[speakeasy]

American companies aren't even trying to hide their flagrant abuse of the H1B visa program anymore. The point of the program is to fill voids for high demand jobs that they can't find Americans to do. But how can this be the case if they are making American workers train these HB1 guys from India in order to take over their jobs? I listened to a radio interview today with some of these programmers and the company made it a condition that they had to train the immigrants for 3 months to do their jobs in order to get severance pay which was equivalent to a year of work, and even though they were gutted, that's quite a chunk of money to walk away from, so they did it.

I'm so sick of these capitalist fuckheads that see this country only as an open marketplace to do business and make money, and not as an actual nation worthy of any type of social responsibility. Driving down wages is terrible for Americans and our economy, even though it may be great for stock prices in the short term. The Americans will spend all of the paycheck in America. The immigrants will send a healthy portion of that as remittances overseas rather than recycling all of it into the American economy. The larger American paycheck means a higher tax base, and higher level of consumption which means more people employed down the chain. It means people buying houses and starting families with stable jobs. I've heard stories about H1B programmers from India getting paid terrible money living 4 to an apartment.

I don't know if there will be any public backlash against this. I hope there is. Disney loves to project a wholesome, All-American image while firing its American employees to replace them with foreigners that they must train to do their jobs. Unfortunately it's not only Disney that does this, it's many tech companies. Google is lobbying hard for more H1Bs as well. These aren't exactly companies that are strapped for cash. Paying the going wage for an American programmer is hardly going to bankrupt these already corporations that already have profits in the billions.


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/us/las...ments.html

[netguy68]

Can't really reply in depth now, but I've seen this happen multiple times since 2000, and have on multiple occasions had to go in and fix the issues caused by these, quite frankly, incompetent replacements.

I'll try to reply tomorrow.

[Tuthmosis]

But "transgender issues" are more important!

[kaotic]

Hey now I know a few of these H1B boys who are bachelors and spend it all here.

Here's some irony:

A close male relative of mine (american indian citizen) - works in IT same company for decades - company cuts costs - notices go out - my relative has to train an Indian guy to replace him - gets laid off - outsourcing company isn't doing a good job - my relative has to translate and works with outsourcing company - company figures it's break even to hire my relative back - he retires - then begs him back - he refuses.

[philosophical_recovery]

It's almost like the government creates this perverse market incentive for companies to hire cheap slave labor where the employer will be able to get them deported at will, and the poor immigrant bastards are willing to do whatever it takes to stay in the states.

What could go wrong?

[Pestilence]

And they're not even hiring the top talent. Most of these Indians are the drones who go to some random engineering college. That's why the accent and language issues.
The top westernised talent these days stay in the country especially with the startup market booming. If they do go abroad it's usually for a top job not some random outsourcing job.

[It_is_my_time]

I have heard a few talking heads mention this over the last few years, but never much in depth about it. From what I had heard it was Zuckerberg and a few other very wealthy tech people pushing the Democrats hard for more H1B visa workers. And under Obama's presidency the number of H1B visa workers has increased greatly.

What I read on the Disney story was that Marco Rubio was behind this one as well. So the elites are paying off our elected officials, from both parties, but hire cheap immigrant highly skilled labor and kick American workers to the curb. I believe this is the first time it was on a large enough scale to really get anyone's attention. If this continues to increase, it needs to get the middle class to wake up.

It is hard to imagine the elites are THIS stupid and THIS short sighted.

[Tuthmosis]

(06-11-2015 12:43 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

I'm so sick of these capitalist fuckheads that see this country only as an open marketplace to do business and make money, and not as an actual nation worthy of any type of social responsibility. Driving down wages is terrible for Americans and our economy, even though it may be great for stock prices in the short term.

Greedy, capitalist non-producers are no better than the hoards of illegal immigrants who come here to extract money from our systems at any cost and send it to another country. In fact, I consider those greedy assholes much worse. You could conceivably argue that the reason El Salvador or wherever is in shitter is because the U.S. fucked with their political systems in the 70s and 80s--putting and keeping "U.S.-friendly," but insanely corrupt, assholes in place by force--and that's what led to civil war, poverty, crime, and migration north.

   
Note: This stops in 2009. The process has further accelerated since.

Many illegal immigrants also do some degree of actual work a lot of the time--clean, cook, and make things. Of course, they dilute the work force, and therefore drive down the price of an American man hour, which is why we should throw anyone who knowingly hires one to the lions. I would be for the absolute grisliest of horror-movie punishments for those people.

Meanwhile, bankers and other rich sociopaths are behind nearly every shitty thing you encounter in a given day.

