[Dusty]

Another trick you need to be aware of...she may have been pregnant already by a ons or whatever and was looking for a provider to pin it on. DNa my friend.

[Quintus Curtius]

This could happen to any of us.

I do think that a DNA test is critical at some point. You should also consult with someone who knows domestic law in both your home country and in her country.

This sounds simpler than it is, because most domestic law specialists don't know very much about the international aspects of things. Do the best you can.

[Lizard King]

You can't do a DNA test until the child is born, which means you'll have to play ball between now and then.

OP, how old are you, if you don't mind me asking?

I'm 42 and I have 3 children by 2 different women.

The first child was conceived when I was in my early 20s and very inexperienced with women. I got hustled big time. The woman was not fit to be a mother and the child was looked after by a relative of the woman. I have never met this child and it's something I will feel bad about for the rest of my life.

I'm also careless like you, and I currently have a child on the way with a good woman who will be an excellent mother. We're not together properly, but she is kind of my main girl, I game other women on the side. I contribute financially on a regular basis, and will continue to do so until the child is an adult. I will be fully involved with the child and will abide by my duty as a father. This is what men are meant to do.

Being a father is not all doom and gloom. It does not stop you from gaming women.

You have to pay the cost, to be the boss. This means do your duty, keep the mother happy. That doesn't mean be a supplicating simp, it means be a strong man that understands his role as a father. When you do that she will not complain about mild transgressions, if she does, remind her what you do.

Final advice: NEVER CUM IN THE PUSSY. CUM ON THE FACE.
I wish I listened to myself sometimes

[Samseau]

She cannot fuck you through international laws, you seem to be a moral man. Make sure the kid is yours then send financial assistance in exchange for visitation time.

In fact, don't give her any money until you've shown up to visit your kid then give her a few lump sum payments 3-4 times per year in a couple thousand or so Euros when you visit her 3-4 times per year. She won't be able to swindle you, and if she starts seeing another guy and having kids with another man then you know you won't need to give her any more money.

Your bases will be covered and you can keep tabs on your Russian kid. Good luck

[samsamsam]

I keep writing this post and keep not posting it. Because it goes against the usual theme on this forum.
And this isn't directed at the OP, who seems to have some principles he lives by.

But if you choose to go RAW, things like pregnancy happen, right? Yes, she could have said put a condom on, but you (general you) could have also put the condom on. And chose not to.

Then there are posts - not always as thoughtful as the OP's - saying what a bitch, wants to have a kid, I don't have a say in the matter. But you had a say in the matter when you chose not to wrap it - yes, once in a while the condom fails - just part of life and sorry that it happens.

But I don't think being a man is about having unrealistic expectations that it should just be the way you want it. That is generally a child's view and they throw tantrums and shit. Being a man is being responsible and cleaning up your messes. Sometimes, I just see posts where the theme is "I fucked up and I don't want to deal with the consequences."

And this is all very easy for me to say, since I am not in this situation and never have. It is entirely possible that I would be flipping out if I knocked up some girl that was just a slut that I didn't respect at all. I can own that my viewpoint is shaped without actually going through this event.

tl;dr just wrap it. If you don't - what do you think happens?

[VincentVinturi]

(05-22-2015 12:56 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

But I don't think being a man is about having unrealistic expectations that it should just be the way you want it. That is generally a child's view and they throw tantrums and shit. Being a man is being responsible and cleaning up your messes. Sometimes, I just see posts where the theme is "I fucked up and I don't want to deal with the consequences."

If both parties are equally responsible for contraception and an accident happens, then both parties ought to have a choice about what to do in case of pregnancy.

The woman has the choice to abort if she doesn't want to go through with it, and the man has zero say.

If the man isn't prepared to go through with it and the woman in turn refuses to abort, then the man has the right to walk away as far as I'm concerned.

It takes two to tango and if you're anything less than enthusiastic about your visit from the stork, then you need to wait to have kids.

Too many children are being raised by parents who didn't want them because the dad felt guilty for not being dutiful, responsible, a standup guy, and whatever else.

So he begrudgingly went on to "clean up his mess" and resigned himself to 20 years of slavery.

That's not doing any favors to anyone, least of all the child.

[samsamsam]

^^ You seem to want to disconnect the responsibility from the action. Yes, it may seem like 20 years of slavery but you chose to have sex. Maybe it doesn't seem "fair" for a one night encounter that you should suffer for the rest of your life. She may see it as fair to have the kid. These are all known factors going into the event (sex) so maybe have sex with girls that have just as much to lose as you are if she has the kid.

Of course, I don't want anyone to suffer. I don't wish any ill will on any forum member or anyone in general. I truly don't but some seem to live off the I want to do whatever I want principle. Which seems delusional to me. No one can do everything they want without any consequence.

In your example about both parties being responsible and a baby is still conceived, what percentage is that with the guy wrapping it and she is on the pill or some other form of birth control, I imagine very small small small percentage.

Most of these stories we come across often seems to be the guy didn't wrap it. Or the girl lied about being on protection. Girls lie?

Like I said, I wish no ill will to anyone, nor do I try to minimize the frustration or hurt that some of the guys who have been through situation are experiencing. I have no joy in anyone's suffering. Truly, I don't.

But I can't wrap my head around some people who think they shouldn't have to deal with the results of their actions. I guess I am missing something. I am not trying to pass judgement, just sharing how it seems illogical to not connect the result with the action.

[Lizard King]

(05-22-2015 02:04 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

^^ You seem to want to disconnect the responsibility from the action. Yes, it may seem like 20 years of slavery but you chose to have sex. Maybe it doesn't seem "fair" for a one night encounter that you should suffer for the rest of your life. She may see it as fair to have the kid. These are all known factors going into the event (sex) so maybe have sex with girls that have just as much to lose as you are if she has the kid.

Of course, I don't want anyone to suffer. I don't wish any ill will on any forum member or anyone in general. I truly don't but some seem to live off the I want to do whatever I want principle. Which seems delusional to me. No one can do everything they want without any consequence.

In your example about both parties being responsible and a baby is still conceived, what percentage is that with the guy wrapping it and she is on the pill or some other form of birth control, I imagine very small small small percentage.

Most of these stories we come across often seems to be the guy didn't wrap it. Or the girl lied about being on protection. Girls lie?

Like I said, I wish no ill will to anyone, nor do I try to minimize the frustration or hurt that some of the guys who have been through situation are experiencing. I have no joy in anyone's suffering. Truly, I don't.

But I can't wrap my head around some people who think they shouldn't have to deal with the results of their actions. I guess I am missing something. I am not trying to pass judgement, just sharing how it seems illogical to not connect the result with the action.

Another aspect to the situation is "don't stick your dick in crazy".

Don't bang low quality women, and you won't be pulling your hair out if you knock them up.

[samsamsam]

The other thing I want to add is this.

We always complain that women want to tell us what beauty is and how we shouldn't be aggressive in seeking chicks. But it is biology, right? Men are wired that way. So we want that defense.

Isn't it biology that women want the seed of some alpha male, which 99% of the forum claims to be, because those are the best genes? Isn't that biology? And then we go to places which are more feminine and generally there seems to be a correlation of feminine and financial struggle. Just meaning the places we like to travel to (from a US perspective) are cheaper generally. We offer the fantasy of financial security.

Perceived Alpha genes + perceived wealth = girl wants to get the lottery ticket

Am I missing something here?

Once again, I am not trying to be a dick, just trying to be logical.

[VincentVinturi]

Great points, and I feel like there's going to be a natural division on opinions in regards to this issue.

Some men have a stronger paternal instinct than others. Hell, some men have zero paternal instinct.

On top of that, every situation is different.

I for one wouldn't dream of raising an oops baby unless the mother was a thoroughbred genetic specimen and a great woman with great motherhood written all over her.

You also have to think that your time and resources on this planet are finite.

If you misinvest on raising an oops baby with a woman of average genetics, you're diverting resources away from breeding truly superior stock.

That may sound heartless to some people but it's my honest, no BS feeling on the subject.

I do hear you though about wrapping it up.

It's a conundrum because sex with a condom feels like ...sex with a fucking condom.

And bitches lie to the moon about birth control.

By the way, if the woman claims she is taking birth control and still gets pregnant, then in my book all bets are off.

Because the implicit agreement is that pregnancy should NOT have occurred, and that she was the one ostensibly taking the measure to prevent it.

Good luck to the OP, I hope you make the decision that feels best for you.

[samsamsam]

Fuck much longer and rambling post than I wanted.

Tl;dr VV, I agree with you on many points. I have realized everything is a game and we prefer games are at least somewhat fair and the rules known. Once a girl is pregnant, she has all the power and our desire for fairness is crushed. Though life isn't fair, we still don't appreciate being treated unfairly. However, part of damage control is accepting the situation you are in. Not saying go ahead and have the kid, but owning how you got their so you can then take action. By fighting the truth, assuming it is your kid, you get stuck in that and can't move forward with damage control. Women lie. That is their nature, you can't expect them to go against their nature. Especially, if you know that women lie, you can't pretend they don't. I hate autocorrect.
--—----------------------------------------------------


VV, I hear you as well. I am in the same boat, I don't want to be in that position ever myself. I would prefer not to have my bloodline raised by a crazy chick. I wouldn't want to bring a child into the world if I knew it was going to have a tough life.

This discussion has made it clear to me something that I always knew but maybe couldn't articulate.

Life is all just a game. Work, sports, chicks, everything is just a game.

Obviously, guys don't want some chick they don't give two shits about threatening to raise a kid they claim is yours. Men don't want to lose freedom and especially to some random girl. Like any game you want to win (getting laid) with the least amount of resources given to try and maximize the fun.

With games I always feel like they have to be "fair" or at least understood so I don't feel like I got tricked. Or else the joy of playing is gone. And in a way by knowing the landscape (rules) I can work the rules to create a win. So by knowing the rules and by working on a strategy, I think the game is fair or at least I understand enough to be responsible. Close enough to fair for me to want to play. RVF has given me a better understanding of the landscape so I have a better idea and more tools to work with.

But with single woman claiming they are carrying your kid. As long as it is true they seem to be the final decision maker. They hold all the power. It doesn't seem fair.

You can try and convinvce them not to have the kid but I have to imagine it is hard to keep control with your mind spinning. And if you are spinning, you know she has totally lost any ability to think. And I think that really upsets most guys who generally prefer that things be fair. At the heart of it most guys I believe have some sense of fair play, and we know women generally do not. Women have a poor ability to think down the road, they are just in the moment little kids. You can't really expect them to be responsible.

I know I flip out sometimes when things are ridiculously unfair and when I feel like I don't have control of life. I can see how it would be crushing news to be told by some random that she is having my kid and starts to make demands on me. That she is the final decision maker. Because I am used to being the final decision maker. It wouldn't seem fair.

So we get stuck and start to rage (or at least I do sometimes) because I am getting a bad outcome. But the first step toward making progress from a bad situation is accepting the situation. I don't mean throw your hands up and let her run your life. But accept the reality of it, accept that you may have made certain choices to get to this spot. Then start taking steps to get out of it.

I guess I was posting a bit on this thread to help anyone who might be shocked to be in this situation. To not be in denial of their actions. Especially younger guys who may have grown up thinking everything should go the way they want it. In the real world sadly it isn't always the case.

[iknowexactly]

Reproduction and Regression to The Mean

Pragmatically, I like the advice Roosh offered. As I get older I learn that there are a lot of things better left UNSAID, especially negative things when one feels vengeful or paranoid.

When you are dealing with creating a human being who will likely live 80-90 years, the consequences of one's actions are a lot different than the temporary relationships one has in high school, college etc.

So the glorification of being "up front" and "giving them a piece of your mind" is sometimes misplaced in these situations.

It sounds trite, but many times:

Once you say it, you can't unsay it.

If you say something negative and later apologize, many times that is WAY worse than never saying the negative thing.

I advocate being conciliatory and positive while protecting your self-interest.

Someone started a thread which discussed the USA's agreements with some other countries to enforce each other's child support orders.

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-7500-p...#pid107960

One big thing is I think sometimes MOST people are "accidents" , but people make the best of it because you are creating a consciousness -- it's like someone you're having a party and sent an invitation to someone you didn't know because you got mixed up.

So this stranger shows up at your party, whether he's wanted or not is ambiguous, but he is innocent of any wrongdoing, and he DID get an invitation.

So out of basic compassion, you might choose to treat the new guest kindly.

From many stories, MOST people are created by "accident", or at least many.

My father let it slip once when I was a teen that I was an "accident" and my mother shushed him, but I could easily understand it, especially now.

They married after earlier, unhappy marriages ( my father's first wife was a bitch, my mother's first husband was nice but died in an accident) . They were about 36 when I was born, and each had two children from the earlier marriages.

So it was quite understandable that they hadn't planned me, but they were exceedingly kind to me. And not mentioning that I was an accident was a way of being polite.

REGRESSION TO THE MEAN

I've written elsewhere about having kids and regression to the mean. If you have something exceptional about your, your kids will generally tend to be more "normal" or average. Picasso was a genius, his daughter a good jewelry designed but nothing like her father.

I think it is a symptom of the mania for upward mobility in America ( a good and bad thing ) that your kid is supposed to surpass your, or at LEAST achieve at your professional level.

But unless your family line progressed to the point that someone becomes, IDK, POTUS or an Academy Award winner, when does it end?

There are a lot of people who want those top 500 slots available every year.

I've accepted that id I have kids they probably won't have my overall level of talent. That is normal, not a tragedy, if you understand statistics and genetics.

[RedPillUK]

Holy Shit.

I'm reading through this thread, and I can completely relate to how you're feeling OP.

This is almost bringing me back to feeling the same way.

I got a 28 year old girl pregnant I was 25, 26 now.

I was game aware, but blue pill and my head was in conflict. I genuinely didn't know what I wanted to do about it. I had very strong feelings for this girl, and felt it was best for her to have the kid but not me.

With all the blue pill bullshit about sacrifice, and her against abortion anyway, I decided the best course of action was to have the kid.

We stayed together, but I started becoming supplicating and beta in that relationship because of the pregnancy and my blue pill conditiioning, sacrificing, I was working more.

She cheated on me, decided I would be a terrible dad and that I never truly wanted the kid in the first place and broke up with me. I was fucked in the head for about 9 months until I discovered the red pill and decided this was the best thing that could have happened. I'm not seeing my kid, dont even know her name, but at least I'm still living my life on my terms, and not paying child support. I will still always regret her that I allowed her to have the kid.

Now looking back, I let all sorts of notions of 'doing the right thing' and 'sacrificing as a man' and 'growing up' fuck my head up.

And I can see even supposed red pill posters here doing that to you now,

Its fucking pathetic. Don't listen to bullshit like this:

"You seem to want to disconnect the responsibility from the action. Yes, it may seem like 20 years of slavery but you chose to have sex. Maybe it doesn't seem "fair" for a one night encounter that you should suffer for the rest of your life. "

and 'dont stick your dick in crazy'

Don't listen to that bullshit, we're supposed to be a community of men helping each other. and people here are putting you down and asking you to sacrifice for the deed you have done. As well as giving you advice that you can't even put into practise cos its FUCKING HAPPENED NOW. its fucking pathetic and it will only cloud your judgement, like the blue pill advice I got from my friends and family.
So tell those people to fuck off, and basically stop asking for advice, because it will be terrible. You have to do what you want to do, and it sounds like you're not in a good place in your life to have the kid.

Now with the power of hindsight, I know I should have dug my heels in and really pushed the abortion issue, and she probably would have done it. And if she still decided not to abort, I would just leave and tell her to find another dad then. I suggest you do this. Show her you don't WANT to be a dad, they can make you pay child support but they can't change what you want to do. Be cold and horrible about it if you have to, she really won't want you to be the dad after that.

I don't know how DNA tests work but if you have the kid and then get a DNA test it might prove you are the father, in that case wouldn't it be better to avoid it? so there's no proof you actually are the dad? If so don't get one.

