[MikeinMKE]

Bill Maher dropped a line the other night that I think is pretty profound. When commenting on how far over the top the PC police have gone lately, he observed that "gay has become the new straight".

As somebody who would be considered "socially progressive" on this forum, and who fully supports gay marriage, I'm honestly stunned at how quickly the social justice movement has swung behind the cause of normalizing transgenders.

No hemming or hawing, no delays, just straight up - "IF YOU DON'T APPLAUD BRUCE JENNER'S COURAGE YOU'RE A TRANSPHOBIC BIGOT AND MAY AS WELL JOIN THE KLAN"

I'm starting to think that some of the conservatives who I mocked and and felt superior to because of their "Where will it end?" argument may have had a point....

[CleanSlate]

(06-16-2015 08:51 AM)MikeinMKE Wrote:  

I'm starting to think that some of the conservatives who I mocked and and felt superior to because of their "Where will it end?" argument may have had a point....

I have mocked conservatives the same way, and now I agree they may have had a point.

Just when I think the trend has peaked and expect the pendulum to swing back the other way, it keeps going in the same direction.

[ryanf]

Here's the difference I see now versus a few years ago: a few years ago, ultra conservatives came out against gay marriage and were crucified for it, and that was that. Now, when a moderate conservative doesn't applaud an issue, they still get crucified, but you start to see backlash from the rest of the conservatives about his/her right to their opinion. It's almost as if the debate on acceptance vs support has opened up. Based on this, I would say the pendulum has reached the max swing, and you start to see it teetering. The new wave "progressives" may have overstepped the bounds now. We'll see in the coming months how the mainstream conservatives start pushing back.

[freeuser]

I don´t think the Pendulum will swing back any time soon. I´m actually asking myself what the new frontier will be. Pedophilia, like some Forum members have suggested? Bestiality? Necrophilia? How long will it take? 10 years? A generation? Two generations?

Believe me, the more shit like the Jenner Vanity Fair cover I see and how easy it is swallowed up by the mainstream, the more pessimistic I get.

[Kristoph]

It just goes to show that a slippery slope argument isn't a fallacy by definition. A certain sect of progressives will always be looking for the next downtrodden minority to champion. An unwavering belief in their own moral superiority, and the massive dopamine rush that accompanies a sense of righteous indignation, is their modus operandi. The narrative defines them, and the show must go on.

You can see the logic in their thinking, you can understand the desire to be a champion of the oppressed. A couple in love who just happen to be of the same gender, or a man who happens to identify more with the feminine than the masculine, can't walk the streets without being abused or harassed, despite not doing anyone else any immediate harm? What kind of monster could want that?

Some progressives let this attitude infect their whole worldview. Minorities can never be wrong. Privilege is always bad and the more you have the less your opinion is worth. Check out a recent RoK article which features among other things a white Swedish woman arguing for the mutilation of young girls in her country, because minorities do it and it cannot be wrong. It's the same attitude and impulse that tells us that trannies MUST be respected and encouraged.

That's why it's a slippery slope, because these people NEED a cause. They need to find or even invent new ways to be oppressed at least new oppressed to stand up for. They're addicts, drunk on their cultural victories of the last few decades.

Next up after trannies is polygamists. Some people will tell you it'll be paedophiles but I don't buy it; this cult relies on young women to be it's 'useful idiots' and I can't see them getting behind the idea of old men touching up girls*. It's literally so creepy I can't even.

*Female paedos though, yeah. I can see a push for it to be made legal for adult women to have sex with children happening for SURE.

[Sherman]

The mentally ill have been given power to rule over us. That is the new normal.

[Tex Pro]

(06-16-2015 09:48 AM)freeuser Wrote:  

I don´t think the Pendulum will swing back any time soon. I´m actually asking myself what the new frontier will be. Pedophilia, like some Forum members have suggested? Bestiality? Necrophilia? How long will it take? 10 years? A generation? Two generations?

Believe me, the more shit like the Jenner Vanity Fair cover I see and how easy it is swallowed up by the mainstream, the more pessimistic I get.

Yep, there is no limit to the crazy ideas the left will come up with. It won't stop until there is complete cultural collapse.

[Aenigmarius]

Quote:

Kristoph

Solid post, on the nose.

