[TheBMan]

(07-09-2015 07:50 PM)Sherman Wrote:  

The laws encourage beta behavior. Look at what happened to Zimmerman. Do you know if the District of Colombia allows defense of others? Everything you do will be carefully reviewed by a liberal leftist prosecutor looking to see if you applied too much force or provoked the confrontation. Or you may end up being judged by a jury from a district whose sympathies are with the criminals. Do you want to take the legal risk?

DC has very strict gun laws, which is ironic since parts of DC are very very dangerous. Anyone carrying on the metro would have probably been in violation of some law and been subject to prosecution.

[speakeasy]

(07-09-2015 07:42 PM)TheBMan Wrote:  

Look, I live in the DC area and take metro sometimes. I'm a Republican who hates Obama, hates Hillary, hates feminism, and loves the things Trump is saying. If that mf'er with the knife would have tried to rob me I would have fought his ass until he killed me, and I dont think he could have, even with the knife. I'm 6'3, 200, and can handle myself.
That being said, for the last 8 or so years guys like Kevin Sutherland have been calling us racists, woman haters, pushing shit like Obamacare on us, and just doing their typical Liberal bullshit despite us telling them all along it was a bad idea - if you think I'm going to risk my life helping out one these whiny little Obama leftie bitches who have gloated the last 7 years you're fucking nuts. You and your shitty policies created these situations, you fix them yourself.

What shitty policies are you referring to that lead to this stabbing? There were no street criminals before Obama?

DC is immensely safer now than it was in the past. In the 80s the place was known for drugs and violence. It was up there with Detroit as far as crime. Like many major cities that experienced a lot of crime in the 80s to mid 90s such as NYC and LA, it's come down dramatically. It's safer now than before Obama took office. I'm not saying that's BECAUSE of Obama per se, but violent crime has been trending down nationwide for a few decades now. So what are these leftist Obama policies you speak of that are supposedly responsible for crime?




DC's crime rate fell sharply during Obama years. So tell me again why Obama's name is being mentioned here?

[TheBMan]

The defending of black criminals that encourages situations like this. A punk ass little fucker like Trayvon Martin punches Zimmerman and smashes his head into the ground and instead of facing the facts that he was a violent little criminal its "if I had a son he would look like Trayvon" and poor little Trayvon was just walking home from getting skittles when the violent whitey attacked him. Michael Brown robs a convenience store, charges a cop, and tries to take his gun, and its "hands up dont shoot" bull shit. Same thing w/Freddie Grey. I'm surprised we havent heard some kind of excuse yet for the guy doing the stabbing on the metro to make it seem like it wasnt his fault. Meanwhile some white chick gets killed by an illegal in SF for no reason and Obama and his racist administration go quiet.

[Kabal]

(07-09-2015 05:28 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

How do you know he was defending thugs? That's quite a statement to make. Maybe he was defending ordinary black people whose lives were effected by racism and police brutality. Just because someone opposes these things doesn't mean they support thugs! Or that they deserve to be killed by them. If he was advocating that all black inmates be released from prison as a compensation for racism, then I could more readily see your point.

I think there's this polarizing notion that you are either on the black side or white side. And if you say anything about racism, you are automatically anti-white and siding with ALL black people, even if they are criminals. While I have never had any problem with the cops, there are upstanding black RVF members who have been fucked with by cops. Maybe it is these type of people that guys like Sutherland were trying to defend.

As I mention from time to time, it's good practice to check one's identity politics musings like one checks math homework: Plugging in different values for the variables, and seeing if the results make sense and/or are consistent.

If this Sutherland character wrote on Facebook against "rape culture" instead of institutional racism--about the pervasiveness of rape culture and how we need to address and combat it--and was later falsely accused of rape, would you have lamented:

(07-09-2015 05:28 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

How do you know he was defending false rape accusers? That's quite a statement to make. Maybe he was defending ordinary women whose lives were [a]ffected by rape and sexual assault. Just because someone opposes these things doesn't mean they support false rape accusers! Or that they deserve to be falsely accused by them. If he was advocating that all accused of rape are automatically convicted as a compensation for rape culture, then I could more readily see your point.

I think there's this polarizing notion that you are either on the female side or male side. And if you say anything about rape culture, you are automatically anti-male and siding with ALL women, even if they are false rape accusers. While I have never had any female friends or family that have been raped or sexually assaulted, there are upstanding RVF members who have had female friends or family raped or sexually assaulted. Maybe it is these type of women that guys like Sutherland were trying to defend.

Or would you have questioned, ridiculed, and denounced the presupposition of the existence of "rape culture," for its hysterical, ill-defined, and often outright fabricated and/or imaginary nature, and basked in the schadenfreude of a wannabe-SJW getting hoist by their own petard?

I'm guessing more the latter than the former.

Who on this forum, or anyone in general, is nominally pro-racism or pro-rape? Effectively no one.

However, measures to "address" and "combat" rape culture are generally just utility or welfare reducing (that is, harmful) to men as a whole--while not moving the needle on solving any problems--and simultaneously only emboldening anti-rape culture agitators to call for MOAR to be done and encouraging more false rape accusations.

Similarly, measures to "address" and "combat" racism are generally just utility or welfare reducing to whites as a whole (affirmative action, Section 8, Head Start, school busing, etc.)--and Asians, and oftentimes subsets of blacks, latinos, etc. as well--while not moving the needle on solving any problems, and simultaneously only emboldening anti-racism agitators to call for MOAR to be done and sometimes encouraging more undesirable behavior from the subset of blacks that are "thugs."

Hence, it is natural, to a certain extent, for someone to be skeptical of anti-rape culture agitators, and bask in a bit of schaudenfreude when such agitators themselves are falsely accused of rape--just like when an anti-racism agitator is stabbed to death by a minority they were so desperate and intent on defending.

[GlobalMan]

(07-09-2015 03:45 PM)Lucky Wrote:  

It's easy to think that you would have done something if you were there. I remember some actor got into trouble for claiming that if he'd been a passenger on 9/11 the terrorists never would have taken over the plane. You never know how you would react to this situation unless you experience it firsthand.

Kind of veering off topic, but on that subject I think these days there is zero chance of someone doing what happened on 9/11 again. Up to that time, all highjackings had been about demanding money/political reasons and the pilots were left flying the plane with the terrorists telling them where to go. It wasn't about crashing the plane, and if you just remained calm eventually it would be over and you'd be alright most likely. There was no reason for passengers to consider that they will be flown into a building. So you sit and comply because if you don't fuck with them you'll be fine.

Now that people know they will die for sure if they don't intervene in a plane highjacking there is just no chance for a repeat of what those attackers did. Even on 9/11 we saw that change in perception, as the passengers of flight 93 were able to talk to loved ones and get news, they knew what was going to happen and thats why they jumped the terrorists and the plane was prematurely flown in the ground, because the terrorists were being overpowered.

[eradicator]

(07-09-2015 04:45 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Quote:

That no one did displays not just cowardice but also a callous and unthinking selfishness. The Reddit eyewitness had no idea at the time how many more people Spires would kill, no idea if he would attack the 52-year-old woman or an elderly passenger. He just let him walk off the train into the subway, covered in Sutherland’s blood.

This is essentially the opposite of the spirit of United Flight 93—the heroic selflessness that prompted a group of courageous passengers on 9/11 to attack their hijackers, forcing them to crash the plane in a Pennsylvania field. Once they heard about the attacks in New York and the Pentagon, and knew many more would die if they failed to act, they knew what they had to do—no matter what happened to them.

Morally, the choice facing the passengers on that subway car on July 4 was no different than the one facing the United 93 passengers on 9/11. It doesn’t matter if it’s one life or one thousand, the principle is what counts.

I don't agree with this logic. It's easy to sit back and play armchair hero. When something like this actually happens and you have to step in and disarm a man with a deadly weapon, it's another story. Especially if you have a wife and kids to look after. In Krav Maga we studied knife and gun disarms and I'll tell you straight up it's way harder to disarm a man with a knife than one with a gun. And you WILL get stabbed, no matter how good you are. Especially if the guy with the knife knows how to use it.

As for his 9/11 analogy, he's only looking at the final jet when the passengers already got word of the suicidal attacks on the twin towers and knew their fate was sealed if they didn't do something. What happened in the first three planes was analogous to what happened on this metro train. The passengers thought that if they didn't interfere they'd be spared.

Indeed, the first thing they trained us in jiu jitsu knife training was to run if someone is threatening you with a knife. If you try to engage someone with a knife, you will get stabbed. If I had a gun in this case, I doubt I would try to shoot the attacker while he is stabbing someone, it's too easy to shoot the guy he is stabbing.

I'd call police, and tell them I am on a train witnessing a man get stabbed to death, and tell them which car I am on, see if they can stop the train, not sure what else to be honest.

