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Toxic shame handling
#26

Toxic shame handling

Quote: (09-12-2015 01:39 PM)TomArrow Wrote:  

Damn, Lizard. Thanks a hell for taking the time and writing this down for me. I appreciate it.

Of course -- no thanks needed, really. That's what this forum is for.

Quote: (09-12-2015 01:39 PM)TomArrow Wrote:  

I am not sure whether to believe that. My life experience hints at a combination of both. One thing that often and even now helped me, for instance, is confronting people from my past. To demistify them. But it is something to be done in the present, very indeed.

Then again, somehow I ended up asking for advice here. I will take a deep look at the thread you suggested.

Please do -- take the REBT ideas, and as importantly, methods seriously and give them some time. They can be counterintuitive, not because they are hard to understand but precisely because they can seem too simple and superficial; we are always inclined to believe that the most important things must be deeply hidden and need to be uncovered, but in truth they are just staring us in the face, hidden in plain sight.

And please reflect, over time, on what I said about letting go of self-absorption, and allowing yourself to look outward rather than inward. If I had to pick one key to a happy and interesting life, that would be it.

same old shit, sixes and sevens Shaft...
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#27

Toxic shame handling

Quote: (09-12-2015 02:01 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

Quote: (09-12-2015 01:39 PM)TomArrow Wrote:  

Damn, Lizard. Thanks a hell for taking the time and writing this down for me. I appreciate it.

Of course -- no thanks needed, really. That's what this forum is for.

I need to say thanks, because I never opened up about these kind of things to anyone. If you knew how grateful I am for not being chased away with burning pitchforks ...

Will definitely have a look at it.

Book discussion platform: Alpha Book Club
Blog: Man Without Father
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#28

Toxic shame handling

This is gonna sound corny but I think what you really need is to learn how to love yourself first, obviously much easier said than done. I wish I knew a way to explain how to go from self-loathing to self-love in easily laid out steps but its a hard thing to explain. I used to have the same toxic thoughts that you do, that I wasn't worthy. I've now come through that and really the best advice I can give is that you've gotta put in the work, both to improve yourself and more importantly to start believing in yourself.

I've heard the cliche numerous times that "Everyone deserves love" and I couldn't disagree with it more. I think that you have to earn love, be worthy of it, and I think this applies to self-love as well. If some guy is a total omega who just lives in his basement playing video games and jerking off, I don't think they've earned the right to love themself. This forum is about much more than game, its about improving yourself so that you can make the life you want for yourself.

You said you haven't started learning game (you mean actively practicing I assume) and I think this is a big mistake. One of the darker periods of my life occurred after I became red pill aware but before I actually started actively working on my game. It was a period of like 8 months, I could much more clearly see the world for what it was but I had no belief in myself that I could navigate it and get what I wanted from it. After seeing that there were guys on here who had managed to climb out of a hole that was deeper than the one I was in, I knew that if I didn't at least start to try I was gonna hate myself for the rest of my life. Don't let that happen to yourself! Start trying to actively make change. I'm only a couple years into this journey myself but for me the hardest part so far has been getting started, its also been the most rewarding thing I've ever done.

Belief in yourself, aka confidence, is simply about knowing that you can accomplish something. I suppose there might be some people out there who can think their way into this mindset but I think its very rare. The best way to build confidence in your ability to do something is by practicing it. I think pretty much everyone here would agree that the most important part of game is Inner Game (confidence and belief in yourself) but getting to that point is difficult. Its why so much of what is preached here is about external stuff; lifting, dressing well, etc. The confidence you gain from being better looking and such is very secondary to the confidence you gain from knowing you can set yourself a task and that you can go out and accomplish it.

If you can do it in one area (lifting or something else) it'll give you the confidence to at least try to do it with game. And once you get started and begin to see little successes (which I guarantee will happen if you practice and reflect) things will begin to snowball and you'll begin to be a new man. When I look back at the scared little boy I was a couple years ago, it makes me shudder. I also look back with a tinge of pride now though, yeah I used to be a cowardly little shit but I still had the balls to try and change things, which is more than most people can say.

Just make sure you don't avoid game by telling yourself you need to improve other areas first, they should be worked on in conjunction.

Anyway, good luck OP. I think if you're smart enough to have found this place, you're also smart enough to get your life together. You just gotta get started, its on you now

"The price of being a man is eternal vigilance." - Kareem-Abdul Jabar
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#29

Toxic shame handling

Tom,

There's been given some solid advice given in this thread. Honestly, we've all been there and pushed ourselves to our current places because of that immense shame. It sucks.

There's no need for a coach or shrink. Take some time alone, focus on the core essentials (money for basic needs and mental time) consume the many resources that have been given to you in this thread.

Join a gym and eat well. It really contributes 99% to your well being. It'll be easier to tell the ones who pain you to STFU when you yourself are feeling 100%. They're all crabs in a bucket. You're going to break free.

Finally, consider setting yourself up a trajectory to at least travel to see the world. Being stuck in one place mires your mind into plastic thinking. Moving in some direction gives you purpose. Find it.
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#30

Toxic shame handling

Quote: (09-12-2015 02:13 PM)QuietDog Wrote:  

This is gonna sound corny but I think what you really need is to learn how to love yourself first, obviously much easier said than done. I wish I knew a way to explain how to go from self-loathing to self-love in easily laid out steps but its a hard thing to explain. I used to have the same toxic thoughts that you do, that I wasn't worthy. I've now come through that and really the best advice I can give is that you've gotta put in the work, both to improve yourself and more importantly to start believing in yourself.

I've heard the cliche numerous times that "Everyone deserves love" and I couldn't disagree with it more. I think that you have to earn love, be worthy of it, and I think this applies to self-love as well. If some guy is a total omega who just lives in his basement playing video games and jerking off, I don't think they've earned the right to love themself. This forum is about much more than game, its about improving yourself so that you can make the life you want for yourself.

You said you haven't started learning game (you mean actively practicing I assume) and I think this is a big mistake. One of the darker periods of my life occurred after I became red pill aware but before I actually started actively working on my game. It was a period of like 8 months, I could much more clearly see the world for what it was but I had no belief in myself that I could navigate it and get what I wanted from it. After seeing that there were guys on here who had managed to climb out of a hole that was deeper than the one I was in, I knew that if I didn't at least start to try I was gonna hate myself for the rest of my life. Don't let that happen to yourself! Start trying to actively make change. I'm only a couple years into this journey myself but for me the hardest part so far has been getting started, its also been the most rewarding thing I've ever done.

Belief in yourself, aka confidence, is simply about knowing that you can accomplish something. I suppose there might be some people out there who can think their way into this mindset but I think its very rare. The best way to build confidence in your ability to do something is by practicing it. I think pretty much everyone here would agree that the most important part of game is Inner Game (confidence and belief in yourself) but getting to that point is difficult. Its why so much of what is preached here is about external stuff; lifting, dressing well, etc. The confidence you gain from being better looking and such is very secondary to the confidence you gain from knowing you can set yourself a task and that you can go out and accomplish it.

If you can do it in one area (lifting or something else) it'll give you the confidence to at least try to do it with game. And once you get started and begin to see little successes (which I guarantee will happen if you practice and reflect) things will begin to snowball and you'll begin to be a new man. When I look back at the scared little boy I was a couple years ago, it makes me shudder. I also look back with a tinge of pride now though, yeah I used to be a cowardly little shit but I still had the balls to try and change things, which is more than most people can say.

Just make sure you don't avoid game by telling yourself you need to improve other areas first, they should be worked on in conjunction.

Anyway, good luck OP. I think if you're smart enough to have found this place, you're also smart enough to get your life together. You just gotta get started, its on you now

Thanks for the advice. I do not fully agree about what you say of self-love, but yes, it is truly hard to feel a sense of integrity when not doing what you wish you would be doing. There was a time when I went out to talk to girls for about a week last year and I seldom felt so fulfilled in my life. Unfortunately, there is something in my head still keeping me from doing it, which also stopped me last time. I think it is some sense of guilt towards my mother. I think I need to let her know who I really am and finally let her go as the one woman in my life.

Book discussion platform: Alpha Book Club
Blog: Man Without Father
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#31

Toxic shame handling

Quote: (09-12-2015 06:30 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Tom,

There's been given some solid advice given in this thread. Honestly, we've all been there and pushed ourselves to our current places because of that immense shame. It sucks.

There's no need for a coach or shrink. Take some time alone, focus on the core essentials (money for basic needs and mental time) consume the many resources that have been given to you in this thread.

Join a gym and eat well. It really contributes 99% to your well being. It'll be easier to tell the ones who pain you to STFU when you yourself are feeling 100%. They're all crabs in a bucket. You're going to break free.

Finally, consider setting yourself up a trajectory to at least travel to see the world. Being stuck in one place mires your mind into plastic thinking. Moving in some direction gives you purpose. Find it.

Indeed, thank you all. I will let your advice go through my head and hope to reach a conclusion. I really think you are right about going to the gym and, as QuietDog said, practicing game. I wish I could simply say I will follow that advice right now, but then I secretly always knew that that is what I had to do. I will figure out what is stopping me and go for it.

Book discussion platform: Alpha Book Club
Blog: Man Without Father
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#32

Toxic shame handling

Quote: (09-13-2015 05:21 AM)TomArrow Wrote:  

Quote: (09-12-2015 06:30 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Tom,

There's been given some solid advice given in this thread. Honestly, we've all been there and pushed ourselves to our current places because of that immense shame. It sucks.

There's no need for a coach or shrink. Take some time alone, focus on the core essentials (money for basic needs and mental time) consume the many resources that have been given to you in this thread.

Join a gym and eat well. It really contributes 99% to your well being. It'll be easier to tell the ones who pain you to STFU when you yourself are feeling 100%. They're all crabs in a bucket. You're going to break free.

Finally, consider setting yourself up a trajectory to at least travel to see the world. Being stuck in one place mires your mind into plastic thinking. Moving in some direction gives you purpose. Find it.

Indeed, thank you all. I will let your advice go through my head and hope to reach a conclusion. I really think you are right about going to the gym and, as QuietDog said, practicing game. I wish I could simply say I will follow that advice right now, but then I secretly always knew that that is what I had to do. I will figure out what is stopping me and go for it.

Trust me bud, I spent the entirety of my life from birth to 22 spinning my gears thinking I knew "hacks" to avoid doing hard work. Deep down I knew there's only one way to get what I want and it requires that hard work.

You know what you need to do. Start doing it.
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#33

Toxic shame handling

Quote: (09-13-2015 11:13 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Quote: (09-13-2015 05:21 AM)TomArrow Wrote:  

Quote: (09-12-2015 06:30 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Tom,

There's been given some solid advice given in this thread. Honestly, we've all been there and pushed ourselves to our current places because of that immense shame. It sucks.

There's no need for a coach or shrink. Take some time alone, focus on the core essentials (money for basic needs and mental time) consume the many resources that have been given to you in this thread.

Join a gym and eat well. It really contributes 99% to your well being. It'll be easier to tell the ones who pain you to STFU when you yourself are feeling 100%. They're all crabs in a bucket. You're going to break free.

Finally, consider setting yourself up a trajectory to at least travel to see the world. Being stuck in one place mires your mind into plastic thinking. Moving in some direction gives you purpose. Find it.

Indeed, thank you all. I will let your advice go through my head and hope to reach a conclusion. I really think you are right about going to the gym and, as QuietDog said, practicing game. I wish I could simply say I will follow that advice right now, but then I secretly always knew that that is what I had to do. I will figure out what is stopping me and go for it.

Trust me bud, I spent the entirety of my life from birth to 22 spinning my gears thinking I knew "hacks" to avoid doing hard work. Deep down I knew there's only one way to get what I want and it requires that hard work.

You know what you need to do. Start doing it.

Well, yes and no. There was some trigger that got you to discard searching for hacks, no? What was it and how did you find it?

I have been eating somewhat healthy lately. I had been pushing myself to go the martial arts training 3 times a week for 6 months before I injured my arm. I lacked the energy to do anything else, though. My thoughts and emotions kept eating that up. I will start doing sports as soon as my arm is healed, anyway. As for what my initial question was, the best advice I believe to be the Rational Thinking book.

Book discussion platform: Alpha Book Club
Blog: Man Without Father
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#34

Toxic shame handling

Quote: (09-11-2015 10:04 PM)offthereservation Wrote:  

gettinbetter.com

read that and save your money

Hey man. I came over that website from another source again. I remembered your tip and began to read.

It is fucking gold. Hell of a smart bitch.

Thanks.

Book discussion platform: Alpha Book Club
Blog: Man Without Father
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#35

Toxic shame handling

Do not spend lots of your money on getting advice from ONE person. I think that whole business is a scam based on how mentally weak people love having someone to tell their problems to, while they get paid shitloads for listening to it, only to tell them to come back next week so they can find out more and 'get to the root of the problem'.

Read as many books as you can, websites and forums are ok, but I think they are better used when you have built up enough knowledge in areas you are trying to improve in.

Read about game, fitness, nutrition, business, philosophy and anything else you are interested in improving. There are many great book lists and recommendations around, I think Roosh has one somewhere with lots of good books on it.

I read over 50 books in a year and a half, as well as a lot of stuff online when first getting into self improvement. I did not realise how much I had read until afterwards, recently I spent more time reading the forum and I don't think I've read one book this year.

Some people say you have to read a book several times to get everything from it, and if you're just constantly reading books like I was not all of it will sink in. This is true.

However a lot of stuff did sink in, especially the stuff that's reinforced in other books. Why read a book again when you can just read another book on the same subject, it will just reinforce the knowledge that is common to both books. I do go back again and read the books I really liked from time to time.

The same thing happens reading loads of blogs, if I find a blog I like, I normally read every single article and move on. Eventually I've gotten tired of reading blogs so much because now its rare that I read something with actual new information to me.

Also its good to remember, school does not prepare for you life, especially relationships with other people.

You parent's probably didn't either, and they probably don't know themselves either, its not their fault.

It is fully up to YOU to educate yourself, and that education is only just beginning.

"Especially Roosh offers really good perspectives. But like MW said, at the end of the day, is he one of us?"

- Reciproke, posted on the Roosh V Forum.
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#36

Toxic shame handling

Quote: (10-08-2015 01:37 PM)RedPillUK Wrote:  

Some people say you have to read a book several times to get everything from it, and if you're just constantly reading books like I was not all of it will sink in. This is true.
Damn, that is true. I read 'No More Mr. Nice Guy' one time and suddenly started to have all those good ideas. Then I looked into it again and realized that all those ideas I thought I had come up with myself were really just subconscious memories of my reading. Fascinating how this stuff sinks in.

Quote: (10-08-2015 01:37 PM)RedPillUK Wrote:  

Also its good to remember, school does not prepare for you life, especially relationships with other people.

You parent's probably didn't either, and they probably don't know themselves either, its not their fault.

It is fully up to YOU to educate yourself, and that education is only just beginning.

Indeed. My mother was mad. My father was not there. School just taught me to repeat words I did not understand.

I will manage.

Book discussion platform: Alpha Book Club
Blog: Man Without Father
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#37

Toxic shame handling

Quote: (09-12-2015 01:42 PM)TomArrow Wrote:  

Quote: (09-12-2015 01:27 PM)Tytalus Wrote:  

I would recommend getting a life coach if you can afford it. They can be far more helpful than a therapist as they actively try to help you improve your life in practical, positive ways rather than "digging deep" into your self.

Did you do that? How did it affect your life? How do I identify a good life coach for myself?

I was a client of Athol Kay @ http://www.atholkay.com - a red pill life/marriage coach. My needs were very different from what yours are, (one of the minority of married guys on this forum) so I'm not sure he is the guy for you.

What a good life coach does is help you identify:
1.) What your goals/wants are
2.) What your obstacles are
3.) How you can navigate those obstacles to get what you want.

A good coach will listen to you - but they're not going to "dig deep" and get you to express your feelings to find out that daddy didn't love you enough or some of that kind of crap.
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#38

Toxic shame handling

Quote: (10-09-2015 12:37 AM)Tytalus Wrote:  

Quote: (09-12-2015 01:42 PM)TomArrow Wrote:  

Quote: (09-12-2015 01:27 PM)Tytalus Wrote:  

I would recommend getting a life coach if you can afford it. They can be far more helpful than a therapist as they actively try to help you improve your life in practical, positive ways rather than "digging deep" into your self.

Did you do that? How did it affect your life? How do I identify a good life coach for myself?

I was a client of Athol Kay @ http://www.atholkay.com - a red pill life/marriage coach. My needs were very different from what yours are, (one of the minority of married guys on this forum) so I'm not sure he is the guy for you.

What a good life coach does is help you identify:
1.) What your goals/wants are
2.) What your obstacles are
3.) How you can navigate those obstacles to get what you want.

A good coach will listen to you - but they're not going to "dig deep" and get you to express your feelings to find out that daddy didn't love you enough or some of that kind of crap.

I see. Unfortunately, that is the kind of crap that I need. So this is not the right thing for me right now.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that I do not even care about girls all that much if I can not find a way to live with myself.

It sounds like a good thing for actually reaching goals, though.

Book discussion platform: Alpha Book Club
Blog: Man Without Father
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#39

Toxic shame handling

Since it was not mentioned here.. Do a Meditation Program (Vipassana is free worldwide).. A lot of the "family related" hurt creates lots of poison inside.. Meditation is one way to let it "release" from your system..

The point of modern propaganda isn't only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.
- Garry Kasparov | ‏@Kasparov63
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#40

Toxic shame handling

Focusing on self-help can be a trap too because it holds this carrot out and you have to achieve this and that life goal before you can feel worthy of good self-esteem.

The fact of the matter is few if any of us can reach perfect 10 alpha-male status no matter how hard we try. That's not to say men should not seek self-improvement, but as they say, life is what happens when you're busy making other plans. The self-help thing can therefore replace fixating on the past with fixating on the future while you still feel unworthy in the present.

I know the term "special snowflake" is a trigger-warning for red-pillers, but you've got to learn to hang your hat on some unique gift that you have today. Lead your introductions with people by emphasizing it and downplaying what you're lacking.

The other thing is, you have to sell your wares to the right market. If your target demo just wants a sixpack and a bank account and all you have to bring to the table is the fact you speak french poetry ala Groundhog day, then find women who will appreciate that.
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#41

Toxic shame handling

My best and honest advice is to practice mindfulness meditation, and treat every word, even every word that enters your mind like a 'precious possession' not to be used lightly.

There's actually some psychology worth studying here which is a bit deep, but most negative feelings come from reasoning or repeating words in our minds, and gives us a false picture of reality; reason if overused actually blinds us, when we shut it off and keep the words in moderation, then shame and bad memories or fears decrease significantly, and we become more in touch with our intuitive sense of logic, and are able to act and react more naturally and instinctively without having to 'actively' think about it.

This i believe is one of the main problems people with Asperger's syndrome have with interaction and women; they over-use their rational thought to an extreme, and the result is it represses their innate instincts and sense of logic, and causes them to act and interact more like a robot, which usually comes across as akward and boring.

Reasoning is useful for problem solving (e.x. repairing a computer or a car), but it's actually less effective in social interactions than our natural instinct and intuitive logic; I believe reasoning primarily evolved simply for survivalistic skills (e.x. hunting or warfare in apes), rather than for friendly interactions.
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