[Exquirenoir]

(08-14-2015 12:39 PM)Kieran Wrote:  

^ Always amazes me that a country with such an amazing history of dance music (Detroit Techno, Chicago House) could be into such shite.

Off topic : Chicago had some crazy DJs spinning dope mixes back in the early 90's.
I remember having that tape deck ready to record. Anytime ....Anywhere!!!

[Kingsley Davis]

[Akula]

(08-14-2015 01:10 AM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  

(08-13-2015 08:47 AM)Sonoma Wrote:  

In San Francisco the bars are alive and well- few cover charges, relatively cheap drinks and a lot of young people.

There are plenty of great cocktail bars, but most of that action revolves around social circle game. The gaming aspect of SF has been done to death in other threads, but suffice it to say it isn't the best city - SoCal is much better.

I think clubs generally are dying a slow death, at least in the west. Once upon a time, you could go to any city where you didn't know anyone, have your game wired tight, hit a club and stand a good chance of a ONS or at least a couple of numbers. Definitely not the case now in ManFrancisco, where the clubs truly suck. Same problems - way too many guys, overpriced cover charges, rip off bottle $ervice, ridiculously loud (and often bad) music with prison guard bouncers. When only 25-30% of the crowd is female and half of them brought boyfriends, it just isn't worth it.

This is spot on, especially the last sentence (at least in most of the Anglosphere cities outside NYC and Vegas, maybe Miami).

I'm constantly amazed at how bad the "value proposition" is in most clubs in the bigger US cities. Horrible ratios with less than say 10-20% of the club consisting of women who are truly available or bangable. The rest are either club / bottle rats, entitled fatties, attention-seeking pairs of girls or bachelorette parties or girls there with guys. Not worth it.

[N°6]

(08-14-2015 02:03 AM)rotekz Wrote:  

The quality and originality of electronic dance music has been nosediving since the late 90's. I used to club/dj a lot but it lost the magic post 2000. Maybe I just got old but for me the golden age of UK clubbing was '89 to mid 90's.

You might be in the position to answer this question: Why hasn't 'Electro' music taken off in the UK?

When I lived in France, a lot of its nightclubs played this music. It wasn't offensive music in that you could enjoy it AND enjoy conversations at the same time.

[N°6]

(08-14-2015 11:37 PM)Kingsley Davis Wrote:  

Very interesting although there is too much emphasis in the 'geek' thing.

'Gamer bars' are no different than the old card playing or chess playing bars.

[mogsy]

(08-15-2015 04:55 AM)N°6 Wrote:  

You might be in the position to answer this question: Why hasn't 'Electro' music taken off in the UK?

When I lived in France, a lot of its nightclubs played this music. It wasn't offensive music in that you could enjoy it AND enjoy conversations at the same time.

It seems that the djs are only interested in playing cheesy music that they think the crowd will like, its very rare to go to bars and actually hear a new track nevermind something that hasn't even been released yet.

Most of the bars and clubs now see djs as just a commodity and the cheaper the better, I know some that don't even pay as there are so many people wanting to dj they will do it for free or just some free drinks. Combine the free djs with a bar owner who is a cheapskate means the music is going to be the same rubbish, playing the same cheesy stuff every week. The cheap djs then are too scared to play music they want because the bar owners complain if its not inline with their views of good music.

It seems that indie rock and the usual pop music is the most common music being played over and over.

[beta_plus]

Attractive Women, whose number is shrinking due to declining birth rates plus rising obesity, no longer feel the need to go to bars and clubs to meet men thanks to Tinder - they can go straight for the alpha male by just swiping. Men are not going to pay nearly $10 for a place that does not have those women to meet, and therefore the bars will empty out. We're seeing the same thing in DC. Many of the bars on the outskirts in Arlington and Georgetown are closing (Gtown does not appear to have any place left after Rhinos closing that one could consider even a bit clubby), while more central places like Dupont and U street are noticeably quiet even on what should be prime nights

[Ethan Hunt]

(08-15-2015 11:13 AM)mogsy Wrote:  

(08-15-2015 04:55 AM)N°6 Wrote:  

You might be in the position to answer this question: Why hasn't 'Electro' music taken off in the UK?

