[B TAHKE]

Здравствуйте товарищи!!

Recently I was listening to a conservative talk show host in United States, and he mentioned that Islam is truly spreading and intact gaining popularity throughout the world... Mind you, he was saying this as an argument agains liberal bias, SJWs (as we would put it) and an anti thesis of sorts on the so called 'war on women'.

Basically, it goes like this... Islam is gaining popularity because of it's patriarchal values and traditions, and 'Western Society' and liberalism against patriarchy and those ideals are fueling the religious shift to the more patriarchal values of Islam.

With that being said, I am not a supporter of Islam, not do I believe in the teachings, etc, however, it is an interesting dichotomy to ponder when speaking about patriarchal values and the 'manosphere'.

Has anyone else here noticed that trend, or have an opinion of such? I know Roosh in Toronto used "Traditional Muslim Family Values' as a piece of ammo against SJWs, however, I am speaking in regard to real life situations. What opinions/observations are out there?

[Turkish Republican]

It's more like the opposite from what I've experienced. Atheism is gaining popularity everyday, people don't believe that a book fell out of the sky anymore. I thought this enlightening was a good thing, but I was proven wrong obviously. This atheism craze triggered the SJW culture.. I don't refer to myself as an atheist anymore because the atheists I've encountered are usually people who are obsessed with feminism and other stupid shit like that. Heck eventhough I don't believe in religion I will raise my child as a devout muslim. Religion is a great tool for motivation. It keeps all the SJW losers out of your yard.

[CactusCat589]

The problem with atheists is that they don't hold that belief out of a scientific objectivity or Einsteinian nobility of spirit. They just use it as a politicized platform for liberalism and SJW tyranny and as a weapon to destroy everything about traditionalism and Western conservative culture, even those aspects that are completely unrelated to religion. Anyone who will declare himself to be an atheist will be feminist, pro-affirmative action, pro-illegal immigration, pro-gun-control, pro-abortion even though on paper they aren't connected. They're even pro-Islam. Atheists really mean they are opposed to the Judeo-Christian God. But in reality, if you've been to any college in the country, that's who atheists are.

[Parlay44]

(09-18-2015 05:24 PM)CactusCat589 Wrote:  

The problem with atheists is that they don't hold that belief out of a scientific objectivity or Einsteinian nobility of spirit. They just use it as a politicized platform for liberalism and SJW tyranny and as a weapon to destroy everything about traditionalism and Western conservative culture, even those aspects that are completely unrelated to religion. Anyone who will declare himself to be an atheist will be feminist, pro-affirmative action, pro-illegal immigration, pro-gun-control, pro-abortion even though on paper they aren't connected. They're even pro-Islam. Atheists really mean they are opposed to the Judeo-Christian God. But in reality, if you've been to any college in the country, that's who atheists are.

I'm an atheist and I'm not any of those things. But I do agree with you. There's an intersection between modern atheism and SJW's. If people were truly atheists they would see the world in it's natural form and see that gender roles developed over time because they are efficient. Just because everyone walks around with a smartphone these days doesn't mean that they're smart or that the world is any more modern than biblical or prehistoric times.

And by the way:

[aphelion]

Between atheism and Islam, I'll take atheism 101 times out of 10. I know that some of the baggage that comes with not having a spriitual background sucks, but better no spiritual background than a horrible violent shithole one.

[EL CHAPO]

(09-18-2015 05:24 PM)CactusCat589 Wrote:  

The problem with atheists is that they don't hold that belief out of a scientific objectivity or Einsteinian nobility of spirit. They just use it as a politicized platform for liberalism and SJW tyranny and as a weapon to destroy everything about traditionalism and Western conservative culture, even those aspects that are completely unrelated to religion. Anyone who will declare himself to be an atheist will be feminist, pro-affirmative action, pro-illegal immigration, pro-gun-control, pro-abortion even though on paper they aren't connected. They're even pro-Islam. Atheists really mean they are opposed to the Judeo-Christian God. But in reality, if you've been to any college in the country, that's who atheists are.

