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Mini ice age, Winter is coming
#26

Mini ice age, Winter is coming

Quote: (07-14-2015 09:38 AM)Aenigmarius Wrote:  

Yes, I understand the chart above indicates warming sea temperatures since the 1800s. But, even if those numbers are accurate and verifiable, how does that implicate man as the cause? Even if you correlate the purported warming with the industrial revolution, correlation does not equal causation. And even if every single scientist on the planet agreed that man-made global warming was occurring, science isn't a democracy -- their unanimous opinion doesn't make it an actual, verifiable fact.

Man-made global warming is a myth, but it is a myth deeply ingrained in our subconscious by decades of reinforcement. That's why so many people look at the so-called evidence and believe it, because it reinforces their pre-existing internal bias.

I looked into the issue in depth. You might want to listen to talks by Lord Christopher Monckton.

Also I am old enough to have been told something else in history - that was before the global warming craze started in the late 1980s.

I - like many other people in school - have been taught that there was a medieval and a Roman times warming periods. During the times of Caesar the Romans not only managed to beat the precursor to the Germans clad in very superficial attire, but they also cultivated wine in England.

In addition there was the medieval warming period which created a climate warm enough for Greenland to be settled - it took it's name from that period as in those times it was as green as Scotland.

Now the global government wants us all to forget all the detail and believe the propaganda - even changing the names from global cooling (1970s), to global warming (late 1980s), to climate change (2009) to now climate disruption.

[Image: Comparison-charts.jpg]

This is the real data and fits much much better with the historical accounts we have of agriculture, Greenland, ice core data etc.

[Image: 6a010536b58035970c0133f49cf6dc970b-pi]

Not only is a warm period always more beneficial to life, but also CO2 levels are way too low by historical standards.

I know that plenty of very wealthy people don't believe in the global warming crap. Sure - I talked mostly to people in the 10-100 mio. $ net worth bracket, but it was startling how many completely disbelieved the crap spouted by the media.

Depending on some forms of data you have even graphs that look like this:

[Image: Articolo.jpg]

Now - if anyone just prefers to see and observe one side of the arguments without even listening what the other side has to say, then so be it. It's always easier to join the Hitler Youth and just scream Sieg Heil in unison. You certainly get your footprint brownie points by that.

The entire propaganda is only kept up for political and monetary gains.






Excellent talk by Rosa Koire on the topic of Agenda 21 (now a term no used anymore by the UN since there was so much opposition to it - they use sustainability, green something etc.). It is also interesting that sane lesbians always are 50 pounds lighter and more attractive than the crazy ones.

And here another talk by Lord Christopher Monckton who debates one of those drones. Moncton is a genius level inventor who has simply dedicated a good portion of his time and money to battle the global warming nonsense.









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#27

Mini ice age, Winter is coming

Quote:Quote:

Now the global government wants us all to forget all the detail and believe the propaganda - even changing the names from global cooling (1970s), to global warming (late 1980s), to climate change (2009) to now climate disruption.

Yeah, I had heard about the dire predictions of a looming global ice age from back in the 70s:

[Image: a4334152-136-time-magazine-ice-age-global-warming.gif]

Now that is an inconvenient truth.
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#28

Mini ice age, Winter is coming

I often see this 1970's ice age prediction meme being pasted on the forum, but it doesn't hold up to reviews of scientific literature of the time.

The reason that magazines like Time and Newsweek posted stories like this in the 1970's is the same reason that articles like the OP posted are still being published today: shock journalism and the like.

I suggest that forum readers ignore the media's treatment surrounding climate change (both pro and con anthropogenic causes), as it will always be dictated by sensationalism rather than presenting the forefront of climate science in a credible fashion.

Look instead towards the published articles of scientists during the 1970's and see what the forefront of science was saying at the time:

[Image: 1970s_papers.gif]
(From Peterson, 2008)

Shock journalism will always be shock journalism, guys, try not to get distracted by it .

RVF Fearless Coindogger Crew
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#29

Mini ice age, Winter is coming

Quote: (07-14-2015 10:17 AM)Aenigmarius Wrote:  

Quote:Quote:

Now the global government wants us all to forget all the detail and believe the propaganda - even changing the names from global cooling (1970s), to global warming (late 1980s), to climate change (2009) to now climate disruption.

Yeah, I had heard about the dire predictions of a looming global ice age from back in the 70s:

image snip

Now that is an inconvenient truth.

The 70's were a different time. Primitive computing resources, no comprehensive global observations of multiple species forcing climate. Apples and oranges, like comparing technology of an abacus to the computer I'm typing this on. Of course some things never change, like human nature, and I'm happy to learn from the past in those areas.

But on climate change they were wrong. We may be wrong now, and time will tell. What is a better solution than studying the problem until it's understood and taking rational action (whatever that means to all the stakeholders)? Couldn't care less what some nutjobs thought almost 40 years ago.
Reply
#30

Mini ice age, Winter is coming

There are a lot of points that I need to address, so I will try to take them one at a time (depending on how much time I have to invest).

First, let's address your mentioning of the medieval and Roman warming periods.

In understanding these so-called warming periods, it is important to consider the nature of climate changes. The fact is that climate change is never uniform across the globe: thus most future temperature forecasts based on different GHG emissions scenarios will even show cooling in some areas.

For the medieval warming period at least, through temperature reconstructions done by using a global network of temperature proxies, it can be demonstrated that global average temperatures are lower than those in recent times, thus the term 'warming period' is a misnomer.

