[VincentVinturi]

What's up guys, I've been training BJJ for about 5 years.

Recently I took about a month off because I had a crazy skin rash from applying antiseptic cream to a fresh tattoo.

Anyway, during this month all I did was lift heavy, get plenty of sunshine, sleep, eat and fuck.

I felt like a million bucks the whole month.

Ridiculous sexual energy, great mood, slept like a baby, got a lot of work done.

This week I got back to BJJ and I intentionally rolled light for the first few days.

Still, I feel like I've been hit by a truck, my sleep got thrown off, and my libido feels a bit lower.

I'm no expert so I thought I'd appeal to the forum fitness heads: what's the deal here?

Cortisol?

The fact that you're essentially fighting every day and exhausting the fight/flight system?

Overtraining / too much cardio?

Etc?

Frankly, I couldn't ever imagine my life without grappling before.

But I feel so much better just lifting heavy, to the point where I'd consider giving it up.

Any thoughts, experiences? Please share.

[kinjutsu]

I can understand where you're coming from.
Over the years i've had to take breaks from martial arts training.

Your body adapted to not needing to expend that much energy.
So it allocated the free energy to the other activities.
You should ease back on the weights and the all night fuck sessions for a month or so.
Also adjust your diet accordingly to make sure you are getting all the food you need to maintain this level of activity.
Cut back on cardio as well.

[Checkmat]

I recently took 3 months off BJJ for an injury. Got back on the mat last Friday.

You're essentially disrupting homeostasis with a big stressor. You got so acclimated to not rolling--physically, emotionally, hormonally--that your first week back is a big shock to your body. It's to be expected.

I'm honestly surprised that someone with your amount of experience would consider quitting after a bad week. A bad first week back from time off. There really aren't any "good" first weeks back after time off.

[viajero]

Are you eating low/no carb?

[VincentVinturi]

(05-28-2015 10:51 AM)Checkmat Wrote:  

I recently took 3 months off BJJ for an injury. Got back on the mat last Friday.

You're essentially disrupting homeostasis with a big stressor. You got so acclimated to not rolling--physically, emotionally, hormonally--that your first week back is a big shock to your body. It's to be expected.

I'm honestly surprised that someone with your amount of experience would consider quitting after a bad week. A bad first week back from time off. There really aren't any "good" first weeks back after time off.

Yeah I agree, your body is basically going "WTF!?"

I've learned to transition into training slowly, even after 1 week off.

Otherwise you feel like you just got hit by a truck.

I didn't really take my own advice and rolled hard with a brown belt who has 20kgs on me.

It was a good little war but I could feel how it fucked my cortisol up and I couldn't sleep that night, after a month of sleeping like a kitten.

Re: quitting...nah, I'm just being a drama queen.

I'll never, ever quit BJJ.

1) I want that black belt!

2) BJJ has really given a lot to me, on and off the mat, keeps you sharp, keeps ego in check.

I really can't imagine my life without putting on a gi at least a few times a week.

I guess what I wanted to communicate is my frustration with not being able to have my cake and eat it too.

When you train BJJ regularly it's a compromise on strength and hormonal profile relative to pure powerlifting.

"Chronic cardio", Mark Sisson calls it.

Trying to find that balance...

(05-28-2015 11:26 AM)viajero Wrote:  

Are you eating low/no carb?

I kind of go by feel.

I go high fat/protein in the morning and then evening meal I eat potatoes, rice, sweet potatoes, coconut water, etc.

I feel fine energy-wise.

I think CheckMat hit the nail on the head: too much too soon.

[viajero]

I feel like you may be overthinking this.

You got in what's basically a fight, even if a controlled one, with a big, trained, strong man. You're tired afterwards. Seems reasonable to me.

What time of day do you train? Sounds like you were just sore from rolling and not sleeping made it worse.

I think you're overestimating what a little cardio does to your hormones and strength. Check out strikeback's posts, I think he's a great resource and is lifting at a higher level than most on the forum without dismissing cardio.

[Hades]

I'd just give it a week and if the weirdness persists then consider eating or sleeping more.

[JCIZZLE]

Give it a week or two. Don't quit. I train at a top tier academy in a major city and a long layoff like that takes a few weeks to recover even if your going light with good guys it's kind of a shock to the body

[WanderingSoul]

Vincent, we've already had this talk. You know BJJ is for pussies.

But seriously, would usually feel great after an extended break, until I'd try to go to bed. I'd finish training around 8:30ish and try to go to bed around 11 and I'd sweat my balls off. My body would be crazy overheated and I couldn't sleep at all. On the mats I felt fine, but later that night I'd crash a bit and often times get a headache and the next morning my neck/upper back would be pretty tight. I don't know if it was cortisol or what but I definitely didn't feel normal.

I think you'll get used to it again after a week or two. I always did. It's also hot as fuck here in SEA now, so that is probably part of it. Extreme heat and humidity coupled with hard training that you haven't done for a while and probably constant dehydration that for me is almost impossible to avoid here right now is my guess as to what's going on.

Stick to curls. Jiu Jitsu leads to sub standard bangs.

[Yeti]

(05-30-2015 12:26 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  

Vincent, we've already had this talk. You know BJJ is for pussies.

But seriously, would usually feel great after an extended break, until I'd try to go to bed. I'd finish training around 8:30ish and try to go to bed around 11 and I'd sweat my balls off. My body would be crazy overheated and I couldn't sleep at all. On the mats I felt fine, but later that night I'd crash a bit and often times get a headache and the next morning my neck/upper back would be pretty tight. I don't know if it was cortisol or what but I definitely didn't feel normal.

I think you'll get used to it again after a week or two. I always did. It's also hot as fuck here in SEA now, so that is probably part of it. Extreme heat and humidity coupled with hard training that you haven't done for a while and probably constant dehydration that for me is almost impossible to avoid here right now is my guess as to what's going on.

Stick to curls. Jiu Jitsu leads to sub standard bangs.

Vincent, if I could offer some perspective: I had my first BJJ class ever recently and I felt probably as you did. I didn't even roll that hard but everything was so new. I was aching the next day and it took about two days to feel normal again. I'd imagine that taking a month off and going back onto the mat would be like doing BJJ for the first time so I think that you just need to start doing it more.

[Neo]

Vincent,

Same exact boat.

[Checkmat]

^ Good post. I think longevity in the art is crucial. Whatever it takes to prevent burnout and quitting.

[The Lizard of Oz]

(05-27-2015 11:57 PM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  

Anyway, during this month all I did was lift heavy, get plenty of sunshine, sleep, eat and fuck.

I felt like a million bucks the whole month.

Ridiculous sexual energy, great mood, slept like a baby, got a lot of work done.

VV,

I think you should pay very close attention to what your body is telling you.

You're still a very young guy, so to you feeling like a million bucks, sleeping like a baby, having great libido and wanting to fuck all the time, being productive -- they all seem like no big deal, almost like you take them for granted.

But these things are precious. And if you found a regimen and a way of life that gives you all these things, you might strongly consider keeping it for the long haul.

I've always thought that for many many men, the exact lifestyle you described -- lifting rigorously and hard a few times a week; getting plenty of sun, especially in the summer; sleeping regularly and well, eating well, and fucking plenty of young pussy -- is the absolute ideal. If it works for you, why mess with it?

You should free yourself from any mere psychology -- the idea that you "have to" do BJJ or martial arts because you've invested time in it already, or because you think you have some particular relation to it. These are mere psychological prejudices and they are not necessarily useful to you, in fact they are why men make irrational decisions.

You are a naturally skinny dude and maybe you really don't need all that extra cardio, it can mess with your test and libido.

Again, all these things are individual and you should listen to your own body. Don't just dismiss what it's telling you because of pride or other psychological baggage. The fact that you suggested in the OP that maybe you don't really need to do BJJ means that the thought occurred to you, so you shouldn't allow yourself to just be shamed out of it.

Finding a lifestyle that works for you and that makes you consistently happy, healthy, libidinous and productive is the very greatest gift a man can be given -- if you've gotten there, don't throw it away.

[EagleMan]

I just started rolling in bjj again last week after about 8 months off and I surprisingly didn't feel that bad, maybe it's because of all the other training I've been doing. (Boxing, Yoga, calisthenics).

[Wutang]

(05-31-2015 03:19 PM)Neo Wrote:  

But I think the real answer is that it's impossible to do both (BJJ and weight lifting) at 100% unless you're in your prime or on gear. I'm over 30 and grappling is different now. Too much of it and I get that run down feeling you describe.

