[Zanardi]

What have I done since the beginning of the year (more precisely, March) to increase my SMV:

1. Quit poker, after about 9 years of playing. Although I love this game, I wasn't too talented and/or didn't know what to exactly study and improve for myself to reach higher stakes. Never left the micros. When I finally got into a coaching for profit program, I was too burned out to continue. In a way, I am sorry that I remained at the micros, but other opportunities emerged;
2. I got a dream job (for me, at least): lecturer at the University in my town. Not only I love what I am doing, I am CONSTANTLY in touch with people and young female students. It's game (except for the sexual part) for 5 days a week;
3. Absolutely quit Facebook. I use it only to chat with my students and my friends. I don't even have the apps installed on my smartphone;
4. Daygame. Approach girls. Right now, my AA is gone, which means that I can approach any girl on the street. However, I need to game the entire city to get a decent number of approaches;
5. Meditation. I began doing since the beginning of august. I don't see any results yet, but I think they will come on the long term.
   

A fist consequence of the actions that I took is that my confidence levels got to a level that I never thought possible. I became brutally honest and I always speak my mind, most of the time without thinking or caring what will the other person will think about me.

What I will keep doing:

1. Travelling. I had travelled throughout the entire country since I was a teenager. Now, at 32, I can say that I saw the entire Romania;
2. Exercise. I don't go to the gym (yet), but I am doing cycling in the summer and skating in the winter. I will add running starting September, with the help of Strava. I am also tempted to try this;
3. I will expand my gaming opportunities. I will go to nightclubs as well, at least once or twice a month and to as many social events as I can;
4. Finances. I will continue to live frugally and to keep adding to my savings. One day I want to visit faraway countries like Hong Kong, Guatemala, Brazil, etc.;
5. Reading. My Kindle is my best friend. I have a few books on my shortlist.
   

What I will begin doing:

1. Learn Spanish. It's not a tough language, expecially because it is similar to Romanian. Right now, I have no use for it, but I had learned already English and French, so learning another language should be easier. I will begin learning this autumn.
   

[WestIndianArchie]

@N6

Put the manager and employee at the club, where the boss's position is no longer a part of his value, and the employee can easily out value the boss to chicks. I've been that employee.

Whoever came up with this dumb idea doesn't bag chicks and never bagged them. Bitches don't care that you can speak Italian or you've got a private rooftop deck. Whisper shit in her ear and fuck her in the bar toilet. Then send her back to the bottle service "alphas"

The only value that counts is how you make the chick feel. Everything else is ego stroking and intellectual masturbation.

That's the lesson of body builder CEO versus Blizerian.

WIA

[General Stalin]

Not so sure I agree with you there WIA. Guys who look better or have overtly more assets than the other guy will, from a distance, have more baseline options with women. Maybe the staff accountant at office XYZ has more game than Hugh Jackman, but you think that means he can get more pussy if they both walk into a club?

I'll make it easier - lets say Hugh isn't famous or a known celebrity. Just a dude. If these two guys walk into a club who do you think gets more pick-of-the-pussy of the bat?


average game when talking to women


exceptional game when talking to women

"Sexual Market Value" is part of the all encompassing idea of game. Making yourself look more attractive, being more interesting, and being more valuable to a woman. Another way to look at it would be if two guys had the exact same level of game and both knew how to talk to woman and had the same tactics - the guy who looks better, maybe has more social proof, has more money, better style, etc. is going to do better.

[Off The Reservation]

(08-11-2016 07:37 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

@N6

Put the manager and employee at the club, where the boss's position is no longer a part of his value, and the employee can easily out value the boss to chicks. I've been that employee.

Whoever came up with this dumb idea doesn't bag chicks and never bagged them. Bitches don't care that you can speak Italian or you've got a private rooftop deck. Whisper shit in her ear and fuck her in the bar toilet. Then send her back to the bottle service "alphas"

The only value that counts is how you make the chick feel. Everything else is ego stroking and intellectual masturbation.

That's the lesson of body builder CEO versus Blizerian.