[Image: Temperature_Pattern_MWP.gif]
from Mann et al, 2009
(temperature anomaly is in comparison to 1960-1990 levels, I believe)

As for the Roman warming period, all papers that I have seen referring to it as a warmer period in time are those done on a local, and not global scale. It is important to look at any trends in the larger context: context is always key!

RVF Fearless Coindogger Crew
Reply
#31

Mini ice age, Winter is coming

Indeed - in the past temperature patterns were unevenly distributed and Greenland was seemingly the hotspot together with parts of England.

But now things are completely different - global temperature is global - the papers tell us, those that we buy at least. Oh - and never mind about the sun - this little fusion globe that is bigger than all planets and meteors in our solar system combined. We have taken care of that and assumed that the sun simply does not matter at all - you will be glad to know that it is not included in the computer models of climate. It is assumed as an absolute constant like gravity - sun spot activity and solar flares do not matter at all.

I see only shills or malinformed people here. Sometimes the spread of propaganda seems to me like the administration of "knowledge" on wikipedia or the paid movie reviews on IMDB.

Climate Change/Global Warming is a system of belief. And our current "science" is the best that money can buy - it is also a system of belief and faith, but not reality. Believe what you want - there is such an enormous glut of info out there to prove you otherwise, that I am not going to comment here again. It is like talking to a wall anyway. Pay your CO2 taxes and be happy.
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#32

Mini ice age, Winter is coming

Quote: (07-13-2015 11:54 AM)Aenigmarius Wrote:  

Hubris. Pure hubris.

We're on the cusp of a new Dark Age, not a new Ice Age. Human beings, both on average individually and as an aggregate whole, know less than we did in previous generations.

Individually, we are more connected and have access to more information than ever before, but our worlds are increasingly smaller and the knowledge we actually understand, retain and employ is shrinking by the day.

As a whole, we have more information, more data, more test results, more research, more tools for investigation and analysis, but we are moving farther and farther from true knowledge.

The collective human understanding is filling up with more myths and outright untruths rather than facts and understanding. Even words are losing their meaning and language is failing us as memes supersede true knowledge and understanding.

What is actually, provably true can be deemed unacceptable, and therefore, untrue. We place more value on the messenger or the intent of the message rather than the truth of the message. Even our scientific is suspect, as the pursuit of pure scientific discovery gives way to the need to confirm or disprove one agenda over another, and as how the sound-bite summary of the results sounds on the evening news matters more than what the underlying analysis actually means.

We are no longer advancing, we're retreating into our own personal cocoons to enjoy the movie of our lives, starring us and a cast of nameless thousands, surrounded by the information, myths and untruths we deem acceptable to the plot we're trying to act out.

[Image: potd.gif]
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#33

Mini ice age, Winter is coming

Zelcorpion, quick response now because I'm pressed for time, promise longer response later.

Hitler youth? Come on, that's distracting.

Apologies but I'll never have time to watch a 1 hour press club debate. I note your advocate is a "genius level inventor" and has Lord as his title, so probably not an idiot. Good. My advocate is only an adjunct professor and politico. Bad on both counts. Who is the climate change skeptic with the most credibility and least bias or conflict of interest? Surely you agree credibility and motivation of the person matter when the facts or trends are kind of open to interpretation. I've heard Freeman Dyson is a skeptic, and obviously a genius of the highest caliber. Can you summarize his views? I remember reading them years ago and will relook.

Finally if it's not too much trouble, please include the source of the temperature graphs you post. Nevermind, saw you did that on 2/3, thanks.

I'm happy to debate the issue, and let's keep it of high quality!
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#34

Mini ice age, Winter is coming

Engineer: as a former science professional this stuff fascinates me too. We don't know where it will end. What irritates me are the people with NO scientific background who suddenly become the biggest advocates of the scientific method once they see something with validates their belief system.
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#35

Mini ice age, Winter is coming

Quote: (07-14-2015 11:29 AM)Engineer Wrote:  

The 70's were a different time. Primitive computing resources, no comprehensive global observations of multiple species forcing climate. Apples and oranges, like comparing technology of an abacus to the computer I'm typing this on. Of course some things never change, like human nature, and I'm happy to learn from the past in those areas.

But on climate change they were wrong. We may be wrong now, and time will tell. What is a better solution than studying the problem until it's understood and taking rational action (whatever that means to all the stakeholders)? Couldn't care less what some nutjobs thought almost 40 years ago.

I posted that Time cover to echo what Zelcorpion said about political propaganda on climate change, not in an attempt to "prove" anything about what science was predicting in the 70s. I whole-heartedly agree that the media coverage of the climate change issue is ridiculously irresponsible (if not fraudulent) in most cases... but that "climate problem" narrative has been drilled into the popular unconscious for so many decades now that it seems almost like intuitive knowledge. Even the summaries and conclusions of climate change research papers (on both sides of the issue) these days are written with the same "gloss over the facts and focus on what draws attention from the desired audience" type of narrative.

You didn't address any of my arguments about the lack of reliable, independently verifiable evidence of man-made global warming, or the leap of faith required to extrapolate the existing data into a legitimate "trend" in climate change, or any of the other issues I raised.

Instead, you ask what is a "better solution than studying the problem until it's understood and taking rational action." But that presupposes that there is, in fact, a problem. That isn't looking objectively at the research and assessing what it means, that is reviewing the conclusions to see which ones support the belief that there is a problem in order to find a way to solve it.

