[MrLemon]

Lady down the street is one of those hard-ass bitchy former woman lawyer Gloria Steinem type. I avoid talking to her, because no matter how gently I put it, the slightest mention of men's troubles causes her to start screeching.

The other day at a neighbors house she was RANTING and RAVING because she's having to spend thousands of dollars a month to pay for an apartment for her grandsons, because literally, they cannot get a job for any reason, and can't get through college.

She kept yelling: "I SHOULD JUST LET THEM LIVE IN THE STREET"

And then one of the other men said quietly..."Ok, then let them live in the street, just let them be homeless."

Then the lady shouts "I CAN"T LET THEM BE HOMELESS, FUCK WHY CAN'T THEY JUST GROW UP AND GET JOBS!"

At which point the other guy says "Well, there aren't any jobs for them to get Mary. The average young guy won't be hired unless he's got a masters degree in computer science or something"

and then she yells "WELL THEN THEY NEED TO WORK HARDER IN COLLEGE!"

and the man responds: "It takes 7 years now to get enough classes to graduate, and they can't pay the tuition. These kids are really stuck"

-------
She just kept yelling about how much money it was costing her. I wanted to enjoy every last minute of the dumb cunt's frustration. She's paying out big bucks to support her grandsons, because she and her shithead feminist friends have basically fucked boys over.

It is so sweet.

[Glaucon]

use this next time as a background music while she complains:

[Grodin]

I agree with her that her grandsons should get a damn job. No excuses.

However, kids don't magically grow up. They do need to be taught how to be adults, and the expectation has to be set. Seems like someone dropped the ball there.... rabid feminist... I can only imagine how that happened...

[MrLemon]

(08-04-2015 01:36 PM)Grodin Wrote:  

I agree with her that her grandsons should get a damn job. No excuses.

Same bullshit I hear all the time.

There are no jobs for them. I know. I've tried to help.

Actually there are jobs. They pay 1/4 as much as the equivalent job I worked 30 years back. The kids could work themselves into an early heart attack (some do) but they can't even pay rent for a local apartment.

Every time I hear people complain that kids are lazy these days, it makes me sick to my stomach. What a fucking lie.

[Saweeep]

Well the obvious solution is for them to get one of these poorly paid jobs and for her to continue to support them as she does now at the same time.

It seems to be the way the Western world is moving right now.

[YossariansRight]

   

[GlobalMan]

I'm not in the "there are no jobs" crowd. Thats an excuse. There are jobs. Depending on where you live, unemployment is around 5%. And no, they aren't just part time jobs for minimum wage. Nothing for you in your area? Move to an area with a lot of companies in your field.

My lady just a got a new job a week ago that pays 60k+, and she never went to a day of college. She's spent her time acquiring in-demand skills in a technical field, and barely, if any, of the guys fresh out of college have even half of those skills, she helps get those kids up to speed at work, in fact.

The educational institutions are failing, the parents are idiots, and *some* kids have an entitlement mentality and no ambition.

To the guy above, it's not a "lie" that kids are lazy these days. Are all of them? No, far from it. Are a significant amount lazy? Yes. And they have no real skills because they studied "business" or sociology. For those people, no, there aren't a lot of great jobs. And thats on the students for their lack of research, and on schools for being far far behind the times.

The situation is sucky, but this is nothing new, yet people keep getting tens of thousands of dollars in debt to go to college (not necessary), and keep studying liberal arts garbage. If you know the circumstances, and you know the likely outcome, yet continue to go down the same path and hope for the best later... who's really to blame?

[Grange]

Obviously the solution is raising the minimum wage so that it will cost employers even more to hire them.

[Parlay44]

Well thank god for feminism that she has a good paying job so she can support them. She could have been stuck as a housewife cooking and raising babies. Ohh the horror.

[Legendver2]

Question, where's the mom and dad in all this? Just curious, don't have to answer if you don't want to.

[Sonsowey]

Matriarchy is this way.

There are many matriarchal farming societies in the world.

Basically men float around fucking this and that girl, women maintain households where they raise their children, typically with the help of other female family members.