It's true - the only guys I know that can lift consistently 4+ times per week are people who don't do any other serious physical activity besides lifting. I used to squat twice a week and even that was enough to seriously effect my endurance in BJJ. Sure I felt way stronger but I would also get fatigued much much quicker.

Since the main reason I lift or do any other sort of workout is so I can more leverage when I'm on the mats, it's the first thing that gets cut if I need to tone down on physical activity.

[VincentVinturi]

@The Lizard of Oz

That's a great point.

I'll put it in my pipe and smoke it.

[Atticus]

I understand your reluctance to quit training. I'm grappling (heh) with the same doubts in respect of judo. I think it is necessary to articulate precisely what it is about BJJ that keeps you coming back for more. A part of it is having invested a great deal of time, money, blood, sweat and tears, that to quit now would seem like a waste. I'm not suggesting that is a reason to continue, but it may account for your reluctance to quit on a subconscious level. Another thing- BJJ (like Judo) is a thoroughly absorbing activity. When you are on the mats, mind and body have to be totally in sync and all the noise from one's daily life gets shut out. In addition, it involves mastery of very complex movements which exercise the mind as much as the body. There a very few activities that offer that kind of "flow" and mindfulness.

Perhaps on another level, you have invested a lot in a particular self image that comes with doing combat sports, and that is not something to be dismissed lightly. Even in this day and age, a man who is physically tough and able to defend himself still garners status. I'm not talking about going around starting fights, but rather having the self assurance that comes with being able to throw someone or choke them out if push comes to shove. That is no mean feat.

However, all of this comes with a cost. Like you, I'm getting sick of feeling like I have been hit by a truck after training. I don't know what the answer is, but please keep us posted on what you decide to do.

[StrikeBack]

Anytime you introduce (or reintroduce) a big change in your physical training that ups the volume by a huge amount, you will feel shit for the first 2-3 weeks. It's better to do so gradually to give your body time to adapt. Still, if you like the big bang approach, just be patient and wait it out.

I know nothing about BJJ, but the first 2 weeks I added boxing on top of my powerlifting training, I felt pretty ordinary as well. Then my body adapted, and I also rebalanced my training by cutting out some lifting assistant stuff that were no longer necessary with the addition of boxing. Listen to your body and adapt your training accordingly.

[Dark Knowledge]

What was your routine before?

I believe I struck a perfect balance right now in my training. 3x BJJ, 3x lifting with one day rest. I've been doing this for a couple of months and I'm satisfied with it. Roughly every 6-8 weeks, i'll take one week off from everything. I find this has helped me recharge my batteries. Also it has kept me injury free.

If my diet and sleep are off and I train at my normal intensity, I'll get exactly how you described. Low energy, low libido, tired all the time etc. I think right now you should just stick with it for a couple of weeks and let your body adapt.

[Atticus]

I should have added, that sleep and yoga are crucial. Ever since I upped my sleep and started yoga, my body can handle the punishment a whole lot better. Not only am I more flexible during class, but yoga has actually cured a niggling back issue and improved the quality of my sleep, and hence recovery time. The gorgeous girls at the yoga studio are an added bonus.

[VincentVinturi]

(06-04-2015 11:16 PM)Atticus Wrote:  

I should have added, that sleep and yoga are crucial. Ever since I upped my sleep and started yoga, my body can handle the punishment a whole lot better. Not only am I more flexible during class, but yoga has actually cured a niggling back issue and improved the quality of my sleep, and hence recovery time. The gorgeous girls at the yoga studio are an added bonus.

I'll add my experience to that.

I had a pretty gnarly case of coccydynia (debilitating pain in my tailbone).

I couldn't train jitz AT ALL because anytime I directly applied pressure on my tailbone the pain was excruciating.

I tried chiropractor, taking time off, lifting (which didn't bother it too much).

But the only thing that worked to relieve pain and eventually help with healing it completely was copious yoga poses.

There's a black belt teaching in Bali, a Brazilian guy, who got in a hang gliding accident that almost killed him and totally fucked his body up.

Yoga brought him back from the brink of being an invalid.

He then went to study Yoga and lived for years in India.

I've heard countless anecdotes of people repairing serious damage to their bodies and restoring health with yoga.

Its healing powers are truly amazing.