[Legendver2]

Tbh, this feels more like a fad or trend than anything. Like how couple years ago, it was all the rage for celebrities to adopt some kid from a third world country. EVERYONE was doing that, for social status, to show that you're "in" by taking up some poor old third world kid into your luxurious lifestyle. This just feels similar to me. All of a sudden you got a bunch of celebs "coming out" as lesbian (notice it's mostly the females that do this type of thing, like adopting poor kids and coming out). Now we don't hear of celebs adopting kids from poor countries as much anymore; they're probably still doing it, but it's old news, and it's not gonna make the front cover of any gossip magazine anymore. I'd imagine in a few years (at least I HOPE it would go this way) that this "trend" will die down, and all the attention-whore-female-celebs that "came out" will go back to a man.

Of course, there IS also the possibility as THIS trend dies, a new, more progressive one will take it's place, so it's in a constant state of trying to one-up the previous progressive acceptance "movement"

[manly5000]

I think at this point the pendulum has broken off of the clock, crashed through the plate glass window in the living room, landed on the lawn and burst into flames. It ain't coming back 'round and we need a whole new clock.

[SunW]

(06-16-2015 08:54 AM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

(06-16-2015 08:51 AM)MikeinMKE Wrote:  

I'm starting to think that some of the conservatives who I mocked and and felt superior to because of their "Where will it end?" argument may have had a point....

I have mocked conservatives the same way, and now I agree they may have had a point.

Just when I think the trend has peaked and expect the pendulum to swing back the other way, it keeps going in the same direction.

I was that conservative and used to say that once you open the door to things like gay acceptance, you won't be able to stop everything else because they'll push it with the same rationality.

You know what liberals said? That's a slippery slope fallacy. That's true, except that history is full of slippery slopes before collapses and reality doesn't give two shits about logic - what happens, happens regardless of whether it's a fallacy or not (also saying something is not true or won't happen because it's a fallacy is itself a fallacy - ad logicam).

[MrLemon]

The pendulum will swing back once we hit another bad economic times.

Then we will all be suject to the Will of Landru

Once you have 10 million unemployed men rioting in the streets and burning entire towns, and you see the rich people fleeing to their bunkers in New Zealand...

That's when the Mormons take over. In the USA the Mormon church is locked and loaded and ready to take over. They've been prepping for decades. It's literally part of their church doctrine.

The Mormons then will start pushing the pendulum back. Then 10-15 years later, we see a society where women wear veils and men wear identical black suits. Gays are "reeducated". Feminists are chased out of town and live in shanties. The internet is entirely censored. Men are once again forced to get married to have sex of any kind.

Landru. Landru is coming for us. We must be "of the body of Landru". (Wailing noises in distance)

[Sonsowey]

I am in the same boat, I recently have gone from socially left to right by just not changing my opinions with the times. Anyone who stands still will have the same thing happen to them.

[QuietDog]

As someone who is also fairly progressive I'm often taken aback by some of the outrage I get when I don't support the SJWs latest pet project just because I'm pro-gay marriage. I just find it baffling that so many people look at the two issues as if they are equivalent. One is about people having the right to feel attracted to whoever they want without fear of persecution and I'm totally behind it (if banging other dudes makes you happy I don't really care one way or the other). But the other is a legitimate mental illness where people, despite the fact they were physically born one gender, think that they are another. That is pretty plainly delusional.

I think one of the biggest reasons for their association is just because at some point in the past some numbskull decided to add the T to the LGB flagship. I feel like because of this a lot of gays feel like they have to support the transgender movement. I think that once gay marriage is completely legalized (definitely gonna happen) a lot more gay people will withdraw their support of the trannies. I personally know a couple of gay guys who are not fans at all of the whole Bruce Jenner spectacle but are uncomfortable voicing that opinion from fear of what some of the people in their community would think.

[sixsix]

(06-16-2015 01:19 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

I am in the same boat, I recently have gone from socially left to right by just not changing my opinions with the times. Anyone who stands still will have the same thing happen to them.

Crazy times we live in.

[Captainstabbin]

The next step is definitely pedophilia. Homosexuality and pedophilia are hand in hand. Just look at the thread about the kid twerking.

You see a lot of articles coming out of Canada calling pedophilia just another sexual orientation - wrapping it in language of normalcy. And the LGBT freaks were the major source of criticism of Canada's recent age of consent law...they wanted an exemption to lower the age of consent for anal sex.

[Sonsowey]

(06-16-2015 01:37 PM)QuietDog Wrote:  

As someone who is also fairly progressive I'm often taken aback by some of the outrage I get when I don't support the SJWs latest pet project just because I'm pro-gay marriage. I just find it baffling that so many people look at the two issues as if they are equivalent. One is about people having the right to feel attracted to whoever they want without fear of persecution and I'm totally behind it (if banging other dudes makes you happy I don't really care one way or the other). But the other is a legitimate mental illness where people, despite the fact they were physically born one gender, think that they are another. That is pretty plainly delusional.