WIA

[XPQ22]

(08-11-2016 10:16 AM)General Stalin Wrote:  


exceptional game when talking to women

Dude could easily raise himself about 1.5 "points" in the looks department by growing a beard, getting a shorter haircut, and putting on a little muscle.

I know I've pissed and moaned about New England before, but I try to look for silver linings these days and it's true what you say: most guys just don't know how to talk to women in a way which interests them. It's something that only comes through experience and just hard work, taking the time out every day to even just chat with the college student working behind the counter at Starbucks for a few minutes.

Just doesn't seem like a lot of guys are putting in the work.

[Phoenix]

(08-11-2016 07:37 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Whoever came up with this dumb idea doesn't bag chicks and never bagged them. Bitches don't care that you can speak Italian or you've got a private rooftop deck. Whisper shit in her ear and fuck her in the bar toilet. Then send her back to the bottle service "alphas"

The only value that counts is how you make the chick feel. Everything else is ego stroking and intellectual masturbation.

Feelgood nonsense.

I submit that you're more committed to your "game" poetry, than you are to the objective facts about what women are most attracted too.

And I say this not to be personal, but so that it might cut down on the number of kids wasting time and energy on having clever "game" mouths, instead of working on more difficult to attain but more attractive traits, such as being wealthy, strong, accomplished, or of high reputation.

Globally, women are definitely more interested in getting pounded by Mr Private Rooftop Deck than Mr Nothing Else Going For Him But Has A Clever Mouth. They're also more interested in getting pounded by Mr Handsome than Mr Nothing Else Going For Him But Has A Clever Mouth, so long as Mr Handsome at least makes the approach and does the basics.

And yes, this is "game denial", a badge I'll wear with pride. "Game" as talked about on the internet, is deliberately vague because of its purpose: to self-comfort with the idea that sex just comes from words instead of cold hard virtue. Otherwise the talk would only be about courtship specifics. "Having game" is a concept so nebulous, broad, and unspecific that it serves only to comfort or mislead.

One of the most amusing things that have come out of this is how often I hear the term "game" used by Americans overseas, and the way they use it. Even kids who are complete losers talking about how "those guys don't have game". Funniest was when I heard one guy say it about another guy when he was away, only to hear the same from that guy about his compatriot later on. These are guys putting their hope on some nebulous idea in their head that "they have game", whilst Mr Pretty Boy, Mr Jacked, Mr Wealthy, Mr Cool are all off getting their dick wet.

Game, AKA "courtship", is simply not an aspect of attractiveness. It is not an aspect of SMV. It is nothing more than negotiation upon the traits already brought to the table.

The figures that young men should be paying the most attention to are those like LINUX & Co, posting clear records of sexual success, rather than "game" poetry and "theories".

On wealth specifically, I've had the good fortune of having a friend who became very wealthy and is now retired. This guy retains like no other. Hes quite a bit older but bangs young chicks the same age that I do, as fast or even faster, but after they get a whiff of his wealth they stick around like no other. He has to, and does actually tell them upfront, "I just want sex" to stop them getting attached, but it doesn't even make them hesitate.

If I wanted to be more sexually successful, I'd choose pretty much every other trait before I chose "game".

[WestIndianArchie]

You finally gonna go ad hominem after lots of thinly veiled comments over the years. Congratulations. I hope you encourage all the other guys on the sidelines to start speaking up.

Meanwhile those of us who've been going out for a long time see the pretty boys, the rich guys, the tall dudes, the meatheads attract women and can't close em. A lot of the time guys that you think should be killing it are playing the wall. Lonely dorks with bottle service.

"Maybe if I drop down to 8% body fat"
"Ugh, if I wasn't only making 350 k"

Nothing external replaces being comfortable talking to girls.

I don't need anyone to believe my "poetry".

They need to focus on the guys they see everyday that have all that shit but don't have the results. And if they're smart look for the guys without all that getting chicks

They need to go up against these high SMV clowns and take the chick.

If that seems impossible to them, despite seeing all of the failures of this stupid SMV garbage around them, then they need to pack up and head to Southeast Asia.

WIA

[Phoenix]

(08-11-2016 12:48 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

I hope you encourage all the other guys on the sidelines to start speaking up.

Nah, they know precedent. For established members, they can only do so if another member with equal rep starts it. I'll happily put my head up though, as I always have. You're happy to jump in here with your dismissive one-liner about how SMV is a bad concept, I'm happy to call you out on your magical "whisper something in their ear and you get to fuck them in the toilets!" concept. We've heard a "I saw dreambig pull the hotter chick after 10 minutes" from vouched members, We've seen a LINUX and Atlantic trophy photo, we've seen a leightonblackstock datasheet with him standing next to girls and scotch's datasheet with full statistics.

All I'm saying to the younger and more impressionable folk, is that if someone implies he can whisper something in a chicks ear and pull them into the toilets in the face of higher SMV men, that's not necessarily false, but buyer beware, and do your due diligence. Saying game and SMV should be considered equal is one thing, calling SMV "stupid garbage" is something else.

[General Stalin]

Dismissing the topic of sexual market value all together just because "paper alphas" don't have as easy of a time getting pussy is not correlative. It's all part of game and it's all relative to it.

Like I said, all things being equal, if Guy A has more going for him (looks, money, lifestyle, social life, access) than Guy B - then Guy A is going to be the better option for women of course.

I think the hang up here is saying that guys can do well by simply making money, wearing nice clothes, and paying for VIP access and bottle service. I don't think anyone at all is implying that - you still need to talk to women and know how to talk to them - but the gray area is the fudge factor. As you said WIA, the "pretty boys, the rich guys, the tall dudes, the meatheads attract women and can't close em" - their SMV gives them a lot of wiggle room. It's something that should not be ignore for anyone trying to be successful with women.

[WestIndianArchie]

You want me to post pics and video? Lemme get an xhamster account real quick.

Cause I want the chicks I've banged to find me and fuck me over like Linux and Naughty Nomad. Respect to them dudes, but that's never been the code for precisely those reasons.

Meanwhile these young dudes are going to go out and notice the tall jocks getting girls and not pay attention to all of the tall well built guys holding up the wall looking at their phones. You can't breakdown why a 6'3" guy is by himself, but a 5'9" has a girl on his arm.

The new guys will confirm their own bias.
They believe this shit. It makes sense to them.

But it's not even their own thoughts on the matter. It's not like they've personally tested it. It's just what they have been told.

The same propaganda that this so-called sick society has been selling them.

Get jacked and get rich, and then you can get girls.

Not tall, fuck you
Not rich, fuck you
23% body fat, kill yourself

And please don't be Indian or Asian

Those impressionable minds following this malarkey won't notice the average looking guy having a conversation with the cute chick. He must know her, that's the only explanation.

I go to all kinds of spots, but black clubs in in particular have muscle bound tall dudes in spades. Like you gotta be some kinda ball player to get in. Bunch of em have something foreign in the parking lot, and wearing a few rent payments. They get attention, sure, but do all of them close? How can a guy without the bullshit get girl when a guy who has everything goes home to tube porn?

Oh that's right black chicks are all special snowflakes that don't react to SMV.

White clubs typically lack in the sheer physicality, but make up for it with dollars.

Surely the junior investment bankers can pull tail out of Pianos or Brooklyn Bowl?

But is a 22 year old chick dancing to chain smokers really care about Mr. Goldstein's net worth?

Like she's got a Bloomberg account on her iPhone and will do a quick stock price check, to see if his large pharmaceutical holding is open to obvious fat tail events?

She fucks her ex from high school, bartender, the promoter, and the dj.

She fucks guys that turn her on, not resumes.

Australia is full of Zyxx wannabes, yet how many of those guys are trying to get the hell out to greener sexual pastures?

Please don't believe my poetry. Believe your own eyes.

But you're purposely not looking at real life and selling people on bullshit. Bullshit they have already been sold on. Bullshit that we know doesn't work.

WIA

[WestIndianArchie]

@GS

High SMV gets attention. If a chick fucks you off of attention, she fucks you despite your game. You don't have choice. You cast a wide net and take in whatever.

