[samsamsam]

A lot of you forget many states in the interior South and Midwest get a lot of Federal aid. Other states help those states.

Granted survival in the future may not be about food stamps, but hunting, etc.

But many people seem to think other states are the problems when it come finances.

http://taxfoundation.org/blog/which-stat...ederal-aid


I can't find the chart I have seen before, but this gives some idea of what I am discussing.

[Cattle Rustler]

This interactive map breaks down 'muricans poverty level by county.

http://www.socialexplorer.com/c0213d14ea/view

This one breaks it down by political allegiance.....mississippi and Alamaba do not really have large urban settings for democrats to depend upon.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011...harts-maps

[CodyB]

One reason for the collapse of the Society Union is that the people who had all the power had a lot to gain if the USSR ceased to exist. Look at Russia's richest people and check their connection to the USSR, most were in the government. It's not the sole reason but it probably plays a bigger role than people give credit for.

Compare it to America, where the key stakeholders of modern America are corporations. If America collapses, nobody makes money. Corporations will crumble as they will never find another host quite like America. China will fail because a key facet to their growth plan is American consumerism and Europe will buckle to underlying tensions and fall into depression.

I think that in the long term, America is going to be propped up 'weekend at bernies' style. You'll have corporations on one side and the president on the other side walking around boasting about how the corpse of America's economy is doing so well. You can only do that for so long though.

[Tex Pro]

The biggest problem the USA faces regarding a collapse is not federal aid or regional problems, but racial ones.

Once things get bad, there is going to be a lot of unrest. I mean, think about it: What is an American? There are no bonds of blood or ethnicity for Americans, and once the going gets tough, people are going to fall back on the old ways. In some ways, you can already see this unraveling happening in regards to the protests and riots over policing black neighborhoods. Now imagine that times 100 and you will get some idea of the problems that face the USA in the future.

[Travesty]

^ Cody has it right.

As long as America proves to be a good home base for corporations with strong lobbies and citizens that will never march on Washington D.C. as long as they have enough cheap entertainment, America will be propped up. It is just too good to be true. We are like a 10 on call for them that comes over cooks a meal, gets jizzed in the ear, and spanked on the ass walking out the door without so much as a thank you. Corporate share owners couldn't ask for a better relationship with a country.

America turning into a Get Yours society is perfect for them, that is exactly what they want. If you have no sense belonging to anything but yourself, most likely you are the perfect materialist consumer that feels connection off cheap entertainment (this includes nightlife).

Just like the interest rate level staying near zero for how many years now, with debt blowing up and no one cares? They have crafted this environment perfectly by eroding the middle class as such a rate that is just slow enough people are doubling down on old strategies (high education, student loans, toiling for corporations when their job is expendable) rather than saying fuck the system altogether.

The day they panic is a day people renounce being a Democrat or Republican and instead support a 3rd party that looks to get rid of lobbying, endless campaign contributions, and treating a corporation as a person.

[Tex Pro]

(06-14-2015 10:06 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  

^ Cody has it right.

As long as America proves to be a good home base for corporations with strong lobbies and citizens that will never march on Washington D.C. as long as they have enough cheap entertainment, America will be propped up.

America turning into a Get Yours society is perfect for them, that is exactly what they want. If you have no sense belonging to anything but yourself, most likely you are the perfect materialist consumer that feels connection off cheap entertainment (this includes nightlife).

Just like the interest rate level staying near zero for how many years now, with debt blowing up and no one cares? They have crafted this environment perfectly by eroding the middle class as such a rate people are doubling down on old strategies rather than saying fuck the system.

How sustainable is this though?

This assumes that the dollar will continue to be a reserve currency and that the rest of the world will continue to prop up the USA. A big assumption considering what the Chinese, Russians, Brazilians, Indians, etc are doing.

[Samseau]

If the people in power continue to milk the country dry, i.e. the left, then we're going to be left with a real Mad-Max type world. I don't expect to see a Soviet style collapse because the Soviet currency had a competitor - the USA. Who competes with the USA's currency? No one. Only country even capable of stepping up to the plate is China, but the Communists keep their currency devalued x6 so they can maintain their slave empire. Unless the Chinese revolt, America isn't going to go bankrupt very soon it seems.