When I lived in France, a lot of its nightclubs played this music. It wasn't offensive music in that you could enjoy it AND enjoy conversations at the same time.

It seems that the djs are only interested in playing cheesy music that they think the crowd will like, its very rare to go to bars and actually hear a new track nevermind something that hasn't even been released yet.

Most of the bars and clubs now see djs as just a commodity and the cheaper the better, I know some that don't even pay as there are so many people wanting to dj they will do it for free or just some free drinks. Combine the free djs with a bar owner who is a cheapskate means the music is going to be the same rubbish, playing the same cheesy stuff every week. The cheap djs then are too scared to play music they want because the bar owners complain if its not inline with their views of good music.

It seems that indie rock and the usual pop music is the most common music being played over and over.

There's a club in my town that does play electro and needless to say it is DOMINATED by non English. I'd say around 90% of the patrons are from EE.

It's interesting that you mention DJ's working for free. I know of a few clubs that have ran two month long competitions for a "residency" spot. During that period they can benefit by having enthusiastic DJ's play for free. I never really considered the cost saving motivation behind it. I did work for a club that had two residents and they were both paid in cash each night.

If they DJ looks cooler he will generally play cooler songs though. There is a reason why they do play the same "cheesy" songs and it is because they want the crowd singing. There was a time where you could guarantee that the last song played was either Robbie Williams - Angels, The Killers - Mr Brightside or Kings of Lion - Sex On Fire. They were easy to get the crowd, especially girls, singing along and draw my guys to the floor.

One bar I went to a few years ago had a room on the top floor playing some techno where the DJ was mixing on the computer and the beats were played on an electric drum kit by another musician. It was a fairly small set but the music was pretty incredible. The room was not that busy though which was a shame. But it was great to see that they'd put real effort into their work.

[ManVsMachine]

(08-14-2015 01:10 AM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  

(08-13-2015 08:47 AM)Sonoma Wrote:  

In San Francisco the bars are alive and well- few cover charges, relatively cheap drinks and a lot of young people.

There are plenty of great cocktail bars, but most of that action revolves around social circle game. The gaming aspect of SF has been done to death in other threads, but suffice it to say it isn't the best city - SoCal is much better.

I think clubs generally are dying a slow death, at least in the west. Once upon a time, you could go to any city where you didn't know anyone, have your game wired tight, hit a club and stand a good chance of a ONS or at least a couple of numbers. Definitely not the case now in ManFrancisco, where the clubs truly suck. Same problems - way too many guys, overpriced cover charges, rip off bottle $ervice, ridiculously loud (and often bad) music with prison guard bouncers. When only 25-30% of the crowd is female and half of them brought boyfriends, it just isn't worth it.

Well I will say both SF and LA are significantly better than most other cities in the USA and Canada. There are some better Mexican cities, in my honest opinion, though.

SoCal women seem to have a bit higher standards than SF women. You're competing with C-E list celebrities, more musicians and wannabe artists and photographers, the Hollywood scene in general, and the wealthier men there have significantly more game than the ones in SF. SoCal is significantly more "who you know" as well - just like Vegas and South beach, many guys just will get flat out denied to the clubs that have a lot of single and interested women. There are most definitely hotter women in SoCal than SF/Oakland, but they are just that much harder to even pull. SF women will also do a lot of the work, and will reciprocate a bit more. But you have to take this with a grain of salt because what works for me might not work for everyone else. I do have a couple of clubs that I still love in SF, that haven't really hit the radar of the sausages yet. But perhaps that has changed in the last 6 months since I've been.


That being said, the influx of desperate men from Silicon Valley have really hurt SF in recent years. But its often easy to distinguish yourself from them - just dress different!!

[Kieran]

Electro was big here around 2004 - 2007 sort of time. DJs like Erol Alkan, Meat Katie, and Stanton Warriors were all over the place at events up and down the country at that time. Then the whole French electro thing started getting big with Ed Banger records (Justice, Surkin, etc.). Times change though and it all suddenly seemed kind of dated. Minimal Techno was big at the same time and kept going pretty strong for a while but that faded too.

