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Building a foundation with a foreign woman
#1

Building a foundation with a foreign woman

For those of you who have married or dated long-term with a foreign woman, how did you build that relationship, that foundation? How did you get your mind around the cultural/identity/geography differences? How do you navigate these differences? If you marry and have children, how do you get your mind around having your relatives divided between two countries/cultures? How do your children develop solid identities?

Currently, I am dating a Mexican woman. We have the romance, attraction, common interests, starting to grasp each other's vibe; but we've already encountered some verbal/emotional miscommunications and the nuances of cultural differences, different identities, loyalties, etc. She's indomestiza Mexican, more first world/urban, but definitely not a fresa. She and her family are a good example of the emerging Mexican middle class. College-educated, Protestant/religious, American-savvy (she speaks fluent English and lived in the USA for several years when she was younger), well-travelled, planning to start a family business.

I'm an American white man, still working on my conversational Spanish skills and trying to learn more about Mexican culture and LTR game with a Mexican woman. I am fascinated with Mexico, but definitely feel a bit more naturally comfortable and partial to the more American/European-ish aspects of the country and culture. I haven't traveled much through the rest of LA, but from what I've studied/heard, I would also be more attracted to the regions that are more Western influenced (Argentina, Chile, urban Colombia, etc).

I also have some questions/concerns about how the future would look if I married a girl like this. She would probably come to the USA and have kids with me. When you do something like this, what do your kids become? American? Bi-cultural? Does your foreign wife Americanize some? Do you make compromises and sort of become at least a part of her culture as well? Will her culture accept you or always see you as somewhat foreign?

I'm just curious to hear stories of how some of you have gone about the cultural nuances, communication, logistics, families, and family identity. Any tips on LTR Game with Latin women would be appreciated as well. [Image: wink.gif]
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#2

Building a foundation with a foreign woman

It looks like this belongs in the Game portion of this board.
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#3

Building a foundation with a foreign woman

Better suited for the game forum, but I'll throw in my two cents.

Personally for me, I think children should adopt the culture and linguistic heritage of their father. So, technically yes they will be "bi-racial" and they can definitely benefit from calling themselves "latino" on college admission applications, but I would leave the cultural differences at that. Your kids should be considered American and be raised with whatever your values are if you plan on raising said children in the US. Your wife should be comfortable with that. Don't be afraid of letting them dabble in Mexican culture however. They will definitely benefit from being versed in both since America will become a spanish country in their lifetimes.

However, i's throw this all out the window if you plan on living in Mexico. You'd have to adopt more Mexican customs which I'd say I don't really have much of a suggestion for how to do this.

As for managing your future wife, i'd gather the only way to overcome those linguistic and cultural differences is to become 100% fluent in Spanish. That way you can get things explained to you in her native language instead of it getting sloshed in translation.

This is personally a gut feeling on how I would deal with it. I have zero experience in such matters and would defer to gentlemen here who have gone through this when they post.

Good luck!
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#4

Building a foundation with a foreign woman

Agreed. As This may belong under game.

My two cents:

I have been dating a Colombian for about 12 months and she has moved in with me to live in the us. We are past the going through the getting to know each other phase and now have entered the difference phase now.

She was born and raised in medellin and I speak fluent Spanish but am not of Hispanic background. The primary difference in cultures appears to be a general cavalier attitude towards preparing for the future. It seems many Latinas I have dated have a "god will provide " attitude and Just throw caution to the wind with budgeting. She basically told me what is the point of saving money if we could possibly die tomorrow. This irritated the hell out of me.

In addition , I work a lot sometimes 12 to 14 hours a day and her attitude towards children seemed as if she would take care of them with her family as I continued to work. She didn't bring my side of the family up whatsoever.

As previous poster said you must learn Spanish fully and immerse yourself in the culture by being with her family.

Good luck.
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#5

Building a foundation with a foreign woman

You should adopt the culture and language of the country you will live in, but if you live in Mexico your kids should also study English. It is a dominant language. There is no getting away from it. You would be doing your kids a disservice if you created an environment where he/she could not learn English properly but still would have lots of dealings with the US.

I live in South Africa right now, which has 11 (yes) official languages. English is only the 4th most spoken language in households, but a person has exactly zero percent chance of getting ahead if he does not understand it, or speaks it very poorly. Occasionally you will get someone who decries this fact and mumbles something about how all 11 languages should be treated equally in terms of the constitution. But it is hopeless. English is the "Lingua Franca" (Ha, should be called the 'Lingua Anglais' now) and there is nothing that can be done about it .

So, wherever you live, and whatever cultural background you raise your children in make sure they can speak English very, very well. Doing otherwise in your situation would basically amount to child abuse.
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#6

Building a foundation with a foreign woman

Pyrrhic victory, you've moved in with a piasa in the US after dating her for 12 months? And you've had business success. Protect yourself.
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#7

Building a foundation with a foreign woman

Gringuito:

Agreed fully. She thinks I work as a construction employee and does now know the extend of my business holdings. I live an extremely low key lifestyle which was even shocking to her.

one bedroom apartment , rarely eat out.
I only have sex with a condom that I provide and have insisted she is in a birth control implant as back up.