Wait! Is the Judeo-Christian God anti-feminist and anti-immigration?

I don't know about that one. I've known atheists who were very much against feminism and illegal immigration.

[Möbius band]

(09-18-2015 06:14 PM)aphelion Wrote:  

Between atheism and Islam, I'll take atheism 101 times out of 10. I know that some of the baggage that comes with not having a spriitual background sucks, but better no spiritual background than a horrible violent shithole one.

Islam is actually pretty much on par with Christianity and Judaism in terms of violence (After all, Islam was based off of Judaism and Christianity, Muhammad just copied their main teachings and added stuff from the Pagan tribes of Mecca).

What the Islamic world hasn't gone through yet is the whole period where they stop taking shit so seriously, and not adhere to the literal word of Islam.

[kbell]

Hassid Jews and Orthodox Christians take their religions seriously, yet don't go around decapitating people. Or attack cartoonist with guns who lampoon them. Maybe in the distant past it was different.

[Möbius band]

(09-18-2015 06:47 PM)kbell Wrote:  

Hassid Jews and Orthodox Christians take their religions seriously, yet don't go around decapitating people. Or attack cartoonist with guns who lampoon them. Maybe in the distant past it was different.

There's many Muslims who take their religion seriously that don't go around decapitating people's head (The vast majority, actually).

Listen I'm not trying to defend Muslims here, I'm an ex-muslim who thoroughly read and tried to understand Islam texts, before denouncing my faith, but there's a huge misconception you make here assuming most muslims are going around cutting off people's heads.

Also, like I said, if you were to also follow the literal interpretations of Judaism and Christianity texts you'd also have groups going around decapitating and stoning people.

[kbell]

I wouldn't say most but a troubling amount. There is also no large radicalized groups that have huge amounts of money and power like ISIS in the other religions. Granted maybe in the future their might, but I doubt it.

[TheWastelander]

Atheism leaves a void in the soul that's filled by other dangerous -isms and secular religions.

[Roosh]

The men's rights guys said to allow homosexual marriage so the plight of straight men can be seen, but it is obvious that will not take place, because homosexual marriage was ushered in as a tool to destroy straight marriage.

Islam in Europe is meant as a tool to destroy Christian Europe. Islam will be practiced in patriarchal form under their own Sharia law while natives will be marginalized, live in fear, and suffer relative population decline while their own countries decline as well.

http://www.rooshv.com/cultural-collapse-theory

Liberal Christian Europeans and Islamists don't mix to create a "just right" porridge. Instead one will win and the other will lose, and it appears that population/demographics will be the cause. To dump 1 million Muslims into a Christian country tells you which team the big money is placing its bets on.

[Möbius band]

(09-18-2015 07:21 PM)kbell Wrote:  

I wouldn't say most but a troubling amount.

With this, I agree. Actually I wager that a large minority, or possibly even majority, support such actions but don't say it out loud.

What I find weird, is the amount of second generation muslims in the West who turn to radicalisation. Many first generation muslims probably came out of such shit holes and know what it can do, but seems like their sons and daughters don't think the same.

Also let's not forget that the VAST majority of people who have been killed by ISIS have been Muslims.

Quote:

There is also no large radicalized groups that have huge amounts of money and power like ISIS in the other religions. Granted maybe in the future their might, but I doubt it.

Of course, that is true but then again ISIS's victims have almost all been muslims themselves.

[Möbius band]

http://www.newser.com/story/213009/man-a...ified.html

Now things like this, are simply disgusting to see in today's age.

I do hope the quicker we find a replacement for oil the better, the whole Islamic world can then go back to the dark ages and become irrelevant.

[TonySandos]

(09-18-2015 06:53 PM)Möbius band Wrote:  

Also, like I said, if you were to also follow the literal interpretations of Judaism and Christianity texts you'd also have groups going around decapitating and stoning people.

