[Spectrumwalker]

Beast first and foremost it's late and I'm beat. I realize there are some references you quoted to which it looks like I'm responding to your words. That's just how it came out with something I did and I ain't gonna fix it. It is what it is so pardon my laziness.

(10-20-2017 01:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Regardless, their arguments were easily muted when I told them to stop reading verses out of context which is a religious pet peeve of mine, which ironically you've done.

How in the world did I take those two verses out of context. All I did was compare and contrast the difference between versions to the highlight the differences.

The nicene creed, what about it? I'm afraid I'm not really tracking you there. For one I don't believe in this global enigmatic catholic church. After leaving the Anglican church, I won't utter those words ever again.

(10-20-2017 01:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

The best way to argue with a Muslim is to flip the argument back on them. How well are they living the life of Mohammid? Any slight deviation, especially in regards to Jihad, is a path to hell. Full stop, no questions asked.

That works to obviously, but why not stick to the basis of both religions holy books as your source to defend the faith. Don't bring a knife to gun fight, if you got ammo use it. And about living like Mohammed, well same can be said of most Christians. Hell, look at me; I ain't no shining example of Christianity, but nonethless I still know where I'm headed if my horse throws me headfirst into a pile of rocks.The difference is Muslims, like many Christians, believe in works salvation and to live a life of trying to have their good deeds outweigh their bad. And because most Christians use vandalized Bibles which make Christianity seem like works salvation that's usually the type of Christianity they are confronted with.
You are right, Christianity has no purity doctrine like Islam. I've never said otherwise. Christisnity ain't about rule following, it's about salvation to which the modern Bibles editors have destroyed making it harder for people to understand often leading to works or "lordship salvation". The belief you must stop sinning to be saved. Granted there are unfortunately KJV only churches which preach lordship salvation. They are usually the ones out with colorful sandwich boards and loudspeakers being obnoxious.

(10-20-2017 01:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Moving on, I've been down this path before at a previous church. To be honest, then I stated that this debate is inconsequential in the grander world of issues troubling the church and I feel the same today.

Inconsquequential? come on man. Look at 1 John 5:7 and you tell me which bible better clearly illustrates the triune nature of God. I say this with respect Beast, but how you or any Christian can sit there and try and argue away that verse in the King James just absolutely flabbergasts me. Or any verse for that matter. The topic of which Bibles to use today would probably be the most important topic in all the religion. The troubles that plague Christianity today can be directly traced to the types of Bibles being used. People want good feelings instead of tough love and tough medicine which only the King James delivers as the others take out words of strength.

And most importantly the message ofalvation is directly affected by these bibles. Look at 1st Corinthians 1:18 from the KJV.

“For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.”

Now the same with the NIV. "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.”

That's only one of multitudes

Which one gives clarity and certainty? God is not a God of confusion. The NIV makes salvation a procress which is works. Salvation is a one time event. Jesus said just as you born once of water (birth) you are born once of the spirit. You are born into this world on one day, in one instant in time. Same with salvation.

(10-20-2017 01:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Here's a great resource by theologian Danial Wallace that I used then and feel is relevant to what we're discussing today that is written from the perspective of someone who works in a setting where these questions get asked all of the time.

And why listen to this man? Is he smarther than God himself? You have no idea what's in his heart. Back when I was first interested in religion I would always cling to outside sources and authors to understand of the Bible. Many do, it's only natural. The Bible is a big book and for many not easy to wrap your head around. Until you simply quit doubting, and believe.

(10-20-2017 01:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

In short, each new translation of the bible doesn't change the core message (IE go against any of the creeds we state each Sunday). I challenge you to find places that run contrary to this.

I don't state any creeds because I'm not Catholic or catholic light. But what the Catholic bibles have done, is again alter salvation. I could find verses all day for you. I won't as I'm already getting a headache from my phone trying to format all this. hah.