It also presupposes the fact that it is a problem that we can actually do anything about, which suggests a bias towards man-caused climate change. It further presupposes the fact that we should do anything about it if it exists at all.

You are arguing that the elephant in the room is pink because somebody who is paid to find pink elephants published a report saying it is a elephant painted pink by Evil, Inc., and we should do something about it. I'm still haven't seen enough legitimate, reliable evidence to convince me that there is an elephant in the room at all, and I don't think you can decide what (if anything) to do about what color it is until you figure that part out first.
Reply
#36

Mini ice age, Winter is coming

Quote: (07-14-2015 12:31 PM)Engineer Wrote:  

Zelcorpion, quick response now because I'm pressed for time, promise longer response later.

Hitler youth? Come on, that's distracting.

Apologies but I'll never have time to watch a 1 hour press club debate. I note your advocate is a "genius level inventor" and has Lord as his title, so probably not an idiot. Good. My advocate is only an adjunct professor and politico. Bad on both counts. Who is the climate change skeptic with the most credibility and least bias or conflict of interest? Surely you agree credibility and motivation of the person matter when the facts or trends are kind of open to interpretation. I've heard Freeman Dyson is a skeptic, and obviously a genius of the highest caliber. Can you summarize his views? I remember reading them years ago and will relook.

Finally if it's not too much trouble, please include the source of the temperature graphs you post. Nevermind, saw you did that on 2/3, thanks.

I'm happy to debate the issue, and let's keep it of high quality!

Point taken. I use sometimes hard wording. I was one of the mainstream Hitler Youth myself for many many years. Started to read popular science magazines and was a chemistry olympics participant in my teens, so of course I got the Global Warming propaganda before they trumped it out for real in the 1990s.

I only started questioning anything from economics, medicine, general science just a few years ago. And it was amazing to me who I could have been so blind - it was more intellectual inertia, that made me not take a look whether alternative viewpoints make no sense.

Also to the other guy here - those ad hominem statement of: "I am scientist, you are not. I am an expert, you are not. You don't get to decide with your sound judgment on what is right." The elite absolutely adores those kind of statements, because then you are left to decide zero. The government can always trump out a politician, lawyer, sociologist, feminist, psychologist, climatologist to counter all your arguments. Even if you back it up by opinions of "dissenting" scientists, then they claim they are all cooks. Noble price winner? If he says those things then he must have gone crazy and is also a cook. One of those social programmers once said that in a few generations mothers won't trust their own judgments and will be asking experts on how to change diapers for their babies. That time has already come.

Good sites with massive links and scientific background - one operated by a metereologist - you find everything you need there:

http://wattsupwiththat.com/
http://junkscience.com/

I have no mental taboos and butt in on all topics that I can wrap my head around. I am an economist and also one of those "cooks", but basic economy is so simple that probably everyone can understand it given enough preparation. Most fields have their own lingo and as soon as you understand that, then suddenly even vast scientific areas like medicine are no mystery anymore. You understand that often doctors dabble into the body without a clear understanding of how it really operates. Some areas like surgery (especially trauma treatment) are fantastic while others like prevention of diseases and long-term healing of degenerative diseases are fraught with many errors (with the MDs taking very little blame here really).

The topic of Global Warming is one of the easiest in my opinion to see through - somehow I wonder if all have been in a total hypnotic state that made them forget things. They made prophesies of warming that did not manifest in the last 18 years, they were caught off guard with public emails dubbed Climategate (in which they admitted to lying to the public), they have been caught falsifying data on a global scale, they have been even caught making statements that deliberately makes it look 100 times worse just to elicit a reaction in the people.

http://green-agenda.com/

I will leave this with a few choice quotes by elite scientists and politicians at the top - you will find references on the site above. I posted all of the ones on the main page just to make a strong point here. The elite simply does not believe in what they tell the masses in front of the TV screens. If you choose to believe it and perpetuate the lies, then that is your biz.

Quote:Quote:

"The common enemy of humanity is man.
In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up
with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming,
water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these
dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through
changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome.
The real enemy then, is humanity itself."
- Club of Rome,
premier environmental think-tank,
consultants to the United Nations

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[b]"We need to get some broad based support,
to capture the public's imagination...
So we have to offer up scary scenarios,
make simplified, dramatic statements
and make little mention of any doubts...
Each of us has to decide what the right balance
is between being effective and being honest."
- Prof. Stephen Schneider,
Stanford Professor of Climatology,
lead author of many IPCC reports

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"We've got to ride this global warming issue.
Even if the theory of global warming is wrong,
we will be doing the right thing in terms of
economic and environmental policy."
- Timothy Wirth,
President of the UN Foundation


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"No matter if the science of global warming is all phony...
climate change provides the greatest opportunity to
bring about justice and equality in the world."
- Christine Stewart,
former Canadian Minister of the Environment


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“The data doesn't matter. We're not basing our recommendations
on the data. We're basing them on the climate models.”
- Prof. Chris Folland,
Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction and Research


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“The models are convenient fictions
that provide something very useful.”
- Dr David Frame,
climate modeler, Oxford University


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I believe it is appropriate to have an 'over-representation' of the facts
on how dangerous it is, as a predicate for opening up the audience."
- Al Gore,
Climate Change activist

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"It doesn't matter what is true,
it only matters what people believe is true."
- Paul Watson,
co-founder of Greenpeace