[Saweeep]

There are a million and one reasons; it's a death by a thousand cuts scenario. I have friends who own nightclub businesses from small clubs to large chains; none are doing very well. I live in a 1,000,000+ city and Friday nights are so quiet it's eerie. 10 years ago I would go out Thursday/Friday/Saturday and the city was jumping each night.

In no significant order:

The smoking ban. It may have happened nearly 10 years ago but the clubs never recovered from this.

The credit crunch. So many people partied the naughties away on borrowed money and house price inflation money. Almost overnight I went from seeing Cristal every evening at my friend's club to not once since. Seriously.

Low wages for young people. This situation seems to be getting worse.

Housing costs for young people. I've heard that many youngsters spend 50% of their wages on rent. Does;t leave much left over for going out.

Weekend millionaire syndrome. It seems to me that your average guy would rather go out once per month and drop a few hundred quid so he can pretend to be a baller and brag on Facebook/Instagram.

The high cost of drugs. Cocaine has tripled in price in the last 10 years.

Competition from supermarkets. Low priced drinks make drinking at home a no brainer for a lot of people.

24 hour opening at multiple venues has saturated the market. The number of slices in the pie is too large and lots of places cannot cope.

Restaurant bars are scooping up lots of the traditional club punters.

Commercial rents are on the up again. Business rates (business tax) are ridiculous for nightclubs. Many local authorities are actively trying to reduce the number of night time venues, so licencing can be expensive and a general pain in the ass.

Taxis have become very pricey also. Public transport at night is either non existent or bloody dangerous.

ID checks. When I was young, getting into clubs and pubs underage was very easy. Nobody cared. We had our own pub in the city centre when I was at school that was 99% our 6th Form (15-18 year olds). That would be impossible now.


This is on top of the reasons others have mentioned in the thread; Tinder etc.

[mogsy]

Thought i would do a quick update as a recent visit to a club did annoy me, recently I went to a extremely poor nightclub that was meant to be the best in the area, it was a scam from the start to the finish, it makes going to a club to meet people into a chore.

Firstly the queue to the place was at least 50 people deep which meant a 30 minute wait at gone 1am, bouncers are rude and not friendly (Understandable given the customers states), eventually get to the door to be charged £10 for a place that will now be open less than 2 hours. Get into the place, can't move from all the people, after the now 45 minute wait its time to get a drink, spend 10 minutes trying to find the best bar to go to, find one and have to wait 15 minutes to be served. Great finally get to speak to the bar man, only to be told they have no glasses left, great off to another bar and another only to be stuck in queues and no hope in sight. Decide to come back to the first bar and see people now getting drinks, wait another 10 minutes listen to the drunk stories of the kid next to me, now nearly 2 hours from the last drink and the idea to go to this club I manage to get to buy a basic beer in a can for £6. With the hassle of going through this all the time its no wonder people have a bad attitude if they feel they are being taken for a ride, I'll not speak about the women as they were loud, had attitude and thought they owned the place.

With nights like this I realise how day game can be very attractive to people.

[jbkunt2]

The bar and nightclub scene in the UK is alive and well. There are freaky a ridiculous amount of nightclubs in England to begin with.

A town here in the US of 50k people will have a handful of bars. Back in England, it will have 30 or so.

[rpg]

One of the best bars in town here is run by the son of a rich dad. Bar barely breaks even. Dad put him up in business for something to do and son still lives at home. With $4 imports and $3 domestic beers how does anybody expect to make money? Mixed drinks are $8. Most cheapskates still stick with Budlight.
Ladies are not putting much effort into fixing themselves up and going out so their numbers are low.

[Foolsgo1d]

I have always admired the confectionery & drinks hustle many entertainment places make.

Worked in a cinema. Large tub of popcorn:£4.50 at the time of 2011. The popcorn came in large sleeves in cardboard boxes with 4 to a box. Each box cost 50p to buy from the manufacturer.

Most bars and clubs have cheap shitty vodka. Even the mid-range places don't do Russian standard or Smirnoff quality. Each case of 10 1 litre bottles cost less than a tenner. A shot of vodka on Friday/saturday outside of London would set you back £3.00 A double:4:50.

Its a quick buck making enterprise and the you see typical commercial rents at 18-24 months to guarantee income on the premises for the building owner. Its a win-win. The only places which stay open for longer are chains and they're soulless.