She has a greencard already and was living in the us before moving in with me. Basically all colombian women I've met in medellin and Cali always have hidden agendas.

I will keep you updated as this progresses.
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#8

Building a foundation with a foreign woman

I personally learned the foreign language though a male teacher( had a female teacher on the side just to game and talk ) basically all girls are the same once you learn the language even a good basic. Its especially useful when you look foreign because they will be surprised and always great conversation to put you ahead

Adam says to God, "God, why did you make women so soft ?"
God says, "So that you will like them."
Adam says to God, "God, why did you make women so warm and cuddly?"
God says, "So that you will like them."
Adam says to God, "But, God, why did you make them so stupid?"
God says, "So that they will like you"
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#9

Building a foundation with a foreign woman

OP can you provide some more detail about yourself and her such as your family backgrounds.
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#10

Building a foundation with a foreign woman

I'm not at all surprised that this is a question.

>When you do something like this, what do your kids >become? American? Bi-cultural?

Too Mexican for most white Americans and too American for most Mexicans. Very basic Spanish from the standpoint of a real Mexicano. It's not just language but the cultural lessons that come from growing up with the culture.

Expect teasing at school and discrimination throughout their lives.

Whether or not they personally identify with their Latino heritage depends on the upbringing, other people will label them and treat them as such.

And that will be their lives. Not really a problem per se, millions have find through it, but millions more put them through it.

>Does your foreign wife Americanize some?

Yes, in comparison to her sisters who stay home. But it's relative. Women change with their husbands. Regardless of her heritage, it's your job to teach and lead. Building a life is a lot bigger than dating. PM Traveler Kai.

>Do you make compromises and sort of become at least a part of her culture as well?

You can. Maybe you should. Typical Western set up, the woman is in charge of the house. That kind of power can get out of hand.

> Will her culture accept you or always see you as somewhat foreign?

"She's the one who married the gringo. "

Someone will always be saying that. But even if you were Mexican, somebody would say something about something.

WIA
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#11

Building a foundation with a foreign woman

Quote: (09-18-2015 07:44 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  

For those of you who have married or dated long-term with a foreign woman, how did you build that relationship, that foundation? How did you get your mind around the cultural/identity/geography differences? How do you navigate these differences? If you marry and have children, how do you get your mind around having your relatives divided between two countries/cultures? How do your children develop solid identities?

Currently, I am dating a Mexican woman. We have the romance, attraction, common interests, starting to grasp each other's vibe; but we've already encountered some verbal/emotional miscommunications and the nuances of cultural differences, different identities, loyalties, etc. She's indomestiza Mexican, more first world/urban, but definitely not a fresa. She and her family are a good example of the emerging Mexican middle class. College-educated, Protestant/religious, American-savvy (she speaks fluent English and lived in the USA for several years when she was younger), well-travelled, planning to start a family business.

I'm an American white man, still working on my conversational Spanish skills and trying to learn more about Mexican culture and LTR game with a Mexican woman. I am fascinated with Mexico, but definitely feel a bit more naturally comfortable and partial to the more American/European-ish aspects of the country and culture. I haven't traveled much through the rest of LA, but from what I've studied/heard, I would also be more attracted to the regions that are more Western influenced (Argentina, Chile, urban Colombia, etc).

I also have some questions/concerns about how the future would look if I married a girl like this. She would probably come to the USA and have kids with me. When you do something like this, what do your kids become? American? Bi-cultural? Does your foreign wife Americanize some? Do you make compromises and sort of become at least a part of her culture as well? Will her culture accept you or always see you as somewhat foreign?

I'm just curious to hear stories of how some of you have gone about the cultural nuances, communication, logistics, families, and family identity. Any tips on LTR Game with Latin women would be appreciated as well. [Image: wink.gif]
Where do you and she live (region is ok I am just asking if this is long distance and or if you are living in mexico) Both in SoCal?

How did she become Protestant?

Who will pay for this business of hers?

What do you do and generally what is your "status?"

Her age and your age range?

Her entire family lives where?

Oh and does she have kids.

You have only said you are white and don't know Spanish.


And please explain what this means:
but we've already encountered some verbal/emotional miscommunications and the nuances of cultural differences, different identities, loyalties, etc.




I will answer you in detail.
Reply
#12

Building a foundation with a foreign woman

Quote: (09-19-2015 12:51 PM)Pyrrhic victory Wrote:  

Agreed. As This may belong under game.

My two cents:

I have been dating a Colombian for about 12 months and she has moved in with me to live in the us. We are past the going through the getting to know each other phase and now have entered the difference phase now.

