[Dalaran1991]

The problem about telling newbies "next" is that, it's similar to a billionaire telling a young first time start up to next the first client who gives him troubles, because there's so many damn clients out there. He then ends up learning nothing about business, client relation and customer service.

I can only imagine the frustration of newbies, when they come up here and try to work out a situation, then get an immediate cliché answer that has very little to do with game itself.

Abundance is a mindset, a very useful one at that, but it's not game itself.

How do I get that hot girl's attention who wont talk to me? Next
My plate has gone cold, what to? Next
My LTR is being uncompliant. Next

Tell me what game lessons you learn from doing the above. That there's plenty of women around who will fall for you? That's a reality that will not be true for the vast majority of men. Not to mention that most girls who can be nexted easily are rarely 7 or above. Fine if you are a dumpster driver.

You learn game by doing hundreds and hundreds of approaches, and carrying out/following each approach as far as it can go. You dont tuck tail and bail the first moment things go south. Abundance mentality means "you will be fine if you lose this girl", not "at the first sight of trouble, GTFO" that so many people here are preaching.

Go see the high quality couples who are truly successful and happy, see if they bail on each other at first sight of trouble. Those people stick with each other through high and low, thick and thin and grow a bond together. If you say couples like that dont exist, get out more, listen more and next less.

But I do digest that most Western girls you approach or meet in bars, are more trouble than they are worth, so next is prolly the most time-saving option (not the best though)

[MVPnis]

There are red flags and there are concerns. Concerns you can live with. Red flags you cannot. And they wont go away. Why torture yourself? Your initution is telling you isnt worth it. Trust yourself and be aware there is something better for you. The minute a reg flag reveals itself..gtfo .

Or just bang for awhile, have fun. Don't get in a relationship.

[polymath]

The "next" mentality is similar to the numbers game mentality.

I tend to pick a girl that I like, in a foreign country, and do what I can to get her attention and make her want me. Usually this involves building myself into her social circle or getting to know her friends (sometimes intimately). In general I find that the social challenge is enjoyable for me, and adds to the fun of getting a girl into my bedroom.

I've never been big on sex without some kind of interpersonal bond. This makes me feel a little out of place when people say "NEXT" because I'm like, damn, I actually like this girl a lot, why should I next her? At the same time, you have to be willing to walk away because otherwise you're just teaching the girl that she can treat you like shit and still keep your attention.

[262]

Like anything else, there's a balance between nexting too soon and not nexting soon enough.

Thinking of banging a crack whore? Can't next soon enough. But some guys will insist you should try and Game her into becoming Susie homemaker. "Think of how your Game will improve!" as your dick falls off the first time she touches it.

Wife and mother of your children refuses to wear a burka? Unless you're with the Taliban, that doesn't make her an attention whore, so nexting here would be premature - kinda like your ejaculations.

[XPQ22]

(02-02-2017 11:14 PM)Resolute Wrote:  

Cheating and not having enough intellectual curiosity are the two reasons I've broken up with LTR's in the past before.

As you get older you get less tolerant of rolling with dippy broads, not only because there's more to life than just pussy, but because older guys (like myself) have lifestyles we kind of like and want to protect (and a lot less time and opportunity to rebuild if things get messed up), and dippy broads have a tendency to perpetually screw things up, and those screwups often get sucked into your life no matter how much you work to distance yourself from it.

Even being a careless driver is a big red flag to me, these days.

Meanwhile the guy dating my girl's (somewhat hotter) roommate had to rush her to the hospital because she sliced a part of her finger off cutting an onion. "It's okay. They glued it back."

Good luck to you, sir

[XXL]

(02-02-2017 01:31 AM)the-dream Wrote:  

There have been a lot of threads of men asking advice on how to handle a certain mistake a girlfriend made or a certain flaw that she has. The general consensus of the replies always seem to be a cookie cutter response of "cut her off", "next her", "spin some more plates" or something along those lines without really attempting to address the problem at hand.

