[Dusty]

Here's an article about single NYC women in their 30s and 40s pining for the 1960s dating culture found in Mad Men and lamenting the current hook-up culture.

Quote:

Why New York women wish they lived in the ‘Mad Men’ era

By Heather RobinsonMay 14, 2015

They fail to see how it was the rise of feminism that led to their fall. They fail to see that the Mad Man era of the 1960s was before feminism gained a foothold into our culture.

For them the problem is with "immature men" who don't feel especially chivalrous towards them and are not interested in marrying their sorry asses.

They fail to realize men don't want to be incel chumps. And they don't want to marry harpy career women.

Quote:

New York City career women in their 30s and 40s told me this week that in some ways life seemed easier back then for single women, and love was easier to find during our mothers’ day than it is now.

Melanie Notkin, cultural anthropologist and author of “Otherhood: Modern Women Finding a New Kind of Happiness,” said the women she interviewed, “no matter their race, ethnicity or cultural background, had similar concerns with dating — men didn’t plan dates, dressed down for dates, were no longer chivalrous.”

Men are responding to what works and gets rewarded by women (i.e., gets them laid) women complain it's the men who are at fault for the shallowness of the current dating/hookup culture.

Quote:

The proliferation of online dating sites and “hookup culture” — or decreased stigma around no-strings-attached sex between strangers — means that immature men’s playground is no longer just the halls of their office buildings. It’s the entire city.

Says Ellie, 42, a student on Manhattan’s East Side who used to work in publishing, “Technology is supposed to bring people closer, but especially in the context of dating it pushes people further apart. It used to be a guy had to call and leave a message and you called him back and you made a date.”

Now, says Ellie, it’s just “texting that leads nowhere.”

“I think there was more respect for marriage and family life during” the 1950s and early 1960s, Ellie added. “I wish I could travel backward to a simpler time.” [Dusty: To pre-feminism?]

Quote:

Is it possible that some of the wild enthusiasm for “Mad Men” among viewers stems from a yearning for the satisfaction and sexiness of traditional sex roles, including chivalry?

“When I watch ‘Mad Men,’ I think, ‘Wouldn’t it have been great to date a man who knows what he likes to drink, who pulls out the chair, who dresses up and is clean shaven and at least wears a sport jacket?’ It’s sexy,” said Notkin.

Quote:

“Although in many ways he’s despicable, in certain ways many of us find Don Draper attractive,” Notkin said, adding that the character Joan — the office bombshell — resonates with some female viewers because “we are craving the power of our femininity.”

Ultimately most women want equality with men, and value the increased legal protection from sexual harassment in the workplace of the type dramatized in “Mad Men.”

After hours, though, some of us long for men who can treat us not only as equals to be respected, but as women to be desired — and cherished.

[rpg]

Roosh nailed it a while back. Choice corrupts women. I see it proved true every hour of every day. When men quit choo[/i]sing women, women go nuts.

[N°6]

For the article to make sense, these women now in their 30s and 40s, would need to have the views they held in their 20s referenced.

This would allow the reader to learn how these women acted - not in the Mad Men era - but in the era of Sex and the City when they could have married a dozen suitors.

[Game_Started]

:: paging Gavin McInnes ::

[Dusty]

It's always funny when the cock carousel stops, to see how dumbfounded broads are realizing feminism was a sham.

[Basil Ransom]

Axiom #1 of tribal thinking: The Things We Don't Like cannot be caused by The Things We Like.

If you determine that Something We Like has caused Something We Don't Like, you are wrong, see Axiom #1.

It's an ad-libs game. Just fill in the blanks. Divorce, feminism. War, "Being Tough on Terror" - it works for both left and right. Typically for social issues, the left is guilty, the right for foreign policy issues, and libertarians for immigration.

Maybe you find a really honest tribesman and back him into an intellectual corner. He will issue:

The Really Honest Tribesman's Concession

"Ok, maybe the Thing We Liked caused The Thing We Don't Like. But... we cannot Turn Back The Clock back now. It is Too Late."

Why not? Of course you can "turn back the clock." What the tribesman is really saying is that he prefers having the current dysfunction than admitting his ideology is flawed, destructive and unattainable. The tribesman will have to renounce his tribe wholesale, and typically take up a new one, before he will do so. But his whole life is invested in the tribe and its way of life (e.g. the career woman), so this is very difficult and unlikely, except at critical junctures of his life, where he may choose which cultural tribe to declare his fealty to (e.g. when a woman goes to college, or gets married). Plus even the honest tribesman will concede only when the error of his ways becomes exceedingly apparent and abundant, and not before - projections of the consequences of his approach hold no weight with him, no matter how well grounded.