She was born and raised in medellin and I speak fluent Spanish but am not of Hispanic background. The primary difference in cultures appears to be a general cavalier attitude towards preparing for the future. It seems many Latinas I have dated have a "god will provide " attitude and Just throw caution to the wind with budgeting. She basically told me what is the point of saving money if we could possibly die tomorrow. This irritated the hell out of me.

In addition , I work a lot sometimes 12 to 14 hours a day and her attitude towards children seemed as if she would take care of them with her family as I continued to work. She didn't bring my side of the family up whatsoever.

As previous poster said you must learn Spanish fully and immerse yourself in the culture by being with her family.

Good luck.

provider victory i mean Pyrrhic victory,
the reason she trashes your money is to keep you in a fog, working these hours and making ever more.
for shopping not for building something for the future.
Reply
#13

Building a foundation with a foreign woman

Quote: (09-28-2015 12:49 PM)offthereservation Wrote:  

Quote: (09-18-2015 07:44 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  

For those of you who have married or dated long-term with a foreign woman, how did you build that relationship, that foundation? How did you get your mind around the cultural/identity/geography differences? How do you navigate these differences? If you marry and have children, how do you get your mind around having your relatives divided between two countries/cultures? How do your children develop solid identities?

Currently, I am dating a Mexican woman. We have the romance, attraction, common interests, starting to grasp each other's vibe; but we've already encountered some verbal/emotional miscommunications and the nuances of cultural differences, different identities, loyalties, etc. She's indomestiza Mexican, more first world/urban, but definitely not a fresa. She and her family are a good example of the emerging Mexican middle class. College-educated, Protestant/religious, American-savvy (she speaks fluent English and lived in the USA for several years when she was younger), well-travelled, planning to start a family business.

I'm an American white man, still working on my conversational Spanish skills and trying to learn more about Mexican culture and LTR game with a Mexican woman. I am fascinated with Mexico, but definitely feel a bit more naturally comfortable and partial to the more American/European-ish aspects of the country and culture. I haven't traveled much through the rest of LA, but from what I've studied/heard, I would also be more attracted to the regions that are more Western influenced (Argentina, Chile, urban Colombia, etc).

I also have some questions/concerns about how the future would look if I married a girl like this. She would probably come to the USA and have kids with me. When you do something like this, what do your kids become? American? Bi-cultural? Does your foreign wife Americanize some? Do you make compromises and sort of become at least a part of her culture as well? Will her culture accept you or always see you as somewhat foreign?

I'm just curious to hear stories of how some of you have gone about the cultural nuances, communication, logistics, families, and family identity. Any tips on LTR Game with Latin women would be appreciated as well. [Image: wink.gif]
Quote:Quote:

Where do you and she live (region is ok I am just asking if this is long distance and or if you are living in mexico) Both in SoCal?

I live in Chicago and she's in Jalisco.

Quote:Quote:

How did she become Protestant?

A few of her elders became born-again Protestants, then it spread through part of her family. They are pretty conservative. Some of her family are Catholics.

Quote:Quote:

Who will pay for this business of hers?

No detailed plans for that yet.

Quote:Quote:

What do you do and generally what is your "status?"

Mechanical Engineer with a BSME.

Quote:Quote:

Her age and your age range?

I'm 34 and she's 29.

Quote:Quote:

Her entire family lives where?

They're mostly in Oaxaca, Jalisco and Zacatecas. She and her parents lived in Texas for several years where she completed an AA degree. Her brother still lives and works for a tech company in Texas. They're pretty American savvy Mexicans. She speaks fluent English and her dad regularly travels to the USA and other countries. They're fairly international people.

Quote:Quote:

Oh and does she have kids.

Hell no!

Quote:Quote:

You have only said you are white and don't know Spanish.

I know passable conversational Spanish, but need to improve to understand the deeper nuances of romantic, social, cultural, emotional topics.


Quote:Quote:

And please explain what this means:
but we've already encountered some verbal/emotional miscommunications and the nuances of cultural differences, different identities, loyalties, etc.

She seems to have a negative/pessimistic attitude sometimes as if she doesn't understand why I would be interested in her, doesn't think she is deserving of me. I don't know. The first time I visited her, I kissed her on the cheek as a sign of flirting/interest, she later told me she though that meant that I only wanted to be friends with her. Some of it has to do with her inexperience moreso than any cultural difference -- she's never had a serious boyfriend before.




I will answer you in detail.
Reply
#14

Building a foundation with a foreign woman

Quote: (09-28-2015 01:38 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  

Quote: (09-28-2015 12:49 PM)offthereservation Wrote:  

Quote: (09-18-2015 07:44 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  

For those of you who have married or dated long-term with a foreign woman, how did you build that relationship, that foundation? How did you get your mind around the cultural/identity/geography differences? How do you navigate these differences? If you marry and have children, how do you get your mind around having your relatives divided between two countries/cultures? How do your children develop solid identities?