That attitude is crazy to me. I have no idea how someone can just cut off or next his woman that he has invested his time and energy in. That's pure nonsense to me. Its nothing but fear and laziness.

It's that guys' fantasy that women should try hard to please them while play the judge either approving or leaving.

(02-02-2017 01:31 AM)the-dream Wrote:  

Most of these "flaws", the man knows already coming into the relationship. A lot of these "mistakes" could be equally interpreted as a failed "shit test" on the man's behalf. As infuriating as that kind of drama and those kind of games are for most men, it's just what women do , whether that be in the USA, Thailand, or Colombia, and that's never going to change. Dumping her and moving onto the next woman, who is still a woman, won't change that and surely the same problems will crop up again however many months into the relationship and you're back to square one?

Every single woman has some "flaws" aka habits, character traits, certain attitude, outlook, standards, etc. Some of it is already there, some of it develops as a by product of their man's behavior and influence.

Those "nexters" just don't get it. They don't get female psychology, they don't get it that women adapt to their men, that women want to be defined so to speak and need to know what their men expect of them, that they need guidance from men and someone they can look up to. Basically they do not get that they as as men absolutely need to make their women THEIR women. It doesn't happen just like that, it takes work, it's a grind. But it's worth it. There's nothing better than feeling that you have your shit together, telling your girl "baby I got this" and watching her being proud of you and being happy because of you. It's priceless.

Most of you talk a lot and fantasize about them being THE MAN in relationship and having the upper hand, being alpha, yadda yadda but when shit hits the fan all you wanna do is ghost, next, ignore, leave, ie expect your women will magically submit to you and avoid putting in the real work to MAKE YOUR LTR GREAT (AGAIN). That's not how it works, sorry boys.

The way it works is that you pick a woman and take her into your world that supposed to be better for her. You make her trust you that she'll have it better with you and you take all responsibility on you for her and for her future life. She submits you on every level and is literally in your hands knowing [or believing] that you have what it takes to go through life safely. I know that already and I'm still quite young to know that.

I mean how many relationships you see that the girl really feels like she's in good hands and believes she has chosen right man? I see almost none. All I see is "student pairs" as I call them, a girlfriend has a boyfriend, they have no plan or direction whatsoever and they're just together out of comfort, to have someone to fuck, watch movies with, go shopping together but they act as if they have this special thing going on together. Yeah...

That's bullshit relationships. The only reason those last at all is mutual comfort and fear of going after something better being alone for unknown period of time. Sad but true.

[questor70]

It's not a one-size-fits all prescription. Whether you want an LTR or you're a plate spinner, it's all about whether you're happy or not. If it's no fun anymore, it's time to next.

Too many people try to hold onto relationships because of the sunk investment and they lose sight of the fact the relationship has devolved to the point of constant damage-control and walking on eggshells. It's one of those slippery slope things. You have to step back and ask yourself whether you're really happy or not--you're not happy enough. If it's become so drama filled that you need to constantly ask yourself whether it's worth continuing--odds are it isn't. It's as simple as that. Minor issues will not drive you to that sort of inner-debate. For some people, seemingly minor issues are major ones or vice-versa. People are different and they have different expectations.

[Vaun]

(02-03-2017 02:47 PM)XXL Wrote:  

Most of you talk a lot and fantasize about them being THE MAN in relationship and having the upper hand, being alpha, yadda yadda but when shit hits the fan all you wanna do is ghost, next, ignore, leave, ie expect your women will magically submit to you and avoid putting in the real work to MAKE YOUR LTR GREAT (AGAIN). That's not how it works, sorry boys.

Additional reading I think is good for this topic, basic LTR maintenance;
King,Warrior,Magician,Lover - Robert Moore
Way of the Superior Man - David Deida
The System - Doc Love(no paid endorsement)

Sticking it out is the essence of game. Though there is a line of diminishing returns, where if she is done, she is done and there is nothing you can do. But that is pretty rare.

We are all guilty of this. A cute girl I was texting, was hard to pin down for a date. She said one night "I think I can get a drink at 10:30". I said cool. 10:30 came and went. I text her at 11, "hey where are you." She says "Oh sorry! I was with my business partners at xxxxx cigar bar". I said "well then, good luck" And that was that.

I could have stuck it out. I could have said "no sweat, Im crashing, next time you're buying.." I closed the interaction for good. I 'nexted'. In hindsight, she was a solid 8 Ukrainian girl 12 yrs my junior, successful, dresses extremely well, educated in London, etc etc. More or less gf material. A rare one indeed, even where I live. I never had the chance to build any interest in her. Stupidly nexting in that case was the wrong move before I had significant time to build her attraction.

There in lies the challenge, and ultimate satisfaction in game. Overcoming obstacles, building the interest of the woman you desire, managing and overcoming the inevitable challenges that occur in every relationship. To me this work is worth it. For some men its not. Its right in saying that this is the ultimate male fantasy, to find the perfect supplicating girl/women, and ditch the ones who aren't right away. But thats not who women are, and not at all how they work.

[torridon747]

I do. But it's more complicated than "next".

Some stuff there is no coming back from. If you let a girl get away with bad behaviour a few times it's unfixable and you look weak. That's where the majority of my nexts come from. I take it personally and feel it's my fault when I fail to correct or avoid those larger mishaps

[XPQ22]

(02-03-2017 04:36 PM)Vaun Wrote:  

Sticking it out is the essence of game. Though there is a line of diminishing returns, where if she is done, she is done and there is nothing you can do. But that is pretty rare.

We are all guilty of this. A cute girl I was texting, was hard to pin down for a date. She said one night "I think I can get a drink at 10:30". I said cool. 10:30 came and went. I text her at 11, "hey where are you." She says "Oh sorry! I was with my business partners at xxxxx cigar bar". I said "well then, good luck" And that was that.

I could have stuck it out. I could have said "no sweat, Im crashing, next time you're buying.." I closed the interaction for good. I 'nexted'. In hindsight, she was a solid 8 Ukrainian girl 12 yrs my junior, successful, dresses extremely well, educated in London, etc etc. More or less gf material. A rare one indeed, even where I live. I never had the chance to build any interest in her. Stupidly nexting in that case was the wrong move before I had significant time to build her attraction.

There's a balance to be struck between nexting out of ego-wounding and pride, and nexting when you get the sense that you're throwing good money after bad.

Unfortunately I think in America guys just tend to swing hard to the "throwing good money after bad" analysis. So many women have such an overinflated opinion of themselves, and yet give up the pussy so easily to the first player who shows up who happens to tick her boxes just the right way, that following any strategy other than "fail early, fail often" doesn't usually make a whole lot of sense.

I'm sitting around trying to "build attraction" with this girl and hoping she'll stop flaking but, as she's American, I know she just banged some guy two hours into the first date a week ago. I know this because I've been that guy! So...what am I sitting around doing this for? Maybe they have unicorns from the Ukraine, but AFAIK I've never met an American Unicorn before.

[RatInTheWoods]

As is well know in game circles, the frame that allows you to instantly next women without emotion if things don't go the way you like is very attractive to women.

Its also a sign of a man who is emotionally detached.

Its ironic that price you have to pay to be successful in game.

[AntiMediocrity]

This is a greatly timed thread given my recent posting. I usually focus on Politics for the objectivity and Everything Else for entertainment value, only visiting other sections via Today's Posts.

I went against that to ask about the best way to deal with orbiters, especially if the girl isn't breaking off the friendship in leu of his pursuit. I briefly mentioned my current situation for context.

I didn't say "What do I do in my current situation", and yet that didn't stop certain posters from jumping in with "Next!" and saying she's sleeping around. Completely disregarding the point of my OP.

If I wanted Next responses I wouldn't even make a post. If everyone posted Next in R'ship threads I wouldn't read threads outside of Politics and EE. It offers zero insight, and moving from one girl to the next at the drop of a hat may feel fulfilling for the Notch building demographic here but I personally want to learn how relationships operate and how to bring out the best of high-quality women who inevitably have a crack here and there.

There's another forum that I post at, where Next is actually appropriate and that's because the users there are dating some really crazy broads and we all would have gone No Contact far earlier. Here however we tend to have better standards and the responses/approaches should reflect that.

[Resolute]

So Anti,

Despite your rather verbose posts regarding your question, I still haven't been able to determine your conclusion. What did you decide to do with this girl? Do you accept her beta-orbiters and that she knows exactly whats up? Do you choose to remain blissfully ignorant, thinking your girl is either socially inept, stupid, or both? Are you looking for an alternative way to correct her behavior?

Sometimes I think people make posts like this (similar to VV's recent post(s)) hoping to get a go-ahead and a pass for a girls bad behavior, similar to how females seek "you go girl!" from their friends for their own poor behavior. I do hope I'm wrong though.

To address an earlier point made by another: Yes, you should, in context of an LTR, be molding a girl into being YOUR girl, but this requires the proper material to start with. Can you chisel a stone into the statue of David? Sure, but do you have the skills, the time, and the tools? Much easier to start with wet clay and make something out of that.

And even if you do have the skills to chisel stone, you need the right size, shape, and type of stone. Some guys just want to take a girl they've been with, and just because they've already invested so much, they want to keep her around, despite the fact that she has flaws that aren't going to change, aren't going to improve. Which would be fine, but the guy already knows it's an issue, he just isn't ready to admit it's a deal-breaker out of fear he'll never meet another girl as good as her again.

There is a fine line between arrogantly nexting any girl who shows even a slight imperfection and between accepting a girl with major flaws out of fear you won't meet a girl as good as her again. But if you're young and have a relatively high SMV, you're far better off "nexting" too often than you are keeping girls who aren't right around. It's kind of like investing---when you're young, put your money into high-risk, high payout investments, when you're older, switch to more stable, but lower paying investments.

[Fortis]

Yeah, if a chick takes more out of the cookie jar than she contributes then her ass is gone. Simple as that. Does she add to Fortis Inc. or does she take away from it? If she's taking away from me her ass is gone. "nexting" dumb bitches has made me far less stressed out and way happier than ever. I'm no veteran by any means but putting myself first has done more for my game than anything else.

[RunsWithScissors]

Nexting girls is something relatively new to me (along with abundance mentality) over the past year or so and I've had mixed results. There's been a couple girls that definitely needed to just go away and cutting them off was the right approach to get them out of my life with no drama. There's been a few girls who were questionable and cutting them off resulted in them reaching out to me again some months later wanting to fuck me again, and in every case they strictly brought up sex not relationships. But I think there's been a few times where I reacted too quickly and strongly and cut off relatively good girls for minor behavior things rather than work with them or try to mold their behavior as WIA mentions in his latest blog post and I lost opportunities to learn to be better at game. A couple in particular I'm sad about but abundance mentality remains.

Overall I think I'm still heavily calibrating myself as I learn about game and it's role in my life.

[Hypno]

(02-02-2017 11:36 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

The problem about telling newbies "next" is that, it's similar to a billionaire telling a young first time start up to next the first client who gives him troubles, because there's so many damn clients out there. He then ends up learning nothing about business, client relation and customer service.

yes, its a paradox. to keep the girl on terms that are worth keeping, you have to be prepared to lose her. its more effective communicate this through your actions and frame ahead of time than wait until something goes wrong and bail. instead, you lay out your expectations.

there was a seinfeld episode where George Costanza screws the cleaning lady in the office. He reponds by saying (unpersuasively), I didn't know that was against the rules, because if i did then I would have acted differently. His boss saw through it as BS. In a relationship, you have to do the same thing. When a serious line is crossed, you have to communicate that. In my case, a serious line was approached and I told her that I lost all trust and we could never be the same. She begged for me back, and I continued the relationship on a different basis. From my perspective, I got more out of the relationship after that point because I had communicated my willingness to move on. Too many guys are supplicants to women and jump through every hoop they put up.