Game is about choice.

A preacher gives a sermon, and he knows he's going to cause people to reflect.

An actor pretending to be someone else will deliver a monologue

A therapist asks a question that she knows will uncover something.

A cop has a conversation with a suspect in a hotel lobby and the suspect opens up and reveals clues to a murder

A comedian gets on stage, doesn't say a word, and his purposeful silence causes laughter.

A businessman ( fat and losing his hair) with no experience in government manages to tap into voters that have been silent for decades beating out all of the established and well regarded men who were the choice of many others as well as businessmen themselves.

Yet you guys want to talk continue this farce about SMV? The will have your taking steroids and wasting your youth chasing stock returns?

Excuse me while I stand next to this Rolls Royce for my Seeking Arrangement profile.

WIA

[XPQ22]

^ One of the nicest compliments I got from one of the best looking girls I pulled from OKCupid was via text the day after we banged on our first night out. "I was a little leery of online dating. But I wasn't scared by you...I was excited by you."

Note she said "excited by you." Not "excited by your $35 wardrobe from Kohls, or where you live (which she never saw, I could've lived with my parents for all she knew), or your Amazon Visa card, or your fairly average looks for a 30-something white guy."

[the high]

When the sun dies ending all life on this planet as we know it, guys will still be debating looks vs game till the very end.

[MY DETROIT PLAYAS]

Who would you rather be Sam Rothstein or Lester?

[TooFineAPoint]

In my terribly limited experience...

ask any attractive female you know (lover, ex, friend, or an acquaintance of any of the prior three types). If she is even a little honest, she has fucked a lot uglier, dumber, poorer, do-nothing pieces of shit than you would ever care to know.

That being said, I understand the SMV concept to make opens easier, and to allow for recovery from some minor fuckups. Plus it makes other aspects of life easier & more fun.

I'd rather have Casino DeNiro's life in everything except women (and maybe best friends). In terms of women, Woods has him beat hands down.

"baby this is the best thing for us right now, you're gonna be situated just right in Vegas... I see you there, see you for the first time, long legged colt, stupid braces on your teeth..."

[ksbms]

(08-11-2016 10:16 AM)General Stalin Wrote:  

Not so sure I agree with you there WIA. Guys who look better or have overtly more assets than the other guy will, from a distance, have more baseline options with women. Maybe the staff accountant at office XYZ has more game than Hugh Jackman, but you think that means he can get more pussy if they both walk into a club?

I'll make it easier - lets say Hugh isn't famous or a known celebrity. Just a dude. If these two guys walk into a club who do you think gets more pick-of-the-pussy of the bat?


average game when talking to women

Come on, Jackman's picture is high stylised, taken by a pro photographer with studio lighting and enhanced with photoshop whereas the other is just a selfie. It's like comparing in a race a Formula 1 car racer with a a full team at your disposal against a dude in a VW Golf. Surely, if the other guy had the picture taken with all that was available to Jackman, it would look much more appealing.

Speaking of game, your choice of Jackman as an example, seems a tad unfortunate at best. It seems he might not have that much game (or any at all), for his wife, however interesting and great woman and wife she might be, in terms of looks... well, just google her.

[General Stalin]

(08-11-2016 02:20 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

...
She fucks her ex from high school, bartender, the promoter, and the dj.
...

This is the point that's being made. You mention their titles. Why? The bartender, the promoter, and the dj aren't nobodies. They have high SMV. That's the point. Are they are stonecold players with stellar game? Not necessarily, which is why you mention their titles - it's relevant. Who they are, what they do, their social status. That shit plays a factor.

Like I said, it's not correlative to say nice clothes + money + muscles = pussy. You're still dismissing something that is most definitely a large factor in what makes a man attractive.

You say a girl fucking you because you have high SMV means you are getting laid despite your game, then you say dudes with apparently everything going for them on paper are going home empty handed - obviously not despite their game. Which is it?

I'll repeat myself again - no one ever said SMV is a replacement for knowing how to talk to women and turn them on.

Quote:

High SMV gets attention.

Exactly. That's as simple as it gets. It opens more doors and give you more options out of the gate. Would you say it is not worth someone's time money and energy to cultivate a good style, have an attractive physique, and make a comfortable income to afford luxuries? Are you saying none of those matter?

edit: @ksbms

I'll make it easy for you - jackman is better looking. Better style, better physique, better haircut, etc. He's by just about all objective standards a more attractive cat.

As for his wife, she is hideous and old but I dunno man I'd call it a special case as they've been married 20 years. Way before he was famous. She wasn't particularly good looking when she was young either... whatever irrelevant as I'm basing this example purely off of what you can glean by just looking at someone.

[Vinny]

Whether we like it or not all goes into count. Some more some less, but looks, status, talents, behavior all matters.

What I have done to increase my SMV:

1. Improved my game. Especially body language and behavior when talking to girls. Game is value in itself. Confidence make them panties wet.
2. Working out (still in progress to get to perfection though). Working on your looks and style. For example I changed my hairstyle and every girl says it suits me way better than my previous style. Combine shopping with dates. Girls know more about style.
3. Work on your talents. For example I play guitar and sing. (in eastern Europe Karaoke date if you sing well is an instant leg spreader)
4. Travel extensively and get life experiences you can talk about to demonstrate your value.
5. Get smarter. Read books, learn languages, visit museums while on your pussy chasing travels. Combine it with dates if you will. In Russia especially some girls are painfully literate and smart. They will blow you off for just not being able to maintain conversation about War and Peace. This part also helps in every other social aspect in life.
6. Be fun. Do fun things. Be more loud, more social, more noticeable. Quit watching TV and computer gaming. Quit porn. Go out there.

7. Build online persona. Take points 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 get photos and videos proving that you have that and display them on social media. Then use social media as your closing tool, so all the girls you meet get a scope of you.

Points 2 and 7 are what I am working on now. Arguably you can include point 1 in your online persona display by having photos and selfies with hot girls you meet, but in some places it can hurt you. In Ukraine and Russia, many girls will disregard you on a slightest hint of you being a player.

For a man on the move it is hard to display status or financial wellbeing. Unless you want to invite girls to expensive restaurants and rent expensive properties on all of your travels. I think that Social Media can help with that too. For example if you travel and post about that might be a sign that you are doing well, same goes with style.
I did buy a nice fake watch, but I am barely wearing it as it is hot here in SEA. I need to experiment more with that to be sure if it has positive effect on SMV.

[Irenicus]

Since there is a mention of Game in this thread (concerned with SMV), I would say that both aspects are...separate, but important.


Let's play sexual economics, shall we?



SMV


In this scenario, you are the "product", and you want to sell yourself. Now, the bigger SMV you have, the better your quality is, and thus, the demand for someone like you will be bigger, and thus, your price.


So, if you are a person of high SMV (or quality), a lot of women will want you (increased demand), and you can ask for a bigger price (8/10's only, for example).

Quote:

BUT THIS IS SHAAAAALOOOW!!!11

Shut the fuck up and make me a sandwich, this is reality.


Now, if your are person of low SMV (or quality), a lot of women will avoid you (low/no demand), and you will be very lucky if you manage to snag one (which will be, in 99.9% of cases, a low quality one), because the demand for such persons (with low SMV) is low.

In short - everyone wants a Porsche 911, and nobody wants a rusty VW Jetta.



Game


Once you have a product (yourself), you want to make it available. Now, if you product is pure quality, and in demand, you do not need to spend a lot of time marketing it - that is, gaming. It will be noticed from afar by lots of customers (IOI baragge), and all you need to do is make sure the "transaction" (number, poon) gets completed, by not fucking up (which requires basic Game, to be honest).

On the other and, if your product is crap, you need to spend much more on advertising (again, Game), to find someone...anyone, who will give you a poon/##.

Quote:

DOWN WITH THE PATR...1!!!!

Where is my sandwich?



In short - the way I see it, both are separate, but important. If you have high SMV, basic Game will do (but you can improve it, if you want, of course). If you have low(er) SMV, you either need advanced Game (very hard), or to increase your SMV (hard).