Currently, I am dating a Mexican woman. We have the romance, attraction, common interests, starting to grasp each other's vibe; but we've already encountered some verbal/emotional miscommunications and the nuances of cultural differences, different identities, loyalties, etc. She's indomestiza Mexican, more first world/urban, but definitely not a fresa. She and her family are a good example of the emerging Mexican middle class. College-educated, Protestant/religious, American-savvy (she speaks fluent English and lived in the USA for several years when she was younger), well-travelled, planning to start a family business.

I'm an American white man, still working on my conversational Spanish skills and trying to learn more about Mexican culture and LTR game with a Mexican woman. I am fascinated with Mexico, but definitely feel a bit more naturally comfortable and partial to the more American/European-ish aspects of the country and culture. I haven't traveled much through the rest of LA, but from what I've studied/heard, I would also be more attracted to the regions that are more Western influenced (Argentina, Chile, urban Colombia, etc).

I also have some questions/concerns about how the future would look if I married a girl like this. She would probably come to the USA and have kids with me. When you do something like this, what do your kids become? American? Bi-cultural? Does your foreign wife Americanize some? Do you make compromises and sort of become at least a part of her culture as well? Will her culture accept you or always see you as somewhat foreign?

I'm just curious to hear stories of how some of you have gone about the cultural nuances, communication, logistics, families, and family identity. Any tips on LTR Game with Latin women would be appreciated as well. [Image: wink.gif]
Quote:Quote:

Where do you and she live (region is ok I am just asking if this is long distance and or if you are living in mexico) Both in SoCal?

I live in Chicago and she's in Jalisco.

Quote:Quote:

How did she become Protestant?

A few of her elders became born-again Protestants, then it spread through part of her family. They are pretty conservative. Some of her family are Catholics.

Quote:Quote:

Who will pay for this business of hers?

No detailed plans for that yet.

Quote:Quote:

What do you do and generally what is your "status?"

Mechanical Engineer with a BSME.

Quote:Quote:

Her age and your age range?

I'm 34 and she's 29.

Quote:Quote:

Her entire family lives where?

They're mostly in Oaxaca, Jalisco and Zacatecas. She and her parents lived in Texas for several years where she completed an AA degree. Her brother still lives and works for a tech company in Texas. They're pretty American savvy Mexicans. She speaks fluent English and her dad regularly travels to the USA and other countries. They're fairly international people.

Quote:Quote:

Oh and does she have kids.

Hell no!

Quote:Quote:

You have only said you are white and don't know Spanish.

I know passable conversational Spanish, but need to improve to understand the deeper nuances of romantic, social, cultural, emotional topics.


Quote:Quote:

And please explain what this means:
but we've already encountered some verbal/emotional miscommunications and the nuances of cultural differences, different identities, loyalties, etc.

She seems to have a negative/pessimistic attitude sometimes as if she doesn't understand why I would be interested in her, doesn't think she is deserving of me. I don't know. The first time I visited her, I kissed her on the cheek as a sign of flirting/interest, she later told me she though that meant that I only wanted to be friends with her. Some of it has to do with her inexperience moreso than any cultural difference -- she's never had a serious boyfriend before.




I will answer you in detail.

Thanks OP for all the detail. This really helps forum posters see the whole picture.

I am coming at you with the perspective of being about 10 years older than you and having both married and divorced and LTRd and STRd Latina women. Also, I would be willing to bet I have been to more of Latin America than anyone on this board. Now I like a lot about Mexican culture but I am not going to be your cheerleader today. So let me play devils advocate and get you thinking about some bigtime life questions dude. I bring you my opinion and observations, as no man can judge your situation fully like you can. So I as a perfect stranger will tell you what I see...

Well there are a lot of issues here so in no particular order.

1. Your title about building a foundation.
Since you are a man of the Bible I refer to the Bible. You cannot build your house on sand. If there is no foundation then there is no foundation. I sense you are trying to convince yourself there is more there than exists in reality based on your going on about education etc. Education is a value in Mexico so don't use superficial measures to trick yourself that there is something there, if you actually want something more, as in more foundation to go forward. You are not too old so get over that crap.

2. Your own state.
Many many before me on this forum have said in game don't allow your hunger to ruin your game. Do not allow your hunger for a wife to ruin your thinking.

3. This family business business.
What this means to me is that you are being groomed for a new job. That job is venture capitalist. I can almost assure you as if I had a magic dictionary that an aspiring merchant girl from Mexico saying this to you (and you have not bothered to discuss who will fund this) means that by DEFAULT you are the funding source. So not only will you have the instant strain of a girlfriend or wife AND THE MONEY THAT GETS SENT TO MEXICO, you will also be a venture capitalist for whatever dream she has. Unless you are a dream-crushing motherfucker who say no that is no my fucking problem! I say this to you as a guy who built one of the most beautiful hair salons in America and has nothing to show for it except this advice to you!! [Image: fatbanana.gif][Image: fatbanana.gif]

4. Long distance
Wow dude you have the danger of falling in love with the fantasy of what ever you think she is since you don't really know her.

