[thebassist]

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The people here are unusually nice in some ways and total assholes in other ways. I'm experience major cognitive dissonance because I feel like there is a real tradition of generosity and friendliness that's disarming but on the other hand a huge portion of the population act like debased animals: they spit everywhere, shit everywhere, smoke everywhere

The majority of this is due to Chinese culture: the spitting, burping, and farting (even some of my friends' drivers would do this right in front of them), where the maxim seems to be 'better out than in'. If it annoys you then I really can't say much man- it's pretty deeply engrained and not likely to change anytime soon, ultimately you have to choose how to react to the things you cannot change!

Keep in mind that the cities are also full of people fresh from the countryside- the reason that some of these Chinese cities have been growing so quickly is due to the massive influx of people coming from the countryside to the city in search of opportunities for work. These are generally the 'worst' when it comes to having manners according to our western sensibilities.

Quote:

and generally don't give a fuck about anything or anyone but themselves. There is a real sense of greed and gluttony here that I have never seen before. People will fuck you over for the smallest shit. It's so shortsighted.

I'm having a really hard time reconciling this behavior with how generous the people can be at the same time. I generally chalk it up to people being people but somedays I'm like "fuck all these guys."

I remember a conversation I had with my barber a couple years ago now. He was lamenting the change that city life in China caused to people's mentalities. In the countryside, if you find yourself in trouble, even the poorest of people will be more than willing to do what they can to help you (he was telling me). It is easy to imagine how quickly this mindset is changed when people move away from community-based agricultural societies to cities where literally everyone's goal is to get ahead, and earn money for their families (and fuck everyone else!). I'm afraid that it is the city mindset is the cause of your confusion and anger concerning people wanting to fuck you over for the smallest of gains.

This is what you're going to have to accept (the only solution to situations you cannot change) when living in China long-term. The feeling that I remember clearly from my time in China, in contrast to living in the boring Netherlands, is the overwhelming feeling of being ALIVE. The sheer sensory input from daily life in China, be it dodging taxis while crossing the road, watching people spit on the street, engaging in a delicate shift of body positioning to stop someone from cutting in line in front of you, really made every day seem like an adventure.

I hope you learn to enjoy China for what it is (and what it is not), at the very least to make your year-long stay enjoyable. In any case, I'm sure it's a hell of a lot more interesting than being back at home!

[Fortis]

(08-29-2015 01:15 AM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

I guess you must not like Asian girls that much. Otherwise, I can't imagine being exasperated with life in China to the extent that you're indicating. I lived in Shanghai for almost a year straight out of college and this is basically how my mindset was the entire time:

(substitute Azns for drugs)

Nah, but in all seriousness, living in China is pretty pointless unless you have a strong thirst for the women. I'm sure this goes double in a city like Shenzhen where there are fewer opportunities to be engaged in various activities than in more international cities like Shanghai or Beijing.

With that said, if you do like the girls (and they don't hate your guts), living in China is a fucking blast. Sure, they certainly do things differently over there and some of those things are frustrating. It gets old when people barge in front of you in line or taxis pass you by to pick up the Chinese guy a block down the street. But it's just the price of doing business.

Realize this: at the end of the day, you're waiting 10 extra minutes for a taxi, but you're also banging multiple young cuties in a country with a terrible gender ratio where dudes are killing themselves to own a house just to get laid, and making 5-10 times the money that a Chinese college grad makes just for blabbing around in you native tongue. And this is as someone on the very bottomM of the expat pyramid, the despised English teacher. If you can climb past that level and become a reputable professional at a brand-name corporation, it's a whole 'nother life.

Anyway, enough with the abstract bullshit. I think what you need to do is make some solid friends with people in your own age group and who have similar goals. You're not going to be happy rolling solo in Shenzhen, nor with wasting your time with 35 year old, beta English teacher lifers. It's absolutely key to find at least 1 dude that you can connect with and have a blast just shooting the shit over beers, even better if he's a poon hound like ourselves.