Meanwhile, big businesses have gamed the election cycles to enrich themselves at the expense of the public. Free trade agreements are anything but free, as US companies must comply with insane regulations while foreign governments do not. Also foreign companies can devalue their currency against the dollar, screw their own people over in order to make sure they are enslaved forever while keeping US workers in the unemployment line. Our "American" businesses are more than happy to exploit this unfair system by keeping the shit laws in place for their own gain.

At this point it's fucked up beyond repair, and nothing can fix the system without a complete overhaul. But when you consider the average "American" is so stupid they vote for guys like Clinton, Bush, and Obama, what kind of revolution would come out of this? Let's face the grim reality: the average American is either too clueless, apathetic, or selfish to actually form political groups in self-interest.

So now we have a very dangerous situation: the 10-20% of remaining politically minded citizens realize they are on their own. At some point this country is going bankrupt, we all know that. When the day comes, these politically minded citizens are going to take shit into their own hands and feed on the 80% of dumb masses in order to survive. I expect to see militias, gangs, and city-states form across the USA. Things that will return to Western Civilization once forgotten:

- Slavery, especially sex slavery (the women aren't viable for marriages and men need to reproduce somehow)
- Looting and pillaging
- Local farms and food sources
- Military education for nearly all males
- Extremely intense racism
- Autocratic rule by military elites
- Complete breakdown of trade

By the end of the century, the West is returning to the Second Dark Age. Islam will rule Europe, Anarchy will rule America. China and Russia: ??? Africa: Probably some mega-warlord will own the whole continent.

If the Bible is any guide, it will happen in the next 5-25 years. The ten commandments say God's wrath is visited upon the 3rd and 4th generations of those who forsake him, which were the Baby Boomers who rejected their parents, God, and indulged in every sin imaginable. Boomers are 1940-1965ish, so add 60-80 years (3-4 generations) and you get 2020-2045.

[Easy E]

All I know is the Chinese are buying and building tons of weapon systems for a reason...and it ain't for show.

Something big is going down in the next couple of decades.

[lskdfjldsf]

If I had a nickel every time someone said the world is going to end....

[ElBorrachoInfamoso]

Of course the US government will collapse eventually. I give it an 80% chance of happening in my lifetime with huge uncertainties around that 80%.

Western governments will collapse under the weight of their unfunded liabilities. We still have a couple of decades before those start to create a severe cash flow issue. Taxes, inflation and breaking promises will help us get through the initial cash crunch but our political system is set up to incentivize politicians to keep kicking the can so they will only delay the inevitable. The US is actually in a much better position to weather the storm than most other Western governments.

[Kitsune]

The collapse is happening.

(I think) Quintus said earlier in the thread that the collapse will happen slowly. He's completely correct, except that it's already happening.

Remember that it took 300 years for Rome to fall.

Do you think that a Roman in year 1 of that decline or year 154 saw the decline?

Back to today -

Is the cost of a potato going up or down over the past couple of years?
What about the cost of oil?
Is the demand for either of those rising or falling?
Is the supply for those compared to the demand going up or down?

People think of an economic collapse as a train wreck - you wake up tomorrow and suddenly there's Weimar-style hyperinflation, or there's literally bloodshed on the streets because there will be no more deliveries of bread.

That might happen. What's more likely though, that, or:

you will lose your job.

The people around you will lose their jobs as the economy constricts.

Food will get more expensive - imagine if the cost of food goes up by one percent every week for the next year - how much will that cost you?

Those things are more likely, and happen around the world every year.

Preparedness is arming yourself against being a frog waiting for the slow boil, not being GI Joe waiting for the hordes to steal your MRE's.

Your plan should be the same whether things get better or worse.

If there was no food to be delivered ever again, what would stop you from starving?
If there was no law to protect you, what would keep you alive?
If energy prices went up ten thousand percent, could you handle manual labour?

Those are just some general thoughts on the topic.

[Phoenix]

(06-15-2015 01:03 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Africa: Probably some mega-warlord will own the whole continent.

Lol I think they call those 'kings'. It'd only be south africa (region not country) though, north africa will be muslim. Frankly I think sub-saharan Africa might do well under a king, as presidents and democracy have had a pretty piss-poor record in that region.

[lskdfjldsf]

Quote:

If there was no food to be delivered ever again, what would stop you from starving?
If there was no law to protect you, what would keep you alive?
If energy prices went up ten thousand percent, could you handle manual labour?

A collapse will not be an overnight transformation into the Stone Ages. Put yourself in the shoes of a German man in 1919 - most of the men in your generation are killed or maimed on the battlefield, and the country suffers complete economic collapse and devaluation of currency. There's no political consensus, the country loses territory, and most domestic produce is shipped abroad as war reparations, while influenza and famine kill thousands.

That same country conquered Europe only 20 years later, an economic powerhouse with a revitalized sense of identity. Without a war on the mainland or an occupying military force cracking the whip, it's unlikely violence and famine will inflict a heavy death toll. Law and order are always established again quickly - and unlike other collapsed nations in history, the U.S. has a few advantages:

• Vast rural territory capable of sustaining populations (hunting, fishing, farming)
• Competent state governments with constitutions, legislatures, militaries, police forces, universities, and social programs.
• Culture of tight-knit local communities and charity
• Armed population capable of quelling violence, uprisings, and maintaining order.
• Virtually impossible to occupy by a foreign military force (land mass, weapons, nationalism)
• Modern technology & infrastructure capable of delivering goods/services across territory

With the benefits of the modern world taken into consideration (everything from vaccines to mass-produced MRE's), I believe life in a collapsed America today would be safer and less volatile than life in 1700's or 1800's America.

[RawGod]

Agree with Blick Mang. I'm amazed at the persistence of the idea in the US that things can easily devolve into marauding gangs raping around the countryside, and that people without stores of canned beans will starve. Look at real collapses, in the Soviet Union, Argentina, Mexico's violence. Even in tough times, the Mad Max scenario just doesn't happen.

[SunW]

To the person who claimed that Europe is preventing the US from collapsing. This shows how ignorant you are of what globalists want: they want a world in which everyone belongs to everyone else. Did you know that the US taxpayers during 08-09 bailed out European banks? If Europe goes, so does the US. Globalists want this type of a system.

China and Russia are the world powers, Americans are just ignoring the reality. Russia doesn't have the debt, is keeping its gold, and isn't backing down to the US. More than anything, this shows the new reality. Americans like to think they can go to war with both, but how? With what money? With what resources? Also, for those of you who haven't been paying attention, China did get involved with the US vs. Russia a while back, basically stating, "US mind your own business." China owns the US.

Which goes to the next point. If China has $2 trillion in US dollars, they can't let the dollar die, right? Wrong. They have billions ($600+) in Russia, they have billions in Brazil, Canada, even some of Europe. They also have been buying oil like crazy during the fall because they know that they'll need more of it. Finally, they don't disclose how much gold they own very often, but we can look at the amount of gold that Hong Kong has been importing and it's quite a lot. This is generally how the Chinese secretly buy gold.

Remember, Americans: you've been voting for Harvard idiots who think gold is a barbaric relic when it has a 6000+ history of credibility behind it (and the dollar has what?).

Is China backing down from its military island? No. They are not afraid of a contest with the US and I predict that they will win if it comes to that (hopefully it doesn't). What China wants, like Russia, is that the US simply declines like the UK did because it would be less dramatic and use fewer resources for everyone involved. This just means that Americans will be looking at much lower standards of living relative to China and Russia.

As for Russia's current economic crisis, this shows how little media understand reality. In reality, when a country, like Russia, is too dependent on a resource (like oil), they learn from the hard times that they should be less dependent on it. The result is new ideas and businesses that strengthen the country. Texans like to talk about how their state is so awesome, but they forget that they are doing well because of the painful lessons they learned in the 80s (they were too dependent on oil then). Pain leads to growth. What will people be saying about Russia in 30 years? Also, the media hate Russia because of Putin, who is one of the last politicians remaining who isn't a globalist playing the globalist's game.

How to be prepared:

1. The worst option, but better than what most are doing is to hold one full year's worth of expenses in gold. If you spend $20K a year, buy that much in gold. All this does is buy you time during a crisis to make other plans. This is not an ideal option because gold isn't a producing asset and once you exchange it, that's it.

2. Buy land and use it to produce assets. Think of something like livestock (living stocks). These assets produce; they provide food. Consider though that it can take a long time to be prepared with producing land. Apple trees don't immediately produce apples when you buy them, so the earlier you start, the better. You also want to make sure that your land is far away from any city where people could walk to it. No matter how many guns you own, you can't fight off 100,000 people. Basically, very few people should be able to make it to your land, and you should construct it where only someone familiar with it has the advantage in a contest (think of Vietnam vs. the US - the Vietnamese had tunnels to contest soldiers and used these to their advantage).