5. Class
The most under appreciated aspect of international relationships.
Yep I said it.

I want you to know that there is an element I have observed over and over again in Latina - American guy relationships. It is so subtle and so profound it may be the #1 reason for outright failure of these relationships (they don't all fail) or a nagging and growing sense of dissatisfaction on the guy part.

This is going to sound harsh but it goes something like this. MANY of these girls basically have no self esteem. Then along comes the white knight American who treats them with respect, listens to them whine and bitch, and generally tells them "it will be ok." (Does this already describe you?) This gets a reward at first. Then somewhere along the line the guy wonders what has happened. In actuality self esteem comes from rational values and rational living, as opposed to paranoia, superstition, and manipulative families and societies. So you shower this girl with esteem and it backfires one day because she has an internal message playing that says "if he respects me and i don't even respect myself what does that make me, i guess he is a bigger piece of shit than me." Now begin the bad treatment. Meanwhile you nag and whine trying to change her back and just cant figure out what happened. WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO YOUR LITTLE LOVELY LATINA PRINCESS?? Could be after you have kids or before but ask around, this has happened to a lot of guys. Maybe you found the unicorn dude how the fuck should i know?

Also she is not middle class like you know it but you will make her middle class. Middle class there can be 10k a year. Ask the tough questions that our protestant upbringing told us not to. How much money does your dad make in order to live like that in Mexico?

You also should consider the implications with the society that you live and work in. It is one thing to bring a girl around who blends in and can talk to your friends and friends wives, it is another to bring the one everyone thinks is the maid. Sorry to be harsh you asked bro.

6. Women are a commodity in most Latin cultures. Or at least their cultures still function as such. You need to ask hard questions. Why was she not taken at 21 and impregnated and made the good wife of a good family in her town? FIND OUT. They don't leave many good ones behind. Sorry to break it to you but 29 is totally passed over in that culture. Add 15 years for the cultural equivalent.

7. WCS
Worst case you need to ask yourself if you want a woman taking your kids to Mexico if the shit hits the fan. If you are not 100% certain who she is why don't you find out before you get hot and heavy. It does not sound like you are going to pump and dump or we would not be having this thread.

8. Best thing in your info, the family connections to the US. Scariest is this lack of experience and strange conflict you are having before this even gets going.

9. And finally you. You have other threads wanting to travel etc. So whats it going to be? Travel the world on some engineering job for a few years or bring the princess to chicago and make little ones.

The only "advice" I will give you if you go forward is never compromise your standing as a man for a (Latina) woman. She will lose all respect for you. You advance in your career etc as needed as a man. Don't give up any standing for her requests. Your other questions I leave to others.

Me? I am looking for my princess too I have done some serious traveling already.
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#15

Building a foundation with a foreign woman

offthereservation:
I haven't noticed a lot of your posts in the past, but I can tell that you have some serious first-hand knowledge and experience. You sound like you've been at this as long as I have, if not longer. I hope to read more from you in the future.
Reply
#16

Building a foundation with a foreign woman

Quote: (09-28-2015 05:01 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  

offthereservation:
I haven't noticed a lot of your posts in the past, but I can tell that you have some serious first-hand knowledge and experience. You sound like you've been at this as long as I have, if not longer. I hope to read more from you in the future.

thanks bro nice of you to say that
Reply
#17

Building a foundation with a foreign woman

Quote: (09-28-2015 03:54 PM)offthereservation Wrote:  

1. Your title about building a foundation.
Since you are a man of the Bible I refer to the Bible. You cannot build your house on sand. If there is no foundation then there is no foundation. I sense you are trying to convince yourself there is more there than exists in reality based on your going on about education etc. Education is a value in Mexico so don't use superficial measures to trick yourself that there is something there, if you actually want something more, as in more foundation to go forward. You are not too old so get over that crap.

2. Your own state.
Many many before me on this forum have said in game don't allow your hunger to ruin your game. Do not allow your hunger for a wife to ruin your thinking.

3. This family business business.
What this means to me is that you are being groomed for a new job. That job is venture capitalist. I can almost assure you as if I had a magic dictionary that an aspiring merchant girl from Mexico saying this to you (and you have not bothered to discuss who will fund this) means that by DEFAULT you are the funding source. So not only will you have the instant strain of a girlfriend or wife AND THE MONEY THAT GETS SENT TO MEXICO, you will also be a venture capitalist for whatever dream she has. Unless you are a dream-crushing motherfucker who say no that is no my fucking problem! I say this to you as a guy who built one of the most beautiful hair salons in America and has nothing to show for it except this advice to you!! [Image: fatbanana.gif][Image: fatbanana.gif]


It's her parents that are interested in starting a small restaurant/store. She's finishing up a BA in Photography and has long-term dreams of starting her own freelance photography biz. She hasn't asked me for money or to be a part of these things and respects my separate area of work.

