[almohajem]

(06-07-2015 03:54 AM)Nightwing Wrote:  

Almohajin,

The definition of submissive can vary by place, opinion, and time, but let me define submissive in the manosphere.

By submissive, we mean a woman who will love us unconditionally, will care for us when we need it, will cook us a warm and hearty meal when we get back from a hard day of work, and not say it's 'sexist' to cook. We want a woman who will take our opinion into consideration, actually listen to us when we speak, and not start a fight just for the sake of starting a fight. We can only dream that this woman will follow us to the ends of the Earth (I guess this saying doesn't really apply anymore because we have figured out that the Earth is round like a ball), but she must also be willing to please her man.

From what I get, these 'business trips' 9.5 submissives you are talking about, you probably mean the company entertainers who are paid to be secretaries/poon servers. They get paid very well to suck your cock, but it's all about their earnings. I'm sure if you offered them better incentives, they could be your personal poon secretaries too. We don't want these ones for marriage, though.

Again, we don't want a servant that turns over the tray, and waits on us when we talk submissive, we want a woman who cares for her famjam, and has an undying love for her husband.

Two different things.

Thanks for clarifying. I'm not from the west, and where I come from, women are expected just to do that. I have witnessed oppression on power-less women though. So I'm against oppression (or submission) doesn't matter what you name it. I have been with a girl which will tolerate violence, bad-behavior, bad-words which I found a bit suspicious.

[Ingocnito]

(05-30-2015 12:40 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Patrice O'Neal said that you need to teach your girl how to love you and take care of you.

That's all I got. So if she's amenable to leadership and your lessons, you're more likely to have the thing you want.

WIA

I agree with this. Also, if you want to know if it's an act early on.. apply this:

1) Does she start cooking a meal without "announcing" it. I.e. "Hey I'm going to cook us something blah blah blah.." making it seem like she's giving you options of what to eat. What she's doing is making a point to you she is doing something you benefit from, like filling up the value gas tank... it's an act.

2) If instead, she just starts cooking and you ask her "Whatcha makin babe?" << That's a different scenario, and that's how life should be. A smart woman already knows I need greens, meat, and light carbs after lifting, and it only takes me telling her once for it to register.

3) If she does a lot of chores seemingly right in front of you, it's intentional.

~ This can be applied to anything she does in the first 6-18 months. Does she make a verbal point of everything she's doing FOR YOU as she starts to do it or as she's doing it? If so, fuck her, and fuck that shit. If she complains as she does any of these tasks too, fuck her and fuck that.

Also, if she has difficulty integrating with the other family hens.. and it's not a natural blend, she's got guilt she can't hide towards one gender (get her alone around guys of family and girls of family and see how she acts), BEWARE.

Often the shadiest bitches are drawn to the most stable, close families. If her family seems shady but you think she isn't because she's able to describe how dysfunctional her own family is and she has thus since removed herself from their tumult... DON'T BELIEVE IT, SHE'S JUST LIKE THEM AND DISGUISING IT BY POINTING OUT her very own worst inbred flaw TO YOU to throw you off the scent of her lies and schemes.

[Beau]

(05-30-2015 11:56 AM)Engineer Wrote:  

Look at the books on her bookshelf and her browser history.

Live with her for a while, probably over a year.

Make sure she knows if it's an act or if she crosses a red line, you'll divorce her very quickly.

Before you even start looking for Mrs. CleanSlate, make a list of the things you need, want, would tolerate, and would not tolerate.

I agree wholeheartedly with this, especially the last sentence.

I would add her mother as another indicator of it being an act or nor. If her parents are still married is key. But if the mother still cooks and cleans and treats the father like you would like to be treated by your wife, it may not be an act.

[Barron]

(05-30-2015 11:31 AM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

Let's say you're in an LTR and she does and says all the right things. Takes care of you as a man, respects you, does not give you any shit, isn't spoiled and comes from a strong traditional nuclear family. You strongly believe her notch count is low to none.

You're seriously considering marrying her. But before you pop the question or tie the knot, how do you know or determine that it's not all an act? That she isn't doing the dishes and folding your clothes, only to stop doing all those things once you get hitched?