I guess I am beta when it comes to not wanting to get stabbed

[speakeasy]

(07-09-2015 08:18 PM)TheBMan Wrote:  

The defending of black criminals that encourages situations like this. A punk ass little fucker like Trayvon Martin punches Zimmerman and smashes his head into the ground and instead of facing the facts that he was a violent little criminal its "if I had a son he would look like Trayvon" and poor little Trayvon was just walking home from getting skittles when the violent whitey attacked him. Michael Brown robs a convenience store, charges a cop, and tries to take his gun, and its "hands up dont shoot" bull shit. Same thing w/Freddie Grey. I'm surprised we havent heard some kind of excuse yet for the guy doing the stabbing on the metro to make it seem like it wasnt his fault. Meanwhile some white chick gets killed by an illegal in SF for no reason and Obama and his racist administration go quiet.

Of course you don't even try to see anything from Trayvon's perspective. You have some menacing guy following you in a car with a shaved head. Who then gets out of the car and starts following you on foot and aggressively questioning you. Zimmerman never identified himself as a resident or part of some patrol. From Trayvon's perspective Zimmerman was some random, menacing dude following you around that was up to no good. I'm sure many here would have beat Zimmerman's ass as well if the same situation happened to you.

In addition Zimmerman was told by the dispatcher on the phone to leave Trayvon alone and stay in the car and let the cops handle it who would be there in a few minutes.

Zimmerman is a fucking thug. Look at his run-ins with the law since the Trayvon shooting. The dude can't stay out of trouble. And here you are defending him like Trayvon was the criminal when Trayvon was minding his damn business walking to his dad's house. So what if the president said that might look like his son. Why does that bother you so much?

As for Michael Brown, Obama never made any statement about supporting him. So why are you dragging him into it.

[Kabal]

(07-09-2015 08:42 PM)eradicator Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 04:45 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Quote:

That no one did displays not just cowardice but also a callous and unthinking selfishness. The Reddit eyewitness had no idea at the time how many more people Spires would kill, no idea if he would attack the 52-year-old woman or an elderly passenger. He just let him walk off the train into the subway, covered in Sutherland’s blood.

This is essentially the opposite of the spirit of United Flight 93—the heroic selflessness that prompted a group of courageous passengers on 9/11 to attack their hijackers, forcing them to crash the plane in a Pennsylvania field. Once they heard about the attacks in New York and the Pentagon, and knew many more would die if they failed to act, they knew what they had to do—no matter what happened to them.

Morally, the choice facing the passengers on that subway car on July 4 was no different than the one facing the United 93 passengers on 9/11. It doesn’t matter if it’s one life or one thousand, the principle is what counts.

I don't agree with this logic. It's easy to sit back and play armchair hero. When something like this actually happens and you have to step in and disarm a man with a deadly weapon, it's another story. Especially if you have a wife and kids to look after. In Krav Maga we studied knife and gun disarms and I'll tell you straight up it's way harder to disarm a man with a knife than one with a gun. And you WILL get stabbed, no matter how good you are. Especially if the guy with the knife knows how to use it.

As for his 9/11 analogy, he's only looking at the final jet when the passengers already got word of the suicidal attacks on the twin towers and knew their fate was sealed if they didn't do something. What happened in the first three planes was analogous to what happened on this metro train. The passengers thought that if they didn't interfere they'd be spared.

Indeed, the first thing they trained us in jiu jitsu knife training was to run if someone is threatening you with a knife. If you try to engage someone with a knife, you will get stabbed. If I had a gun in this case, I doubt I would try to shoot the attacker while he is stabbing someone, it's too easy to shoot the guy he is stabbing.

I'd call police, and tell them I am on a train witnessing a man get stabbed to death, and tell them which car I am on, see if they can stop the train, not sure what else to be honest.

I guess I am beta when it comes to not wanting to get stabbed

Dear RVF,

Today on the DC train, I refrained from fighting a deranged knife-attacker with my fists.

Was this beta?

For those of you who think it is straightforward to dis-arm someone with a knife, give a friend a marker, tell them to try and stab you with it, and see if you can take it without getting marker-ink on you. I, personally, would not engage even a small woman with a knife (unless she was threatening me or a loved one), no matter how many male friends I have with me helping.

[TheBMan]

You are even more of a lost cause then I thought if you thought sweet little Trayvon wasnt a criminal.

[samsamsam]

(07-09-2015 08:54 PM)TheBMan Wrote:  

You are even more of a lost cause then I thought if you thought sweet little Trayvon wasnt a criminal.

But Zimmerman was a saint. I remember I heard something that the Catholic church is about to make him one. I heard since the incident he has committed his life to helping others and staying out of trouble.

[not_dead_yet]

(07-09-2015 07:42 PM)TheBMan Wrote:  

Look, I live in the DC area and take metro sometimes. I'm a Republican who hates Obama, hates Hillary, hates feminism, and loves the things Trump is saying. If that mf'er with the knife would have tried to rob me I would have fought his ass until he killed me, and I dont think he could have, even with the knife. I'm 6'3, 200, and can handle myself.
That being said, for the last 8 or so years guys like Kevin Sutherland have been calling us racists, woman haters, pushing shit like Obamacare on us, and just doing their typical Liberal bullshit despite us telling them all along it was a bad idea - if you think I'm going to risk my life helping out one these whiny little Obama leftie bitches who have gloated the last 7 years you're fucking nuts. You and your shitty policies created these situations, you fix them yourself.

This x1,000,000.

[speakeasy]

(07-09-2015 08:22 PM)Kabal Wrote:  

As I mention from time to time, it's good practice to check one's identity politics musings like one checks math homework: Plugging in different values for the variables, and seeing if the results make sense and/or are consistent.

If this Sutherland character wrote on Facebook against "rape culture" instead of institutional racism--about the pervasiveness of rape culture and how we need to address and combat it--and was later falsely accused of rape, would you have lamented:

False analogy. In your case, if he'd decried rape culture and then was falsely accused of rape, I would be saying that's what the bastard gets. Because #1, there is no rape culture. It's a fabrication by feminists.

Now if Sutherland said there are no black criminals and then got killed by one, that might be more analogous. Speaking about racism(which unlike rape culture is not a fabrication)in this country does not put one in bed with criminals or mean you support them or deny their existence. And if you think there's no racism in this country, you must never go on youtube. Good luck finding any video with the president(or any black people in it) that isn't an endless stream of Stormfront battle cries.

[TheBMan]

(07-09-2015 09:00 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 08:54 PM)TheBMan Wrote:  

You are even more of a lost cause then I thought if you thought sweet little Trayvon wasnt a criminal.

But Zimmerman was a saint. I remember I heard something that the Catholic church is about to make him one. I heard since the incident he has committed his life to helping others and staying out of trouble.

Zimmerman was a bit of a loser but he was never kicked out of school, caught with burglary tools, or punched his bus driver.

[TheWastelander]

(07-09-2015 09:01 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 08:22 PM)Kabal Wrote:  

As I mention from time to time, it's good practice to check one's identity politics musings like one checks math homework: Plugging in different values for the variables, and seeing if the results make sense and/or are consistent.

If this Sutherland character wrote on Facebook against "rape culture" instead of institutional racism--about the pervasiveness of rape culture and how we need to address and combat it--and was later falsely accused of rape, would you have lamented:

False analogy. In your case, if he'd decried rape culture and then was falsely accused of rape, I would be saying that's what the bastard gets. Because #1, there is no rape culture. It's a fabrication by feminists.

Now if Sutherland said there are no black criminals and then got killed by one, that might be more analogous. Speaking about racism(which unlike rape culture is not a fabrication)in this country does not put one in bed with criminals or mean you support them or deny their existence. And if you think there's no racism in this country, you must never go on youtube. Good luck finding any video with the president(or any black people in it) that isn't an endless stream of Stormfront battle cries.

Clear this up for me. Do you consider Youtube commenters' nonsensical bullshit representative of the average American's attitude or beliefs?

[TheBMan]

(07-09-2015 09:01 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 08:22 PM)Kabal Wrote:  

As I mention from time to time, it's good practice to check one's identity politics musings like one checks math homework: Plugging in different values for the variables, and seeing if the results make sense and/or are consistent.

If this Sutherland character wrote on Facebook against "rape culture" instead of institutional racism--about the pervasiveness of rape culture and how we need to address and combat it--and was later falsely accused of rape, would you have lamented:

False analogy. In your case, if he'd decried rape culture and then was falsely accused of rape, I would be saying that's what the bastard gets. Because #1, there is no rape culture. It's a fabrication by feminists.

Now if Sutherland said there are no black criminals and then got killed by one, that might be more analogous. Speaking about racism(which unlike rape culture is not a fabrication)in this country does not put one in bed with criminals or mean you support them or deny their existence. And if you think there's no racism in this country, you must never go on youtube. Good luck finding any video with the president(or any black people in it) that isn't an endless stream of Stormfront battle cries.

Blacks are just as racist, if not more so, then whites. Heck, I just saw a tape of 40 blacks beating and knocking a white dude unconscious in Cincinnati, but hey, that probably wasnt race related or anything.

[Captainstabbin]

(07-09-2015 09:26 PM)TheBMan Wrote:  

Blacks are just as racist, if not more so, then whites. Heck, I just saw a tape of 40 blacks beating and knocking a white dude unconscious in Cincinnati, but hey, that probably wasnt race related or anything.

And the Knockout Game was just a figment of white imagination.

I'm torn in this case. On one hand, I'd love to opportunity to put down a rabid animal, on the other, the victim was a liberal douche.

I wonder, had I used a handgun to stop the killer, if the victim would have protested against me and been a star prosecution witness at my trial...

[TheBMan]

(07-09-2015 09:59 PM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 09:26 PM)TheBMan Wrote:  

Blacks are just as racist, if not more so, then whites. Heck, I just saw a tape of 40 blacks beating and knocking a white dude unconscious in Cincinnati, but hey, that probably wasnt race related or anything.

And the Knockout Game was just a figment of white imagination.

I'm torn in this case. On one hand, I'd love to opportunity to put down a rabid animal, on the other, the victim was a liberal douche.

I wonder, had I used a handgun to stop the killer, if the victim would have protested against me and been a star prosecution witness at my trial...

If you put down the rabid animal you may even convert a liberal douche. Win win!!

[Soothesayer]

This is why I believe everyone should open carry. 9/11 would not have happened.

Come to think of it, lots of atrocities would never have happened.

When only the bad guys have weapons, the bad guys call the shots.

[Fast Eddie]

(07-09-2015 04:21 PM)RIslander Wrote:  

Not a single word about this on CNN. There is however, a front page article about a cat who bit a few people in NYC.

Nobody should find this surprising. At this point, saying "did you hear the news about [insert black on white violence here] today?" is as much of a one liner as "An Irishman walked by a bar."

[Phoenix]

Terrible, but at least it was a leftist zealot douchebag that died, if it had been a mother or something it would have been a different story. I wonder if after his "institutionalized racism" claims, he honestly believed when he was getting stabbed that "I'm to blame for this". If he'd survived I wonder what hamstering bullshit he would have posted on Facebook. I guess we'll never know.

Also: not sure why Zimmerman is being mentioned here, yet again. I can't imagine why people still think he was the bad guy and Trayvon was the good guy, I'm just going to chalk it down to a general "society doesn't know the difference between right and wrong anymore". Zimmerman did abide by the law; Trayvon did not abide by the law. This fact is never going to go away.

[Avon Barksdale]

Huh a race thread

[BortimusPrime]

(07-09-2015 10:36 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  

Terrible, but at least it was a leftist zealot douchebag that died, if it had been a mother or something it would have been a different story. I wonder if after his "institutionalized racism" claims, he honestly believed when he was getting stabbed that "I'm to blame for this". If he'd survived I wonder what hamstering bullshit he would have posted on Facebook. I guess we'll never know.

He probably felt guilty for forcing the poor oppressed murderer to have to push the knife so hard to get it in him.

[TigerMandingo]

I'm kind of surprised to see these comments on here blaming the victim. Dude was just sitting there minding his own damn business, I don't care if he was an Obama-loving anti-gun nut. That has nothing to do with anything. I don't think we need to beat around the bush here: black-on-white crime is very real and a serious problem in the US. The question is why is it being ignored and what to do about it. I highly recommend Colin Flaherty's work to anyone interested. He's no racist, just a guy laying out the facts of the matter.

[Phoenix]

(07-09-2015 10:54 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  

I'm kind of surprised to see these comments on here blaming the victim. Dude was just sitting there minding his own damn business, I don't care if he was an Obama-loving anti-gun nut.

Sure, he's not to blame, but he also strongly supported his being unarmed - which is the only way he could have potentially saved himself. So whilst it's unreasonable to say he's responsible for his own death (he wouldn't have had time to react anyway), he is partly responsible for the fact that no-one around him drew a pistol and shot his attacker dead. Politics kills.

[BortimusPrime]

Yeah, I mean he obviously didn't deserve to have something like that happen, but still it's ironic that every political view he espoused turned around to bite him in the ass.