(10-20-2017 01:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

It should be said, having a dogmatic approach to a particular Biblical translation on the basis of it being "pure" doctrine is similar to Islam's adherence to requiring believers to learn Arabic in order to really understand. I find it the height of hubris that you claim my efforts and encouragement to learn Koine Greek and biblical Hebrew relate in any way to the satanic trash peddled by common Imans.

Well it's better to be a legalist than a compromiser. It it ain't fun to say but that's why Islam is expanding and Christianity is shrinking. It would be a good thing for a more dogmatic approach to our religion and actually have pastors with balls to stand up and preach. I don't see thay happening anytime soon. About learning greek, well you said it. I find it the height of hubris and pride if one needs to tout they have to learn greek im order to truly understand the Bible like you're a secret sect or something.

(10-20-2017 01:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Do you realize that every pastor in every denomination learns how to read and translate these very languages?

Yes and most aren't saved as they have the same response as a Muslim or Jew when asked if they know for sure where they will go when they die. Their seminary studies and greek and hebrew learning is all in vain. They spend thousands of dollars for an education at marxist infiltrated seminaries when all they need to pay is 25 bucks for a KJV and go find a quiet spot to sit and read. Just them the KJV and the holy spirit.

(10-20-2017 01:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

This is my favorite little historical tidbit that KJV only people are unaware of. Which revision is the inspired word? I await your answer SW.

The one right here next to me.

(10-20-2017 01:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Seventh, those who advocate that the KJV has exclusive rights to being called the Holy Bible are always, curiously, English-speaking people (normally isolated Americans).

He means real Americans? hah. That sounds like a snide leftist remark at rural conservatives. Fuck him. I bet his religious worldview is shaped by his politics.

Whoever said that is more full of shit than a fricken cow truck.
The first Bible produced en masse just happened to be English. Which also just happened to forge the world. But every language has their own copy of the true Bible based off the KJV and underlying receptus manuscripts. I speak spanish and have spent time in south America. The spanish language has the Reina Valera Gomez 2010 which is identical to the the KJV. The KJV only argument does not stop at the borders of anglo countries.

(10-20-2017 01:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Some good questions asked here, Luther was the unquestionable father of the reformation. Would Henry the 8th be so bombastic to break away from the Catholic Church had Luther never existed?

Luther and Lutherans believe in works salvation even though they say othewise. If you can lose your salvation, that means you had to do something to lose it. Which means like a muslim you're on eggshells trying to be good. Luther wasn't saved and is irrelevant to the faith.

(10-20-2017 01:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

What about other translations of the bible that predate the KJV such as Luther's bible? China is quickly becoming a very large Christian country. Are we also to assume that all of these translations are inferior to the KJV? That the infallible word of God can only be heard in English?
Gosh that sounds a lot like how the Koran, the infallible word of God, can only be understood and read in Arabic!

Did you not read what I wrote man. At the tower of Babel God spread people to the corners of the earth and confounded their languages. God wants nations and languages. I never said such a thing. In fact the opposite. It's Muslims who claim you have you have to learn arabic to truly understand the quran. And I could be mistakin but it sounds like you are the one saying the same thing. "learn greek and Hebrew to truly umderstand..."

(10-20-2017 01:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

. One can get saved reading the KJV and one can get saved reading the NIV, NASB, etc.

I've yet to meet someone who was doctrinally sound on salvation and the eternal certainty of their salvation who carries anything but a KJV.

(10-20-2017 01:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Which I agree wholeheartedly. The differences you outlined above are so minuscule they don't change the meaning at all unless you're letting a Muslim control the debate with semantics and not spirit.

Absolutely amazing you can sit there and say that.

(10-20-2017 01:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Those who vilify the modern translations and the Greek texts behind them have evidently never really investigated the data. Their appeals are based largely on emotion, not evidence.