Quote:Quote:

4. Long distance
Wow dude you have the danger of falling in love with the fantasy of what ever you think she is since you don't really know her.

She's already very interested in me (again, lack of experience). I do have many feelings for her and it's hard not to let my imagination soar, but I am staying upright about this and have had those talks with her. We're doing everything we can to visit each other as often as possible. She graduates in the fall, then could come to the USA to stay with friends who live in my city and then spend more time with me. I also will have more vacation time by then to spend more time in Mexico.

Quote:Quote:

5. Class
The most under appreciated aspect of international relationships.
Yep I said it.

I want you to know that there is an element I have observed over and over again in Latina - American guy relationships. It is so subtle and so profound it may be the #1 reason for outright failure of these relationships (they don't all fail) or a nagging and growing sense of dissatisfaction on the guy part.

This is going to sound harsh but it goes something like this. MANY of these girls basically have no self esteem. Then along comes the white knight American who treats them with respect, listens to them whine and bitch, and generally tells them "it will be ok." (Does this already describe you?) This gets a reward at first. Then somewhere along the line the guy wonders what has happened. In actuality self esteem comes from rational values and rational living, as opposed to paranoia, superstition, and manipulative families and societies. So you shower this girl with esteem and it backfires one day because she has an internal message playing that says "if he respects me and i don't even respect myself what does that make me, i guess he is a bigger piece of shit than me." Now begin the bad treatment. Meanwhile you nag and whine trying to change her back and just cant figure out what happened. WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO YOUR LITTLE LOVELY LATINA PRINCESS?? Could be after you have kids or before but ask around, this has happened to a lot of guys. Maybe you found the unicorn dude how the fuck should i know?

This may be the core issue that I'm concerned about. I do sense that low self-esteem may be driving this. She's not whiney/bitchy about it, just a little negative, almost as if she's shit-testing/doubting my genuine interest in her. She asked me once "I still don't understand why you like me?" She does have a sarcastic sense of humor, but it bothers me how she has these quips where she sounds as though she's below me. She appears to have a strong father figure, loving mother and a successful brother. Her family are pretty solid, and yes, middle-class by Mexico standards. She's a reasonably attractive, thin, petite girl, not telenovela star looks, but nice. Intelligent and creative, but pretty socially isolated, especially as far as romantic/dating options are concerned. I just want her to feel more like a true peer of mine, many times it is there, then she has these moments where I detect some sort of inferiority complex. I don't know.

Quote:Quote:

Also she is not middle class like you know it but you will make her middle class. Middle class there can be 10k a year. Ask the tough questions that our protestant upbringing told us not to. How much money does your dad make in order to live like that in Mexico?

I vetted her quite a bit early on to make sure she didn't have monetary/scheming motivations. After the first time I met her, she acted cold/distant and almost ended the interaction with me early on because of the aforementioned miscommunication where she thought I only wanted to be her friend and she said she "wasn't sure of me". She also stated repeatedly that she didn't want to continue the relationship if my family didn't approve of her. Weeks later, they met her and it went well, but she's still kind of skiddish about that.

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You also should consider the implications with the society that you live and work in. It is one thing to bring a girl around who blends in and can talk to your friends and friends wives, it is another to bring the one everyone thinks is the maid. Sorry to be harsh you asked bro.

That's what I need to get to the bottom of by bringing her up here more. There's only one way to find out. I've told her that she will need to come here more to get a feel for the area/people, I would want her to be happy here.

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6. Women are a commodity in most Latin cultures. Or at least their cultures still function as such. You need to ask hard questions. Why was she not taken at 21 and impregnated and made the good wife of a good family in her town? FIND OUT. They don't leave many good ones behind. Sorry to break it to you but 29 is totally passed over in that culture. Add 15 years for the cultural equivalent.

I've asked many questions getting a picture of that. It's a long story. She's basically been somewhat of a loner. Her family lived/worked on work visas in the US for some years, then she returned to Mexico to be with her family after the visas expired. She had one American guy friend who wanted to help her stay in the US/get residence, but she declined to be closer to her family at that time. They also lived in Guatemala briefly before the US when she was in high school. So, she's been very transient, constantly uprooting from friends/family, and found herself in her late 20s, back in a Bachelor's program surrounded by 18-23 year olds. She also had some health issues a few years ago that sidelined her social/school life for several months. She's a Protestant minority and doesn't want to date Catholic or agnostic guys 5-10 years younger than her.

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7. WCS
Worst case you need to ask yourself if you want a woman taking your kids to Mexico if the shit hits the fan. If you are not 100% certain who she is why don't you find out before you get hot and heavy. It does not sound like you are going to pump and dump or we would not be having this thread.

8. Best thing in your info, the family connections to the US. Scariest is this lack of experience and strange conflict you are having before this even gets going.

9. And finally you. You have other threads wanting to travel etc. So whats it going to be? Travel the world on some engineering job for a few years or bring the princess to chicago and make little ones.