3. Buy physical storage units. This is the best, and requires that you've done number two. Basically, you have storage for water, the food that you've produced (that you can store), and any other necessary resources. This is the new savings/retirement plan. Put it this way: every dollar you buy water with is taxed, whereas all the rainwater you store and filter is untaxed. Add this up and over time, it becomes more obvious why producing your own assets is the new path to riches.

Added:

4. Store and print out valuable Wikipedia/resources pages for being self-reliant. These can be pages covering how to handle common medical issues, to various problems you can face when producing your own assets. The advantage of storing electronic information is that you can duplicate it easily and access it easily. The problem - EMPs. The benefit of paper is that it's immune to EMPs, but can easily be destroyed by water, fire, etc.

One of my greatest fears is that with all of the progress we as humans have made in the past fifty years, we'll let stupidity (all leftism) stand in the way of and lose all of this. Think about where we would be now if we hadn't lost all of the progress made in Greece/Rome? This is the biggest concern for humanity's future; we are literally letting losers stand in the way of future generations of humanity.

[TheWastelander]

(06-15-2015 07:00 AM)RawGod Wrote:  

Agree with Blick Mang. I'm amazed at the persistence of the idea in the US that things can easily devolve into marauding gangs raping around the countryside, and that people without stores of canned beans will starve. Look at real collapses, in the Soviet Union, Argentina, Mexico's violence. Even in tough times, the Mad Max scenario just doesn't happen.

Marauding gangs raping around the countryside would never happen. The cities, however, would see a lot more of that behavior.

[samsamsam]

(06-15-2015 06:55 AM)Blick Mang Wrote:  

Quote:

If there was no food to be delivered ever again, what would stop you from starving?
If there was no law to protect you, what would keep you alive?
If energy prices went up ten thousand percent, could you handle manual labour?

A collapse will not be an overnight transformation into the Stone Ages. Put yourself in the shoes of a German man in 1919 - most of the men in your generation are killed or maimed on the battlefield, and the country suffers complete economic collapse and devaluation of currency. There's no political consensus, the country loses territory, and most domestic produce is shipped abroad as war reparations, while influenza and famine kill thousands.

That same country conquered Europe only 20 years later, an economic powerhouse with a revitalized sense of identity.

I am joking here since I would hate to have anyone here take this the wrong way.

So all we would need is another Hitler and everything will be ok?

But I agree on unique attributes of the U.S. that you mentioned.

We also have educational videos like Red Dawn (original).

[Truth Teller]

I don't see the fall of the American empire being equivalent to the end of civilization. It's probably going to be closer to Germany at the end of World War I. We're getting there already, but we don't have as volatile of a political situation yet.

Things like this only end in one way: dictatorship. A charismatic dictator will take over, find a scapegoat, and repeal all of the "progressive, liberal" policies that SJWs and many Democrats love so much. Look at what Hitler did after Weimar. He outright banned (or otherwise eliminated) all of the progressive, liberal things, including the so-called "New Woman." He returned Germany to a very traditional system.

[Sherman]

It's impossible to predict what is going to happen and what form it will take. When I was growing up during the cold war, right-wing conservatives were convinced that the Russians were going to soften up the US culture and then attempt a land invasion. The movie "The Russians are Coming, the Russians are coming" was a comedy spoof on a real belief. A Christian minister, Billy James Hargis had a summer program at Colorado Springs to prepare young people for the Soviet invasion. A book was written "Rhythm, Riots, and Revolution" which identified how music was being used then to subvert the culture. I don't think people had a clue back how things would turn out - the US is taken over peacefully by communism and Russia becomes the land of conservatism and freedom. The Soviet invasion was just a wrong idea.

[germanico]

(06-15-2015 07:00 AM)RawGod Wrote:  

Look at real collapses, in the Soviet Union, Argentina, Mexico's violence. Even in tough times, the Mad Max scenario just doesn't happen.

[Sonsowey]

It is shocking to think back at just how "permanent" the Soviet Union looked, and how surprising its complete breakup was. The Soviet Union survived World War II, massive famines, and when it broke up did not really seem to be at its most "desperate" point, its history considered.

Nothing lasts forever, but I still doubt we'll se the U.S. Government collapse in the next few decades.