I wouldn't call it emotion, I'd say righteous anger is more appropriate. Just like with atheists if your constantly looking for evidence you'll always be disapointed. Truth be told I don't give a damn about Erasmus. What I know is I believe it unlikely this earth and life is an accdint and somewhere there has to be message from its creator. If God wanted men like Erasmus or the translators to be in the right place at the right moment in history to produce a Bible for the world then that's how it happened. What I do know is there is power and strength in the KJ that the other Bibles so called don't have. Anything from God will be powerful. There's a reason hardline old school conservative churches stick with the KJV and liberal churches where the men look, act, talk, and dress like soy fags trash the KJV. Strength recognizes strength, and weakness rejects for fear of being exposed. Muslims and Christians with little belief fail to give God the credit for being able to successfully get humanity his message. Call that circular reasoning or ignorance on my part then so be it. I'm happy to be a troglodyte then.

(10-20-2017 01:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

The question of why the church is falling apart, in my opinion, is caused by the failings of Church Leaders to deliver tough love and explain consequences in terms that people understand. People seek out churches because they sense stagnation in their midst, yet too many churches are "nice" and don't deliver tough messages that people need to grow spiritually.

The churches that are growing (Joel Ostein for example) have tough messages that force people to admit to their failings and look for strength in Christ to help change them.


The churches that are growing (Joel Ostein for example) have tough messages that force people to admit to their failings and look for strength in Christ to help change them.

Something I guess we can agree on.Yes people want to feel good themselvres instead of securing eternity. Go into the churches its all self love, ra ra ra, and not single sermon on salvation. Osteens going to split hell wide open. The solution is simple. Preachers grab a KJV, preach it literally instead of making pitiful excuses for unbelief and let the chips fall where they may. Look on the bright side you'll get antifa protesting you just like they would have in Jesus's time.

(10-20-2017 01:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

...is missing the point in the grander scheme that is God's plan for this world.

And just what praytell is God's plan for this world in your opinion.

[The Beast1]

Bud you need to take my whole post and not simply comment on my words because the bolded text directly answers all of your rebuttals . You've done nothing to argue against the proof I posted. It was a very lazy response indeed!

Take the time to read it in its entirety and post back when you're rested.

[Spectrumwalker]

(10-20-2017 08:39 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Bud you need to take my whole post and not simply comment on my words because the bolded text directly answers all of your rebuttals . You've done nothing to argue against the proof I posted. It was a very lazy response indeed!

Take the time to read it in its entirety and post back when you're rested.

What proof? May have been a little lazy; but also entirely sufficient. I've made my points.

[The Beast1]

If you insist my friend...

(10-20-2017 07:43 PM)Spectrumwalker Wrote:  

Beast first and foremost it's late and I'm beat. I realize there are some references you quoted to which it looks like I'm responding to your words. That's just how it came out with something I did and I ain't gonna fix it. It is what it is so pardon my laziness.

(10-20-2017 01:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Regardless, their arguments were easily muted when I told them to stop reading verses out of context which is a religious pet peeve of mine, which ironically you've done.

How in the world did I take those two verses out of context. All I did was compare and contrast the difference between versions to the highlight the differences.

The nicene creed, what about it? I'm afraid I'm not really tracking you there. For one I don't believe in this global enigmatic catholic church. After leaving the Anglican church, I won't utter those words ever again.

Do you understand what the word catholic even means in the nicene creed? You obviously have no idea what you're talking about or the meaning behind the greek word catholic.

(10-20-2017 07:43 PM)Spectrumwalker Wrote:  

(10-20-2017 01:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

The best way to argue with a Muslim is to flip the argument back on them. How well are they living the life of Mohammid? Any slight deviation, especially in regards to Jihad, is a path to hell. Full stop, no questions asked.

That works to obviously, but why not stick to the basis of both religions holy books as your source to defend the faith. Don't bring a knife to gun fight, if you got ammo use it. And about living like Mohammed, well same can be said of most Christians. Hell, look at me; I ain't no shining example of Christianity, but nonethless I still know where I'm headed if my horse throws me headfirst into a pile of rocks.The difference is Muslims, like many Christians, believe in works salvation and to live a life of trying to have their good deeds outweigh their bad. And because most Christians use vandalized Bibles which make Christianity seem like works salvation that's usually the type of Christianity they are confronted with.
You are right, Christianity has no purity doctrine like Islam. I've never said otherwise. Christisnity ain't about rule following, it's about salvation to which the modern Bibles editors have destroyed making it harder for people to understand often leading to works or "lordship salvation". The belief you must stop sinning to be saved. Granted there are unfortunately KJV only churches which preach lordship salvation. They are usually the ones out with colorful sandwich boards and loudspeakers being obnoxious.