Background to why I'm asking:

I was at a family reunion last night and we had a pow-wow about my marriage and divorce. The women in my family were surprisingly red-pill about it, for lack of better description.

When you guys and I talked about my ex-wife in my divorce thread, y'all were too nice compared to what my female family members said. Some of the things they said were:

Sister in law: "She's evil and knows how to manipulate a man with puppy dog eyes."

33 y/o female cousin 1: "She had me fooled, too. It was all an act from day 1."

42 y/o female cousin 2: "You need to date as many women as you can so you know who is good and who is not. Don't marry in the next 5 years, at the very least."

Sister: "I agree, focus on yourself, be selfish, and don't sacrifice any of your time and money or happiness for a woman."

33 y/o female cousin 1: "She really treated you like that? Next time a woman does that shit, tell her to piss off!"

82 year old Aunt: "Don't ever marry an American girl!" (and everyone bust out laughing)

And then I posed this question: "how do I know if a good girl is not just acting?"

No one had an answer.

You're asking the question because your mind is in blue pill romance mode. The question itself implies that you're making the relationship about her, when it should be about you.

Assume that it's all an act, assume that from day one she's a completely different person than what she's presenting. Because she is, all women are to some degree. Women are reactionary to us, meaning that they can't do shit by themselves because they need us to initiate for them. If you make the relationship about her then you are giving her power over you and she will most definitely use and abuse your ass, as would any woman, as you would deserve.

If the relationship was solely about you and your happiness (the way it should be) then it wouldn't matter if she's acting or not because ultimately she is submitting to your frame. Her reaction to your dominance would be submission, and not some subterfuge that keeps you awake at night wondering if you trusted the right person with the keys to your happiness.

Happiness comes from you and you alone. Your concern over if the bitch is acting or not is in fact a manifestation of your gut's awareness in knowing that you've given another person the power to control your happiness.

Work on your inner game.

[CleanSlate]

Alright I'll play.

(06-22-2015 04:00 PM)NomadofEU Wrote:  

You're asking the question because your mind is in blue pill romance mode. The question itself implies that you're making the relationship about her, when it should be about you.

You took my question out of context. I only asked it because my family members were all saying that my ex had them fooled, and that it was all an act. It only begged the question, and no one had an answer when I asked it. So I thought to myself, "hey, why not ask RVF and see what they say?"

I'm not making the relationship about her right now. I mean, what relationship?? There's no relationship! It's done. Dead. Six feet under. Disappeared from the rear view mirror. Sayonara! Good riddance.

It was much more a hypothetical question than anything else. It produced a pretty good debate and I learned a lot from other forum members in this thread on how to screen if you want an LTR.

(06-22-2015 04:00 PM)NomadofEU Wrote:  

Assume that it's all an act, assume that from day one she's a completely different person than what she's presenting. Because she is, all women are to some degree. Women are reactionary to us, meaning that they can't do shit by themselves because they need us to initiate for them.

I'll grant that this is good preventative advice.

Guilty until proven innocent, not innocent until proven guilty.

(06-22-2015 04:00 PM)NomadofEU Wrote:  

If you make the relationship about her then you are giving her power over you and she will most definitely use and abuse your ass, as would any woman, as you would deserve.

If the relationship was solely about you and your happiness (the way it should be) then it wouldn't matter if she's acting or not because ultimately she is submitting to your frame. Her reaction to your dominance would be submission, and not some subterfuge that keeps you awake at night wondering if you trusted the right person with the keys to your happiness.

Good luck finding a Western woman to forever submit to your dominance (or mine, for that matter).

Come on, let's be real...

(06-22-2015 04:00 PM)NomadofEU Wrote:  

Happiness comes from you and you alone. Your concern over if the bitch is acting or not is in fact a manifestation of your gut's awareness in knowing that you've given another person the power to control your happiness.

Work on your inner game.

So, the entire process of screening for a LTR by watching, with a critical eye, how she acts and behaves is a "manifestation of one's gut awareness in knowing that he's given another person the power to control his happiness?"



I think you're conflating screening with losing frame in a relationship a little bit here.