The women in these societies usually can farm enough to provision for their kids and the men typically aren't too involved.

So they got their matriarchy!

[Parlay44]

Feminism is great when they get all the benefits and none of the responsibilities. Like when women are in their sexual prime 16-26.

What feminism really is: An attempt by women to extend their shelf life way past their sexual expiration date. They want to keep the sausage party going forever.

[Soothesayer]

You didn't mention which city this was, but generally speaking I'd say they can forget it. Those boys aren't getting jobs unless they have some pull at one of the local companies. Where I live, a grocery chain held a job fair. 2000 people applied for 130 positions. A Wendy's also opened recently. They received 1500 applications for 50 positions, all part time.

The jobs are gone and they're not coming back, and you can thank WOMEN in positions of power for it. The best thing either of those boys can do is learn to write, and learn to write damn well. Even if they are homeless, it is still possible if they work hard. Reading and writing a shit ton of books can be done without hard capital. All it takes is drive.

- Self-publish books every month using public libraries. Create your own covers with Gimp or outsource to Fiverr. TONS of guys make five figures a month in Thailand - who had almost nothing to their name when they arrived in Bangkok. All they had was drive.
- Build an affiliate business.
- Create Udemy videos and then create a educational video website and sell them using Stripe or some other tool.

Any of the above is better than working for some Dilbert-doofus for 30 odd hours a week - which won't be enough to sustain any kind of livelihood, let alone a business.

Becoming homeless is probably the best thing in the world that could happen to these boys. Better to be homeless here than in Thailand.

[Samseau]

(08-04-2015 02:53 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

And they have no real skills because they studied "business" or sociology. For those people, no, there aren't a lot of great jobs. And thats on the students for their lack of research, and on schools for being far far behind the times.

Donald Trump has one of those worthless business degrees, obviously he must have been such a dummy for getting one.

Newsflash: Once upon a time there were businesses in America.

The entire country is going broke because it's corrupt from top to bottom in almost every aspect. Name anything: the schools, colleges, tax system, election system, regulations, zoning laws, etc. And you can find hundreds of problems.

The idea that young people are to blame for their problems when they were born into an extremely fucked up world is laughable.

[Quintus Curtius]

(08-04-2015 06:40 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(08-04-2015 02:53 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

And they have no real skills because they studied "business" or sociology. For those people, no, there aren't a lot of great jobs. And thats on the students for their lack of research, and on schools for being far far behind the times.

Donald Trump has one of those worthless business degrees, obviously he must have been such a dummy for getting one.

Newsflash: Once upon a time there were businesses in America.

The entire country is going broke because it's corrupt from top to bottom in almost every aspect. Name anything: the schools, colleges, tax system, election system, regulations, zoning laws, etc. And you can find hundreds of problems.

The idea that young people are to blame for their problems when they were born into an extremely fucked up world is laughable.

Sssaaammmuluuussssssssssssss

[Laner]

I volunteer with young men at the impressionable ages of 15-25. They have gone through what is questionably the most important part of their developmental years with their heads down. The blame does not fall entirely on them or a single factor, but with the situation slowly getting worse for this type of youth the sum of these factors have helped to create an extremely unpleasant reality.

They have been raised by parents who could raise a family on a single wage, even if the single income was that of a carpenter. If their father lost his job, he drove around for a couple hours in the morning, stopped by some build sites or shops and was back home with a new job in time for breakfast. Hiring has now become a complicated process thanks to HR make work programs. So now these young men have to deal with the knowledge that their father could provide for many people with likely a lesser education. This is a hard hit to take.

In high school they have counselors who have been out of touch with reality in regards to jobs. As career products of the education system themselves, they have no hesitation to send young men off to university to "follow their passion" of learning Medieval History of North Eastern Europe with a minor in philosophy and English. They are being sold a formula for debt and discouragement and an ever real potential to backslide into poverty if they don't have a family safety net. They have no option to run out and find a woman who will be more than happy to take care of them.