The reason modern Christians believe in this works based crap is because of a laziness to actually read the new testament, a lack of participation in church, culminating in a world of ignorance about what it takes to reach salvation. Most Christian's don't attend church weekly and don't even have a good understanding of what the bible says and yet you place the blame squarely on what bible they're reading? Here's a hint, no one actually reads these texts.

In none of the modern biblical translations will you find "works" based salvation or any claims thereof. Your citations make no sense to me and I fail to see what endgame you're trying to get. The message has not changed between any of them nor is the trinity downplayed AT ALL. I still see the message of a triune God.

(10-20-2017 07:43 PM)Spectrumwalker Wrote:  

(10-20-2017 01:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Moving on, I've been down this path before at a previous church. To be honest, then I stated that this debate is inconsequential in the grander world of issues troubling the church and I feel the same today.

Inconsquequential? come on man. Look at 1 John 5:7 and you tell me which bible better clearly illustrates the triune nature of God. I say this with respect Beast, but how you or any Christian can sit there and try and argue away that verse in the King James just absolutely flabbergasts me. Or any verse for that matter. The topic of which Bibles to use today would probably be the most important topic in all the religion. The troubles that plague Christianity today can be directly traced to the types of Bibles being used. People want good feelings instead of tough love and tough medicine which only the King James delivers as the others take out words of strength.

And most importantly the message ofalvation is directly affected by these bibles. Look at 1st Corinthians 1:18 from the KJV.

“For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.”

Now the same with the NIV. "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.”

That's only one of multitudes

Which one gives clarity and certainty? God is not a God of confusion. The NIV makes salvation a procress which is works. Salvation is a one time event. Jesus said just as you born once of water (birth) you are born once of the spirit. You are born into this world on one day, in one instant in time. Same with salvation.

There's absolutely nothing confusing between either. The message is the same. To which I reply:

Quote:

Second, the Greek text which stands behind the King James Bible is demonstrably inferior in certain places. The man who edited the text was a Roman Catholic priest and humanist named Erasmus.1 He was under pressure to get it to the press as soon as possible since (a) no edition of the Greek New Testament had yet been published, and (b) he had heard that Cardinal Ximenes and his associates were just about to publish an edition of the Greek New Testament and he was in a race to beat them. Consequently, his edition has been called the most poorly edited volume in all of literature! It is filled with hundreds of typographical errors which even Erasmus would acknowledge. Two places deserve special mention. In the last six verses of Revelation, Erasmus had no Greek manuscript (=MS) (he only used half a dozen, very late MSS for the whole New Testament any way). He was therefore forced to ‘back-translate’ the Latin into Greek and by so doing he created seventeen variants which have never been found in any other Greek MS of Revelation! He merely guessed at what the Greek might have been.

Your lack of background in how these texts came to be is astounding. The Trinity is clearly conveyed between all of the sources. I don't see what you're getting at.

(10-20-2017 07:43 PM)Spectrumwalker Wrote:  

(10-20-2017 01:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Here's a great resource by theologian Danial Wallace that I used then and feel is relevant to what we're discussing today that is written from the perspective of someone who works in a setting where these questions get asked all of the time.

And why listen to this man? Is he smarther than God himself? You have no idea what's in his heart. Back when I was first interested in religion I would always cling to outside sources and authors to understand of the Bible. Many do, it's only natural. The Bible is a big book and for many not easy to wrap your head around. Until you simply quit doubting, and believe.

Because I got tired of being told to just blindly accept faith by fools like yourself and wished to seek out what hundreds of years of religious tradition from pastors, theologians, and seminarians believe following in the tradition of great spiritual leaders before them. No offense, but I'll take the writings and beliefs of true church leaders over the ravings of a KJV only loon.

(10-20-2017 07:43 PM)Spectrumwalker Wrote:  

(10-20-2017 01:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

In short, each new translation of the bible doesn't change the core message (IE go against any of the creeds we state each Sunday). I challenge you to find places that run contrary to this.

I don't state any creeds because I'm not Catholic or catholic light. But what the Catholic bibles have done, is again alter salvation. I could find verses all day for you. I won't as I'm already getting a headache from my phone trying to format all this. hah.

Crap in, crap out which is just what i'd come to expect from a KJV only. Maybe try better next time?

(10-20-2017 07:43 PM)Spectrumwalker Wrote:  

(10-20-2017 01:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

It should be said, having a dogmatic approach to a particular Biblical translation on the basis of it being "pure" doctrine is similar to Islam's adherence to requiring believers to learn Arabic in order to really understand. I find it the height of hubris that you claim my efforts and encouragement to learn Koine Greek and biblical Hebrew relate in any way to the satanic trash peddled by common Imans.

Well it's better to be a legalist than a compromiser. It it ain't fun to say but that's why Islam is expanding and Christianity is shrinking. It would be a good thing for a more dogmatic approach to our religion and actually have pastors with balls to stand up and preach. I don't see thay happening anytime soon. About learning greek, well you said it. I find it the height of hubris and pride if one needs to tout they have to learn greek im order to truly understand the Bible like you're a secret sect or something.

Those pastors exist very much exist and are in the Christian groups who actively forbid gays from marrying and disallow female clergy. I'm glad you found such a group, but it's a shame it's in the vein of a KJV onlier.

(10-20-2017 01:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Do you realize that every pastor in every denomination learns how to read and translate these very languages?

Yes and most aren't saved as they have the same response as a Muslim or Jew when asked if they know for sure where they will go when they die. Their seminary studies and greek and hebrew learning is all in vain. They spend thousands of dollars for an education at marxist infiltrated seminaries when all they need to pay is 25 bucks for a KJV and go find a quiet spot to sit and read. Just them the KJV and the holy spirit.
[/quote]

I'm sorry that you've had a litany of horrific pastors in your life in the Anglican tradition. No pastors in my Lutheran tradition, from ELCA to LCMS have stated that works lead to salvation. The answer was always the same:

Am I going to heaven?

Answer: Do you believe that Jesus is the path to salvation?

Yes

Then you are, Jesus died for your sins.

It's that simple.

(10-20-2017 07:43 PM)Spectrumwalker Wrote:  

(10-20-2017 01:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

This is my favorite little historical tidbit that KJV only people are unaware of. Which revision is the inspired word? I await your answer SW.

The one right here next to me.

I think you should try and find a copy of the original revision, see if you think it's just as divinely inspired.

(10-20-2017 07:43 PM)Spectrumwalker Wrote:  

(10-20-2017 01:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Seventh, those who advocate that the KJV has exclusive rights to being called the Holy Bible are always, curiously, English-speaking people (normally isolated Americans).

He means real Americans? hah. That sounds like a snide leftist remark at rural conservatives. Fuck him. I bet his religious worldview is shaped by his politics.

Whoever said that is more full of shit than a fricken cow truck.
The first Bible produced en masse just happened to be English. Which also just happened to forge the world. But every language has their own copy of the true Bible based off the KJV and underlying receptus manuscripts. I speak spanish and have spent time in south America. The spanish language has the Reina Valera Gomez 2010 which is identical to the the KJV. The KJV only argument does not stop at the borders of anglo countries.

No, you are wrong. The Reina Valera bible is not a translation at all of the KJV. In fact, the Reina Valera came out in 1569, the KJV came out in 1604.

Did you research your reply at all because this came off as very foolish. I expect better of you.

(10-20-2017 07:43 PM)Spectrumwalker Wrote:  

(10-20-2017 01:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Some good questions asked here, Luther was the unquestionable father of the reformation. Would Henry the 8th be so bombastic to break away from the Catholic Church had Luther never existed?