I'm not going to vouch for Judaism since I know little of it, but please cite relevant text from the new testament in regard to your argument.

[Möbius band]

(09-18-2015 07:49 PM)TonySandos Wrote:  

(09-18-2015 06:53 PM)Möbius band Wrote:  

Also, like I said, if you were to also follow the literal interpretations of Judaism and Christianity texts you'd also have groups going around decapitating and stoning people.

I'm not going to vouch for Judaism since I know little of it, but please cite relevant text from the new testament in regard to your argument.

I know of many instances in the Old Testament; I'm not aware of any in the New Testament.

Still, the Old Testament is a part of the Bible.

[The Father]

(09-18-2015 05:09 PM)Turkish Republican Wrote:  

It's more like the opposite from what I've experienced. Atheism is gaining popularity everyday, people don't believe that a book fell out of the sky anymore. I thought this enlightening was a good thing, but I was proven wrong obviously. This atheism craze triggered the SJW culture.. I don't refer to myself as an atheist anymore because the atheists I've encountered are usually people who are obsessed with feminism and other stupid shit like that. Heck eventhough I don't believe in religion I will raise my child as a devout muslim. Religion is a great tool for motivation. It keeps all the SJW losers out of your yard.

Oh, great...so THAT'S our choice??

[quino_16]

(09-18-2015 06:53 PM)Möbius band Wrote:  

There's many Muslims who take their religion seriously that don't go around decapitating people's head (The vast majority, actually).

That's true. However, there are a lot of those religious Muslims that agree with the punishments found in the Quran.

[TonySandos]

(09-18-2015 07:57 PM)Möbius band Wrote:  

(09-18-2015 07:49 PM)TonySandos Wrote:  

(09-18-2015 06:53 PM)Möbius band Wrote:  

Also, like I said, if you were to also follow the literal interpretations of Judaism and Christianity texts you'd also have groups going around decapitating and stoning people.

I'm not going to vouch for Judaism since I know little of it, but please cite relevant text from the new testament in regard to your argument.

I know of many instances in the Old Testament; I'm not aware of any in the New Testament.

Still, the Old Testament is a part of the Bible.

No, that's invalid. The New testament teachings make much of the old testament obsolete, the same for Judaism in Christianity's eyes

[B TAHKE]

Islam in Europe is meant as a tool to destroy Christian Europe. Islam will be practiced in patriarchal form under their own Sharia law while natives will be marginalized, live in fear, and suffer relative population decline while their own countries decline as well.

http://www.rooshv.com/cultural-collapse-theory



So, here's the Question Roosh, which will it be? Narrative Collapse, or Cultural Collapse? I am betting on Cultural collapse... because the population of muslims will over run those who want to collapse the Narrative.. and the folks who believe in the Narrative, coupled with those who believe in Islam will outweigh those who don't

Your scenario in the link above is what I think will be the reality... as in some places it already is...

[Roosh]

(09-18-2015 08:14 PM)B TAHKE Wrote:  

Islam in Europe is meant as a tool to destroy Christian Europe. Islam will be practiced in patriarchal form under their own Sharia law while natives will be marginalized, live in fear, and suffer relative population decline while their own countries decline as well.

http://www.rooshv.com/cultural-collapse-theory



So, here's the Question Roosh, which will it be? Narrative Collapse, or Cultural Collapse? I am betting on Cultural collapse... because the population of muslims will over run those who want to collapse the Narrative.. and the folks who believe in the Narrative, coupled with those who believe in Islam will outweigh those who don't

Your scenario in the link above is what I think will be the reality... as in some places it already is...

Narrative collapse is a process that refers mostly to elite losing its hold on spreading propaganda to the masses. This may or may not be involved in an overall cultural collapse.

But if the narrative collapses, that means there are grassroots efforts to stop the cultural collapse. So it would be a good sign.