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The only way to get our society to truly change is to
frighten people with the possibility of a catastrophe."
- emeritus professor Daniel Botkin


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The climate crisis is not a political issue, it is a moral and
spiritual challenge to all of humanity. It is also our greatest
opportunity to lift Global Consciousness to a higher level."
- Al Gore,
Nobel Peace Prize acceptance speech

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"We are on the verge of a global transformation.
All we need is the right major crisis..."
- David Rockefeller,
Club of Rome executive member

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Humanity is sitting on a time bomb. If the vast majority of the
world's scientists are right, we have just ten years to avert a
major catastrophe that could send our entire planet's climate system
into a tail-spin of epic destruction involving extreme weather, floods,
droughts, epidemics and killer heat waves beyond anything we have
ever experienced - a catastrophe of our own making."
- Al Gore,
An Inconvenient Truth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"We are getting close to catastrophic tipping points,
despite the fact that most people barely notice the warming yet."
- Dr James Hansen,
NASA researcher

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"By the end of this century climate change will reduce the human
population to a few breeding pairs surviving near the Arctic."
- Sir James Lovelock,
Revenge of Gaia

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Climate Change will result in a catastrophic global sea level
rise of seven meters. That's bye-bye most of Bangladesh,
Netherlands, Florida and would make London the new Atlantis."
- Greenpeace International

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"This planet is on course for a catastrophe.
The existence of Life itself is at stake."
- Dr Tim Flannery,
Principal Research Scientist

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Coal makes us sick. Oil makes us sick. It's global warming.
It's ruining our country. It's ruining our world."
- Harry Reid,
U.S. Senate majority leader

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Climate Change is the greatest threat that
human civilization has ever faced."
- Angela Merkel,
German Chancellor

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Climate change is real. Not only is it real, it's here,
and its effects are giving rise to a frighteningly new
global phenomenon: the man-made natural disaster."
- Barack Obama,
US President

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"We simply must do everything we can in our power to
slow down global warming before it is too late."
- Arnold Schwarzenegger,
Governor of California

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Climate change should be seen as the
greatest challenge to ever face mankind."
- Prince Charles

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Climate change makes us all global citizens,
we are truly all in this together."
- Gordon Brown,
British Prime Minister

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"We have reached the critical moment of decision on climate change.
Failure to act to now would be deeply and unforgivably irresponsible.
We urgently require a global environmental revolution."
- Tony Blair,
former British PM

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"We are close to a time when all of humankind
will envision a global agenda that encompasses
a kind of Global Marshall Plan to address the
causes of poverty and suffering and
environmental destruction all over the earth."
- Al Gore,
Earth in the Balance

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"In Nature organic growth proceeds according
to a Master Plan, a Blueprint. Such a ‘master plan’ is
missing from the process of growth and development of
the world system. Now is the time to draw up a master plan for
sustainable growth and world development based on global
allocation of all resources and a new global economic system.
Ten or twenty years form today it will probably be too late."
- Club of Rome,
Mankind at the Turning Point

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"We need a new paradigm of development in
which the environment will be a priority.
World civilization as we know it will soon end.
We have very little time and we must act.
If we can address the environmental problem,
it will have to be done within a new system, a
new paradigm. We have to change our mindset,
the way humankind views the world."
- Mikhail Gorbachev,
founder of Green Cross International

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The concept of national sovereignty has been immutable,
indeed a sacred principle of international relations.
It is a principle which will yield only slowly and reluctantly to
the new imperatives of global environmental cooperation."
- UN Commission on Global Governance report


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Democracy is not a panacea. It cannot organize everything and
it is unaware of its own limits. These facts must be faced squarely.
Sacrilegious though this may sound, democracy is no longer well
suited for the tasks ahead. The complexity and the technical nature
of many of today’s problems do not always allow elected
representatives to make competent decisions at the right time."
- Club of Rome,
The First Global Revolution


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The emerging 'environmentalization' of our civilization
and the need for vigorous action in the interest of the entire global
community will inevitably have multiple political consequences.
Perhaps the most important of them will be a gradual change
in the status of the United Nations. Inevitably, it must
assume some aspects of a world government."
- Mikhail Gorbachev,
State of the World Forum

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I envisage the prinicles of the Earth Charter to
be a new form of the ten commandments.
They lay the foundation for a sustainable
global earth community."
- Mikhail Gorbachev,
co-author of The Earth Charter

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"In my view, after fifty years of service in the United Nations system,
I perceive the utmost urgency and absolute necessity for proper
Earth government. There is no shadow of a doubt that the present
political and economic systems are no longer appropriate
and will lead to the end of life evolution on this planet.
We must therefore absolutely and urgently look for new ways."
- Dr Robert Muller,
UN Assistant Secretary General,

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Nations are in effect ceding portions of their sovereignty
to the international community and beginning to create a
new system of international environmental governance
as a means of solving otherwise unmanageable crises."
- Lester Brown,
WorldWatch Institute

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Regionalism must precede globalism.
We foresee a seamless system of governance from
local communities, individual states, regional unions
and up through to the United Nations itself."
- UN Commission on Global Governance

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"A keen and anxious awareness is evolving to suggest that
fundamental changes will have to take place in the world order
and its power structures, in the distribution of wealth and income.
Perhaps only a new and enlightened humanism
can permit mankind to negotiate this transition."
- Club of Rome,
Mankind at the Turning Point