The only "advice" I will give you if you go forward is never compromise your standing as a man for a (Latina) woman. She will lose all respect for you. You advance in your career etc as needed as a man. Don't give up any standing for her requests. Your other questions I leave to others.

I'm working hard to be decisive, positive, and establish a strong frame, and so far that's going well. My side of the issue is how to find more vacation time to get down there and spend more time with her, scoping her out, her family, her life down there. I've explained the difficulty of this and how she's going to need to be smart, patient, and dependable. She said she's sorry for complicating my life. She had an emotional/crying moment when I told her that I/we cannot talk yet as if we're sure we're going to marry, that we should take things slow and not over-think the future. She later apologized for the emotional moment and "putting pressure on me", told me that she loves me, but agrees that we need to be realistic. Anyways, the plan would be for her to come to Chicago in January on a Tourist Visa for a few months, see how it goes. Basically, I don't have any suspicions about her, she's very genuine as far as I can tell and her family seem pretty solid, albeit transient. There's more that I need to learn, but the more I do learn, the more it seems she's had an interesting life, often socially isolated, fragmented. Like I said, she's not your typical Mexican UMC fresa nor is she another dirt poor/uneducated cholo, single mom, etc looking to get the hell out of dodge asap. Her self-esteem issues and miscommunications may be stemming more from her romantic inexperience and her immersion in Protestant Christianity than from any Mexican cultural thing. I've seen similar weirdness in American evangelicals. These people are very idealistic, never date (ever heard of I kissed dating good-bye?), and find themselves socially way off the curve well into adulthood.

So, there it is. Maybe I have found a unicorn. A strange one. Her naiveté bothers me as does her negative quips, but she's shown promise by always coming back with some rational self-awareness. If she can prove to be reliable, and we can find a pathway to spend ample time together for me (and her) to get to know one another a lot more, I think it's likely a very good relationship could arise, and I would be very satisfied with that. I would want her to be comfortable living with me, in the USA, and I'm fine with my kids having mixed European/Mexican roots, as long as they have a solid American identity. I've thought perhaps Texas or some southwestern state may be a good place to move to eventually to help facilitate this (solid family, conservative values, cultural identity). I don't want her to just be my housemaid, but I also don't want her becoming severely tainted with the washed-out, feminist, and other bad traits of American women.
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#18

Building a foundation with a foreign woman

^^^
You're making some good points and raising many interesting questions, but I am way too tired to respond right now. I like the idea of her coming to the United States and staying with friends while you get to know her better. That would be a lot better than bringing here and having her stay with you, at least to start out. I would be really careful with that religion stuff. The D.C. area is infested with Hispanic and black girls who are religious fanatics and it really isn't what I am used to. Anything other than the Catholic, Jersey Shore Methodist, or Jewish faith is completely foreign to me and many guys complain about those religious fanatic types. As for the low self esteem/inferiority complex, yeah, that is a real problem in Latin America in general. That accounts for a lot of my rejections girls flaking on me, or girls disappearing after the bang. If they think you look and/or are a lot better than them they use rejections and/or flaking as a defense mechanism.
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#19

Building a foundation with a foreign woman

OP
Of course she is interested in you! Tell her you are not a US citizen that you were born on some strange white island and you work in the US on a work visa that cannot get a spouse and she will have to get her own visa and see what she says, or how hard she is willing to work to see you.

I venture a guess that you just do not have enough experience with these women to know whether or not you are being manipulated or played. It does not mean she does not have some sincere feelings for you, but you just do not know the extent to which these cultures train women to do things to survive (or get greencards.) Finding a gringo provider IS REAL LOVE. No offense. I was there!

You are giving it all up to her blabbing at the mouth instead of seeing if she asks about you, right? She has all the ammunition she needs to fully control the outcome.

In the meantime why don't you go out hitting on girls like she doesn't exist. Getting laid will help you have some perspective while this fantasy plays out. If you think you are "cheating" on her then the problem is yours. You have nothing there yet to cheat on.

Let me translate some of the rest of your story into what it may really means.

About your explanation of why she is 29 and single, I will translate this for you. She is banging some younger guy locally with whom she knows there is no future. Perhaps the baddest boy in school. Meanwhile you white knight beautifully and from a distance.

About this American guy story, she banged a guy in hopes that she would get a greencard and the guy got some bangs and split. You now have hard evidence you are not the first gringo she tried to trap in the spider web, but instead of seeing the light you believe each and every story of a WOMAN literally. Wow.

About the parents wanting to start a business, well its even worse. Dont you see these stories are designed to get you to yearn to HELP. Of course she wont ask for money that is for after marriage. It will be presented so sweetly you will volunteer. If you dont the hammer will come down on your life in a way you cannot imagine now.

You have a real virgin fantasy - pedestal thing going with this one I think. I wonder who is the master player in this drama? The girl who has shared with you all these stories or you who has consumed them each one by one and preserved her perceived virginity with a kiss on the cheek when you met her.