[Grange]

I always found the popularity of Mad Men encouraging for that reason. Millions of career girls tuned in to get slick by this retrograde culture and its star, Don Draper. Deep down they feel the contradiction between their natures and the choices they've made but it's hard to acknowledge you've been lied to about everything by the people you look up to. So an hour a week is all they get.

While RVF is always lamenting the next crazy feminist thing I really think the pendulum will swing back in 20 or 30 years. There will be plenty of spinsters avaiable to write books about how they should have done it differently

[HighSpeed_LowDrag]

The first rule of the Game is "never trust what a woman says."
The second rule of the Game is "always trust what a woman does."

The guys that call, that bring flowers, that do all the stereotypical, romance-y "nice guy" stuff get left in the friend-zone.
The "bad boys" that take her to a cheap dive bar, spit tight game and then bang her out against the back-alley dumpster are the ones that get girls' attention.

Bed, made, lie ... or some such thing.

[Foolsgo1d]

So they want freedom of sexuality and men to go out of their way? They already have those and they do not reward guys en-masse who do that stuff because the men doing it are either not attractive to these women or they are clueless and can't get laid.

I've been involved with city life in four different cities in the UK and the one thing that was obvious was sex for men who knew what was up was easy. I cannot imagine how easy it would be in NYC or London.

[Captainstabbin]

Quote:

similar concerns with dating — men didn’t plan dates, dressed down for dates, were no longer chivalrous.”

Any time a feminist uses the word "Chivalry", she means she wants men to treat her like a princess without her having to act in a particular way or do anything to earn that treatment.

Quote:

It used to be a guy had to call and leave a message and you called him back and you made a date.”
“I wish I could travel backward to a simpler time.” [Dusty: To pre-feminism?]

She wants a "simpler" time when men had to pursue her and she found it easier to keep a few as a friendzone backup plan.

Quote:

Is it possible that some of the wild enthusiasm for “Mad Men” among viewers stems from a yearning for the satisfaction and sexiness of traditional sex roles, including chivalry?

Again, "Chivalry"

Quote:

“When I watch ‘Mad Men,’ I think, ‘Wouldn’t it have been great to date a man who knows what he likes to drink, who pulls out the chair, who dresses up and is clean shaven and at least wears a sport jacket?’ It’s sexy,” said Notkin.

“Although in many ways he’s despicable, in certain ways many of us find Don Draper attractive,” Ultimately most women want equality with men, and value the increased legal protection from sexual harassment in the workplace of the type dramatized in “Mad Men.”

After hours, though, some of us long for men who can treat us not only as equals to be respected, but as women to be desired — and cherished.

Really, so she's attracted to the good looking, alcoholic, womanizing rich guy?

So, equality isn't enough - she wants to be treated BETTER than men. Again, without earning it.

I agree with an earlier post. I wonder if she had the same attitude when she was young enough to ride the carousel? Or is she wanting some other kind of relationship only after realizing her sexual appeal is lost.

These broads need to realize that their sexual years are the time to build goodwill with men - NOT a time to bitch and moan and use their vagina to manipulate.

[player]

Sadly they don't seem to allow comments.

There's a really fantastic comment in a recent post on AlphaGamePlan that explains men's side of the story. It's old news for RVF, but I wanted to share it at the NYPost to try to help those yentas understand what's happening (aka cast pearls to swine). The comment deserves sharing widely.

Cadders at AlphaGamePlan Wrote:

Feminism is already a dead man (woman?) walking.

All feminism has is shaming language and the state (ironically, ultimately other men) to keep men to the feminist line.

But now, increasingly, the shaming doesn't work. And men are dis-engaging from society in general to avoid entanglements with the state; if you don't get married, you can't be divorced, if you don't co-habit you can't have half your stuff appropriated, if you don't have children, you can't be on the hook for child support, if you don't enter the corporate world you can't be be accused of 'harassment' and if you don't date you drastically reduce your chance of a false rape accusation.

These are genuine threat-points for men in the modern world that didn't exist before feminism. It speaks to the feeble minds of feminists that they would think that men will simply carry on as they did when these threats did not exist. For the last 50 years men (mostly) still did. But that's over now.

So men are doing what they have always done, survey their environment, understand it, and behave rationally according to it. Which means, increasingly, living their lives without regard to what women want. This does not mean living without sex, relationships or female company. Just that the investment men make in all these areas is being dramatically reduced.

As feminism reduces the value of women (in men's eyes), so men are reducing the amount of time, effort, attention and money they are willing to spend for the declining 'benefits' modern women now bring to their lives.

But the real news is that the true cost of feminism, firstly born by men, and then children, is now being passed on to women. Record numbers of women are living alone, record numbers of women are childless, record numbers are on psychiatric medication, record numbers are facing a life-time of wage slavery in grinding jobs that they can never leave. And still feminism spins these outcomes as the conscious choices of these women and as 'empowering'.