You are correct that if a man loses frame or makes his happiness dependent on the woman, the relationship is doomed and so is he.

But we should separate that from screening and watching for any chinks in her "act".

[Easy_C]

Apologies since I know it's an old thread, but here's what I look for:

1) Friends. Like attracts like. If she hangs out with mostly bitches or sluts, then there's something about her that makes bitches/sluts feel like they see eye to eye with her. Red flag.

2) Social Media Activity: Typically, girls who aren't wife material can fake being nice but they can't fake a normal ego. Attention whoring activity will be present on her accounts if she's faking it.

3) Defensive/evasive behavior. Wife material girls are good catches, and they know it whether consciously or subconsciously. That means they're generally going to be very secure in themselves hence they don't get butthurt too easily, try to deflect the criticism, or (as mentioned above) run to social validation. The good ones tend to be more likely to blame themselves than other people for difficulties.

4) Family: How does she relate to her family? How does her family interact with you? What is her family situation? While her coming from an intact and close family is major positive sign, the apple can be blown away from the tree. What you're looking for is a situation where she expects the family to treat you seriously, and where the family treats you as if you're a serious suitor.

5)Media. As above, you don't want a girl who is crazy about TV shows, movies, or music that glorify slutty behavior. SaTC fans are out.

[Caduceus]

List of criteria for wife material from 1939, from psychologist Dr. George W. Crane

[JackinMelbourne]

(05-30-2015 02:00 PM)Catch 22 Wrote:  

Go slow. The longer you observe, the harder it is for her fake.

THIS.

Works EVERY SINGLE TIME

Sometimes it takes a few weeks sometimes a few months and sometimes a few years! But what's the rush? Are you rushing to get married? Is she? Why?

[RatInTheWoods]

(05-31-2015 12:05 AM)Bushido Wrote:  

A useful way to get hints into a girl's true character is to tell invented stories in the third person.

- The wife of your "friend" who doesn't put out anymore after she popped out kids. Your friend is considering leaving her but doesn't know what to do.
- Your classmate's fiancee who still sucks at cooking despite living with him for over a year. He is having second thoughts about marrying her.
- The wife who still takes selfies on her Facebook page every day and chats to random guys.

I do this all the time for LTR screening. It works really well.
Tell multiple stories over a reasonable time span to make sure.

This is a brilliant PsyOps tactic!

Very clever.

[Montrose]

Good rating scale. My wife scored 98 (Very Superior)

[MMM]

My current girlfriend says and does all the right things. She's passed the "my friend''s wife did "X" tests." I just give the bitch the side eye, thinking "damn, your 'girl game' is on point!" Game recognizes game.

[CleanSlate]

Almost 4 years ago, damn!

This thread aged pretty well, I have to say.

[DarkTriad]

(01-28-2019 08:35 AM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

Almost 4 years ago, damn!

This thread aged pretty well, I have to say.

Some things are timeless.

[MaceTyrell]

(06-19-2015 12:03 PM)Ingocnito Wrote:  

(05-30-2015 12:40 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Patrice O'Neal said that you need to teach your girl how to love you and take care of you.

That's all I got. So if she's amenable to leadership and your lessons, you're more likely to have the thing you want.

WIA

I agree with this. Also, if you want to know if it's an act early on.. apply this:

1) Does she start cooking a meal without "announcing" it. I.e. "Hey I'm going to cook us something blah blah blah.." making it seem like she's giving you options of what to eat. What she's doing is making a point to you she is doing something you benefit from, like filling up the value gas tank... it's an act.

2) If instead, she just starts cooking and you ask her "Whatcha makin babe?" << That's a different scenario, and that's how life should be. A smart woman already knows I need greens, meat, and light carbs after lifting, and it only takes me telling her once for it to register.

3) If she does a lot of chores seemingly right in front of you, it's intentional.

~ This can be applied to anything she does in the first 6-18 months. Does she make a verbal point of everything she's doing FOR YOU as she starts to do it or as she's doing it? If so, fuck her, and fuck that shit. If she complains as she does any of these tasks too, fuck her and fuck that.