For starters, they spend the greater part of their time just devising new ways to move numbers on a $30,000 software so they can steal money out of old people and Americans who actually work. If they can manipulate the market for one fraction of one second, they might make $500K that day. Or, they're lobbying for some concession that will enable them to fuck the long worn-out American financial pussy just a little bit more. They extract money in the millions and billions, not the hundred or thousands. They don't pay taxes because go fuck yourself: they want to make money off this country, but they want your dumb working-ass to pay for for paving it, policing it, lighting it, cleaning its water, and all the other shit. They pay maybe 15% on their capital gains, but you pay 42% on your 100K, which you delusionally think makes you a baller, but that barely pays the student loans you took out for that "STEM" degree you think is worth something and kinda covers your expenses. You don't own any property. A decent house in your city costs $2 million.

You maybe take home like 55K, after taxes and the $200 (per pay period) they take out for your somewhat-better-than-average PPO health plan. (Provided by some massive call-center-operated company owned by some other capitalist who lobbied Congress to keep everything nice and private and expensive, and then paid a PR firm to assemble a whisper campaign on how long the waits are for medical treatments in countries where they have socialized medicine. Make sure to use the word "socialized" because Americans are still afraid of communists, even though the Berlin Wall fell like 30 years ago, and they don't really know what that word means even though they went to four years of college. They think it's interchangeable with "fascist," and is just an insult for something one doesn't like.) Your rent is like $1250, but that's because you don't live alone, like the late 20s or early 30s grown man your dad was as this same age.

Instead, you live with some cockblocking bearded pussy you met on Craigslist, who stands with his feet together and talks with a lispy voice from all the pharmaceuticals in the water supply that other capitalists put there, and who's brainwashed by all the media that tells him he should enjoy taking a strap-on up the ass to be a real "progressive," bankrolled enthusiastically by some other greedy capitalist eager to keep the masses pliant. Make the men into pussies, make the women into raging sluts--who will, in turn, buy this new birth control device they crush up in their pussies that your company helped develop and will make you billions. That pussy torpedo might damage their minds (so they have to take other pharmaceuticals to quiet all the voices in their head), but you managed to lobby the FDA to push your approval through and you own both medications anyway.

   

These capitalists then spend that money on buying up more politicians and more companies so you don't realize that the money you spent on three different products or services that day all went to the same company. They're also, in a rich twist of irony, the very people demanding and lobbying for the conditions to bring illegal immigrants to this country. "Open everything up." Yeah, so they can forward your calls to Filipinos you can't understand no matter how much you turn up the volume on that "smartphone" that tracks your every movement, and who could give two shits about "the problem you're having with your card." Or, so they can give your once-good computer job to some thankful Indian for half the money, and pocket the rest (while you still haven't paid off the student loans you took out as an "investment in your future"). "Job creators" my ass.

Fuck you and your country and your great American heroes and your carousel-riding future wife and your children's future. This dude wants to keep his two giant $40,000/month condos in New York, and wants some black dude with white gloves and a little subservient hat driving his Rolls while he sits in the back and bangs the last two hot chicks left in your city--because the rest are fat from drinking sugar water from the very company he owns a controlling share in, that can legally say "no calories" on the label (because he lobbied for that), even though that shit is worse than drinking liquefied lard. And the chicks are too stupid to figure it all out because their brains are even more damaged than their outsides, from mindlessly tapping on their iPhones all day and going to shitty, overcrowded schools packed with the children of the illegal immigrants you lured here by lobbying for the legislation in the first place. Or these dumb chicks are the teachers themselves--banging the most athletic of the kids and teaching the rest nothing but how to talk with vocal fry and upspeak and how to be politically correct and how to be sluts like them.

Then guys like us stare at an idiot box that tells them that "the problem is the government" (a message you repeat on all the media you and your buddy have bought up to control the message in your interest) and these guys repeat it like automatons and, worse, legitimately believe they're thinking outside the box. You're not unplugged if you say the same thing I saw flashing on the screen during "Hannity" last night, nearly word for word. While you're over here holding up your sign or typing out your wall of text on the internet they own, they're busy fucking your girls, taking your money, and laughing at your STEM-educated unemployed-ass.

The government is these rich fucking capitalists. Obama is a mirage. Congress is the bouncer that helps the corporations skip the line. There is no "government," there are only multinational corporations.

But don't worry: the free hand of the market should fix this problem.

   

   

[Sooth]

They don't give a fuck.

I'm all for capitalism but it needs to be combined with conscience.

From one of my previous posts:

"Woow our new divorce and abortion 2 for 1 kit is selling like hot cakes! And look at the spike in anti depressant sales!"
"Also, John, we need to come up with an easy blister pack suicide pill, I heard that more people are getting into that suicide thing, God knows why... but can I get a proposal by Monday?"