And yet, women's self reported happiness, across all classes, all races, all demographics is lower than ever since records began 50 years ago. Tellingly, for the first time ever, they are also now lower than men's.

But you do not need to read 'The Paradox of Declining Female Happiness' to know this. Just talk to the increasing number of 30 and 40 year old childless spinsters one on one - not in a group - to get the REAL story.The REAL effect of feminism in the REAL world. These women don't give two hoots about feminism, they are just wondering where all the good husbands, hell ANY decent man, went.

Mostly, disgusted with what feminism has done to women, he walked away.

For the truth is that men don't want to fight women, it goes against the core of what it means to be a man. But feminism thrust men into a fight that they neither started nor wanted. To the point that feminists are reduced to crowing about 'winning' battles that men never turned up for.

And even now, as feminism pushes and pushes and pushes to ever more absurd levels, as ever more restrictions are placed on normal masculine behavior, ever more insane definitions of 'rape', 'assault', and 'aggression' are drafted into law in increasingly desperate attempts to somehow, anyhow, cast women as perpetual victims - even now - men are still refusing to be drawn into a real battle.

That's how deeply men do not want to fight women.

The sound of the final battle between the sexes will not be heard in the streets or legislatures. It will not be televised or reported. There will be no flags hoisted or victory parades.

Because it is already in progress. It is happening all around us in plain sight, for those with the eyes to see it.

And men are deploying the most devastating weapon of all - indifference. In this final battle who cares least wins.

The time has gone to reap the harvest of feminism, and for women the fruit will be bitterest of all.

[Grange]

Immature men: I don't make the rules, I just do what it takes to get laid.
Mature women: I want to have my cake and eat it too.

"Maturity" is relative.

[HeyPete]

The thing is, even if these dumb broads came across a man that "knows what he likes to drink, pulls out chairs ... and at least wears a sports coat."

They would turn him down for being boring. Or a dinosaur. Or stuck in the 60's.

Fuck all these old bitches. I hope they remain bitter. I'll just laugh,

[Dusty]

Quote:

Melanie Notkin, cultural anthropologist and author of “Otherhood: Modern Women Finding a New Kind of Happiness,” said the women she interviewed, “no matter their race, ethnicity or cultural background, had similar concerns with dating — men didn’t plan dates, dressed down for dates, were no longer chivalrous.”

I searched this woman's name and found a video of her, and I was hoping to eviscerate her, but she in fact tickles the truth a little and sort of blames feminism for all the single ladies, even blames Lean In, and does acknowledge that most women would be much happier to be married and have children.

Starting around 2:13.

WB. She doesn't look bad for her age. But WNLTR.

If I met a girl like this from Match.com or something, I would immediately rule her out for a LTR (within seconds), but would try to P&D. She's not unpleasant or anything (in fact she sees rather good natured and cheerful) but she has some kind of..I don't know how to describe it...Sex and the City vibe about her that just immediately puts her in the P&D slot.

[Richard Cory]

That posting from AlphaGamePlan is thought provoking. Especially the 2nd to last sentence.

"The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference."
-Elie Wiesel

[Captainstabbin]

(05-17-2015 07:39 PM)Dusty Wrote:  

I think what you're hearing out of Melanie is her realization that she can't compete with the younger girls anymore and trying to signal to men that she's no longer acting like a self-absorbed cunt.

But listen to her reasoning:

Quote:

No woman has turned down a proposal from a man she loves because she has a conference call

Maybe not literally a single conference call, but that is what a woman is doing when she puts career over family.

And:

Quote:

They can't control when they fall in love.

Ha! What they can't do is get the billionaire bad boy who, after meeting her, becomes completely obedient. So they wait and wait and keep riding the carousel until they see the wall - then settle for the next chump who comes along.

After listening to her speak I noticed 2 things - 1. No vocal fry (which is good), 2. In her whole talk she never said one thing she wants to do for a man. Never mentioned why she'd be a great wife or mother, no mention of what she'd do differently to keep a man. No, just, "I'm ready now. Boring millionaire I knew back when I was fertile - I'm ready for marriage now. I still have no qualities that would make me a good wife, if this speaking tour works out I'll probably delay marriage another 5 years, I'm too old for children and I'm still dedicated feminist but I'm ready. I'm ready for you all to line up like in my youth...any takers?" Crickets...

[jariel]

I have nothing to add other than that there are some fire comments in this thread.

I think every one deserves a "like".

Great discussion guys.

[samsamsam]

I stopped watching when she said that there were many women like her educated, successful and fabulous. It was the last word fabulous that got me. And the face that looks like it will fall apart soon.

