[the Thing]

Hey guys. Long story short. Russian girl, she knows me, no aliases etc. 3 piss tests and a doctor's blood test came positive. No ultrasound yet (beginning of June) but doctor's guess 4-5 weeks in.

Let's just forget the whole court ordered child support and associated legal rape, I'm not ready to become a father, if I'm having a kid I'm having it in my family which I'll build once my life is sorted out, and not in a different country. I don't want to live my life constantly thinking about that kid I had when I was 25. I certainly don't want a young man/woman to show up at my door and call me "dad" when I turn 50. The girl however is 29, biological clock ticking, the pregnancy hormones take over and she says she wakes up happy every day because she knows she is not alone. She also says the God who gave the child would also give the help needed to raise it. I'm not really a person of God and I think one would do everything in their power and then leave it to God, but in her case lousy job, no house, no car, I don't think it's a wise choice for her really. She says she wants some change in her life but fuckity fuck fuck guys if you want change in your life you go fishing, sign up for a dance class, learn glass sculpting, I don't know, but not have a fucking kid ?!

Now I see two outcomes to this situation:

• I let it be and help them financially as best I can. She might find someone and settle down or she might not but in neither case do I see that kid ever really accepting me as his/her father.
• I go "if you want to raise this kid do it yourself" and my relationship with both the mother and the kid is permanently fucked.
  

I don't see me moving to Russia because what good a man would I be if I can't support my family?
She wants to travel the world and settle down in Russia and throwing ideas left and right on how/where in the country we settle down, finance the house, or I work here 2-3 more years and get citizenship then we can all settle in Turkey nice and sunny, etc. I want to sort out everything else first, family second.
Anyway what's common to both of these outcomes is I end up just having been there to provide the seed and not really the family man so to speak.
Even though I like the idea of having a family and next of kin, it doesn't really mean anything to me unless I get to do this:

(Notice how he has whites on his hair? I don't even have proper facial hair yet)
I don't want to force the idea of having an abortion on her because I must admit "I wake up happy every day because I know I'm not alone" kind of touched me.
Advice please, the fuck do I do?

Also open to any advice regarding how international child support works. I live and work in Sweden but not a Swedish citizen. But I am curious if she can write me down as a parent without my passport, signature and consent in Russia? I will probably hear about international child support in Turkey from my lawyer mother (I spoke to dad on the phone and he said he wouldn't tell mom but this is the guy who answered "yes" to "are you cheating on me" so I won't be surprised) Right now I'm not concerned about the girl making claims on my assets but if she can name me a parent without my consent or a court order I would be because I hold a shit ton of my parents' assets under my name for tax purposes (I live abroad)

Thanks for the answers guys. Not sure if this forum or "Lifestyle" is the right one but I couldn't see "bastard child" as a lifestyle so here it goes

[Brodiaga]

You don't seem to know what you want. Do you want the child? Do you want to stay with that girl?

Your course of action depends on how you answer these questions.

I wouldn't worry about the girl getting your parents' assets in any case.

[the Thing]

(05-21-2015 06:14 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  

Research relevant forums and web sites, find out whether there is a child support treaty/agreement between Russia and Sweden. Then consult with a lawyer.

It's a difficult situation. It I were in your shoes and didn't want to be a father, I would offer to pay for abortion. If the girl declined, I would do everything in my power to avoid paying child support.

AFAIK Sweden doesn't honor child support orders by foreign courts unless the child is raised in Sweden, ie. will join the Swedish workforce when he is 18 years old.

It boils down to whether she has to prove my fatherhood or not in Russia really. Some countries both parents need to sign the birth certificate. In Australia for example, the mother can write whoever she wants down on the certificate and it's the father's responsibility to disprove with a DNA test.

Edit: The post changed

(05-21-2015 06:14 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  

You don't seem to know what you want. Do you want the child? Do you want to stay with that girl?

Your course of action depends on how you answer these questions.

I wouldn't worry about the girl getting your parents' assets in any case.

I want a child but not now really. This is all pretty new to me. I can stay with the girl but that would be "settling down" instead of "reaching up". I would be fine today but I'll probably get bored in a few years at which point I'd get DPd by divorce and child support both. My plan was to start a family once I get my life sorted out and with someone the same 1-to-10 level as me.

I'm not really worried about those assets but it would be nice to know how this works in Russia anyway.

[Roosh]

What is the minimum financial and time commitment you are willing to make on the child, assuming you don't settle down with the mother?

[Brodiaga]

^I changed my answer after re-reading your post, because first I assumed you didn't want the child or a relationship with the girl.

I am not a lawyer, but you having to pay child support boils down to whether or not the court in the country where you reside and/or your assets are located orders you to pay child support. If somebody in a different country claims that you are the father, that doesn't mean much.

Like I said, you need to decide what you want. If you don't want to be with the girl or have the child, I would just offer to pay for abortion. If she insists on having it, then just ignore. Consult with a lawyer and check the treaties/agreements just in case, but I don't think you're on the hook for child support.

[the Thing]

(05-21-2015 06:23 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

What is the minimum financial and time commitment you are willing to make on the child, assuming you don't settle down with the mother?

I can probably afford to raise a child in Russia assuming my income doesn't go down from where it is today. But I don't want to half ass on raising the kid, ie. just being able to make ends meet.
Time-wise, I work Monday to Friday 9-5 right now so I'll pretty much only see him/her on vacations. My plan was to work towards a location independent career eventually but I can't really tell when that will happen.

As it looks right now, I can afford raising the child but he/she won't really accept me as the dad. Which makes raising the child seem a little pointless

[Roosh]

Tell her that you would like to visit the child on your vacations and spend time with it in exchange for providing some monthly financial assistance and whatever other terms you require for fulfilling the investment you're prepared to make at this time. In other words, your money should have terms attached.

Before the child is born, consult with a Swedish family lawyer who can describe what your rights are and your financial exposures are. You should also consult with a Russian family lawyer.

In the meantime, remain on pleasant terms with the mother. I would ignore the nonsense she's stating right now about wanting to travel the world or whatever because once that baby comes, her perspective will be forced to change. In the meantime, take it one day at a time.

[Dr. Howard]

1. DNA test
2. Your DNA, definitely your problem in a moral sense only. I can imagine 'extradition of delinquent child support payors' is not high on the russian justice list. So you are probably limited to whatever you feel is just.
3. If you determine that you think the 'right' thing to do is commit your time, presence and money to raising the money party like its 1999 for the next 9 months and then lock yourself into that 'dad life' when that kid is born.
4. DO NOT take on guilt about this that is put on you by the mother, her parents or your parents. Do what your conscience tells you to do and then you can stand on the consequences based on your on choices 18 years from now.
5. If you do decide to go the full on father route, being a relationship with the mother is the best situation. If that cannot happen, prepare yourself for a higher chance of a strained or weird relationship with the child or the mother trying to box you out of the picture if she finds another long term partner.

[s3k]

I've got a data sheet coming that may help you but it's only half done. Damn, i'll definitly work harder on it's release. Promise i'll have it done and on the boards in the next 7 months (before or if the kid is born)

The datasheet is specifically for America, u.s.a. but I believe it's insights will give you a better judgement call. The datasheet is tailored for men obtaining custody of their child in the usa, something I specifically done.

Since your unsure weather you want her to have the kid, I would try your hardest to persuade her to have an abortion. Even travel there to talk to her in person 1on1.

[jariel]

There's a lot of good advice here, especially from Roosh.

The best advice I can give you for the present is since you've let her get to know you personally -- something I'd advise against in vacation flings -- and you appear to want to do right by the situation, I think you owe it to yourself to first establish that you're actually the father.

She is pregnant, and she might seem like a nice girl, but all of the advice in the world is moot if the child is not even yours.

The best advice I can give you for the future is "Wrap it up".

It's fine that we want to fuck women, and raw is definitely better than with protection, but I wouldn't fuck a chick raw unless I was ready to be a father to her child in the case that she got pregnant.

If you're having sex with a woman and the answer to that question is "No", then don't go in raw and don't bust in her when you finish.

I understand in the heat of the moment shit happens, but in the heat of the moment it's still necessary that one thinks.

[Cattle Rustler]

I'm calling a BS on the girl's story.

Get a DNA test, ASAP.
Until then, maintain minimal contact.

So you fucked this poor (socioeconomically) girl 4-5 weeks ago and now she claims to be preggo. On top of all of that, she had 10 years to travel the world but did not do so.....until now, when she is 29 without any future and pregnant with "your child". In addition, she's already making plans with your money in regards to finance a house and settling down or moving to Turkey where it's sunny and she saw pictures on VK about Russians vacationing there. One of the themes she seems to be touching is money, money, and money both directly (financing a home) or indirectly (traveling the world, moving to Turkey).

The whole "I wake up knowing not alone" is filler to feed you so you will feel guilty and touch you. As you mentioned, she took cocks in and out....then all of the sudden wants to settle down with a man who lives in Sweden, is from Turkey, and makes decent money,

Sorry to tell you brah, but it appears she's using you to get escape poverty.

Don't be a beta buck, get DNA tested.

If the kiddo is yours, establish your frame. Do what you want to do, not her. Remember, she needs you more to take care of the kid than you need her.

Edit: If you don't feel like having a kid right now, tell her to get an abortion and you'll pay her on the side. Win-win.

[the Thing]

Thanks for all the advice guys.

(05-21-2015 10:00 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

I'm calling a BS on the girl's story.

When I wrote "long story short" in my first post I really meant it- I wouldn't if I didn't have reasonable suspicion (read: 5 days of dick med and red bull fuelled raw dogging and dozens of nuts busted inside) She's not really dumpster diving, living on the street poor, she just has some job making little more than paycheck to paycheck living, nothing else to show for it.
Judging by the information I have (I have enough) there is a high chance (p<0.05) that the kid is actually mine.

I was thinking it went without saying that I will absolutely fucking get a DNA test before I sign, pay or agree to anything. The difference between you guys and me is I actually know this girl, this wasn't the first time we met, I know what she sounds looks and feel like during different emotions, and if there's something I trust myself in, that's reading people's intentions (I know I'm good at it because several other people told me that I'm good at it, not myself.) It sounded more like she was excited about starting a family rather than ripping me off for money.

The travel thing is really moot, she's been to Europe, Turkey, Cyprus etc. before, she likes travelling and the "travel the world" thing is just female bullshit except progesterone enhanced. That right there actually sums up the situation quite well. She apparently is happy all the time now, even signed up for a painting workshop because she loved painting growing up and couldn't really get herself to it after high school (read: progesterone high) I don't think she even realizes what's about to come let alone try to rip me off.

The thing is; I'm a fan of classic family structure. If I'm having a kid I'll make damn sure he grows up in a proper suburb house with picket fence and back yard at home with mom and dad. This woman ranks above the barrier I'd consider wife material. (Well behaved, beautiful, not afraid to take initiative but obeys when told, smart but not too smart, clean, concerned about the place not being tidy and takes action, previous cock count low indicated by lack of experience, can use a clothes iron) It's fairly safe to assume that I deemed this woman worthy as a mother by the fact that I dumped my load inside her. (Otherwise I pull out in good time and this shit never happens) So I believe she would do my lineage well.

Child support worries are not the highest on my list, it would be maybe 4th or 5th highest on a 10 bullet list. (If I was in USA I would be fucking trembling.) I'm more worried about bringing a child to this world and not being able to care for it (and don't read that right there and go all DNA test - YES I'll get one!) I'd do okay today but maybe I could have done better if I had more time, or what about tomorrow? She seems ok now but one thing certain about women is they fucking change, me being away so many years she can find someone else because as soon as the pregnancy high is over she'll feel alone again, now where do I fit into this picture, that's right I don't. If she doesn't, when she won't be able to work for at least 2 years if something happens to me, I can live with being disabled but I can't live with not being able to provide my woman and (DNA verified) kid.