[Easy E]

(06-15-2015 02:46 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

It is shocking to think back at just how "permanent" the Soviet Union looked, and how surprising its complete breakup was. The Soviet Union survived World War II, massive famines, and when it broke up did not really seem to be at its most "desperate" point, its history considered.

Nothing lasts forever, but I still doubt we'll se the U.S. Government collapse in the next few decades.

Don't be so sure about the US Government.

Its foundation is build on sand. As soon as the dollar is not the world's only reserve currency, everything falls away. The massive borrowing and money printing by the USA ends, and with it American military, political and economic dominance.

Like I said, there is a reason China is building a large "blue water" navy, and it ain't for show.

[SunW]

(06-15-2015 02:46 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

It is shocking to think back at just how "permanent" the Soviet Union looked, and how surprising its complete breakup was. The Soviet Union survived World War II, massive famines, and when it broke up did not really seem to be at its most "desperate" point, its history considered.

Nothing lasts forever, but I still doubt we'll se the U.S. Government collapse in the next few decades.

For those with an attention span and who like learning. Point being that while it seemed like a shock, there were some warning signs. I agree with you though that as someone who saw it in my lifetime, it was not something I expected. This is why Americans' attitudes about "it's no big deal" are so concerning; Americans have generally been hyper-paranoid about the end and it's that attitude that ended up helping them out.

Now, $17 trillion in debt (most Americans don't know how much a trillion is) and they're saying "No big deal, we'll make it" with a massive trade deficit while China is buying everything around the world, especially natural resources. The American fall will be a shock to the world because many in the world still are thinking in 70s-80s terms where everyone owed us money (we even lent money to the Soviet Union).

To put this in basic context: the US cannot afford what it's currently spending on - it is borrowing money to do so. What happens when it cannot borrow any more money (no one will lend)? We're going to magically cut expenses? What happens when the price of goods we import (remember, we have a trade deficit) rises to where we can't buy them? We're going to magically start creating them without any pain?

[Sonsowey]

(06-15-2015 02:55 PM)Easy E Wrote:  

(06-15-2015 02:46 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

It is shocking to think back at just how "permanent" the Soviet Union looked, and how surprising its complete breakup was. The Soviet Union survived World War II, massive famines, and when it broke up did not really seem to be at its most "desperate" point, its history considered.

Nothing lasts forever, but I still doubt we'll se the U.S. Government collapse in the next few decades.

Don't be so sure about the US Government.

Its foundation is build on sand. As soon as the dollar is not the world's only reserve currency, everything falls away. The massive borrowing and money printing by the USA ends, and with it American military, political and economic dominance.

The U.K. and Japan have their own currencies that are not the world's reserve currency, have more debt than the U.S. and are doing just fine without anything like hyperinflation.

Those fear are nonsensical. The countries that suffered from too much debt were Euro countries who did not have their own currencies. Advanced countries with a lot of debt have been doing fine despite naysayers' non stop doom prophecies.

[Easy E]

(06-15-2015 04:01 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

(06-15-2015 02:55 PM)Easy E Wrote:  

(06-15-2015 02:46 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

It is shocking to think back at just how "permanent" the Soviet Union looked, and how surprising its complete breakup was. The Soviet Union survived World War II, massive famines, and when it broke up did not really seem to be at its most "desperate" point, its history considered.

Nothing lasts forever, but I still doubt we'll se the U.S. Government collapse in the next few decades.

Don't be so sure about the US Government.

Its foundation is build on sand. As soon as the dollar is not the world's only reserve currency, everything falls away. The massive borrowing and money printing by the USA ends, and with it American military, political and economic dominance.

The U.K. and Japan have their own currencies that are not the world's reserve currency, have more debt than the U.S. and are doing just fine without anything like hyperinflation.

Those fear are nonsensical. The countries that suffered from too much debt were Euro countries who did not have their own currencies. Advanced countries with a lot of debt have been doing fine despite naysayers' non stop doom prophecies.

The UK's economy is built on a house of cards (the only thing they make money on anymore is finance) and Japan's economy has been stuck with sluggish growth for two decades now.

The UK and Japan are jokes. They are shadows of their former selves. They are 2nd rate nations that would be licking China's and Russia's boots if it weren't for the US military backing them.

The USA will not be able to spend the 1 trillion per year on defense when the dollar is no longer a reserve currency. What happens when world trade is controlled by the Chinese?

Again, China is building a blue water navy for a reason.