[questor70]

(02-08-2017 12:03 PM)RunsWithScissors Wrote:  

There's been a few girls who were questionable and cutting them off resulted in them reaching out to me again some months later wanting to fuck me again, and in every case they strictly brought up sex not relationships.

In my experience when a woman throws out F-budy status as a means of avoiding the "next", she still wants more, and she'll hit you with those expectations later and when it forces you to do a hard next she'll hit you up with guilt/shame for how you're to blame for leading her on and wasting so much of her time. So you can't go based on what she says she wants. You need to figure out what she really wants.

[Hypno]

(02-09-2017 01:08 PM)questor70 Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 12:03 PM)RunsWithScissors Wrote:  

There's been a few girls who were questionable and cutting them off resulted in them reaching out to me again some months later wanting to fuck me again, and in every case they strictly brought up sex not relationships.

In my experience when a woman throws out F-budy status as a means of avoiding the "next", she still wants more, and she'll hit you with those expectations later and when it forces you to do a hard next she'll hit you up with guilt/shame for how you're to blame for leading her on and wasting so much of her time. So you can't go based on what she says she wants. You need to figure out what she really wants.

I slightly disagree with this.

when you next her, you firmly communicate that you are in abundance and you are in control of the relationship. if they come back to you, then they are doing so on your terms. At that point, your relationship is not the same (i.e. not wife material) but it may be beneficial to you on some level - FB, greater abundance, etc. My experience is they are generally compliant with the new terms, and the small risk that they won't be is not a reason to not continue the relationship on your terms. You might have to end it a second time, just as some relationships you have to end a first time. The real value of this is not to get a 2nd relationship or avoiding the end of relationship. Rather, the real value is that the relationship while it continues is more likely to be in harmony with YOUR objectives.

[questor70]

"you firmly communicate that you are in abundance and you are in control of the relationship."

Clear communication isn't enough. They can sign an agreement in blood and then claim later it was under duress. I'm not denying your personal experience but never get lulled into thinking that just because you talked things through and she seemed okay with it that she won't try to renegotiate or guilt-trip you later. You're in control only insofar as you got her to agree to a consolation prize.

Women always play the victim card. They'll say they were so in love that they couldn't let you go and if you were a real man™ you would have done it for them rather than exploiting the situation. They don't want to take responsibility for their own actions.

[birthday cat]

(02-09-2017 03:05 PM)questor70 Wrote:  

Women always play the victim card. They'll say they were so in love that they couldn't let you go and if you were a real man™ you would have done it for them rather than exploiting the situation. They don't want to take responsibility for their own actions.

This relates to something I've been thinking about recently.

Most of my serious relationships have ended partly because of the following scenario. The girl was in love but she didn't want to put in the work to improve the relationship. I told the girl the things we both needed to do to advance the relationship and she agreed that my requests were very reasonable. I followed through on my things but she didn't follow through on much at all.

Some girls say "I love you" and expect you take on more responsibility but they don't get any additional responsibility. You have to lead and manage the relationship but they won't do much to contribute. In the worst cases it's almost as if they are saying "I love you so you are an asshole if you don't give me everything I want" which is essentially an "I love you" shit test.

There are always exceptions to the rule and that is what we are looking for. So for a girl to be considered for a relationship, she must demonstrate her willingness to work or sacrifice to improve the relationship. Obviously this is reasonable if we are willing to do it also.