Russian women don't really seem to care about family that much, I was once seeing a single Russian girl that had two kids, one black and one tanned Middle Eastern looking, I asked "how the fuck did that happen" and she replied "I wanted kids so I had them". She was working at a travel agency or something and took care of the kids on her own expenses. I mean the girl (in our story) isn't burger flipping, she has an actual job actually told me not to worry and she would take care of the kid herself if I didn't want to bother (progesterone high?) but I want to know where I fit into this "having a kid" picture by having some outside opinion.

tldr; A woman is pregnant with my (prospective, DNA test pending) child. Women might seem stable but they change. What the fuck is waiting for me the next 20 years?

[rudebwoy]

She will not abort the kid, not at that age unless you tell her to beat it.

Perhaps she is hoping to move to Sweden, it's not far from Russia. Doesn't Sweden have the best welfare system for single moms.

I have dated a few girls in other countries and they always talk that baby nonsense, it sounds nice but I would want my child growing up around me.

[the Thing]

(05-21-2015 11:16 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

She will not abort the kid, not at that age unless you tell her to beat it.

Perhaps she is hoping to move to Sweden, it's not far from Russia. Doesn't Sweden have the best welfare system for single moms.

I have dated a few girls in other countries and they always talk that baby nonsense, it sounds nice but I would want my child growing up around me.

Yeah Sweden does have that but if she gets a visa as my dependent, that by definition makes her a non-single mom.

I too want my child growing up around me. But I won't tell her to beat it because I don't want her seeking legal action, at least not before I talk to a lawyer (or several) about this.

[the Thing]

(05-21-2015 06:27 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  

I am not a lawyer, but you having to pay child support boils down to whether or not the court in the country where you reside and/or your assets are located orders you to pay child support. If somebody in a different country claims that you are the father, that doesn't mean much.

Child support cases are apparently decided by the courts of wherever the child lives. She would have to get a child support order there and have it enforced here.

It's amazing how much I learned about this just in the last 12 hours. Apparently international child support is very hard to get, unless the two countries have signed a child support enforcement treaty (which Russia didn't)

[samsamsam]

Quote:

It's fairly safe to assume that I deemed this woman worthy as a mother by the fact that I dumped my load inside her.

Quote:

I'm more worried about bringing a child to this world and not being able to care for it.

Based on what you have written and this comment above. It seems like you have some morals, values that drive your behavior and this woman isn't just any random chick. If this matters a lot to you, and of course after DNA testing, then I guess you would make arrangements to spend as much time as you could with your kid.

I respect you for your concerns and values, a lot of guys on here talk about taking off and ignoring the results of their actions. At least you seem to want to be responsible about it.

Quote:

What the fuck is waiting for me the next 20 years?

I cannot answer this because I do not have children yet. Also, everyone's journey is different. But if this child is yours, I wish you a happy and rewarding journey as a father.

As with most thing that do not need an immediate (24 hour type) answer. Take a little break, collect your thoughts. Maybe search for info on other forums, such as Reddit etc. Most importantly tune into your gut and see how it all feels. It seems like you want a family at some point in your life, a structured one. Sadly, life does not always go with how we want things done (timing, etc.) I hope you can find some peace in the decisions ahead of you.

Edit: Keep in my mind my comments come from someone who honors his agreements and believes that a man has to have some principles. I don't consider myself beta but I am not some ruthless alpha who is only concerned about himself. I also wasn't raised in a broken family and am not tainted by those experiences that others may have been. I bring that up because I don't have that perspective and that perspective can see your situation differently than mine.

Edit1: Definitely listen the Tom Leykis clip below. But this guy marries the girl, I am not sure if you are thinking about doing that.

[Spectrumwalker]

Listen to this clip from an old episode of the Tom Leykis show. The whole clip is good, but in particular pay attention to the first man he has on who found himself in a similar situation as yours. Listen to his story about how him trying to do the "right" thing ruined everyone's lives including his own. The man is pretty passionate and definitely makes you think.

I'm not saying this is what you should do, or even what I would do. Each man and his situation is unique, but perhaps this will give you some additional food for thought.

Godspeed...

[kash_MD]

+1 on Tom Leykis.

You don't want a child, and she can get a legal abortion in most countries in this world, she is choosing to become a single mother.

Be honest with her and yourself, do you want to raise this child or not?

If she chooses to keep the child your obligations start with what is legally required under law.

Consult a lawyer and move on with your life.

[Phoenix]

Got to do it some time. Just think of it as an early start. Unlike many other men, you'll still be in your early 40s when it leaves school.

[This Is Trouble]

What's her general views on monogamy, red pill beliefs, etc.?

Sounds like she has a decent head and good genes on her. And you've already knocked her up. Maybe you can have your cake and eat it too. Get to be around your kid, have someone to do your laundry and cook for you...and you can still do the discreet thing on the side without her really caring.

No idea where she'd stand on this but it's another possibility to consider, if any of the "home comforts" appeals to you in a sense.

[VincentVinturi]

You have to ask yourself honestly what it is that you want to do right now.

Do you want to be a father, reign in your freedom, chill out on your career goals, and settle down now?

Or would you prefer to continue building your empire, traveling, banging girls ad libitum, and then have kids at a later date of your choosing with a woman of your choosing?

I think it bodes poorly for all parties involved (the child, the mother, and most of all YOU) when your "decision" to have a kid isn't anything but 100% affirmative and consciously chosen.

If you have an "oops" baby and decide to stick around out of a feeling of obligation, or because people are patting you on the back for "doing the right thing" (the right thing according to THEM), then it's inevitable that you'll wind up resenting yourself on some level for the rest of your life.


Also, you may have already realized that this kind of situation is equally painful no matter which option you choose.

If you choose to be a father, you'll mourn the loss of your freedom and resources.

If you choose to walk away from the situation, you'll mourn "walking out" on your son or daughter.

Unless you can convince this girl to get an abortion and put this whole thing to bed, there's going to be emotional pain regardless of which road you take.


Like @kash_MD mentioned above, if the girl wants to keep the baby and you don't, then she is choosing single motherhood.

We live in an age where abortions are cheap and safe, and a woman hasn't any right to obligate a man to a life of unchosen responsibility because her biological clock is ticking.

Of course, in the USA you'd be fucked.

But since you live in a more civilized part of the world, you can *choose* what you want to do here.


With all due deference other posters, don't listen to anybody who tells you that you have any responsibility which you, yourself, haven't chosen.

This is the sure path to misery, as evidenced by all the miserable people all around you.

People who act out of a feeling of "duty", "responsibility", and "obligation" are bound to feel resentful.

And in their resentment they make their children and spouses miserable also, because they know they've sold themselves down the river.


They are parenting reluctantly.

They are settling down begrudgingly.

And their relationship with their spouses and children has the scent of bitterness all around it.


If you choose, choose out of your abundant joy and unambivalent desire to be a father and companion to a woman who lights you up.

Do what YOU want, and don't let yourself be bullied by anybody else's thoughts on the matter. Not your friends', not your family's, not society's, and not this forum's.

It's your life, and time devours all things, so act from your core.

That is the only truly moral thing to do.

[Cheetah]

Quote:

The thing is; I'm a fan of classic family structure. If I'm having a kid I'll make damn sure he grows up in a proper suburb house with picket fence and back yard at home with mom and dad. This woman ranks above the barrier I'd consider wife material. (Well behaved, beautiful, not afraid to take initiative but obeys when told, smart but not too smart, clean, concerned about the place not being tidy and takes action, previous cock count low indicated by lack of experience, can use a clothes iron) It's fairly safe to assume that I deemed this woman worthy as a mother by the fact that I dumped my load inside her. (Otherwise I pull out in good time and this shit never happens) So I believe she would do my lineage well.

Could it be that you aren't that sad about having the baby but a little scared about the responsibilities and what it takes to raise a child?