When someone thinks they are fabulous or amazing it means they are deluded. If any guy here said "I am amazing" he would get an earful from a bunch of guys. But woman let each other say those stupid words and actually encourage it. They have no ability to properly assess beauty etc. That or they just lie very convincingly. Making it seem like they actually believe what they are saying. It is rare for me to be told by a female that her friend is beautiful and it actually being the case.

To make matters worse to compensate for inability to be objective and humble, they overdo it on their expectations of men and what they think they deserve. Maybe it doesn't really compensate. Actually it is just two slices of old white bread with nothing in the middle. Which is what these women have nothing.

[samsamsam]

Dupe

[samsamsam]

Damn dupe again. Grrrr.

[The_CEO]

It's hard to get through the "fabulous" parts but at some point in the vid she laments that women were encouraged to act more like men (more masculine) and men were encouraged to "lean back" and not lead, and that this screwed up the male-femaled dynamic.
Implicitly she's calling for men to be more masculine and women more feminine.

[Quintus Curtius]

It never ceases to amaze me that these women will do anything to avoid talking about the root cause of their complaints:

Men were systematically conditioned, shamed, and forced to stop behaving in the old-fashioned ways.

They can thank their feminist sisters, the corporate media culture, Hollywood, and the educational system for producing the state of affairs we see today.

Of course none of them will do that. So let them stew in their own spinsterhood.

[N°6]

A very significant and apt video from Sandman on this subject. Why? It is based on the experiences of a heterosexual man who has had a genuine (i.e. not a Beta/ White Knight) longterm friendship with a woman who is now panicking. Being as close as her brother, this man has complete knowledge of her carousel days and how she banged two housemates on the same day.

Quote:

Female Panic - MGTOW

"Hi Sandman, This is Chris from Austin. I am 33 now, and as I've been following MGTOW for a year. It is very interesting to get a front row seat of the carousel hitting the wall. I have a female friend who is also my age and lives in another state. We've been friends since the 8th grade. We've never dated, and I view her as a sister. And we tell each other everything. She's never been married and was once upon a time very good looking in her 20's. She still maintains a healthy body, but her age is starting to show especially with no makeup on. She's also a very astute businesswoman, but her romantic life is one flaming disaster after another, and I hear everything about it. And, no, I'm not secretly white knighting, and hoping to win her affections. Rather, I'm enjoying this candid learning opportunity. I am, after all, MGTOW for life. In her 20's she was the typical sorority girl and then a carousel rider in the company we both worked at. As an example, I was witness to her intimate with 2 guys we worked with, who were roommates, in the same day. She also told me she wouldn't be with a guy because she didn't like the size of his package. That's the type of girl she was/still is. Now, in her 30's, guys will still be intimate with her (too many to count), but these 'relationships' end, usually with the guy pursuing another girl. Which crushes and torments my friend. She has become absolutely unglued. She asks me, 'Why won't anyone see value in me?!' and also blames her insecurities on her bad relationship with her father. Its gotten to the point where she asked if she could send me revealing images of herself so I can critique her body. She's fully convinced if she was just a bit skinnier, it would all work out. I said no to the pictures, and she's perfectly in shape. The last guy she was with is a self made millionaire, who dumped her for a slightly OLDER yet prettier woman. I'm guessing her profound remorse has more to do with the resources she messed up getting, than the potential romance. Although she constantly told me how lucky the guy was and that she wasn't the type of girl to focus on his money. This is the epitome of how I've read how it goes. Pretty girl rides carousel in 20's, gets constant validation and guys chasing her, yet nothing concrete develops. The Girl enters her 30's, starts to lose the battle with younger women, yet still has the high standards when she was in her prime. She can't get anyone to commit and I suspect she isn't as focused on romance as she claims, but more on her window of opportunity on kids and locking down a husband with resources is narrowing everyday. MGTOW talk a lot about marriage and divorce, but these never-married 30 year old women is desperation I've never seen. They would never be this needy at 25 years old. I don't have the heart to tell her, when she calls me crying (actually wailing), what's really going on -- that her arrogance has caught up with her.

A revealing comment from a student of a British university:

McLovin Life Wrote:

I'm a university student in the U.K., recently there was a study within our institution which showed the average number of partners for girls 21 and below was 30.

30.

Who the hell wants that shit?

I met a student - a safe 7 - in Belfast, a more conservative part of the UK (Calvinist and Roman Catholic). At 21, she had 20 notches. What age is the average man when he reaches 20 - if ever?

[Eskhander]

Relevant: http://nypost.com/2015/04/27/city-birth-...epression/

Lowest birth rates since the Great Depression.
Except for the Ultra Orthodox Jewish community (likely any religious community but they're more of a staple so it sticks out). It's like a microcosm of the developed world.

[jariel]

(05-18-2015 12:02 AM)N°6 Wrote: