[General Mayhem]

I've been dealing with the same thing.

My girl is great, but there have been times where I thought to myself, "Is this it?" I wonder why I don't have the same feelings for her as I did with LTRs when I was younger and I have come to terms with the fact that things are different now.

Knowing everything I know about women and game it would be impossible to still be that lovestruck little kid that I used to be. I have also thought about all the flings I have fallen hard for and realized that I could have never had a stable LTR with any of them.

You can have love or you can have lust. Love is great. Lust is a hell of a lot more fun.

I like having a girl who is totally devoted to me. I like being able to shit on the toilet next to her while she does her makeup, but I also feel the urge to bust a fat nut in some random skank's hair. It's nice to have a hot bitch who is your bitch and will do anything to please you, and it's also nice to get a desperate horny text from some lowly 7 who wants to come bang you in the middle of the night. They are two different kinds of satisfaction.

One of the things I often wonder is whether or not it is stupid or smart to get seriously locked down with a quality girl in a world full of devious skanks. Which is the better move? I really wish I knew. I know I could keep banging random hoes for another decade, but I don't know if I would be able to find a girl like I have now in 2025.

[Sonoma]

Same boat as you.

How much money do you get for staying with her?

[WestIndianArchie]

This post should be getting more attention.

WIA

[Dalaran1991]

This thread resonates with me. Back in my beta days I would fall in love very quickly and stay in infatuation for long time (often years)


Since turning redpill, its strange that I rarely ever have that feeling anymore. Sometimes I feel a bit attached to a girl I really like but I realize its just lust, and its gone as soon as the next day. When my ex broke up with me because I was cheating on her, I left without a second glance and never contacted her again. I felt nothing, and its good.


Its strange and liberating. I actually think there’s no need for a man to feel love. Or, you really need to have live through some shit in order to be able to say you can love. Whenever some 20s something say “love” I laugh. At 20 you don’t know shit.



Im still a romantic at heart and I like getting physical. I like doing LTR thing like going on dates, holding hands and PDA. But I can do it with many girls at the same time. She doesn’t matter. She is just a receptacle, the canvas upon which you can paint your passion. No girl is ever irreplaceable and she should not be.


Passion for life is the only love you need. And women should be made a good part of that life, but by no means are they indispensable.

[aguasin]

You can't fake your feelings or lack thereof.
Quit trying to rationalise them; you don't rationalise emotions like love, you either have it or you don't.

[Samseau]

(07-07-2015 10:33 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

This post should be getting more attention.

WIA

Are you talking about the OP? I stopped paying attention to him when he failed to respond to Speakeasy's post despite it getting the most likes in the thread.

[WestIndianArchie]

(07-08-2015 04:22 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(07-07-2015 10:33 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

This post should be getting more attention.

WIA

Are you talking about the OP? I stopped paying attention to him when he failed to respond to Speakeasy's post despite it getting the most likes in the thread.

The idea/issue is more important than the poster. For me at least. I answer a lot of newb questions because they usually illustrate a principle that's important to think about, vets and newbs alike. More often than not, the OP ignores what I have to say. I expect that, can't be mad about it.

But there are a lot of people that have left me hanging, and I know I've abandoned threads. That's the nature of the medium.

For me, the ideas are important.

WIA

[kaotic]

We've gotten alot of input so far, I'm sure there are many more seasoned/vets/pros that can relate somewhat to this.

Some more gents expressing views like this or theories/ideas may help others to come some life changing realizations.

I have a feeling this view eb and flows throughout our lives as we become players and move up in the world.

[philosophical_recovery]

The best way to describe what I feel occasionally is light anhedonia.

Sex or activities I once found pleasurable are not rewarding as they once were. Masturbation makes this far worse. This tends to roll over into emotional numbness when it comes to relationships. The feeling does not last. I notice, more than actually feeling anxiety, the lack of anxiety.

I remember waiting impatiently to hear back from the 6.5s-8s I've experienced in the past, sometimes anguishing over it with great anxiety. Even after actively doing what I could to drop my lingering beta behaviors.

Something snapped in me last year after repeatedly seeing so many instances of lazy, immature, and broken young women that were willing to bang. They would say how much they missed me, be my fucktoys, and how much they wanted just me, and literally a few days later they would just give up. That or suddenly discover feminism and start shit testing me with the tall white male bullshit. Then, just to relieve my balls I temporarily unfriendzoned a very eager 5 that I told repeatedly I didn't want a relationship with, just sex. I hated that I didn't have any feelings for her and continued to fuck her. I felt like I was doing her a favor, and finally cut it off.

Now, I've got a very sweet, low N count girl that so far hasn't given me any red flags. Is (lightly) on the clingy side (which I tend to prefer), does some things outside of sex that would have made me fall completely for her several years back, and who takes it eagerly from me, acts lovingly, and goes further and further as long as I prompt her. I've relaxed a bit, but there's this deeply skeptical thing in my head that tells me she's gonna fuck it up some how. Somehow, she's going to do something to disappoint me, or suddenly switch to bitch because I've seen it so many times. Yet, I like seeing her pale thin big bootied body with no bra scampering around outdoors with me, and the army of betas and gammas throwing themselves at her when I take her someplace public. I grin at the fact that just an hour before I was hitting it in the shower.

That's the thing. There's an ongoing meta-analysis and meta-awareness that I subconsciously had before through emotion, that I can now bring into the active parts of my brain thanks to game. It doesn't shut off. It's there, waiting to protect my emotions. I try to feel them as strongly as I can, but my emotional memory just isn't there. It's a very secured lockbox that I don't want to completely open. I want kids, but I'm considering all of the things I will have to give up to have them. Every single time I've dumped a LTR, it was because I realized she'd be a shitty mother or a shitty partner to raise a family with. I've been spending close to a decade now actively improving myself, with still lots of space to go, and I don't know when I want to eject. Maybe 50 year old me would regret not knocking this one up, or not? Who knows. I keep on seeing so many angles that it's hard to pull a single preferable outcome. Could I handle it? Yes. Would I go completely beta in the process? I don't think that's possible now. I think, with time, I may learn to love a woman again, to the greatest extent that I am capable anyway. It just has been too long, sifting through the nicely wrapped, barely used garbage that is the modern dating scene. But, that love will have to be on my terms, and it's going to be a difficult process for the poor girl.

Are they all at heart nasty little creatures? I don't think that I could go on dating them if I really believed that. There's too much hate and negativity in that. But, there's a strong commitment to knowing for sure that any offspring I take care of will be in fact mine.

[Conquerer7]

(07-07-2015 07:42 PM)General Mayhem Wrote:  

I've been dealing with the same thing.

My girl is great, but there have been times where I thought to myself, "Is this it?" I wonder why I don't have the same feelings for her as I did with LTRs when I was younger and I have come to terms with the fact that things are different now.

Knowing everything I know about women and game it would be impossible to still be that lovestruck little kid that I used to be. I have also thought about all the flings I have fallen hard for and realized that I could have never had a stable LTR with any of them.

You can have love or you can have lust. Love is great. Lust is a hell of a lot more fun.

I like having a girl who is totally devoted to me. I like being able to shit on the toilet next to her while she does her makeup, but I also feel the urge to bust a fat nut in some random skank's hair. It's nice to have a hot bitch who is your bitch and will do anything to please you, and it's also nice to get a desperate horny text from some lowly 7 who wants to come bang you in the middle of the night. They are two different kinds of satisfaction.

One of the things I often wonder is whether or not it is stupid or smart to get seriously locked down with a quality girl in a world full of devious skanks. Which is the better move? I really wish I knew. I know I could keep banging random hoes for another decade, but I don't know if I would be able to find a girl like I have now in 2025.

My exact situation right now. I'm 21 though.

[Plutoman]

After my long relationship that bombed, I just feel cold. I am talking to girls and all I feel like is I'm calculating how to get laid, so I can meet the core physical desires.

Cannot say now whether that feeling will come back, but I do know, even with her, I was desensitized to some level, even at 24 (now 25).

I think it may be a symptom of the type of people we are; we list characteristics because we primarily go through the subject via thinking rather than feeling. We identify and calculate and build a model, rather than just flow with the instincts (instincts still driving the calculations / models, but in a different manner). And a symptom of growing older as that type of person.

I know, as a slightly separate note, I inherently hold thoughts / dreams of being a fairly douchey guy.. which conveniently matches some of the guys who got laid a LOT in high school & college. In my dreams I'm showing those guys up, hitting another level over them; do I want to be that guy? Sometimes, yeah. A lot of the time, yeah. Do I want to want to be that guy? Not really. Being introspective on it can be revealing about yourself. No matter what you find though, you are still who you are and it is difficult to change the fundamentals.

[MMX2010]

I've only skimmed through the replies.

Have you guys considered that you're buying into the feminine frame that True Love is intense feelings and butterflies for you, without realizing that this feminine frame describes those butterflies as being for her, and not for you?

I'm 40, and I know that I'll never be the most emotional and affectionate man in the world. I also know that if a woman loves me for these qualities, she'll tell herself that I'm the type of guy who takes my promises seriously, and will, therefore, never get angry with her for no reason, nor destroy the relationship through having an affair, for no reason.

[Dagnasty]

I feel like I've been in the same situation as you, and I started a thread about it:

How Important is it to Love your LTR?

Wish I had an answer. What seems to work on an individual level is getting both. But that's not sustainable forever. Life itself isn't sustainable forever. As people, when we get something nice, we want to keep it.

The truth is, we keep nothing. Can't take anything with you. You can be free from want, but you'll lose your humanity in the process.

[Gas]

I think about this a lot.

I met a great girl last year. Amazing body, 21, no bullshit, never asked me about other girls, pretty, sweet. Definite LTR material but I had to next her, because I couldn't ignore the urge for new pussy. Trying to embrace an abundance mindset, I told myself there would be many more like her down the road...but how long do you keep passing, assuming the urge never really goes away?

One thing that I also think about is having kids. It seems great to go through hundreds of women and settle down when you're 50, but think about how much of your children's lives you will miss. If you have kids at 50, you will likely die when they are in their 30s. You may never meet your grandchildren, or even see your children get married. Whereas if you have children in your late twenties, you might die when they are 50 or 60. You will most likely meet all your grandchildren and be able to pass wisdom onto them. You will get to see your children grow old and have families, and be a part of that. If you're serious about having a family, this to me is the more important thing to consider.

[TMK]

I was counselling a guy only yesterday about why he can't meet women, for all the reasons he can come up with etc etc.

I told him, first and foremost, he needs to emote less.

That chimes true for what the OP says about having lovey-dovey feelings. 'Lovey-dovey', head-over-heels is what gets a lot of men in to trouble in the first place. It's the way Hollywood and Walt Disney taught men to love a women.

What the red pill teaches men is how to love a woman like a man should. Nowadays, I have affection for the women I am with, but it's absolutely under control and doesn't override my judgement. And, though I never overtly communicate it, I hold them to standards. When a standard is compromised, well, it's a long road back.

For me, and I never thought I'd hear myself say this, but placing less value on women (even the woman you are with), it not too far from the ideal. I'd say placing a differing value is the ideal.

There's nothing wrong with having feels for a woman, or even showing her affection. It's what you expect the consequences of those feeling and affections to be that really counts....

Of a woman you have affection for:

-Don't expect to be financially equal, because chances are she won't.
-Don't think she she'll never up and leave, even after 30 years of marriage, because she might.
-Don't plan to be or think you are exclusive until she brings it up, because until then you're probably not.
-Don't hesitate to play the field if you suspect she is.
-Above all, and with a nod to the above, don't be afraid to walk away even if you still have affections for her. Unless she's completely unhinged, chances are she'll get over it.

A man's affection for a woman has to be unconditional, but only within the scope of his own standards.

OP. It's probably not love you're missing. It's probably chemistry. As has been said, ask yourself if you are really in to this bird, you you just think she's a good catch.

[AboveAverageJoe]

Love is just a combination of chemicals in your brain that causes us to want to procreate and pair bond. Of course over time you will be desensitized to these chemical induced feelings, just like builkding tolerance to a drug. Consider this a good thing.
The same thing happens to women. Older women don't love with their entire being the way a teenage virgin does.

[TMK]

(09-09-2016 09:31 AM)AboveAverageJoe Wrote:  

Older women don't love with their entire being the way a teenage virgin does.

Respectfully disagree with this. Fully grown women have been head over heels with me and acted exactly like teenage girls

[AboveAverageJoe]

(09-09-2016 09:35 AM)TMK Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 09:31 AM)AboveAverageJoe Wrote:  

Older women don't love with their entire being the way a teenage virgin does.

Respectfully disagree with this. Fully grown women have been head over heels with me and acted exactly like teenage girls

That might be your experience, however I am still correct.

[churros]

(07-02-2015 01:52 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

At your age, if you found an exceptional girl, especially in America, I wouldn't be so quick to toss her aside. Especially if you've built something meaningful and you plan to be married and have a family at some point.

Keep in mind that your desire for new pussy is insatiable. It's a hamster wheel that leads nowhere. So you will sleep with many new random girls whose names you won't remember in a year. Whatever pleasure you get from one night stands is fleeting. Not much different from an addict looking for another hit. And then another, and another. How long do you want to be on that hamster wheel?

If you truly feel like your girl isn't right for and she's not the one, then do what you gotta do. But if the only reason you're walking away is because of the lure of new pussy just keep in mind that that's an endless rabbit hole that can never be satiated. And in the long run you are ruining your ability to pair bond with any good woman you happen to meet.

Bump for one of the best posts on the forum.

[Vaun]

I fell just as hard recently for a girl at 41, as I did when I was in my 20's. And just went through a break up as hard as then as well. I disagree the feelings diminish. It didn't for me this time. I also take care of myself, eat, sleep, weight, high testosterone, I think I am firing on all cylinders.