Fuck me, I am drunk...

[The Black Knight]

(08-11-2016 02:20 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

She fucks guys that turn her on, not resumes.

With the exception of Washington DC* (I kid, I kid... sort of)

As for SMV and the general topic:

1. In one period of my life, I had:

-A relative high prestigious job with sex appeal
-Money
-Stability
-My own place
-A decent environment nearby to meet a ton of fit friendly women
-Compared to peers in my age bracket, I was in the top 10% if looking at me on paper

AND I barely got pussy during this time period and what I got was garbage usually. Simply put, I had no game.

Guys who had the same credentials I had but also had significantly worse looks were getting good pussy. They had game. If ONLY I knew back then what I know now... Jesus....

2. In another period of my life, I had:

-No logistics and a horrible immediate location for meeting women
-No job
-No status (negative status I would argue compared to my peers)
-No social circle
-One of the worst dating environments/markets in the world
-No unique X factor

AND I got a ton of pussy. Not only did I get pussy, I got good pussy a decent chunk of the time. Furthermore, I often got good pussy obsessed with me.

Not only did I get women hot and bothered, I saw and experienced real female natural burning desire. AND I was able to recognize it and capitalize on it over and over and over. That is the power of game and understanding game concepts.

Ideally, you have both ends covered: Money/status/power/looks AND game. A man with both ends covered can be a force of nature obviously. But if I had to pick between the two, I'd choose the latter. In a heartbeat. Every time.

[blck]

As I read the comment of The Black Knight it strike me that the 1st point is the selling of a situation more than a personna.

The 2nd point sell a personnality.

A situation can crumble, a personnality based on tangible expériences is way harder to break.

Now the two coupled make you a gifted one but it rarely happens.

[Off The Reservation]

(08-13-2016 03:21 AM)The Black Knight Wrote:  

(08-11-2016 02:20 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

She fucks guys that turn her on, not resumes.

With the exception of Washington DC* (I kid, I kid... sort of)

As for SMV and the general topic:

1. In one period of my life, I had:

-A relative high prestigious job with sex appeal
-Money
-Stability
-My own place
-A decent environment nearby to meet a ton of fit friendly women
-Compared to peers in my age bracket, I was in the top 10% if looking at me on paper

AND I barely got pussy during this time period and what I got was garbage usually. Simply put, I had no game.

Guys who had the same credentials I had but also had significantly worse looks were getting good pussy. They had game. If ONLY I knew back then what I know now... Jesus....

2. In another period of my life, I had:

-No logistics and a horrible immediate location for meeting women
-No job
-No status (negative status I would argue compared to my peers)
-No social circle
-One of the worst dating environments/markets in the world
-No unique X factor

AND I got a ton of pussy. Not only did I get pussy, I got good pussy a decent chunk of the time. Furthermore, I often got good pussy obsessed with me.

Not only did I get women hot and bothered, I saw and experienced real female natural burning desire. AND I was able to recognize it and capitalize on it over and over and over. That is the power of game and understanding game concepts.

Ideally, you have both ends covered: Money/status/power/looks AND game. A man with both ends covered can be a force of nature obviously. But if I had to pick between the two, I'd choose the latter. In a heartbeat. Every time.

great observation but you dont say why or why you think this happened

[Kid Twist]

this thread reminds me of the "gym bodies and selfies are popping up everywhere --- because men have less value" articles that are forgetting that women in UK and otherwise are garbage and also have jobs that are similar or better.

[StackGsMan]

I know I'm new here, but I've been obsessing over the issue of game vs. smv for the better part of this year. My conclusion has been that while both are important, smv edges out game.

My personal situation is the opposite of what this thread is about, I have LOST a substantial amount of smv over the years.

When I was 21:

1. I had a body that was in the top 5%, or possibly top 1 or 2%, of just about any city you can name. I base this off the fact that I lived in Los Angeles at the time and got crazy IOI's. I was described as "ripped" and "sculpted" and several other synonyms by men and women.
2. Since I was not fat like I am now (which I will get to), my face was probably also generally considered handsome or even very handsome.
3. I had only one notch, which was a LTR. I had very little approaching experience and had to force myself to do almost all of my first approaches. I also had relatively severe social anxiety.