Luther and Lutherans believe in works salvation even though they say othewise. If you can lose your salvation, that means you had to do something to lose it. Which means like a muslim you're on eggshells trying to be good. Luther wasn't saved and is irrelevant to the faith.

What the f*ck is this? No, they do not. You again are flat out wrong. Cite your bloody sources because nowhere in my Lutheran tradition are these falsehoods spouted. Is this what your Iman is telling you?

(10-20-2017 07:43 PM)Spectrumwalker Wrote:  

(10-20-2017 01:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

What about other translations of the bible that predate the KJV such as Luther's bible? China is quickly becoming a very large Christian country. Are we also to assume that all of these translations are inferior to the KJV? That the infallible word of God can only be heard in English?
Gosh that sounds a lot like how the Koran, the infallible word of God, can only be understood and read in Arabic!

Did you not read what I wrote man. At the tower of Babel God spread people to the corners of the earth and confounded their languages. God wants nations and languages. I never said such a thing. In fact the opposite. It's Muslims who claim you have you have to learn arabic to truly understand the quran. And I could be mistakin but it sounds like you are the one saying the same thing. "learn greek and Hebrew to truly umderstand..."

My goal of learning those languages is an effort to understand the message the translators were trying to achieve when writing your beloved KJV without the various liberties they added in by Catholic and pre-Anglican scribes almost like how your pastor was taught when he went to seminary.

(10-20-2017 07:43 PM)Spectrumwalker Wrote:  

(10-20-2017 01:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

. One can get saved reading the KJV and one can get saved reading the NIV, NASB, etc.

I've yet to meet someone who was doctrinally sound on salvation and the eternal certainty of their salvation who carries anything but a KJV.

I've yet to met a KJV onlier who isn't on the same level as a Muslim Jihadist.

(10-20-2017 07:43 PM)Spectrumwalker Wrote:  

(10-20-2017 01:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Which I agree wholeheartedly. The differences you outlined above are so minuscule they don't change the meaning at all unless you're letting a Muslim control the debate with semantics and not spirit.

Absolutely amazing you can sit there and say that.

I did and i'll say it again: the message of a path to salvation via Jesus and the trinity has not been obscured in any way. You've presented nothing that obscures this fact.

(10-20-2017 07:43 PM)Spectrumwalker Wrote:  

(10-20-2017 01:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Those who vilify the modern translations and the Greek texts behind them have evidently never really investigated the data. Their appeals are based largely on emotion, not evidence.

I wouldn't call it emotion, I'd say righteous anger is more appropriate. Just like with atheists if your constantly looking for evidence you'll always be disapointed. Truth be told I don't give a damn about Erasmus. What I know is I believe it unlikely this earth and life is an accdint and somewhere there has to be message from its creator. If God wanted men like Erasmus or the translators to be in the right place at the right moment in history to produce a Bible for the world then that's how it happened. What I do know is there is power and strength in the KJ that the other Bibles so called don't have. Anything from God will be powerful. There's a reason hardline old school conservative churches stick with the KJV and liberal churches where the men look, act, talk, and dress like soy fags trash the KJV. Strength recognizes strength, and weakness rejects for fear of being exposed. Muslims and Christians with little belief fail to give God the credit for being able to successfully get humanity his message. Call that circular reasoning or ignorance on my part then so be it. I'm happy to be a troglodyte then.

Hey man, I used to roll with a church that had an annoyingly vocal KJV only crew too. Whatever gets your spiritually willy hard, keep at it!

(10-20-2017 07:43 PM)Spectrumwalker Wrote:  

(10-20-2017 01:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

The question of why the church is falling apart, in my opinion, is caused by the failings of Church Leaders to deliver tough love and explain consequences in terms that people understand. People seek out churches because they sense stagnation in their midst, yet too many churches are "nice" and don't deliver tough messages that people need to grow spiritually.

The churches that are growing (Joel Ostein for example) have tough messages that force people to admit to their failings and look for strength in Christ to help change them.