Perhaps the worst of this is the psychology behind the scenes where these guys get anxiety logging into their social media accounts where all around them is the illusion that everyone is successful or going places on their way to success. There is a very real debilitating result when a young man has an ever present feeling of inferiority and hopelessness. In the past generations these average, bright, happy young men were the building blocks (and the builders) of nearly all we have to be thankful for. They were the worker bees who were able to build something of their own lives and each year they had more, not less.

This does not make me feel anything but bullshit. I don't care if it has anything to do with feminism, its not a +/- situation its a fucking CALL TO ACTION for the young men to get back into the game and start thinking for themselves. The Canary in the coalmine is dead.

[Grodin]

(08-04-2015 02:32 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  

(08-04-2015 01:36 PM)Grodin Wrote:  

I agree with her that her grandsons should get a damn job. No excuses.

Same bullshit I hear all the time.

There are no jobs for them. I know. I've tried to help.

Actually there are jobs. They pay 1/4 as much as the equivalent job I worked 30 years back. The kids could work themselves into an early heart attack (some do) but they can't even pay rent for a local apartment.

Every time I hear people complain that kids are lazy these days, it makes me sick to my stomach. What a fucking lie.

You have honed in on the wrong part of my post, that is to say it's not what I meant to convey. Perhaps by saying "get a damn job" I gave the impression that these men were lazy, but that wasn't my main point. They may or may not be lazy.

Mostly what I failed to communicate here is that someone, imo, is setting low expectations for these boys. I might be off the mark for these individuals, but on a 10000 foot level there's no doubt in my mind that young men are capable of way more than they're given credit for. To put it more direct, we are coddling our teens and young adults.

Without trying to solve their problems, I don't believe that they can't 'get a job'. Even if there are no jobs to be had, they may have to create one themselves. I'll admit I may be out of touch on the details of what young people face today, and location matters too, but if young people are given low expectations that's probably all they'll rise to.

[chagataev]

(08-04-2015 06:40 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(08-04-2015 02:53 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

And they have no real skills because they studied "business" or sociology. For those people, no, there aren't a lot of great jobs. And thats on the students for their lack of research, and on schools for being far far behind the times.

Donald Trump has one of those worthless business degrees, obviously he must have been such a dummy for getting one.

Newsflash: Once upon a time there were businesses in America.

The entire country is going broke because it's corrupt from top to bottom in almost every aspect. Name anything: the schools, colleges, tax system, election system, regulations, zoning laws, etc. And you can find hundreds of problems.

The idea that young people are to blame for their problems when they were born into an extremely fucked up world is laughable.

Exactly. There are still some degrees and particular skills that can help people get good jobs. For any individual person it's good advice to tell him to pursue those particular fields. But it's no advice on a societal level. The couple fields that still lead to good paying jobs do so because there are so few people in them. If everyone taking useless degrees went in for computer science, engineering, etc (and there are already fewer STEM jobs than STEM degree holders) the wages there would plummet like they are in everything else.

The fact is there AREN'T enough jobs. There are hundreds of applicants for any given job. Anything who doesn't recognize that reality and the problem it presents is delusional.

Competent, intelligent people should be able to find a job no matter what their background or particular technical skills. People should develop particular skills to improve their value, but in any functioning economy there should be enough businesses and things being done that a competent, intelligent man who can add value should be able to find a decent paying job no matter his background. This is very, very obviously not the case in the developed world anymore.

For the future I'm incredibly pessimistic that this will get any better. I suspect the jobs available will continue to dwindle and start putting a squeeze even on highly skilled labor (this is already happening). I predict a continual worsening of economic conditions, wage growth and job security over the next several decades. In fact I predict it will become so bad that only violent revolution, or the real and present threat of violent revolution, will reverse it. Our elites are absolutely, totally 100% *USELESS*. You cannot over-estimate how ill-equipped and uninterested they are in dealing with the problems that affect real people.

[Easy_C]

That said...I'm on both sides of the fence.

The jobs that everyone's thinking of when they say "just go get a job" really are gone. Many of the highly paid jobs that the boomers had, and low cost of living, are long gone. Also gone are the insane 10% interest rates they could get for their retirement savings....and don't underestimate how big a deal that is. Try setting up an excel model that uses the compound interest formula to move $1000 30 years into the future with a 10% interest rate. Then change that 10% to the 2% you'd get nowadays and see what happens. It's about a tenth of the return you'd get at 10%.

So not only can you not save up a substantial amount of cash nowadays due to shitty paying jobs and high costs of living(especially rent), but the money you do save wont' go very far towards your retirement. A lot of boomers aren't capable of understanding those two dynamics.....even IF you ignore the fact that we're due for a public sector fiscal crash and most millenials know it.

However, it is completely false that there are "no" jobs out there. The jobs that are worthwhile require you to think outside the box. Guys on this forum have done well in blue collar entrepeneurship, oil(not as lucrative as before but still good), e-commerce, and so on. There's also a lot of jobs overseas that don't offer anywhere near as much on paper but allow you to live a very nice lifestyle due to the dollar's greater purchasing power in those regions....not to mention that there's a lot of tech and business careers that, although extremely competitive to get into, offer a significant financial reward.

The biggest problem is the knowledge gap. Most millenials have never heard of the idea of working oil in the Yukon, don't know that there's places in Asia that will hire Americans, think software engineers are just programmers, and don't even know what people with business degrees actually do.

[Travesty]

(08-04-2015 07:06 PM)Laner Wrote:  

Perhaps the worst of this is the psychology behind the scenes where these guys get anxiety logging into their social media accounts where all around them is the illusion that everyone is successful or going places on their way to success. There is a very real debilitating result when a young man has an ever present feeling of inferiority and hopelessness.

This is a big part of the equation. I started growing up at the start of this age never used and still don't use social media much, even for me though there is this sense everyone else is living large and having a ball all the time and is extremely interesting.

It makes me feel like I am never doing enough, not to mention the people that post the most often in social media of great things going on are often kids with family money or girls with some guy's money.

[samsamsam]

Laner,

Respect to you for volunteering. The partial quote reminded me of something I have heard.

(08-04-2015 07:06 PM)Laner Wrote:  

Perhaps the worst of this is the psychology behind the scenes where these guys get anxiety logging into their social media accounts where all around them is the illusion that everyone is successful or going places on their way to success. There is a very real debilitating result when a young man has an ever present feeling of inferiority and hopelessness.

I have heard Millennials, despite the entitled perception that many have of them, are a very anxious generation. That stuff compounds on itself and I can only imagine it leading to destructive behavior. Looking over your shoulder and constantly being in some form of doubt will ruin a person's health. Any guys experiencing this, I suggest that you take whatever steps you can to counteract these negative forces.

I remember when I was younger and in my first job, I was challenged in certain aspects. I was the youngest person in my start group, and despite my academic and tested achievements, I lacked certain skills and understanding of the world that would have helped me. I had no idea how adults socialized, mainly because I was a kid. I didn't know how to deal with setbacks. I didn't grow up entitled or anything like that, just that school was easy and I graduated early. Didn't even know what hard work was, it was all sort of a game but graduated with a useful degree. This isn't meant to be a humble brag. On my first real job, I started grinding my teeth (which still affects me today - thank god for mouth guards) and just worried about shit. It didn't help having a prick of a manager who rode me. Looking back it was a good experience, mainly from what I learned and how I grew, but it wasn't easy. But it was a kick in the nuts and seriously affected my perspective and still does. I definitely worry about stuff, a bit more than I need to at times. It comes in great for strategy development (I generally see all angles to a situation), not so much for relaxing and chilling.

Fortunately, it was made clear to me I was never meant to work for someone else. I'd hate for anyone here to get overly stressed at an early age. So do what you can to minimize it. Including staying off of social media.

[Grodin]

On the perception of "keeping up with the joneses" so to speak, I agree 100%. This is again where mentors come in. When I was in my young 20s I used to look around at the guys my age driving mustangs and dressed nice but I had no idea how many of them were swimming in debt. Which could lead to a big tangent about our debt problem and the scarcity of capital... just watch IOUSA if you want to know more.