Given that scenario, meaning looks but almost zero game (although I am a pretty smart guy and learned fast), I was sought after by women and given many IOI's. At one point when I was still somewhat of a social retard I pulled my first stripper and she offered to give me all her savings (6k) to be with me.

Now that I am in my late 20's:

1. I am around 300 lbs (6'2''). I don't look like you would imagine a 300 lbs guy to look, meaning I don't look quite as fat, because I have a good amount of muscle. That being said, I am not Ronnie Coleman and I am obviously not less than 10% body fat. I just look like a slightly buff dude with bitch tits.
2. I have approached probably about 200 women total in my life, give or take 50. I've number closed at a relatively high rate, gone on a good number of dates, and my game is objectively MUCH better than when I was 21.

Given my current state, I am not pulling much quality. Since I have moved back to LA, which has been around a month now, I have gotten exactly 0 numbers and 0 dates on my 10-15 approaches. Yes I have had some fun interactions. Yes many of my approaches, in fact almost all of them, were direct openers that were doomed to fail because of my looks. But seriously, 0 numbers in one month? When I was a bumbling idiot at 21 I got MANY more numbers and dates. My eye contact is GREAT, I am very confident, I can keep a conversation going, and I rarely get nervous. All indicators of my higher level of game.


So what does this all mean? SMV trumps game. At the very least SMV increases your close rate by some multiple that far outweighs standard game. What else does this mean? It means I'm hitting the gym tomorrow, not the club.

Just my newbie to the forum 2 cents.

[Off The Reservation]

(09-12-2016 03:34 AM)StackGsMan Wrote:  

I know I'm new here, but I've been obsessing over the issue of game vs. smv for the better part of this year. My conclusion has been that while both are important, smv edges out game.

My personal situation is the opposite of what this thread is about, I have LOST a substantial amount of smv over the years.

When I was 21:

1. I had a body that was in the top 5%, or possibly top 1 or 2%, of just about any city you can name. I base this off the fact that I lived in Los Angeles at the time and got crazy IOI's. I was described as "ripped" and "sculpted" and several other synonyms by men and women.
2. Since I was not fat like I am now (which I will get to), my face was probably also generally considered handsome or even very handsome.
3. I had only one notch, which was a LTR. I had very little approaching experience and had to force myself to do almost all of my first approaches. I also had relatively severe social anxiety.

Given that scenario, meaning looks but almost zero game (although I am a pretty smart guy and learned fast), I was sought after by women and given many IOI's. At one point when I was still somewhat of a social retard I pulled my first stripper and she offered to give me all her savings (6k) to be with me.

Now that I am in my late 20's:

1. I am around 300 lbs (6'2''). I don't look like you would imagine a 300 lbs guy to look, meaning I don't look quite as fat, because I have a good amount of muscle. That being said, I am not Ronnie Coleman and I am obviously not less than 10% body fat. I just look like a slightly buff dude with bitch tits.
2. I have approached probably about 200 women total in my life, give or take 50. I've number closed at a relatively high rate, gone on a good number of dates, and my game is objectively MUCH better than when I was 21.

Given my current state, I am not pulling much quality. Since I have moved back to LA, which has been around a month now, I have gotten exactly 0 numbers and 0 dates on my 10-15 approaches. Yes I have had some fun interactions. Yes many of my approaches, in fact almost all of them, were direct openers that were doomed to fail because of my looks. But seriously, 0 numbers in one month? When I was a bumbling idiot at 21 I got MANY more numbers and dates. My eye contact is GREAT, I am very confident, I can keep a conversation going, and I rarely get nervous. All indicators of my higher level of game.


So what does this all mean? SMV trumps game. At the very least SMV increases your close rate by some multiple that far outweighs standard game. What else does this mean? It means I'm hitting the gym tomorrow, not the club.

Just my newbie to the forum 2 cents.

good analysis