People used to think homosexuality was a mental illness. Many people throughout the world today are still "treated" for homosexuality with an eye to cure it.

If you are on the younger side, most likely your whole life you have been taught that homosexuality is not a mental illness, people are born that way, and it's fine.

Now transgendered people are viewed as "mentally ill" by some, but by others they are seen as just "born that way".

As time goes on more and more children will be taught that being transgendered is just as "natural" as being homosexual, which of course is already assumed by you to be perfectly natural.

Peoples' opinions on this are just reflective of the messages they've been told their whole lives by school, media, government, and social groups influenced by the school, media, and government.

So you, if you don't change your mind about transgendered people being mentally ill, are basically a "bigot" by today's standards. You must constantly swallow the new lies and earnestly believe them, otherwise you cannot be a liberal in good standing.

I'm sure if you do cling to an independent notion of reality, you will be "right wing" in no more than a few years.

[Captainstabbin]

(06-16-2015 01:39 PM)sixsix Wrote:  

(06-16-2015 01:19 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

I am in the same boat, I recently have gone from socially left to right by just not changing my opinions with the times. Anyone who stands still will have the same thing happen to them.

Crazy times we live in.

I get what he's saying, but the radicals 60 years ago (and liberals 30) never really believed in equality - that was never the endgame, and their writings prove it. But they had to wrap their agenda in fair-sounding language to get most people to buy in.

[TigerMandingo]

At first I thought this forum exaggerated the whole "this is only the beginning" of gay acceptance thing. Then the other day while I'm visiting my family I notice my little sister is watching a show on TV. I asked her what show it is and she goes, "Oh, it's this show about foster kids who are adopted by a lesbian couple" My fucking jaw dropped. Apparently, this is The Fosters on ABC Family. It revolved around a loving interracial lesbian couple who adopt a bunch of kids.



I go to my mom and say, "Do you realize what she is watching?" And she says, "Yea, it's a good show, I watch it too sometimes."........

[QuietDog]

(06-16-2015 01:55 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

(06-16-2015 01:37 PM)QuietDog Wrote:  

As someone who is also fairly progressive I'm often taken aback by some of the outrage I get when I don't support the SJWs latest pet project just because I'm pro-gay marriage. I just find it baffling that so many people look at the two issues as if they are equivalent. One is about people having the right to feel attracted to whoever they want without fear of persecution and I'm totally behind it (if banging other dudes makes you happy I don't really care one way or the other). But the other is a legitimate mental illness where people, despite the fact they were physically born one gender, think that they are another. That is pretty plainly delusional.

People used to think homosexuality was a mental illness. Many people throughout the world today are still "treated" for homosexuality with an eye to cure it.

If you are on the younger side, most likely your whole life you have been taught that homosexuality is not a mental illness, people are born that way, and it's fine.

Now transgendered people are viewed as "mentally ill" by some, but by others they are seen as just "born that way".

As time goes on more and more children will be taught that being transgendered is just as "natural" as being homosexual, which of course is already assumed by you to be perfectly natural.

Peoples' opinions on this are just reflective of the messages they've been told their whole lives by school, media, government, and social groups influenced by the school, media, and government.

So you, if you don't change your mind about transgendered people being mentally ill, are basically a "bigot" by today's standards. You must constantly swallow the new lies and earnestly believe them, otherwise you cannot be a liberal in good standing.

I'm sure if you do cling to an independent notion of reality, you will be "right wing" in no more than a few years.

Technically I suppose I would classify homosexuality as a type of mental illness as well, clearly it serves no evolutionary purpose so it definitely isn't 'natural'. But it does appear as if it is something that is with a person from birth or results from how they were raised (or a traumatic event like molestation, a fact the left really hates), they're not really choosing to be gay. And even if it was something that was curable I don't know why we should try and do that since I don't think their 'illness' is hurting themselves or others.

With transgenders on the other hand, it seems to me to be a case of people who are having trouble accepting who they are or for whatever reason are unhappy and have convinced themselves its because they were born into the wrong body. They think if they just change their hardware they will be happy, I would say this definitely isn't true, I remember reading somewhere that the suicide rate for them are 10 times higher than normal after the procedure. You're right that the media plays a role in all of this and I have a huge issue with the lionization of trannies right now. Bruce Jenner ain't a hero, he's sick. And I think now it will just lead to more unhappy people thinking this is their solution instead of truly facing their issues, to their own detriment. I would bet with the way so many men are feeling emasculated and miserable these days a lot more will start turning to this instead of embracing their own masculinity. I predict a huge rise in the number of people wanting to go through with these ridiculous surgeries.