Also, if she has difficulty integrating with the other family hens.. and it's not a natural blend, she's got guilt she can't hide towards one gender (get her alone around guys of family and girls of family and see how she acts), BEWARE.

Often the shadiest bitches are drawn to the most stable, close families. If her family seems shady but you think she isn't because she's able to describe how dysfunctional her own family is and she has thus since removed herself from their tumult... DON'T BELIEVE IT, SHE'S JUST LIKE THEM AND DISGUISING IT BY POINTING OUT her very own worst inbred flaw TO YOU to throw you off the scent of her lies and schemes.

I've had five GFs/LTRs.

#2 (my favorite) would insist on paying for things certain times. At the time I was 17 and she was 16. She had the most stable upbringing of any girl I've dealt with. Strong Indian father.

#4 (the most expensive set of holes I've dealt with, great sex though) literally told me one time "oh you have to tell me when you want me to pay for things." At the time I was 22 and she was 22, and we both had jobs. Her father was gunned down in a drive by shooting at 5 years old.

I swear man, this board really can shine as a legit men's dating/LTR source.

[Jozi]

I'm gonna go a bit non politically correct here and suggest that you install some kind of spyware app on her phone, so that you could read her text and Whatsapp messages, emails etc. Don't dig into every conversation, just quickly look to see if there are any men on there that look like they might be entertaining her. See how she talks to them. See if she's sleeping with other men or if she's entertaining exes. You may also want to check how she talks about you to her friends. In WhatsApp you can search for keywords and it'll give you every conversation/message containing that specific keyword.

You could say this would be crossing the line, but have no doubts that woman wouldn't do the same to you (or already have). Women love snooping. And when it comes to such an important life decision such as marriage, I'd take every precaution I could to make sure I made the right choice.

Also, don't forget the prenup.

[lunchmoney]

This is a great thread and that rating scale is a must read for all men thinking of a LTR let alone marriage.

[Iconoclast007]

I think alot has allready been mentioned that I agree with. Are her parents still togethor, relatjonship with Father, is mother feminine and submissive, are her friends sluts.

When I married my Estonian wife it was for the purpose of raising a family. I had the option to come back to USA or continue living in Estonia. I choose to stay in Estonia as I beleive the culture in the USA would have likely ruined my wife and kids in the long term.

I would say she is probably not wife material if she lives in the USA, UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Sweden, Norway, Finland. Etc.any country that feminism has entrenched.

She will likely not be a good wife if you bring her to live in those countries regardless of how great she might be to begin with.

Women are as good as the culture that controls them or fails to control them.

Go live in a country were almost all women are submissive, feminine etc pick a good one and stay there. Build a life.

Just my. 02

[bgbusiness]

I just finished reading The Tactical Guide to Women by Dr.Shawn T.Smith.

Amazing book, I would say. Most of the things I knew them subconsciously or consciously, but to read things on a book by an actual expert who have been studying the topic for decades and been observing relationships/marriages for a very long time, it really gave me clarity on how to pursue my future engagement with the opposite sex.

To add value to this thread, one of the things that the book says is to wait until 12~18 months+ because that will get rid of the "honeymoon phase" and you are able to see the true reality of the women and the relationship that you have with her.

In addition, it's always great to have someone else give you a feedback on how she is, perhaps your family member. This way you are not "blinded" and able to KILL your blindsight.

[Nascimento]

It's been a while since I've written a meaningful post. Based on the quality of responses in this thread, I'm thinking this is a place for it.

I'm entering my late 20s. I'm happy that I realized early, late in my teens, that I had what seemed at the time to be a problem. I didn't have experience with girls, and I wanted something, anything. After my first few successes, I got hungry, and made this thing called "game" my life. I quickly forgot that all I wanted was a nice girlfriend – how could I want something so simple when I was experiencing something much more exciting?

Finding a group of guys as hungry as you are, going out 4x a week and approaching like crazy, doing day game when you're not out in the bars – it distorts you. It's not simply enough to close the deal with a girl you followed up with. No, you have to hit up the club after a new +1 and make some moves. "This is what it feels like to be a man!" is something the naive 19 year old me said when doing such things at the time.

Fast forward several years, and cutting it to a long story short, I've done what I could have only dreamed of. Not only was I doing well enough back home, but I went abroad and did it in several countries. Lived abroad, had several mini relationships. I liked it, but started to feel like I wanted something more... meaningful.

Quite some time after starting to have those thoughts, I'm now in an LTR. Over a year, the longest I've been in one. It's a great relationship. In the past I quickly pulled the plug when a prospect for something more than just a FWB showed me something about her I didn't like. I didn't have to this time. She showed me many things I value and would need from a girlfriend. It helps to now be living in a culture where traditional values are still intact, even if it's not immune to western corrosiveness. But I've found, over the course of this relationship, that she's become even more conservative, so to speak. When in the beginning she said she could see herself having kids later on, when she's 30, she now says 25 would be a good age. Having tried out her first full time job, she now dreads a 40 hour work week and claims that a career is not the rosy thing she envisioned. She'd much rather work 30 hours or less and be able to sustain her home and raise her children. If she could, she'd be a housewife, she would joke.

Anyway I don't mean to suggest I've found wife material and I'm wondering if it's an act, as the title of this thread says. It's obvious to me she's worth dating and a relationship with her is worth building. Numerous times I've found cute sweet girls that were pleasant to be around, and wanted to date me. But almost always there was some serious detriment or issue, often due to the modern world we live in. Too much instagram, resilience against traditional values, male orbiters that she wouldn't get rid of, a questionable past, and so on. I'm happy that I don't have any issues of this kind with her and some other common ones we're familiar with.

My biggest conflict seems to be another. I miss the lifestyle I used to hold. The bar girls, the one in the coffee shop, the one I should be approaching after a flirtatious look. I think it's harder than ever before to suppress the urge when we're surrounded by women with minimal clothing, porn is forced on to us, everything is so sexualized. It's never been easier to have sex with someone new. The novelty is hard to resist.

Roosh had an article about it recently, about guys in a relationship missing the single life. So I won't go into it, and you're already familiar with what I'm talking about. Grass is greener is relevant here too.

I know what I have is worth building because if I were to give it up just to go back to the chase, eventually I'd find myself in the same position as I'm in now, because there's no end to it. Hooking up gets old, and you'll find a girl that maintains your attention, and you find yourselves developing strong feelings and so on. There's a chance these other girls could be even better than my current girlfriend. But it's a ridiculous game to play. The ego is never satisfied, we'll always want a hotter, prettier girl that can do more for us.

So the best choice for me at the moment is to keep going, because at least this path has progression. At some point it could get much more serious than it is. I'm not remotely ready for it, but one stage at a time.

Needed to write this and get some of my thoughts out of my head.

[BlastbeatCasanova]

^Nice post man. I’m similar in age and situation as you. Learned game bc of my frustrations with women, developed these social superpowers, enjoyed fornicating, but bc of the skills I developed I found and developed a healthy relationship with a quality girl. The urges to go out and game are definitely still there but I’ve been through enough chicks to know that once you bust your nut a lot of them aren’t worth shit

[EndsExpect]

I want to put a warning out to you guys regarding the use of hypothetical situations to test out your girlfriend. Women will always answer how they think you want to hear. Additionally, women will also sometimes answer in a hypocritical way. For example, I once knew a church lady that openly condemned all cheaters to hell. She was at that very moment cheating on her husband with another guy... but believed it was Ok, because her husband sometimes spoke to her in a raised voice. Guys... the female hamster is so fucking strong that these questions should not be used to determine character, but instead used to determine thinking style and problem solving. Use them to see how wise she is and how she understands human nature.

A wise man once told me a decent way to tell which ones are wife material. I will share it here with you. Once you are in a relationship for a bit, virtually all women are going to start asking you to do things. Tell her NO. Tell her NO to everything, big things, small things, everything. "Would you hold my purse?" NO. "Can you pick me up?" NO "Will you clean the house?" NO. This takes her control away and you will start to see what kind of woman you actually have. You can then follow up by asking her to do things for you. If she doesn't then take something away. "Could you wipe down this countertop for me? I would appreciate it a lot" If she says yes, then reward her. If she says no... then take something away... removing attention can be a powerful move.

Questions?