[Francis K]

Okay I'll play scumbag, you guys gave a ridiculous amount of good advice and guidance but someone has to do it. I've been in a similar situation and I feel like I owe it to you even if it makes you upset, I apologize if it does, sincerely.



Keep the kid and your life in regards to what this forum is about takes a complete nosedive. Something that is irreversible and will change your life forever. YOU WILL SUFFER for it, but hey having kids is about making sacrifices. Something else comes first now, not you.

Lose the kid and you regret the loss but there is the "out of sight out of mind" factor. I think it's something you will overcome especially since from what you're saying it sounds like you will have kids eventually. Also I 100% agree with you in regards to the classic family structure and if you have any inkling at all that you're not going to be able to provide that for this child then that there would make my decision for me.


If you want the kid then disregard the rest...



I read every word you typed but only you can genuinely gauge the temperament of this girl. From what you're saying this might be a change in her life that she really wants but I don't think she's a gold digger, again going by what you typed only you know for sure. But make no mistake she is using you, she's 29, obviously wants kids and found a good candidate. The fact she hasn't asked and respected what you want to do says a lot.

One avenue you could take is being straight honest and tell her how it would affect your life and talk it out. Tell her you will go there and be with her for the abortion, again temperaments critical for doing that. But I wouldn't do that, just in case she was resistant it would give her the upper hand so much more to make decisions for your life.


Here is what I did in my situation and it was recently. The chick was 40 and I'm 31, she was desperate for a kid and to make a story short I filled her fucken pussy with cum like an idiot. Month later she is pregnant and is thrilled as she is thoroughly obsessed with me and she hit the jackpot. This tactic came from an older family friend who had also dealt with this, with a stripper no less!

I played into her, I told her I loved her and I was excited and I couldn't wait to live my life with her. Then I told her about how we would both have to work and we could probably rent an apartment and get donations for baby supplies. I told her all my money was from my family and it would go to my sisters because I'm catholic and had a baby out of wedlock, my parents are devout. Also I work for my family, my family owns my businesses, so I would have to find a new job and my accounting degree is worthless because I never worked as an accountant. But I told her not to worry it would be just me and her and even though we would struggle we would survive and we would have love no matter. Yada Yada Yada, i said all of this in a sweet loving tone never breaking character.

She had the abortion the next weekend, didn't even tell me about it until after. Also I should point out this girl was not a whore, not poor, came from a good family, had strong morals and was a very kind and loving person. It's their natural instinct, it takes over and overrides everything. Why would a good girl have a baby with a man who can't support her? Only trailer trash, crackheads and the lowest of the low would be okay with that. If she believed what I told her she was right to have an abortion. We're not in the middle ages anymore where religion dictates what we should and shouldn't do over anything else. If you can't take on the FULL responsibility of having a child then you shouldn't have one, it's not about you its about the kid!

[Francis K]

Also her wanting to have a baby so she's not alone anymore is incredibly irresponsible and selfish. It will not solve any issues for her, in fact it will create endless more....

[UberBicep]

Its been said and I will say it again. DNA test is a 100% must, make sure she knows it. Make sure she knows it good. There are no exceptions. You are not the father until this is proven through science. This goes for every child you have, be it your wife or a ONS.

After she knows it, she may just get the abortion after all. Why? Because she is scared of a bad outcome for her with the DNA test, i.e., she doesn't really know who the father is. Many women will fuck multiple guys and when shit hits the fan, they'll just claim the dude which the most provider qualities is the father.

Ignore whatever shit she says. She may hate you for it. It may insult her. She'll make you feel bad and she may throw a shit-storm of emotions at you. Be firm, those are just games she might be playing to change your mind about the DNA test - but also because she's dug herself into a shit-hole and doesn't know what to do.

I have been in this situation before and it's an incredible emotional roller coaster. But just try to think logically without letting your emotions get to you. I recommend you trust your friends advice too and the advice on this forum, since when you're in an elevated emotional state you are not as able to make rational decisions.