I don't really classify myself as left or right, reality is what I'm interested in and I don't think either side of the political spectrum has a monopoly on the truth.

[dads]

The battle is already lost gentlemen. Interesting note from Chuck Klosterman's "I Wear The Black Hat":

Quote:

“Everyone knows history is written by the winners, but that cliché misses a crucial detail: Over time, the winners are always the progressives. Conservatism can only win in the short term, because society cannot stop evolving (and social evolution inevitably dovetails with the agenda of those who see change as an abstract positive). It might take seventy years, but it always happens eventually. Serious historians are, almost without exception, self-styled progressives.”

Excerpt From: Chuck Klosterman. “I Wear the Black Hat: Grappling With Villains (Real and Imagined).” iBooks.

[Yatagan]

(06-16-2015 10:51 PM)dads Wrote:  

The battle is already lost gentlemen. Interesting note from Chuck Klosterman's "I Wear The Black Hat":

Quote:

“Everyone knows history is written by the winners, but that cliché misses a crucial detail: Over time, the winners are always the progressives. Conservatism can only win in the short term, because society cannot stop evolving (and social evolution inevitably dovetails with the agenda of those who see change as an abstract positive). It might take seventy years, but it always happens eventually. Serious historians are, almost without exception, self-styled progressives.”

Excerpt From: Chuck Klosterman. “I Wear the Black Hat: Grappling With Villains (Real and Imagined).” iBooks.

He's right, in the sense that conservatives are merely liberals whom are a few years behind the times. Their very nature is to hold ground(unlike the left that takes it) and act as a last minute speed bump before surrendering and acting like they never opposed what the left was after.

Just look at what happened with the whole gay marriage thing, instead of pulling out stat after stat of gay promiscuity/lack of monogamy, STD rates or airing footage of gay depravity in events like the folsom street fair, their message was essentially "gays shouldn't marry because..... gays shouldn't marry". Is it any wonder why the left won that?

It's the same problem with the "moderates" (in actuality appeasers) in gamergate whom don't know what they're dealing with and think they'll win by acting "noble"(said nobility is something nobody but them cares about), instead of jumping in the mud and swinging like they should.

[Sherman]

(06-16-2015 10:51 PM)dads Wrote:  

The battle is already lost gentlemen. Interesting note from Chuck Klosterman's "I Wear The Black Hat":

Quote:

“Everyone knows history is written by the winners, but that cliché misses a crucial detail: Over time, the winners are always the progressives. Conservatism can only win in the short term, because society cannot stop evolving (and social evolution inevitably dovetails with the agenda of those who see change as an abstract positive). It might take seventy years, but it always happens eventually. Serious historians are, almost without exception, self-styled progressives.”

Excerpt From: Chuck Klosterman. “I Wear the Black Hat: Grappling With Villains (Real and Imagined).” iBooks.

Keep in mind that the word "progress" in "progressive" is just a marketing ploy and way of framing the debate to their advantage. Building a civilization over the course of a thousand years was progress. The left are destroyers, not builders. Maybe they should be called "destructives".

[ColSpanker]

I may still have that Chuck Klostermann book. I tried reading it because I liked some of his "Fargo Rock City" material, but I guess he's gone over to the Dark Side.

[Aurini]

(06-16-2015 12:55 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  

The pendulum will swing back once we hit another bad economic times.

Then we will all be suject to the Will of Landru

Once you have 10 million unemployed men rioting in the streets and burning entire towns, and you see the rich people fleeing to their bunkers in New Zealand...

That's when the Mormons take over. In the USA the Mormon church is locked and loaded and ready to take over. They've been prepping for decades. It's literally part of their church doctrine.

The Mormons then will start pushing the pendulum back. Then 10-15 years later, we see a society where women wear veils and men wear identical black suits. Gays are "reeducated". Feminists are chased out of town and live in shanties. The internet is entirely censored. Men are once again forced to get married to have sex of any kind.

Landru. Landru is coming for us. We must be "of the body of Landru". (Wailing noises in distance)

This is one of my big worries, more or less; 'corrections' are never nice, and they tend to over-correct in the right direction. To put things in my simple, Catholic understanding of the world, homosexuality is a sin of lust, while gay hatred is a sin of pride; one of the two is far, far worse.

Mimicking Mohammedan manners is unfit for the sons of Europe, but that might just be what it comes to. Soon enough, any man who stands for decency will have enemies on both sides of the political spectrum.