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The alternative to the existing world order can only
emerge as a result of a new human dimension of progress.
We envision a revolution of the mind, a new way of thinking."
- Mikhail Gorbachev,
State of the World Forum

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"We require a central organizing principle - one agreed to voluntarily.
Minor shifts in policy, moderate improvement in laws and regulations,
rhetoric offered in lieu of genuine change - these are all forms of
appeasement, designed to satisfy the public’s desire to believe that
sacrifice, struggle and a wrenching transformation
of society will not be necessary."
- Al Gore,
Earth in the Balance

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Adopting a central organizing principle...
means embarking on an all-out effort to use every
policy and program, every law and institution...
to halt the destruction of the environment."
- Al Gore,
Earth in the Balance

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Effective execution of Agenda 21 will require a profound
reorientation of all human society, unlike anything the world
has ever experienced a major shift in the priorities of both
governments and individuals and an unprecedented
redeployment of human and financial resources. This shift
will demand that a concern for the environmental consequences
of every human action be integrated into individual and
collective decision-making at every level."
- UN Agenda 21

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The current course of development is thus clearly unsustainable.
Current problems cannot be solved by piecemeal measures.
More of the same is not enough. Radical change from the
current trajectory is not an option, but an absolute necessity.
Fundamental economic, social and cultural changes that
address the root causes of poverty and environmental
degradation are required and they are required now."
– from the Earth Charter website

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The goal now is a socialist, redistributionist society,
which is nature's proper steward and society's only hope."
- David Brower,
founder of Friends of the Earth


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"If we don't overthrow capitalism, we don't have a chance of
saving the world ecologically. I think it is possible to have
an ecologically sound society under socialism.
I don't think it is possible under capitalism"
- Judi Bari,
principal organiser of Earth First!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Isn't the only hope for the planet that the
industrialized civilizations collapse?
Isn't it our responsiblity to bring that about?"
- Maurice Strong,
founder of the UN Environment Programme

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"A massive campaign must be launched to de-develop the
United States. De-development means bringing our
economic system into line with the realities of
ecology and the world resource situation."
- Paul Ehrlich,
Professor of Population Studies


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The only hope for the world is to make sure there is not another
United States. We can't let other countries have the same
number of cars, the amount of industrialization, we have in the US.
We have to stop these Third World countries right where they are."
- Michael Oppenheimer,
Environmental Defense Fund

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Global Sustainability requires the deliberate quest of poverty,
reduced resource consumption and set levels of mortality control."
- Professor Maurice King

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"We must make this an insecure and inhospitable place
for capitalists and their projects. We must reclaim the roads and
plowed land, halt dam construction, tear down existing dams,
free shackled rivers and return to wilderness
millions of acres of presently settled land."
- David Foreman,
co-founder of Earth First!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Complex technology of any sort is an assault on
human dignity. It would be little short of disastrous for us to
discover a source of clean, cheap, abundant energy,
because of what we might do with it."
- Amory Lovins, Rocky Mountain Institute

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The prospect of cheap fusion energy is the
worst thing that could happen to the planet."
- Jeremy Rifkin,
Greenhouse Crisis Foundation

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Giving society cheap, abundant energy would be the
equivalent of giving an idiot child a machine gun."
- Prof Paul Ehrlich, Stanford University

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Our insatiable drive to rummage deep beneath
the surface of the earth is a willful expansion
of our dysfunctional civilization into Nature."
- Al Gore,
Earth in the Balance

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The big threat to the planet is people: there are too many,
doing too well economically and burning too much oil."
– Sir James Lovelock,
BBC Interview

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"My three main goals would be to reduce human population to
about 100 million worldwide, destroy the industrial infrastructure
and see wilderness, with it’s full complement of species,
returning throughout the world."
-Dave Foreman,
co-founder of Earth First!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Current lifestyles and consumption patterns of the
affluent middle class - involving high meat intake,
use of fossil fuels, appliances, air-conditioning,
and suburban housing - are not sustainable."
- Maurice Strong,
Rio Earth Summit

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Mankind is the most dangerous, destructive,
selfish and unethical animal on the earth."
- Michael Fox,
vice-president of The Humane Society

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Human beings, as a species,
have no more value than slugs."
- John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Humans on the Earth behave in some ways like a
pathogenic micro-organism, or like the cells of a tumor."
- Sir James Lovelock,
Healing Gaia

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The Earth has cancer
and the cancer is Man."
- Club of Rome,
Mankind at the Turning Point

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"A cancer is an uncontrolled multiplication of cells;
the population explosion is an uncontrolled multiplication of people.
We must shift our efforts from the treatment of the symptoms to
the cutting out of the cancer. The operation will demand many
apparently brutal and heartless decisions.''
- Prof Paul Ehrlich,
The Population Bomb

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I don't claim to have any special interest in natural history,
but as a boy I was made aware of the annual fluctuations in
the number of game animals and the need to adjust
the cull to the size of the surplus population."
- Prince Philip,
preface of Down to Earth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"A reasonable estimate for an industrialized world society
at the present North American material standard of living
would be 1 billion. At the more frugal European standard
of living, 2 to 3 billion would be possible."
- United Nations,
Global Biodiversity Assessment

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"A total population of 250-300 million people,
a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal."
- Ted Turner,
founder of CNN and major UN donor

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"... the resultant ideal sustainable population is hence
more than 500 million but less than one billion."
- Club of Rome,
Goals for Mankind