[Deepdiver]

I have always lived by the next rule even if I have to walk away from a house or an apartment full of furnishings... In my kind of work a DV charge or restraining order can phuck up a background investigation for a good job.

I have lived by the 5 Tests of a LTR or pre-marriage relationship... There are basically two types of women... Those that can cook and clean and those that can shake and bake... I am partial to the latter.

5 LTR tests:

1. Love
2. Honor
3. Respect
4. Loyalty
5. Fidelity

Perhaps when I have time I will write up a detailed ROK article.

It being 2017 they all have to be earners because if a woman is not making money she is spending it... The nature of women is what it is.

I now demand that we work and save towards common goals. I have a VA mortgage eligibility so will include her in finding a decent AirB&B friendly income property that she will help manage... Best way to set yourself up in life is a decent income property... if she demands a McMansion and a Lexus she better have rich parents or NEXT.

[Deepdiver]

(02-09-2017 07:59 PM)Deepdiver Wrote:  

I have always lived by the NEXT rule even if I have to walk away from a house or an apartment full of furnishings... In my kind of work a DV charge or restraining order can phuck up a background investigation for a good job.

I have lived by the 5 Tests of a LTR or pre-marriage relationship... There are basically two types of women... Those that can cook and clean and those that can shake and bake... I am partial to the latter.

5 LTR tests:

1. Love
2. Honor
3. Respect
4. Loyalty
5. Fidelity

Perhaps when I have time I will write up a detailed ROK article.

It being 2017 they all have to be earners because if a woman is not making money she is spending it... The nature of women is what it is.

I now demand that we work and save towards common goals. I have a VA mortgage eligibility so will include her in finding a decent AirB&B friendly income property that she will help manage... Best way to set yourself up in life is a decent income property... if she demands a McMansion and a Lexus she better have rich parents or NEXT.

Here is a great link I copied and pasted and saved to a Word Doc when I was first going hard core red pill...

How to Pick the Right Wife:
https://boldanddetermined.com/PICK-THE-RIGHT-WIFE/

[questor70]

(02-09-2017 07:40 PM)birthday cat Wrote:  

it's almost as if they are saying "I love you so you are an asshole if you don't give me everything I want" which is essentially an "I love you" shit test.

If love it's being used as a shit-test, then it isn't true love. It's just a shallow infatuation. When you really love someone it should not be conditional on whether or not the other person reciprocates. It means you appreciate who they are independent of outcome.

All a guy should be expected to do is be honest and considerate. If he's not falling in love for one reason or another, no amount of nagging, shaming, or negotiating will change that. In fact it tends to only alienate him.

Also, I lose a lot of respect for women who are willing to settle for F-buddy arrangements to the point where I wouldn't even want to take them up on such an offer. If I approached them with serious LTR potential (and they me) then it needs to sink or swim on that basis. If I wanted an F-buddy I'd look for someone who was more casual and carefree about sexual relations.

You can't navigate in and out of that without having to deal with a lot of drama. Keeping a spurned woman around as an F-buddy is kind of the equivalent of a beta-orbiter for women, only it includes sex. It's not fair to women to do that to them when you know they are just being prevented from looking for a new relationship. Eventually they'll burn out on it and they'll blame you for not forcing cold-turkey at a much earlier stage. She'll call you all sorts of names if you next her one way or another, but doing it sooner is more merciful, whether she realizes it or not.

[Swell]

I live by the "next her" mentality and I support other member to do so.

It is an unfair world we live in.

I will put up some of her shit like, she doesn't like my sardine breath. I don't care about a little complaining.
But if she shows up at my house with sardine breath and I know she doesn't like sardines. Fuck her. she is gone.

Relationships are a tug-o-war and she should be only playing with me.
I don't spin plates, I got too much going on.

Hahaha Bitch are like waves, catch one, rip the shit out of it.
Then the wave breaks on the shore, swim back out and catch another one.