The more you go down there to see her the more she will think you are a Pendejo. Look up the word you will need to know it.

It is all in your head, the whole relationship. No bang yet = you are a zero to her. All this talk of a relationship and designing the future without a bang and without her being there = you communicate zero SMV to her.

She has put out nothing and you have rearranged the stars in your head. Its so perfect you dont want to deflower it by fucking her.

Be careful, it sounds worse the more you say. I am 100% sure you thought your replies would make someone think this is all just fine but in my case I went from 30% thinking you were being played to about 98%.

It is urgent that you get yourself to some Brazillian hangouts in Chicago and de-brainwash.

Can this work? I guess. But you are in for a real shock or much worse if you don't drop the fantasy and wishful thinking. You STILL want this to work? Stop calling her and tell her she has to get her own ticket and her own visa and come and service your needs by January or you will go out with Miss Chicago instead.
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#20

Building a foundation with a foreign woman

Quote: (09-28-2015 05:36 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  

^^^
You're making some good points and raising many interesting questions, but I am way too tired to respond right now. I like the idea of her coming to the United States and staying with friends while you get to know her better. That would be a lot better than bringing here and having her stay with you, at least to start out. I would be really careful with that religion stuff. The D.C. area is infested with Hispanic and black girls who are religious fanatics and it really isn't what I am used to. Anything other than the Catholic, Jersey Shore Methodist, or Jewish faith is completely foreign to me and many guys complain about those religious fanatic types. As for the low self esteem/inferiority complex, yeah, that is a real problem in Latin America in general. That accounts for a lot of my rejections girls flaking on me, or girls disappearing after the bang. If they think you look and/or are a lot better than them they use rejections and/or flaking as a defense mechanism.

Yeah, the staying-with-friends on her own Visa is a good way that doesn't pull too much investment from either of us. I just need to find more time that I can get down there to get a deeper look into her life.

I'm all too familiar with Protestant/evangelical circles as I was one for many years. I'm still religious, but with a good dose of red pill now. I understand the language these girls speak. There are a few real gems to be found in church circles, but the idealism definitely stunts these people and makes relationships difficult to initiate, and at times kind of awkward and difficult negotiate reality with them what with their good-vs-evil, black-n-white, all-or-nothing way of seeing things.
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#21

Building a foundation with a foreign woman

offthereservation, I understand you've had a lot of experience with dating foreign women, apparently some negative experiences, those were your choices to get involved with poor quality women. There are good women and bad women in every country. I've told you some tid bits of my interactions with this girl. Plenty of signs by her own admission that helped quell suspicions in me. Yes, she has some real life stuff going on, who doesn't anywhere in the world? Don't get all bitter hard ass sounding like some MRA and babble off on soaring speculation now without any facts. If she comes to the USA to date me further, she'll do it on her own Visa and stay with friends of her Dad's. I've told her January and been firm about it. Her flights to see me she has paid with her own cash. Meanwhile, I'm keeping calm and working to get a closer look into her life every time I talk to her, every time I've visited her or when she came to visit me. Though I have feelings for her and like much of what I see, I am prepared to move on without her if this is not to be, there is no wife-starvation here if things do end up going south, and of course I don't assume too much until I have better proof. We're a long ways from some honeymoon fantasy, I've made that clear to her, and she has agreed.
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#22

Building a foundation with a foreign woman

Quote: (09-28-2015 09:08 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  

If she comes to the USA to date me further, she'll do it on her own Visa and stay with friends of her Dad's.

Someone is running game on the virgin princess right now as we speak.





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#23

Building a foundation with a foreign woman

Some universal rules still apply:

She's a woman. ABL. Always Be Leading. LTR is about getting and keeping a strong frame. Be playful, give her test on a regular basis for compliance and don't forget to always do it with a playful smirk. Remember, even with a cross-cultural relationship, women still love a bit of paternal guidance.

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Boycott these companies that hate men: King's Wiki Boycott List

Try not to become a man of success but rather to become a man of value. -Albert Einstein
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#24

Building a foundation with a foreign woman

OP- You're already sold lock, stock, and barrel on this girl. I suggest you take offthereservation's advice. He hits the mark, especially with the fact that she's 29 and unmarried. Major red flag, especially for a Mexicana.
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#25

Building a foundation with a foreign woman

Quote: (09-29-2015 10:25 PM)Mujeriego Wrote:  

OP- You're already sold lock, stock, and barrel on this girl. I suggest you take offthereservation's advice. He hits the mark, especially with the fact that she's 29 and unmarried. Major red flag, especially for a Mexicana.

I had not seen OP previous posts where three months prior to now asking about how to build a foundation, he asks about getting a visa for her per her discussions here and asks if over 25 is passed over here.

OP take your right hand, now slap your right cheek, and wake up quick.

This has all been carefully designed by your little virgin.
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