[Glaucon]

Tuth you are triggering me...

[BlueOcean]

Tuth's post was right on.

In my opinion, America's govt is pretty much run by financiers, war profiteers, and cheap labor corporatists.
The whole system is designed to beat you down into a mindless consumer and a diligent worker bee. It completely
obliterates your sense of independence, individuality, and ability to think for yourself. As an average man, you're a cog
in a giant machine designed to enrich a few filthy rich businessmen and politicians.

[Wadsworth]

I love how you guys carry on as though there's an alternative. The most convincing defenses of the free(ish) market have more to do with the theoretical failures of the proposed alternatives (to say nothing about the empirical failures).

[It_is_my_time]

The real question is what power do these people hold over our elected officials. That is where the problem occurs. Year after year our elected officials pass more business regulations that crush and destroy the small and middle sized businesses, which will eventually reward the big corporations. But why.

The easy answer would be "to fund reelection campaigns". And I am sure this is part of it. But there seems to be something more sinister. The elites pushing for more and more power and control and being able to do it through our elected officials. But what makes our elected officials so beholden to them. I suppose it could simply be campaign financing, but it seems they have more power over our elected officials than just funding their campaigns.

[BlueOcean]

The decline of small business is another problem. In the past, you could make a good living by running a restaurant, hardware store, or grocery. Now a few companies
have monopolized these industries, forcing out the small businessman. The path to middle-class stability is harder when we have Walmart, McDonalds, Costco, and Krogers pushing out the small family-run establishments.

Want to start a coffee place? Good luck competing against Starbucks.
How about a sandwich shop? Well Subway owns that.

Competing against these major players is hard because their economies of scale give them purchasing power to negotiate lower prices with suppliers, which allows them to undercut the mom and pop business.

The independent entrepreneur used to be the backbone of the country. He ended up being squeezed out by these soulless mega-corporations.

I'm not saying there isn't a role for huge corporations. Obviously you need large corporations to manufacture jets or build cars. When it comes to simpler
services like making hamburgers or brewing coffee, I wouldn't mind seeing more mom and pop businesses. I suppose you could say that this would raise prices,
but at least there'd be more opportunities for middle-class entrepreneurship.

[Saweeep]

(06-11-2015 03:54 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

The real question is what power do these people hold over our elected officials. That is where the problem occurs. Year after year our elected officials pass more business regulations that crush and destroy the small and middle sized businesses, which will eventually reward the big corporations. But why.

The easy answer would be "to fund reelection campaigns". And I am sure this is part of it. But there seems to be something more sinister. The elites pushing for more and more power and control and being able to do it through our elected officials. But what makes our elected officials so beholden to them. I suppose it could simply be campaign financing, but it seems they have more power over our elected officials than just funding their campaigns.

Politicians are seduced by power and money.

They know their shelf lives are often short and need to feather their nests as soon and as substantially as possible.

I don't know how it works in the US but here you can be sure that after a successful term in office, most cabinet (top level govt) ministers will make a fortune as non exec directors of the big companies and even more visiting these companies giving ludicrously paid speeches.

It is always justified as "well, they have influence and know people hence the positions and salaries" when in reality it's more a reward for past services rendered.

Pigs in the trough.

[Saweeep]

(06-11-2015 04:30 AM)BlueOcean Wrote:  

When it comes to simpler
services like making hamburgers or brewing coffee, I wouldn't mind seeing more mom and pop businesses. I suppose you could say that this would raise prices,
but at least there'd be more opportunities for middle-class entrepreneurship.

The problem with that idea is that invariably some will be better at it than others.

Those that are better will probably want to take the American Dream a little further and open subsequent branches. Eventually, a new McDonalds will appear and begin to kill off the smaller competition.

This is similar to the "take all the money in the world and distribute it evenly...within a few generations it will be all back in the hands of a new 1%" theory.

[Phoenix]

It's rarely good business sense. You don't see the likes of Sony growing out of a policy of hiring 3rd world drones. Drones are only any good for highly repetitive, low-thought and low-communication work, where the managers give them crystal-clear operation manuals which they follow to the letter.

It's for this reason all the Australian call centers moved from Indian to the Philipines - they might be slightly more expensive, but they can actually speak English. (I also met a businessman who caught this wave; dude was living very comfortably).

You get what you pay for. Buy cheap and you'll get garbage you have to clean up later.

[Foolsgo1d]

The central government will never trust a foreigner fresh off the boat or with some history with a question mark over it when conducting background checks.

You should be worried when they start doing this.

[BlueOcean]

(06-11-2015 04:37 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

(06-11-2015 03:54 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

The real question is what power do these people hold over our elected officials. That is where the problem occurs. Year after year our elected officials pass more business regulations that crush and destroy the small and middle sized businesses, which will eventually reward the big corporations. But why.

The easy answer would be "to fund reelection campaigns". And I am sure this is part of it. But there seems to be something more sinister. The elites pushing for more and more power and control and being able to do it through our elected officials. But what makes our elected officials so beholden to them. I suppose it could simply be campaign financing, but it seems they have more power over our elected officials than just funding their campaigns.

Politicians are seduced by power and money.

They know their shelf lives are often short and need to feather their nests as soon and as substantially as possible.

I don't know how it works in the US but here you can be sure that after a successful term in office, most cabinet (top level govt) ministers will make a fortune as non exec directors of the big companies and even more visiting these companies giving ludicrously paid speeches.

It is always justified as "well, they have influence and know people hence the positions and salaries" when in reality it's more a reward for past services rendered.

Pigs in the trough.

It's exactly the same in America. Maybe even worse.

Our politicians retire, then become lobbyists and make obscene amounts of money. Or they give speeches.

Bill Clinton has made millions of dollars giving speeches since his retirement. As have many other politicians.

Our system is corrupt to the core, with the politicians taking bribes and being owned by wealthy business interests and financiers. I'd say probably even worse than the UK.

[BlueOcean]

(06-11-2015 04:40 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

(06-11-2015 04:30 AM)BlueOcean Wrote:  

When it comes to simpler
services like making hamburgers or brewing coffee, I wouldn't mind seeing more mom and pop businesses. I suppose you could say that this would raise prices,
but at least there'd be more opportunities for middle-class entrepreneurship.

The problem with that idea is that invariably some will be better at it than others.

Those that are better will probably want to take the American Dream a little further and open subsequent branches. Eventually, a new McDonalds will appear and begin to kill off the smaller competition.

This is similar to the "take all the money in the world and distribute it evenly...within a few generations it will be all back in the hands of a new 1%" theory.

I'd ideally like to see a highly fragmented market, with people supporting regional businesses. In the old days, every neighborhood would have a few small places supported by local people. Back then, there was more diversity in product offerings. Not this homogenization, where every city has the same Starbucks and McDonalds menu options.

I agree that's a tendency for one company to win and monopolize the market, which is why I believe in anti-trust laws.

[Phoenix]

^Anti-trust laws favour increased corruption, as the laws are shaped by lobbyists, of which bigger companies have more.

Microsoft didn't spend a single dollar on lobbying until the democratic machine went after them. Thereafter they were amply invested in it. There is nothing wrong with a 'monopoly' that customers choose.

[Dr. Howard]

(06-11-2015 05:52 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

^Anti-trust laws favour increased corruption, as the laws are shaped by lobbyists, of which bigger companies have more.

Microsoft didn't spend a single dollar on lobbying until the democratic machine went after them. Thereafter they were amply invested in it. There is nothing wrong with a 'monopoly' that customers choose.

Great post, a monopoly due to a market is one thing, but a monopoly due to false barriers to entry due to laws that are enacted and lobbied for by established businesses is another thing.

[Parlay44]

You get what you pay for.

[Days of Broken Arrows]

The only upside of this topic is that you can use it as a big "fuck you" to the SJW crowd.

That crowd was real quick to say "companies can do whatever they want" when Brendan Eich got fired from Mozilla for having a "wrong" opinion on gay marriage and when Vice pushed out Gavin McInnes for being politically correct.

Well, when you give that much power to companies, don't be surprised when they use it to screw you over in the end. They can fire you because they don't like your speech and they can fire you because they've found cheaper labor.

Had left wingers in this country stayed true to their '60s goals of fair labor practices, we'd still have strong unions and none of this would be happening. But the left degenerated into identity politics and now counts big victories as people losing jobs, not keeping them. Guess that's progress.

[Disco_Volante]

This is bad for the U.S., but worldwide you can't deny capitalism and trade has improved countries like China and India greatly.

If you are willing to move abroad to chase opportunities I don't think this is that big of a deal, just the reality that U.S. labor is more replaceable and you must adapt more to find decent work.

From 1950s to 1990s the U.S. was extremely successful, and normal people could attain a nice standard of living.....now everyone's expectations are still that high but the world has changed and it's much more difficult......human innovation has forced our hand. That's why the oil field is so great....it's one of the last well paying American manufacturing jobs.

You are delusional if you enjoy the benefits of air travel, next day delivery, and internet but you refuse to adapt when technology makes your workplace more competitive. There's a ying and yang to technology.