[Thoroughbred]

The Dance music club heyday was always late 90's to early 00's. At that time, dance music was new (to the mainstream) exiting and prolific. International Dj's truly were the worlds new superstars and commanded legions of fans.

And all this was pre social media.

Also, drugs were pure, high quality and prolific. This added to the international cult like status of what was going on.
These days, I hear the market is flooded with absolute trash made by small time crims trying to cash in. Added to this the current crop of narcotics has what you would call more antisocial effects which doesn't do much for the vibe at the parties.

There are a fair few good behavioural science/game/gender relational points getting made by other posters and I agree with most of them. But dance music, and the associated night club culture responsible for packing out venues, was essentially a fad, and it passed. Not much more to it than that.

[eljeffster]

As this thread appears to have expanded to more than just UK clubs.

Trying to think if there are any straight guys I know who would go to a club for any other purpose than pussy. . . nope

As the clubs become less and less conducive to having fun with the pussy you got (warming it up for some hot sex after), or getting new pussy, more and more men will just say screw it.

Here is what I think is happening:

1) Because of Facebook, Tinder and other social media, people go to clubs now with existing groups and/or there is more of a barrier of being "friends" on social media raising the alpha entry costs to meet organically.

2) While clubs should be loud enough that you have to get right up to a girl to talk to her, clubs are now so fucking loud people can't even understand each other then awkwardness of (whaaat?) = less pussy drippings

3) Spastic ADHD had a baby with an epileptic DJ's cutting songs into genetic freak mixing 10 second "clips" messes with dancing. Playing entire 3-4 minute songs was a good way to dance with one girl for a song, dance with another etc.

4) Everything that has been said here about expense.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(11-03-2015 09:21 PM)eljeffster Wrote:  

As this thread appears to have expanded to more than just UK clubs.

Trying to think if there are any straight guys I know who would go to a club for any other purpose than pussy. . . nope

Yeah - men go for pussy, but the thing is this - money is the main reason:



This is the official (ahem) unemployment rate for 16-24 year olds. The 25-30 demographic does not look much better.

So disposable income for the 18-30 crowd is all important - and especially to the male crowd, since female expenditure does not really count. Anyone heard of the mancession? It's real as young women get much easier employment in the bullshit jobs than men in our times.

1. Money
2. Technological changes - online dating, especially for the hotties - they can go straight for the minor celeb or male model
3. Fattening, less attractive women in clubs except in top-tier clubs where footballers and sons of oligarchs party - the rest of the clubs are getting the fuglies and even they don't come
4. Red Pill is making a minor dent among some men, who would otherwise go out every week, but instead rely on Daygame, online dating and bars for easier access to pussy
5. Foreign born population - and especially of those that certainly don't go to clubs:

This is an incomplete graph, but you get the gist. More diversity, less clubbing.

The trend will continue by the way with mainly the high-end venues remaining. And even those may shift to grand private parties by the super-rich as men can sift out the fatties and avoid the cock-fest.

Personally I think that professional private party planning for the wealthy will become a growth market. The 8+ hotties can go there, you invite a footballer or two for attraction and get a solid 3 to 1 female to male ratio. When enough of the wealthy do this, then night clubs might become obsolete.

Also - the media's assumption of cyclicality is faulty as always - it coincided mainly with economic cycles in the past and there won't be any real improvement for the majority of the population in the next years and decades.

[262]

I know this has been mentioned on the forum before, but as for why nightclubs in the West are closing, add:

- Chumming the waters by bribing/paying girls to come, so guys feel it isn't a sausage-fest and pay up, only to end up hitting on girls who have no intention of interacting with anyone.

[Guitarman]

The collapse of British night clubs has had a great benefit in another area. We get a younger audience now for local live bands. There are more live music venues than there used to be.

[Lime]

If you smoke on the dancefloor, what will the bouncer do:

UK: they will kick you out without your jacket

Netherlands, Belgium: they will kindly ask to extinguish your cigarette and would even ask it a second time in a lot of cases.

Also drink prices are much better in NL and Belgium.

Not that clubs here are THAT good of course but in the land of blind people the man with one eye is king.