As far as jobs go, talk to anyone who's looking to hire and it is hard to find competent people that meet basic qualifications. Qualified, intelligent people 'should' have no problem getting a job, I agree, but it 'should' also not be that hard to find qualified, intelligent people.

I don't mean to paint a rosey picture, I know the economy is in trouble and there are problems with the blue collar job market (and the white collar is catching up) but there are jobs for qualified plumbers, pipe fitters, welders, equipment operators, boiler technicians, longshoreman, engineers, accountants, logistics specialists, and on and on. The only caveat I'll add is that in today's economy, you might have to move to where the jobs are. Or hell get a nursing degree and go into the bloated medical field. Might be akin to enjoying the downfall but you'll have a job.

[chagataev]

(08-04-2015 07:49 PM)Grodin Wrote:  

As far as jobs go, talk to anyone who's looking to hire and it is hard to find competent people that meet basic qualifications. Qualified, intelligent people 'should' have no problem getting a job, I agree, but it 'should' also not be that hard to find qualified, intelligent people.

I don't know, I find it very difficult to accept that it is hard to any business to find people good enough to do the job. If some jobs are hard to fill because not enough people have a very specific piece of technical knowledge, then try to hire smart people and train them. But NO COMPANY does this anymore. They all want people who have the exact background the job calls for. This tells me they must have a lot of wiggle room and find more than enough people capable of doing the work. I suspect if I were to talk to any hiring manager they would say exactly that it's hard for them to find the right people, but I suspect a. they're lying, b. the "right people" to them are people with more experience, skills and qualifications than they're willing to pay for.

[Grodin]

There is definitely a little bit of that too. I'll admit that my experience with this issue is specific to the buttfuckingly cold arctic, where not a lot of people want to work and live.

[Samseau]

(08-04-2015 07:26 PM)chagataev Wrote:  

(08-04-2015 06:40 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(08-04-2015 02:53 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

And they have no real skills because they studied "business" or sociology. For those people, no, there aren't a lot of great jobs. And thats on the students for their lack of research, and on schools for being far far behind the times.

Donald Trump has one of those worthless business degrees, obviously he must have been such a dummy for getting one.

Newsflash: Once upon a time there were businesses in America.

The entire country is going broke because it's corrupt from top to bottom in almost every aspect. Name anything: the schools, colleges, tax system, election system, regulations, zoning laws, etc. And you can find hundreds of problems.

The idea that young people are to blame for their problems when they were born into an extremely fucked up world is laughable.

Exactly. There are still some degrees and particular skills that can help people get good jobs. For any individual person it's good advice to tell him to pursue those particular fields. But it's no advice on a societal level. The couple fields that still lead to good paying jobs do so because there are so few people in them. If everyone taking useless degrees went in for computer science, engineering, etc (and there are already fewer STEM jobs than STEM degree holders) the wages there would plummet like they are in everything else.

The fact is there AREN'T enough jobs. There are hundreds of applicants for any given job. Anything who doesn't recognize that reality and the problem it presents is delusional.

Competent, intelligent people should be able to find a job no matter what their background or particular technical skills. People should develop particular skills to improve their value, but in any functioning economy there should be enough businesses and things being done that a competent, intelligent man who can add value should be able to find a decent paying job no matter his background. This is very, very obviously not the case in the developed world anymore.

For the future I'm incredibly pessimistic that this will get any better. I suspect the jobs available will continue to dwindle and start putting a squeeze even on highly skilled labor (this is already happening). I predict a continual worsening of economic conditions, wage growth and job security over the next several decades. In fact I predict it will become so bad that only violent revolution, or the real and present threat of violent revolution, will reverse it. Our elites are absolutely, totally 100% *USELESS*. You cannot over-estimate how ill-equipped and uninterested they are in dealing with the problems that affect real people.

Exactly. The analogy can be made to game. If everyone learned game and worked out hardcore, would all men start to get laid more? No, it would just mean that women would increase their standards.

Likewise, if employees increase their skills, employers will just increase their standards.

If you want more men to get laid, then one must increase the supply of women (there are many ways to do this, such as strict monogamy). And if you want more people to get jobs, one must increase the amount of jobs.