Failing all that and she still has the kid, just go back home, you're lucky it was abroad, if you have a common name and she doesn't know your address, it will be hard to track you down.

[iknowexactly]

(05-23-2015 10:07 AM)RedPillUK Wrote:  

Holy Shit.


Failing all that and she still has the kid, just go back home, you're lucky it was abroad, if you have a common name and she doesn't know your address, it will be hard to track you down.

I think OP already commented she knows who he is.

[RedPillUK]

oh yeah and one other thing.

at the time I felt it 'just happened' and I wouldn't want to mess up her future chances of getting pregnant. you might be thinking the same thing.

bullshit.

now I realise its extremely likely she was lying to me about being on the pill, and did this on purpose, to have another kid and trap me into a relationship or at least take my sperm and raise it with someone else. (She had a loser orbiter or two..)but I was too in love to even suspect that really.

It' is 99% certain this is what has happened to you, it is very likely that this was cold and calculated, or if not she was subconsciously doing this to you. If shes doing this shit to you, you should take that as evil, using a kid as a weapon to entrap you and you shouldn't feel guilty about breaking it off, leaving, not paying child support, demanding an abortion, any of that stuff. She's not playing fair so don't worry if you don't come off as a complete gentleman during all this.

[samsamsam]

...

[samsamsam]

Redpilluk helping men doesn't mean saying you are right in every action. Men helping men means helping them grow into responsible adults who own their actions. Calling each other out on our own BS and sharing ideas. I am not saying responsible means you have to raise a kid you don't want. Saying one gets to learn from life not act like you are the victim. That is a woman's role. Men should strive to avoid falling into the role of a victim. Nor am I saying don't try to convince her to have an abortion. Run away and hide from her if you want. All I am saying is don't be a victim of the mess a person gets into.

It sounds like you got duped because you were in love and you are mad about it. Sorry it happened to you. But maybe some day you can look back and see how it all unfolded objectively. When I cross the street I never trust the cars to stop like they are supposed to I always look both ways. Never put your safety, your well being in the hands of another person.

And yes don't stick dick into crazy unless you take some appropriate precautions.

[rungoodinc]

Quote:

Redpilluk helping men doesn't mean saying you are right in every action.

So true.

In the same way that women often tell lies to trap us, we do the same thing to pump and dump them. So do we have any right to act like we're more righteous than them?

Don't get me wrong, I'll never support feminism. However, I do try to look at things objectively.

OP, I would do whatever you can to convince her to not have the kid. I had a friend who was in a similar situation and eventually convinced the girl to abort even though she was adamant about keeping it. There's another post in this thread which is a good example of what might work in persuading her to not have the kid.

[RedPillUK]

Finding the red pill was what gave me the ability to cheer up, live my life again and look at it all again as objectively as possible. I now see hundreds of things I did wrong, and red flags that I ignored.

saying you are right in every action? I didn't say he was right or wrong. I just think this is one of those HUGE fuck ups that can really get you down, you don't really need to be told any further what he did was wrong, he knows that. I don't really understand the rest of what you're saying in the first paragraph.

OP, When it happened to me my mind went off in overdrive in hundreds of different directions, I was blue pill so all I could do was ask friends for advice and go back and forth between all the possibilities in my mind. I listened to bad advice and I had my own notions of having to sacrifice for this kid in my head.

Now I'm a lot more clearheaded, I can see I never wanted a kid, I never wanted to raise another mans child, I didn't want to settle down, I wanted to pursue music on my own and not work some shitty job. However my mind was so messed up I couldn't even figure out what I wanted, and advice about sacrificing for the kid just confused me further.

So basically just the fact your thinking about this, means you never really wanted the kid. if you wanted a kid, you would say so. You're confused at the moment, but to be honest, you don't want that kid. Its in your best interest, the womans and the kids to have an abortion. Do everything you can to convince her. If that doesn't work, well, fuck it, run away and hope you don't get done for child support.

[Soothesayer]

This is exactly why I will never, ever tell a Filipina, Thai, Indonesian, or even Japanese girl my real name. It's dirt simple to just go by a fake name and get some ridiculously fake IDs online and throw them with said fake name in your backpack for her to find when she roots through it (she WILL eventually root through it).

The downside of course is that if she accompanies you to the airport, what do you say if she sees your real passport? My solution is to lock that shit up (Pacsafe or Kensington) along with every other license. Or just never bring her to the airport since she will be looking for clues if you are flying off to Dumaguete to see Girl #2.

If she announces a pregnancy, you are holding all the cards as you will be able to RATIONALLY decide if giving in to her will jeopardize your business. And in this day and age, nothing is more important to a man's business. Certainly none of this ridiculous 'international child support' fascism that leads to having passports revoked and careers ruined and men jumping off ledges (which the feminists applaud). This in turn means:

Fake YouTube/Twitter/Facebook profiles and pics for Ms. YouTwitFace
Never giving out your home phone number
Using burner phones if you can
Never giving out your relative's names or FB links
Using Truecrypt or Diskcryptor (both free) to encrypt your OS
Being vague about your hometown. Your parents. Your siblings. *Never* reveal their true names unless you trust this girl 200% - a trust that takes years to build.
A keylogger for when she uses your laptop/phone. There are commercial ones that are quite good and undetectable.

Yes it all sounds very Jason Bourne and way, way overkill, but then nine months is a helluva long time to deal with drama before getting a DNA test. You will likely want to see other girls in that stretch of time. Better to build your fortress of doom in the beginning rather than later. Know ahead of time what the game plan is, and better still (if you have the funds), have a Plan B, a Plan C, etc. Never write it down where she can see it. Oh and keep it simple. Complex plans tend to fall apart when the shit hits the fan.

The solution of course is to never let the shit hit the fan. Luck favors the prepared.

[turkishcandy]

When I read the original post I thought to myself ''Here is another case of a Russian woman tricking a man into being a father and a provider. Well, at least this time it's not a Turkish man'' until I clicked on the OP's profile... Damn it. Just like my own uncle... Anyway, here is my input:

1) No legal liability, only the moral one.

2) You have to choose between living with the guilt of pressuring her into having an abortion and having a bastard child in some foreign country. Though it seems like you've already made that choice. Personally, I would choose the former on any given day. I can't forgive myself if I ever abandon a baby that is a part of me, and it won't make me feel better no matter how much money I throw at its mother.

3) I hope for your sake she is beautiful. In that case you'll always have a backup plan.

[jariel]

(05-22-2015 01:31 PM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  

If both parties are equally responsible for contraception and an accident happens, then both parties ought to have a choice about what to do in case of pregnancy.

We need to dead the concept of an "accidental pregnancy".

If a woman is not on birth control and she has unprotected sex with a man, then a resulting pregnancy is not an accident.

The fact that it's not an accident is further proven when the woman moves forward with giving birth to the child, as it appears the woman in the OP's situation is likely to do.

[rudebwoy]

I would be curious to hear the back story on how the OP met this girl.

Was it in Russia or Sweden?

[Cheetah]

Quote:

I'm not seeing my kid, dont even know her name, but at least I'm still living my life on my terms, and not paying child support. I will still always regret her that I allowed her to have the kid.

Why?

Some people donate seed in return for money that will cover maybe a bottle service on a night out.

[Samseau]

(05-23-2015 02:17 PM)jariel Wrote:  

(05-22-2015 01:31 PM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  

If both parties are equally responsible for contraception and an accident happens, then both parties ought to have a choice about what to do in case of pregnancy.

We need to dead the concept of an "accidental pregnancy".

If a woman is not on birth control and she has unprotected sex with a man, then a resulting pregnancy is not an accident.

The fact that it's not an accident is further proven when the woman moves forward with giving birth to the child, as it appears the woman in the OP's situation is likely to do.

My Grandmother actually taught me this recently. I told her about my friend who got his girl preggo by accident and then got married to her.

My Grandma's response?

"THERE ARE NO ACCIDENTAL PREGNANCIES!"

This is coming from an 80+ year old woman, pretty hilarious. But absolutely true.