[VincentVinturi]

+ 1 for the benefits of yoga, for the mind, body and spirit.

Don't quit bro, we all go through 'breaking in' periods. Keep on going.

(06-05-2015 01:07 AM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  

(06-04-2015 11:16 PM)Atticus Wrote:  

I should have added, that sleep and yoga are crucial. Ever since I upped my sleep and started yoga, my body can handle the punishment a whole lot better. Not only am I more flexible during class, but yoga has actually cured a niggling back issue and improved the quality of my sleep, and hence recovery time. The gorgeous girls at the yoga studio are an added bonus.

I'll add my experience to that.

I had a pretty gnarly case of coccydynia (debilitating pain in my tailbone).

I couldn't train jitz AT ALL because anytime I directly applied pressure on my tailbone the pain was excruciating.

I tried chiropractor, taking time off, lifting (which didn't bother it too much).

But the only thing that worked to relieve pain and eventually help with healing it completely was copious yoga poses.

There's a black belt teaching in Bali, a Brazilian guy, who got in a hang gliding accident that almost killed him and totally fucked his body up.

Yoga brought him back from the brink of being an invalid.

He then went to study Yoga and lived for years in India.

I've heard countless anecdotes of people repairing serious damage to their bodies and restoring health with yoga.

Its healing powers are truly amazing.

[Atticus]

So, VV, did you end up quitting?
I only ask because I've just returned from a 5 week overseas holiday and the thought of heading back to Judo fills me with dread. Like you, my time off amazed me at how good my body felt; sleeping like a baby and in a perpetual state of readiness to fuck like a jackhammer.

On the other hand, I can't wait to hit the gym, lift weights and resume yoga. Right now, I'm thinking life is too short to do things that aren't 100% enjoyable, but the little voice inside my head is saying "softcock". If i do quite judo, I will most likely supplement my gym with at least one cardio boxing session a week. Not great for self defense, I know, but still good for explosiveness training. However, before I quit i just wanted to get an update. If you quit, any regrets, or no looking back?

[VincentVinturi]

(09-07-2015 12:33 AM)Atticus Wrote:  

So, VV, did you end up quitting?
I only ask because I've just returned from a 5 week overseas holiday and the thought of heading back to Judo fills me with dread. Like you, my time off amazed me at how good my body felt; sleeping like a baby and in a perpetual state of readiness to fuck like a jackhammer.

On the other hand, I can't wait to hit the gym, lift weights and resume yoga. Right now, I'm thinking life is too short to do things that aren't 100% enjoyable, but the little voice inside my head is saying "softcock". If i do quite judo, I will most likely supplement my gym with at least one cardio boxing session a week. Not great for self defense, I know, but still good for explosiveness training. However, before I quit i just wanted to get an update. If you quit, any regrets, or no looking back?

I didn't quit. I've come too far and I love it too much.

I just focused on nutrition and sleep and pushed through the pain. Then my body adjusted and it was all good again. In fact, I competed on Saturday and took silver.

I honestly can't see ever quitting. Complaining about how much body hurts, yes. But quitting, never!

[Atticus]

(09-07-2015 02:06 AM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  

(09-07-2015 12:33 AM)Atticus Wrote:  

So, VV, did you end up quitting?
I only ask because I've just returned from a 5 week overseas holiday and the thought of heading back to Judo fills me with dread. Like you, my time off amazed me at how good my body felt; sleeping like a baby and in a perpetual state of readiness to fuck like a jackhammer.

On the other hand, I can't wait to hit the gym, lift weights and resume yoga. Right now, I'm thinking life is too short to do things that aren't 100% enjoyable, but the little voice inside my head is saying "softcock". If i do quite judo, I will most likely supplement my gym with at least one cardio boxing session a week. Not great for self defense, I know, but still good for explosiveness training. However, before I quit i just wanted to get an update. If you quit, any regrets, or no looking back?

I didn't quit. I've come too far and I love it too much.

I just focused on nutrition and sleep and pushed through the pain. Then my body adjusted and it was all good again. In fact, I competed on Saturday and took silver.

I honestly can't see ever quitting. Complaining about how much body hurts, yes. But quitting, never!

Haha, good to hear, but I must admit, I was looking for an excuse to quit. Now... more soul searching...... Dammit, this thread is not going in the direction I was hoping for