tower of power, too sweet to be sour. I'm funky like a monkey. Sky's the limit and space is the place!
-Randy Savage
Reply
#34

NASA to Announce Mars Mystery Solved on Monday

Quote: (10-01-2015 05:00 PM)RoastBeefCurtains4Me Wrote:  

Not so much that they coordinated with the studio. More that they are jumping on the bandwagon. NASA is highly focused on creating public interest in their space activities, almost more so than in the activities themselves. My understanding was that the scientists already had published, and this was just pure public relations.

I could be wrong about the details here, but the idea of NASA milking public attention whenever they can is a reality. That's why every one of their facilities has been turned into an amusement park.

Public outreach is ~1% of the NASA budget. Education and public outreach were zeroed out for a while recently. I don't even know what you're talking about with the amusement park thing, please elaborate.
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)