The churches that are growing (Joel Ostein for example) have tough messages that force people to admit to their failings and look for strength in Christ to help change them.

Something I guess we can agree on.Yes people want to feel good themselvres instead of securing eternity. Go into the churches its all self love, ra ra ra, and not single sermon on salvation. Osteens going to split hell wide open. The solution is simple. Preachers grab a KJV, preach it literally instead of making pitiful excuses for unbelief and let the chips fall where they may. Look on the bright side you'll get antifa protesting you just like they would have in Jesus's time.

(10-20-2017 01:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

...is missing the point in the grander scheme that is God's plan for this world.

And just what praytell is God's plan for this world in your opinion.

To save fools like yourself and myself by accepting Jesus into their lives that's what!

Look SW, i'm happy you found salvation in your KJV. Good for you. Next time, why don't you do a little research yourself into the colorful history of Christianity. It adds to the foundation you've already built.

It'll also provide you the added benefit of making you look less like some guy shouting on a street corner and aid in helping you evangelize the message of Christ to the atheist intelligentsia that pervades most major cities.

[Spectrumwalker]

(10-20-2017 10:54 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

What the f*ck is this? No, they do not. You again are flat out wrong. Cite your bloody sources because nowhere in my Lutheran tradition are these falsehoods spouted. Is this what your Iman is telling you?

And what happens if you "fall from faith" as lutherns say? If you fall from faith you lose your salvation. Which means your actions play a part in your salvation. Eternal means eternal. Sure there may be some lutheran churches that go against the grain on this, but for the most part lutherans still believe in some amount of effort on the believers part to keep their faith or else be damned. That's works salvation. You know this and I know it. Be honest.

Here. Straight from the horses mouth.

https://www.lcms.org/about/beliefs/faqs/doctrine#lose

(10-20-2017 10:54 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

I've yet to met a KJV onlier who isn't on the same level as a Muslim Jihadist.

Haha. Yeah ok man. I'm pretty sure "KJV onliers" don't go around keeping sex slaves and chopping peoples heads off.

(10-20-2017 10:54 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

of being told to just blindly accept faith by fools like yourself and wished to seek out what hundreds of years of religious tradition from pastors, theologians, and seminarians believe following in the tradition of great spiritual leaders before them. No offense, but I'll take the writings and beliefs of true church leaders over the ravings of a KJV only loon.

You can believe in man, I'll believe in God. No offense was taken, but you got a lot nerve son. Absolutely out of line. If you're going to get riled up and start name calling, this discussion is over.

[Moto]

(10-20-2017 12:51 AM)Spectrumwalker Wrote:  

KJV:"But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you."

NIV: "But if I drive out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you."

Notice the difference? It's written with . In the others "by" means like on behalf of. A seprate extension of another entity. With means like in your possession. How could a man claim to cast out demons with the finger of God, if he himself was not actually God. Lord, lunatic or liar. It's one of the three. I'll never forget the first time I spoke with a Muslim about this verse and how it shows that Jesus was God in the flesh. He was at loss for words because he'd never seen it like that before. Same everytime after. It leaves em speechless.

1 John 5:7. KJV " For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

NIV: "For there are three that testify: the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement."

What complete and utter blasphemous garbage! No wonder Muslims say that Christians are polytheists with vandalized verses like with what's been done in the NIV. Which verse more clearly shows the triune nature of God? How a Christian could honestly defend any other bible after that? It makes me want to pull my hair out.

I just want to point out that with these particular verses, the Catholic Douay-Rheims Bible is the same as the KJV. Now of course most Catholic churches nowadays use modernized, perhaps bastardized versions, but not the NIV.

I came to the Catholic church in a roundabout way, first into shamanism and occult things in high school, dabbled a bit in Hinduism, Zen, then Gnosticism. In the end my heart is moved by gothic Catholic cathedrals, Gregorian chant, classical music written by Catholics, even the LoTR, so much more than Hindu mantras or any other fruits of other spiritualities.