What blocked my ability to pair bond in this case, was that I kept gaming and banging after her and I became exclusive. She found out. I tried to keep it together. She turned sour, we broke up. I am not a "keep two in the kitty" guy, I am into honesty. Call me old fashioned. Whats the point if you are lying. If I tell a girl I am exclusive, I have meant it. Except in this case. After almost 1000 approaches in the last 5 years, and lots of women, I could not stop the player mindset when this one came along. Was she a bitch when I met her? Probably. Did she become even more of one when I tried to recover the bond, you bet she did. I wondered if I could still pair bond after being a player in a large city, for a long time. I think I can, if I live by my core values, and I am completely honest with her.

In this case, if you are not crazy about her, she may not be doing it for you. It could have been why I blew up my recent LTR, with my 8. I think there are a lot of good girls in the US, by todays standards. Do hot girls have beta orbiters, yes. Can you deal with that? Thats up to you and her. Do they have the potential to cheat? They all do. But how you handle it can dictate your success. If youre not crazy about this one, whats going on specifically with her that you dont like? Back up and look at that first, and dont blow it up, but take your time and use this to learn about yourself while you are in it.

[Robert Plant]

I made the mistake of marrying a girl who was on paper seemed perfect. Twelve years later we got divorced. For a super LTR, the girl should objectively have great attributes (sweet, pretty, sexual, loyal etc) however you should also feel passionate about her and you should know her for a long time (1.5- 3 years) before you commit to marriage or living together. In my case my ex-wife sensed throughout the entire marriage that I was not truly in love with her. As you can imagine this led to all kinds of drama even though I did my best to fake it. Now I am in a relationship in which we are both passionate about each other and it's like night and day compared to my marriage.

[birthday cat]

This thread has a lot of great posts.

Perhaps Moto can give us an update.

Regarding the title "Losing my own ability to pair-bond" - my opinion is that men can lose their ability to pair-bond (at least temporarily) when they bang too many girls.

I don't think high notch counts do as much damage to men as women but I think there is some damage and the amount of damage varies for different men.

What do you guys think?

[Moto]

I am still with her. A couple months ago we did have a brief split-up. I referenced it in another thread, as I was considering Thailand or Cambodia as my next destination. For a while I was pretty stoic about it, and relishing the freedom and not being suffocated. This coincided with me returning to the US for the holidays, then going to the beach. However I experienced plenty of shittiness and flakiness going after other girls, few of whom could compare in attractiveness. I only really chased other girls for a few days, at the beach, and realized soon that being back in the meat market wasn't so great. I came close enough to getting with some hot girls that I knew I could do it, though I had a lot of rust and cobwebs in my approach and seduction game, but also became more cognizant of the shallowness and pointlessness of notch-chasing these hoes, especially knowing I had a good, and hotter, girl who was waiting and wanted to get back together.

When we did see each other again in person, it was pretty emotional and I had stronger feelings than I had felt for her before. It's hard to quantify that and compare to other girls at other times though. I haven't updated this thread because there isn't that much to say. Settling down and starting a family with her is very much within the realm of possibility for me now, but still I haven't pulled the trigger on that and not sure if I'm ready to yet.

It took that split-up to realize what I had and appreciate it, and get those feelz, but after a few weeks it kinda goes back a bit. Even though it's kind of a limbo, I don't feel it as time lost even if we do break up again for good. Having this stability the past couple years has allowed to me grow professionally and personally by redirecting the energy that would otherwise be spent chasing tail. I have developed relationship game, and ironically I think the fact that I'm more in control of my feelings than they are of me, has enabled me to maintain hand and frame in the relationship even if she feels I'm too cold at times. Cold as I am, she wanted me back even when she had countless suitors and orbiters banging down her door.

[McCarthy]

(02-05-2017 03:09 PM)birthday cat Wrote:  

This thread has a lot of great posts.

Perhaps Moto can give us an update.

Regarding the title "Losing my own ability to pair-bond" - my opinion is that men can lose their ability to pair-bond (at least temporarily) when they bang too many girls.

I don't think high notch counts do as much damage to men as women but I think there is some damage and the amount of damage varies for different men.

What do you guys think?

I’m totally dettached from women, other than hookups.
I feel betrayed, they broke the social contract.

What is the point of a LTR besides beating loneliness?

I really value my alone time, also.

[rockoman]

@ Moto

You are only 28. The game is just getting started as you yourself wondered. If you handle your life right - money, status,physique etc. , then your SMV will continue rising for at least 20 years and your options will constantly be increasing. Think of all those hundreds of millions of women out there in our global sexual marketplace.

You didn't mention how old your girl is. This is critical to determining what the female imperative is whispering in her ear right now. If she's about your age then obviously it's nearing lockdown time.

She accuses you of being 'so cold'. It sounds like the psychological guerilla warfare typical of so many LTRs has started already. Remember, women want men to be open and honest about their feelings for the same reason the tax authorities want you to be open and honest about your finances.

You should always trust your gut instinct. If you are coming to a forum like this for opinions, then your gut instinct is warning you off her - as an LTR.

Best of luck.