[Eskhander]

I actually see Islam losing popularity due to too much familiarity.

[El Chinito loco]

(09-18-2015 06:53 PM)Möbius band Wrote:  

(09-18-2015 06:47 PM)kbell Wrote:  

Hassid Jews and Orthodox Christians take their religions seriously, yet don't go around decapitating people. Or attack cartoonist with guns who lampoon them. Maybe in the distant past it was different.

There's many Muslims who take their religion seriously that don't go around decapitating people's head (The vast majority, actually).

Listen I'm not trying to defend Muslims here, I'm an ex-muslim who thoroughly read and tried to understand Islam texts, before denouncing my faith, but there's a huge misconception you make here assuming most muslims are going around cutting off people's heads.

Also, like I said, if you were to also follow the literal interpretations of Judaism and Christianity texts you'd also have groups going around decapitating and stoning people.

There is this line of rationalization concerning modern islam which is trotted out from time to time that it's just "a few bad apples" doing these things and it's deeply flawed. It's a big blind spot in not correctly and honestly analyzing why these fanatic elements are cultivated and allowed to spread in nearly all muslim communities worldwide.

The fact is they are really not the same as other judeo-christian beliefs. Islam is and always has been an extremist historical branch of Christianity that went off the rails. Even in fairly ancient history you had various jihadists running around forcefully converting Hindus, Buddhists, and Christians. Blowing up and erasing "rival" religious/historical icons was an established practice with islam that even the Catholic church didn't stoop to in most cases.

The idea that it's only a few bad apples is wrong because even moderate muslims are pretty sympathetic if not complicit when it comes to the extremists amongst them. The liberal muslims have no real authority whatsoever and even in SEA where muslims are slightly more liberal you'll find the majority are willing to tolerate dangerous fanatical behavior in their midst. An example would be Indonesia, Malaysia, and even the Philippines the strains of extremism deeply imbedded in what are fairly "liberal" muslim societies.

[AnonymousBosch]

(09-18-2015 07:28 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Liberal Christian Europeans and Islamists don't mix to create a "just right" porridge. Instead one will win and the other will lose, and it appears that population/demographics will be the cause. To dump 1 million Muslims into a Christian country tells you which team the big money is placing its bets on.

If the cycle of profit is to continue:

- Muslim Women need to be trained to become voracious consumers

- Muslim Women need to be encouraged to leave the home for the work place

I don't see Islam being destabilised anywhere near as easily as Christianity. It's a dangerous bet to take, particularly as Big Money relies on the both military and personal protection of strong men.

[B TAHKE]

(09-18-2015 07:30 PM)Möbius band Wrote:  

(09-18-2015 07:21 PM)kbell Wrote:  

I wouldn't say most but a troubling amount.

With this, I agree. Actually I wager that a large minority, or possibly even majority, support such actions but don't say it out loud.

What I find weird, is the amount of second generation muslims in the West who turn to radicalisation. Many first generation muslims probably came out of such shit holes and know what it can do, but seems like their sons and daughters don't think the same.

Also let's not forget that the VAST majority of people who have been killed by ISIS have been Muslims.

Quote:

There is also no large radicalized groups that have huge amounts of money and power like ISIS in the other religions. Granted maybe in the future their might, but I doubt it.

Of course, that is true but then again ISIS's victims have almost all been muslims themselves.

"What I find weird, is the amount of second generation muslims in the West who turn to radicalisation. Many first generation muslims probably came out of such shit holes and know what it can do, but seems like their sons and daughters don't think the same."

Therein lies my point.. The second generation is 'turned onto' Radicalization, because it holds onto "traditional values" Albeit skewed by our views.. however, those values are 'less skewed' than the liberal western values of faggorty, SJW, etc.. and when one of the second generation looks into his own religion, he finds what should be done to these people and there perpetrators who allow it to happen I.E. "The Infidels".