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"One America burdens the earth much more than
twenty Bangladeshes. This is a terrible thing to say.
In order to stabilize world population,we must eliminate
350,000 people per day. It is a horrible thing to say,
but it's just as bad not to say it."
- Jacques Cousteau,
UNESCO Courier

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"If I were reincarnated I would wish to be returned to earth
as a killer virus to lower human population levels."
- Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh,
patron of the World Wildlife Fund

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I suspect that eradicating small pox was wrong.
It played an important part in balancing ecosystems."
- John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The extinction of the human species may not
only be inevitable but a good thing."
- Christopher Manes, Earth First!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“The extinction of Homo Sapiens would mean survival
for millions, if not billions, of Earth-dwelling species.
Phasing out the human race will solve every
problem on Earth - social and environmental.”
- Ingrid Newkirk,
former President of PETA

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Childbearing should be a punishable crime against
society, unless the parents hold a government license.
All potential parents should be required to use
contraceptive chemicals, the government issuing
antidotes to citizens chosen for childbearing."
- David Brower,
first Executive Director of the Sierra Club

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The fate of mankind, as well as of religion, depends upon
the emergence of a new faith in the future.
Armed with such a faith, we might find
it possible to resanctify the earth."
- Al Gore,
Earth in the Balance

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The greatest hope for the Earth lies in religionists and
scientists uniting to awaken the world to its near fatal predicament
and then leading mankind out of the bewildering maze of
international crises into the future Utopia of humanist hope."
- Club of Rome,
Goals for Mankind

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"What an incredible planet in the universe this will be
when we will be one human family living in justice,
peace, love and harmony with our divine Earth,
with each other and with the heavens."
- Robert Muller,
UN Assistant Secretary General

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The earth is literally our mother, not only because we depend on
her for nurture and shelter but even more because the human
species has been shaped by her in the womb of evolution....
Our salvation depends upon our ability
to create a religion of nature."
- Rene Dubos,
board member, Planetary Citizens

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Each element, plant, insect, fish and animal
represents a certain aspect of Gaia's - and our - being.
In a way, we are Gaia's intelligence and awareness
- currently lost in self-destructive madness.
We must acknowledge, respect and love her for being
the Mother she is to us or we deny our very selves.
Nurture the Mother as she nurtures us."
- Prof. Michael J. Cohen,
Ecopsychologist

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"It is the responsibility of each human being today to
choose between the force of darkness and the force of light.
We must therefore transform our attitudes, and adopt a renewed
respect for the superior laws of Divine Nature."
- Maurice Strong,
first Secretary General of UNEP

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The spirit of our planet is stirring!
The Consciousness of Goddess Earth
is now rising against all odds,
in spite of millennia of suppression,
repression and oppression inflicted on Her
by a hubristic and misguided humanity.

The Earth is a living entity, a biological organism
with psychic and spiritual dimensions.
With the expansion of the patriarchal religions
that focused on a male God majestically
stationed in Heaven ruling over the Earth and the
Universe, the memory of our planet's innate Divinity
was repressed and banished into the
collective unconscious of humanity."
- Envision Earth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Still more important is the implication that the evolution of
homo sapiens, with his technological inventiveness and his
increasingly subtle communications network, has vastly increased
Gaia's range of perception. She is now through us awake and aware
of herself. She has seen the reflection of her fair face through the
eyes of astronauts and the television cameras of orbiting spacecraft.

Our sensations of wonder and pleasure, our capacity
for conscious thought and speculation, our restless curiosity and
drive are hers to share. This new interrelationship of Gaia with man
is by no means fully established; we are not yet a truly collective
species, corralled and tamed as an integral part of the biosphere,
as we are as individual creatures. It may be that the destiny of
mankind is to become tamed, so that the fierce, destructive, and
greedy forces of tribalism and nationalism are fused into a
compulsive urge to belong to the commonwealth of all
creatures which constitutes Gaia."
– Sir James Lovelock,
Gaia: A New Look At Life

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Little by little a planetary prayer book is
thus being composed by an increasingly united
humanity seeking its oneness. Once again,
but this time on a universal scale, humankind is
seeking no less than its reunion with 'divine,'
its transcendence into higher forms of life. Hindus
call our earth Brahma, or God, for they rightly
see no difference between our earth and the divine.
This ancient simple truth is slowly dawning again upon
humanity, as we are about to enter our cosmic age
and become what we were always meant to be:
the planet of god."
- Robert Muller,
UN Assistant Secretary General

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"What if Mary is another name for Gaia? Then her capacity for
virgin birth is no miracle . . . it is a role of Gaia since life began . . .
She is of this Universe and, conceivably, a part of God. On Earth,
she is the source of life everlasting and is alive now;
she gave birth to humankind and we are part of her."
- Sir James Lovelock,
Ages of Gaia

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Nature is my god. To me, nature is sacred;
trees are my temples and forests are my cathedrals."
- Mikhail Gorbachev,
Green Cross International

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The spiritual sense of our place in nature...
can be traced to the origins of human civilization....
The last vestige of organized goddess worship
was eliminated by Christianity."
- Al Gore,
Earth in the Balance

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Christianity is our foe. If animal rights is to succeed,
we must destroy the Judeo-Christian Religious tradition."
- Peter Singer, founder of Animal Rights

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I pledge allegiance to the Earth and all its sacred parts.
Its water, land and living things and all its human hearts."
- Global Education Associates,
The Earth Pledge