My first 2 or 3 months in China were more or less miserable (on a personal level, not because of frustration with the country) because I had no one to hang with. Once I fortuitously met some guys who were cool, it was like night and day. Now that I'm about to make a return to Shanghai in a matter of a couple weeks, I know my first priority will be finding an apartment with roommates who I think I can hit it off with as a first step, then growing my circle of friends further via signing up for sports, joining an MMA gym, etc. I would suggest you try to do the same. As long as you're generally having fun, the annoying idiosyncrasies of living in China sort of just fade into the background. They're still there of course and you have to deal with them, but they are nowhere near prominent enough to affect your general state of mind.

As I said. I'm still figuring the girls out here. Maybe my view will change once I can consistently bang chinese girls.

[worldtraveler3]

"Nah, but in all seriousness, living in China is pretty pointless unless you have a strong thirst for the women. "

Why is this the case?

[Fortis]

Eddie did you find a job in Shanghai?

Yeah, I'm going to cocopark tonight to meet up with an Rvf guy who lives in Guangzhou. I have work mid morning but I'm looking forward to hanging out with someone from the Rvf for a change. Too few of us in my area.

Admittedly I was being a little melodramatic but I find this country rather frustrating at the moment. I'm feeling far better today than I was yesterday. I almost feel normal.

[Cr33pin]

After a few months in Shenzhen I was ready for home.... Now I have been traveling to different countries for the past year and wouldn't go home if you paid me.

[vanryan]

(08-28-2015 10:26 AM)Fortis Wrote:  

Sup playas,

I'm entering my fourth month in china and I find myself constantly angry and sullen. I just feel so much antipathy for the people here--but I know I'm being irrational. I've talked with other people about this and they all tell me it's natural and that it will either pass or I'll get the fuck out of china before anything drastic happens.

How do you guys deals who have lived abroad for months on end cope with the first few months in any locale? I just find myself oscillating between anger, awe, disgust and amusement.

[Vaun]

(08-28-2015 10:26 AM)Fortis Wrote:  

Sup playas,

I'm entering my fourth month in china and I find myself constantly angry and sullen. I just feel so much antipathy for the people here--but I know I'm being irrational. I've talked with other people about this and they all tell me it's natural and that it will either pass or I'll get the fuck out of china before anything drastic happens.

How do you guys deals who have lived abroad for months on end cope with the first few months in any locale? I just find myself oscillating between anger, awe, disgust and amusement.

Hang in there dude. Hit anyone up with a PM and to say whats up if you need to chat.

Just a question; have you considered that being in China specifically, is making you feel this way? Personally I don't think I would do well in that culture for so long.

[LeightonBlackstock]

Fast Eddie's post was great. I whole-heartedly agree, DO NOT hang out with the 'typical' English teacher. All they bring to the table is negativity and ugly women.

I can empathise, I spent time in a small city in Korea and it wasn't the life I have now. (Though I still found shit and have great memories).

Remember, many people in the West spend hours playing GTA to simulate a life you pretty-much have at your finger-tips in Asia.

It's a Saturday night. Go out with an open mind. You'll find something.

Whether you pull a leggy Chinese girl or end up in a Karoake bar with a bunch of old dudes at 5am. That sounds like fun stuff to me.

Hell, even last night:

I went out with Kangaroo. The night ended with my girl in tears about her wanting a baby in the next two years with a blonde haired, big-nosed farang (I'll wrap up hard).

Kangaroo got bored after fucking his girl and wanted to get another one from a late club. Beyond Borders' mate glassed someone. And dreambig was feared dead haha.

[Beyond Borders]

(08-28-2015 10:26 AM)Fortis Wrote:  

Sup playas,

I'm entering my fourth month in china and I find myself constantly angry and sullen. I just feel so much antipathy for the people here--but I know I'm being irrational. I've talked with other people about this and they all tell me it's natural and that it will either pass or I'll get the fuck out of china before anything drastic happens.

How do you guys deals who have lived abroad for months on end cope with the first few months in any locale? I just find myself oscillating between anger, awe, disgust and amusement.

Read Albert Ellis.

If there's anything that brings the real world sense in his ideas to life, in my personal opinion, it's world travel and cultural infiltration. Because it constantly challenges all the things that you for some reason think "should" be.

This is one of the reasons many people like to say that travel is really more about personal growth than pretty sights and nice hotel rooms.

Too many travelers, including many of the more seasoned ones on this forum and many of the great guys I've met from here (hell, I've been plenty guilty myself), see their frustrations abroad as a problem outside of themselves (the people are so fucking "insert various unflattering adjectives here") instead of an inner problem (how ridiculous can I be to go to a completely alien culture and think the people there are flawed for not having the same language, values, habits, interests, behaviors, and paradigms that I do?).

Even when we don't verbalize these ideas, they are often going on inside our heads. And these constant judgements about the things locals in foreign places say and do becomes a huge barrier between travelers or expats and the communities/individuals around them.

It's natural for you to get stuck in these thoughts, so no need to beat up on yourself, but the first step in moving past it is realizing the problem is not the location but that the problem is YOU. And your constant expectation for people and places to be anything but exactly what they already are. Seeing as how you called it irrational, I can see you are at least on the right track in that regard.

These ocaissional bouts of cultural shock are something every one of us goes through. But you might reframe it as a growing pain and accept that it's a reminder that you still have some letting go to do, should you even see letting go as the path you want to take in life (it may not be for everyone).

Ellis didn't write much about travel, as far as I know, but spend some real time with the concepts he teaches and consider how they might apply to your preceptions abroad. Not only will this ease your frustrations and lower your stress but I think it really might begin to bring into your awareness how floating in and out of other cultures can expand the possiblities in life at every possible level.

It's wild how infinite and varied the world is. It truly blows my mind again and again and again. And yet still we cling to the paradigms formed in the first ten or so years of our life and see our own background as some steady rock of absolute truth.

Take on the challenge of getting past that and unchaining yourself from how you've decided people should think and act, and you've got a lifetime of excitement and wonder ahead of you. Yes, there are growing pains, but once you get past them, life never has to be boring or dull or unexciting ever again. The planet is big enough that you don't have enough years in your life to run out of things to marvel at - the constant novelty even stretches your sense of time, in a way prolonging your life.

And all you have to do to keep it all within your grasp without being miserable is learn to throw away, or at least set down for periods of time, the mental measuring stick.

[Global Entry]

^^ This post is genius. All travelers should take BB"s advice on this to heart.

[tomtud]

I lived in the Gulf (Qatar) for 2 years. I also was an unhappy fella at times when I first got there.
It took time for me to find my way if you will.... I started taking private Spanish classes which turned out to introduce me to a new group of people.
I also found coffee shops that have free wifi and I spend my time reading on my iPad and drinking coffee. There are other people there, so I struck up some conversations with them and befriended them.

Others joined sports teams and other sort of activities.

Go to the expatexchange forum. I am sure you can find answers to some of your concerns if you don't fined them here.

[LeeEnfield303]

Being a history nut, if it were me, I'd use the "hobby" time to study Chinese history and visit historical spots. There's hardly another country on earth with such a rich and varied history, both military and otherwise.

[Fortis]

Thanks for the support guys. Im feeling much better. I had a bunch of drinks with arado and cold approached a ton of girls. He is a good guy living the international lifestyle. I had a great time telling chicks I was Kobe Bryant's brother. Lol

We actually have a funny story about another expat we bumped into. I'll post it in another thread Ha.

As I said, my experience with the women here has been atypical as fuck but I've been doing online game exclusively. Couldn't get anything to happen last night but I managed to get a few numbers and relax a bit with my rage, so I will call it a successful night.

Thanks for that advice bb. I have an early day tonight so I will read some of this guys's stuff and keep in mind that I'm a guest here.

Will look into the expat exchange forum too.

Aside from the occasional drink, I don't hang with the English teacher crowd. I have too little in common with them. And don't wanna do this for the rest of my life. There is no actual future in tesol besides managing a center and having your own goons. Not exactly a stellar path in my view.

[Fast Eddie]

(08-29-2015 03:38 AM)worldtraveler3 Wrote:  

"Nah, but in all seriousness, living in China is pretty pointless unless you have a strong thirst for the women. "

Why is this the case?

The place is crowded, polluted, and dirty. You can't trust the food you buy or the water you drink, unless you are willing to pay through the gills. The language is the world's biggest bitch and cockblocks you from fully immersing yourself in either the society or the business scene. It's an ancient culture and blah blah blah, but you don't get that feeling of antiquity the way you do in say Italy or France. It's no cheaper to live in China than it is to live in the West, but you do not get a Western quality of life for your buck from a simple amenities standpoint. Shit like a having your own car that any fast food worker in the USA can afford would require you to level-up several times from a base of being an English teacher.

Furthermore, while business opportunities definitely abound, you'll have a hard time finding yourself in a position to take advantage. This is due to several factors, not least of which are the language, government attitudes towards foreigners, and existence of 1.5 billion Chinese, all of whom are working hard to swindle whatever swindling there is to be done. So in my opinion, unless you've really got a thing for East Asian women and find them significantly more appealing than SEA, white, or Latina women, you'll probably enjoy your time more in SEA, Europe, or Latin America.

But I'm not complaining. I didn't grow up in the lap of luxury so the grimy aspects of living in China don't really bother me nothin'. I also like the feeling of adventure that Leighton alluded to in an earlier post. And of course the women. The crowding isn't really that big of a deal when you'd happily bang the shit out of every second or third young female you see in that crowd .

(08-29-2015 07:49 AM)Fortis Wrote:  

Eddie did you find a job in Shanghai?

When I first went to Shanghai after college in 2013 I was easily able to find a pretty decent test-prep teaching gig. In fact I believe it was the first or at most second ad on Craigslist that I contacted. With that said, I left China in order to start working a management consulting gig in the USA so my days of being a full time teacher are definitely over. I'm returning to Shanghai with no job in hand and the plan is to spend the remainder of 2015 studying Chinese and firming up my programming skills full time. I signed up for a language program to this effect (and to get a long term visa). I've got some decent savings from doing 2 years of consulting but I'll probably supplement my income with part time teaching and online freelancing. The real job search will start in 2016.

[Edit: I should also mention in case my posts here have made it seem otherwise that I did not by any means bang to my heart's content. I think I ended up banging an average of 1 new girl a month Now, that doesn't sound terrible, but these were mostly wechat bangs with just a couple met via night game and zero from day game. I will definitely need to improve that shit this time around.]

[HOD]

Focus on making money, money can't buy happiness, but it can keep you busy, focus, driven, and money does solve alot of problems and enhance oppurtunities

[Fortis]

That's true. I find the Women attractive and I like cities with millions of people roaming around. Crowding means very little to me.

The language isn't something I find that hard. I was a musician for 7+ years so I think the tones and pronunciation are easy. BUT I must find consistent time to study.

[Patriarch]

(08-29-2015 02:03 PM)LeeEnfield303 Wrote:  

Being a history nut, if it were me, I'd use the "hobby" time to study Chinese history and visit historical spots. There's hardly another country on earth with such a rich and varied history, both military and otherwise.

Too bad Mao demolished half of it.

[Beyond Borders]

^ Half of a damn lot is still quite a bit!

[Patriarch]

(08-30-2015 09:07 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

^ Half of a damn lot is still quite a bit!

You're right, but even if he buried 1% of Chinese history and culture, that's too much.

[NovaVirtu]

@ OP

Focus on the positives your location has to offer and find a way to just disregard or see the humor in the negatives. Easier said than done, for sure, but it is necessary.

I experienced a little bit of this in South America. I had never been before and without realizing it, I had taken a lot of my expectations and biases with me from America.

If you come from a hyper-sanitized, task-oriented, "get shit done" first-world country, it can be very frustrating to suddenly find yourself in a culture where those qualities simply are not considered important.

I caused myself an enormous amount of stress because I expected things to "just work" the way they do at home. I remember visiting restrooms in little restaurants and seeing toilets with missing seats, no paper, etc. One time in an internet cafe I opened the bathroom to discover it doubled as a janitor's closet and had trash, dirty mops and tools dumped all over the place which I had to move in order to use the toilet.

I remember thinking "What the fuck is wrong with these people? Why do these things not register in anyone's mind as a problem that needs to be solved?"

But that's just the way things are there. The culture is different. The mindset is different. What phases them is not what phases you.

China obviously is different from SA, and but the same principle applies.

The suggestion about making friends with other expats is huge. My experience could have been totally different if I hadn't connected with some forum guys and other expats. Do this and start working out and I think you'll see the pros outweigh the cons.

Besides, you're there for a year, right? It's not like you're staying there forever.

Enjoy the ride.

[Beyond Borders]

(08-30-2015 11:05 AM)Sweet Pea Wrote:  

(08-30-2015 09:07 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

^ Half of a damn lot is still quite a bit!

You're right, but even if he buried 1% of Chinese history and culture, that's too much.

Yes, of course you're correct about that.

But we weren't discussing the extremely unfortunate destruction of China's historical legacy. We were discussing ways to enjoy the country, and in the context of the conversation, such a terse reply highlighting the negative when a poster points out the opportunities to be found visiting the cultural riches that still exist is a bit glass half-empty, no?

Maybe you were just making a factual observation; if so, I read it wrong.

[Fortis]

I'm spending my free time exercising and learning chinese. I'm sure chinese history is very interesting but I simply don't hsvr time for it. When it comes to reading I'm into autobiographies, psychology and philosophy.

Just finished gorilla mindset and I'm working my way through "man's search for meaning."

[WalterBlack]

(08-28-2015 10:31 PM)Fortis Wrote:  

The people here are unusually nice in some ways and total assholes in other ways. I'm experience major cognitive dissonance because I feel like there is a real tradition of generosity and friendliness that's disarming but on the other hand a huge portion of the population act like debased animals: they spit everywhere, shit everywhere, smoke everywhere and generally don't give a fuck about anything or anyone but themselves. There is a real sense of greed and gluttony here that I have never seen before. People will fuck you over for the smallest shit. It's so shortsighted.

I'm having a really hard time reconciling this behavior with how generous the people can be at the same time. I generally chalk it up to people being people but somedays I'm like "fuck all these guys."

In most Asian cultures the strongest bond is family, and they are not high trust based cultures. As a result of this people do everything for friends and family and do not give a fuck about strangers. As for fucking people over, some people think that’s part of life, and they think that it’s better that they fuck somebody over first before the other person does it to them.

In my experience Chinese people can be cold if they don’t know you but once you establish a friendship with them they are some of the nicest people around.

I joke with my Chinese friends that Indians and Chinese follow the same religion – they both worship money. I'm totally unphased by the behavior of Chinese people because many Indians act in a similar way.
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Being in a big city changes a person. This is how I changed:

• A few weeks after moving to London, I hear on the London Underground PA system that the train has been delayed because somebody jumped in front of train. My first thought "Oh shit, somebody killed themselves, that's really sad"
• A few years after moving to London, I hear on the London Underground PA system that the train has been delayed because somebody jumped in front of train. My first thought is "Couldn't that fucker jumped some other time?!"
  

Imagine the London shit times 50 and that's city life in most Asian countries. People simply don't care or have the time to think about other people. They also have to be aggressive to get anything done. If you try to be a peaceful quiet person people will shit all over you. Life is a lot slower in villages and people are more chilled. My relatives in India are from the villages and they feel that city people cannot be trusted.
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Sometimes you have to be an arsehole to get shit done. Here's an example in my home town in UK (which has a populations of 150K), if I'm an a side road and I want to turn onto a busy main road, if the traffic on the main road is slow, a driver will occasionally slow down and let me on to the main road. If I try the same maneuver in London nobody will ever let me onto the main road. I have to wait until it slows down and “push” onto the main road.
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The way I approach foreign travel is “what do I REALLY need”, just to get by. It comes down to a clean and safe place to stay, a working toilet and shower, and access to safe food, and in the last few years internet access. I look upon anything above that as a bonus and this stops me going crazy.

[Fortis]

I decided to just let it go. I'm not really stressing it all at this point. I have accepted that I'm not at home and will conduct myself as such.

[Fortis]

Between this post and the original post I made some cool shit happen. I have my first string of private students (3) and I have an idea for a business I can run here. I am not exactly happy here but I have recognized that there is money to be made here, food is cheap and this is a cool hub to use to explore asia.