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"By fostering a deep sense of connection to others and to the earth
in all its dimensions, holistic education encourages a sense of
responsibility to self to others and to the planet."
- Global Alliance for Transforming Education

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The earth is not dead matter. She is alive.
Now begin to speak to the earth as you walk.
You can speak out loud, or just talk to her in your mind.
Send your love into her with your exhalation. Feel your
heart touching upon the heart of the planet. Say to her
whatever words come to you: Mother Earth, I love you.
Mother Earth, I bless you. May you be healed. May all
your creatures be happy. Peace to you, Mother Earth.
On behalf of the human race, I ask forgiveness
for having injured you. Forgive us, Mother Earth"
- US Student Textbook,
"Prayer to the Earth"
[/b]
Reply
#37

Mini ice age, Winter is coming

I missed the mention of Chris Monckton actually. Guy's an intellectual fraud, who people have already spent way too much time debunking. If he's one of the best that the anti-anthro climate change people have to offer, then I don't really have much left to say on the topic.


























http://static.stthomas.edu/jpabraham/?ut...esentation

I also see that he's contributed to the site you posted. I can't say I'm familiar with it, but given the content above, surely not a very good indication for this site.

RVF Fearless Coindogger Crew
Reply
#38

Mini ice age, Winter is coming

Quote: (07-14-2015 01:44 PM)Aenigmarius Wrote:  

I posted that Time cover to echo what Zelcorpion said about political propaganda on climate change, not in an attempt to "prove" anything about what science was predicting in the 70s. (snip)

(Engineer's responses are underlined because nesting quotes properly is a hassle: OK, fair enough. I tend to ignore the political propaganda parts and try to focus on the science. The political issue is much less interesting for reasons I'll get to below)

You didn't address any of my arguments about the lack of reliable, independently verifiable evidence of man-made global warming, or the leap of faith required to extrapolate the existing data into a legitimate "trend" in climate change, or any of the other issues I raised.

(My response: The core of the scientific debate centers around a climate change model and the input data into the model. To paraphrase one of Zel's quotes I agree with 100%: all models are wrong, some are useful. So we have lots of measurements of actual current and past markers with various uncertainties, some good and some bad. The trick is to ask the model to tease out what is man-made and what is natural solar/volcanos/whatever. There is no double-blind alternate earth experiment around to test any hypotheses unfortunately. So we are left with: Build the best models you can. Improve them with better data. Run them on historical data sets to see if early runs duplicate what we've already seen. Improve the models until they are useful. The evidence is there of warming in the long term that begun in the post-industrial age when we started burning fossil fuels. Coincidence or not? Let's find out.)

Instead, you ask what is a "better solution than studying the problem until it's understood and taking rational action." But that presupposes that there is, in fact, a problem.

(My response: No, I presuppose nothing. I consider all rational arguments, including those of my rational critics. "The problem has zero magnitude" would be a great outcome of studying the problem.)

It also presupposes the fact that it is a problem that we can actually do anything about, which suggests a bias towards man-caused climate change. It further presupposes the fact that we should do anything about it if it exists at all.

(My response: You would not believe what we're capable of. For $20B you can build a 1000 km diameter fresnel lens in the Earth-Sun L1 orbit to reduce the solar flux hitting the earth 1%. Whether we should do that is another question. But what we can do is amazing.)

You are arguing that the elephant in the room is pink because somebody who is paid to find pink elephants published a report saying it is a elephant painted pink by Evil, Inc., and we should do something about it. I'm still haven't seen enough legitimate, reliable evidence to convince me that there is an elephant in the room at all, and I don't think you can decide what (if anything) to do about what color it is until you figure that part out first.

(My response: Elephant in the room or not is oversimplifying. Here's a better analogy. You and I live in the same jungle village and every 10 days or so someone goes missing, never to return. We have no idea why. One day someone comes running back saying "an elephant tried to eat me and I barely escaped". I don't believe him, because I've never seen elephants around here and this guy is unreliable anyway. You think it might be possible, because you remember a crazy old legend that the elephant gods ate someone every 25 days. So you tell me maybe the elephant problem is real and increasing and if there's a herd and it's growing our village is threatened. You say it's easy to find out, let's organize a scout party and check. The scout party finds big round footprints. "Still no elephants" I say. Eventually we find them and I am eaten, because I didn't arm myself against "nonexistant" elephants. What to do about them and why they're carnivorous is another issue.

Finally the politics and tax issues. Sorry, but I don't care about either. Politics is usually boring and I pay other high taxes that are easier to reduce. Sorry your carbon taxes are high. I'll focus on accurately quantifying the magnitude of the problem.

I enjoy debating with you guys when I have time. +1's to Zelcorpion and Aenigmarius.
Reply
#39

Mini ice age, Winter is coming

Quote: (07-14-2015 03:27 PM)thebassist Wrote:  

I missed the mention of Chris Monckton actually. Guy's an intellectual fraud, who people have already spent way too much time debunking. If he's one of the best that the anti-anthro climate change people have to offer, then I don't really have much left to say on the topic.







http://static.stthomas.edu/jpabraham/?ut...esentation

I also see that he's contributed to the site you posted. I can't say I'm familiar with it, but given the content above, surely not a very good indication for this site.

Seldom seen more bullshit - typical debunker wanker. First attacking personality, then not even attacking the data cited by Monckton, but going straight to citing other fake bullshit studies to "prove" how wrong global-warming-skeptics are.

[Image: H2m1mvd.gif]

Lap it all up!
Reply
#40

Mini ice age, Winter is coming

Guys, you're missing the obvious question here:

WYB?

[Image: EE_Valentina-Zharkova_StaffProfile_255.jpg]

https://www.northumbria.ac.uk/about-us/o...-zharkova/

"Imagine" by HCE | Hitler reacts to Battle of Montreal | An alternative use for squid that has never crossed your mind before
Reply
#41

Mini ice age, Winter is coming

Quote: (10-17-2015 09:52 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

Guys, you're missing the obvious question here:

WYB?

[Image: EE_Valentina-Zharkova_StaffProfile_255.jpg]

https://www.northumbria.ac.uk/about-us/o...-zharkova/

Asking that question in a room of RVF guys:

[Image: rick-morty-comedian.gif?w=720&h=404]
Reply
#42

Mini ice age, Winter is coming

Quote: (10-17-2015 09:52 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

Guys, you're missing the obvious question here:

WYB?

[Image: sost.gif]
Reply
#43

Mini ice age, Winter is coming

Guys,

Read "Twilight of Abundance" by David Archbald about the coming mini-ice age. I think the guy is right.

http://www.amazon.com/Twilight-Abundance...op?ie=UTF8

He also predicts a rather gruesome fate for the Muslim Middle-east as a result of global cooling.
Reply
#44

Mini ice age, Winter is coming

Quote: (10-17-2015 11:33 AM)Abelard Lindsey Wrote:  

Guys,

Read "Twilight of Abundance" by David Archbald about the coming mini-ice age. I think the guy is right.

http://www.amazon.com/Twilight-Abundance...op?ie=UTF8

He also predicts a rather gruesome fate for the Muslim Middle-east as a result of global cooling.

Nice tip - thanks.

Quote:Quote:

Over the next twenty to thirty years, we are going back to the climate of the early 19th century as the best case outcome, or the climate of the late 17th century at worst. Here in the mid-latitudes of North America, growing conditions will move three hundred miles south from their current position. The United States will be producing twenty percent less grain by 2030, taking the United States out of export markets. Grain prices will return to 19thcentury levels in constant dollar terms.

I don't entirely agree with his analysis about the rest of his predictions.

Food production can be ramped up tremendously. The people in Europe survived even with Medieval technology in the 17th century. Currently both the EU as well as the US are subsidizing farmland to do nothing. But he is right that a global cooling will bring tremendous problems to the developing world. It will increase food prices to such a degree that shit will hit the fan in the entire Middle East incl. Africa.

Western Countries or probably China may even occupy African territories by force to produce food. African soil is extremely fertile and could produce food for 7 billion people, but it won't be cheap and the Africans won't be able to do it alone.

Technology also can solve housing in the Northern Hemisphere - we can create entire domed cities - I have even seen such designs already.

But what is clear is that it will cause tremendous bloodshed, turmoil and new wars. The global cooling is supposed to start around 2016 - so next year already and the sun cycle predictions are much more accurate than the crap that the CO2 idiots keep farting out. (We could have 1000% more CO2 in the atmosphere and it would benefit us all.)

I was reminded of this thread as I read an article in a mainstream magazine. I have heard the prediction years ago by another "renegade" climatologist who does weather forecasts via sun-spot analysis. He makes a good living - his forecasts are incredibly accurate months in advance and they are purchased by big agriculture companies and corporations.

Well - seems like a lot of things will be getting tougher in the future. I think that the sunspot activity theory is much more credible and if climatology wasn't hijacked by the anti-human depopulation taxation green agenda, then we would know about it already.
Reply
#45

Mini ice age, Winter is coming

I take it y'all aren't familiar with Robert Felix? :

http://www.iceagenow.com/


Sure, man made pollution is foolish if nothing else.
Yet, between wayward solar activity.
Undersea volcanic activity.
A weakened earthly magnetic field.
There's far more to the whole story.

Then there's Milo Yiannopoulos's claim on the Joe Rogan podcast that he witnessed forgery / manipulation during the earlier 'global warming' conferences.
Reply
#46

Mini ice age, Winter is coming

Quote: (10-17-2015 03:56 PM)CynicalContrarian Wrote:  

I take it y'all aren't familiar with Robert Felix? :

http://www.iceagenow.com/


Sure, man made pollution is foolish if nothing else.
Yet, between wayward solar activity.
Undersea volcanic activity.
A weakened earthly magnetic field.
There's far more to the whole story.

Then there's Milo Yiannopoulos's claim on the Joe Rogan podcast that he witnessed forgery / manipulation during the earlier 'global warming' conferences.

While the info is valid one thing is the solar activity which shifts every few decades or centuries as it seems. That little Ice Age would just mean a colder climate, but you could still grow food in Sweden for example.

A real Ice Age from 18.000 years ago however is only possible via a massive magnetic shift and usually the disruption of the gulf stream. That does not happen overnight but takes centuries. Nothing we do as humans for now comes even close to make this happen - not even a nuclear WW3.

So yes- mini Ice Age is not uncommon and could happen, real Ice Age where we are covered with glaciers up until Germany and there is tundra until Italy - well that is something else altogether. Unless there are massive cataclysms and tectonic shifts with billions of dead beforehand, I don't see how this will happen within years or decades. Also - there is nothing we can do about it.

Advance in technology however is always a good idea.
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