[beta_plus]

The last two years have been tough for me professionally, with very long hours doing very complex work as a Data Analyst while being under constant threat of getting fired. This has begun to take a toll on me with mental exhaustion.

I get very mentally tired. It's not a tired that makes me want to sleep or that sleep does much to help. I usually just have to relax for at least a day for it to go away. My mind is just a fog and I just want to close my eyes. Sometimes the space behind my eyes feels hollow. I listen to audio books and interviews on youtube just so I don't have to use my eyes. It's taking a toll on working out, since I don't dare lift weights when I can't concentrate and usually have to settle for jogging.

Has anyone else had this? I realize the long term solution is to improve my employment situation, but I need to do something to get by in the meantime so I can work on doing that, especially on Friday when this usually hits the hardest. I thought about taking nootropics, but I have no idea what kind to use or if my situation is even something nootropics can really help you with.

[roberto]

Get yourself to the staff bathroom and run your head under the cold tap for at least a minute.

I'd just take a few kilos off the weights so you're a bit safer. Lifting weights will help no end.

Modafinil works for me but I'd recommend that you approach it with the mindset of 'right, I'm the best in this office, lets show them how it's done'. Take it with a strong coffee at the start of the day and power through. It's a bit like alcohol in my experience, if you're already on a 'downer' it might not help and may even hinder.

[The Lizard of Oz]

A few things.

The main thing you need to do is to maximize the benefits of the sleep you are getting. That is the single most important factor in being able to cope with mental fatigue and keep your health intact. To that end:

1. Strongly consider using bright light therapy to regularize and deepen your sleep. You can read about it in this thread:

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-39799.html

One thing that is common to guys who do a lot of mental work is that they sometimes have trouble turning it off and falling asleep. That is in particular something light therapy takes care of -- it more or less guarantees correct and timely sleep induction.

2. (This goes hand in hand with #1) Make sure your sleeping schedule is highly regular. You should be getting up and going to bed at very nearly the same times every day, including weekends. Do not make the mistake -- all too common to guys who work hard during the week -- of oversleeping on weekends and throwing your rhythm off. Using a light box (see #1) will help establish a very regular schedule, and also improve and deepen the sleep you are getting.

3. DO NOT ABUSE CAFFEINE. I cannot emphasize this strongly enough. Guys who do a lot of mental work make the mistake of leaning on caffeine to get them through the day, and this messes with your sleep and makes you more not less tired on average and over time.

You should not be drinking more than one cup of coffee a day, always in the first half of your day (never late) and never on an empty stomach. One cup after breakfast or after lunch is fine; do not exceed that.

4. Do not abuse alcohol, and other drugs. Forget about nootropics, you don't want to mess with that stuff. Keep your system clean and your body and brain will thank you over time.

5. Download the free utility f.lux and install it on all your devices at home and at work. You don't want to be staring into blue light monitors after dark, this will take care of that. Keeping f.lux on incandescent setting throughout the day (not just at night) will also relieve some of your eye strain.

https://justgetflux.com/

That's as far as sleep goes, and that is the absolute key. In addition, the following habits/tips will help you stay fresh through the day and generally help:

-- Do not overeat. Don't eat an excessively heavy lunch in the middle of the day, or a heavy dinner late. It's better to eat more often and smaller portions. Try to avoid junk and very high sodium restaurant food.

-- Get up from the computer every 30 minutes. No matter what you are doing, get up, walk around and do a few basic stretches. This is key -- you have to give your eyes a rest, and you have to give your body a rest from the bad postures it adopts when sitting in front of the monitor. A LOT of eye strain can be ameliorated by taking breaks. Look up some simple postural stretches you can do in the office or in the bathroom and do just a few throughout the day.

-- You should do your main weightlifting workouts on the weekend when you are fresh. If you can work out hard and effectively with weights both Saturday and Sunday that goes a very long way towards increasing your test levels and keeping your body in good shape. However:

-- Do not overdo it in the gym after a week of mental work; work out hard but safely. I see a lot of weekend warriors and cube jockeys, pale and having a bad posture, come into the gym and immediately try to lift heavy weights (with bad form) on something like the deadlift. That is a recipe for significant injury and for fucking up your body. If you are doing mental work all week, your body is probably not very flexible, has postural problems, and is primed for injury. You have to work out intelligently and balance the need to lift hard with being aware of what you can do. Err on the side of lighter weights and higher rep sets done with perfect form.

-- To counteract the postural problems that are likely to accompany this kind of mental work, use modalities like stretching, yoga, and massage. Do some basic stretches every day; take a hot shower or a hot bath when you get home, then get on the mat and do some stretches afterwards; sign up for a yoga class if you can fit it in your week; get deep tissue massage from a good professional masseur once a week. All these things will help keep your body flexible and supple and reduce the risk of injury when you lift (and in general).

***************

All of this seems like a lot but it really isn't -- and these things will make an immense and disproportionate difference in your day to day life. Check them out.

[Hades]

If your job is really grating you that badly, and you're in imminent threat of being fired anyway, maybe you should tell your boss to go fuck himself and find a different job.

[samsamsam]

I am not sure if you are in a position to go on a vacation. I have been carrying a heavy load for a while and I am grateful for weights and boxing but when I booked my flight the other day I noticed a huge surge in energy. Just things to get done before leaving and something to look forward to with a fixed date. A lot of my big projects would be awesome if they completed but the end date is subject to so many things.

[RexImperator]

Learn how to meditate. There are threads on it here. Eventually you'll reduce mental chatter during the day. Proven to relax the brain and reduce stress.

[Vaun]

(04-05-2015 01:12 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

Learn how to meditate. There are threads on it here. Eventually you'll reduce mental chatter during the day. Proven to relax the brain and reduce stress.

Your current problem and impending doom is very common among anyone in mid-senior level business management. I would say almost everyone is under the same pressure, its how you deal with it that counts. Because you expend so much energy day to day, things outside of work become that much harder to do.

Meditation can have a profound effect on you with minimal time investment. I use the Headspace App and like it a lot.

You need time off of everything when not at work. Solitude, procrastination and downtime are under-appreciated. You need to rest. Do nothing for a day. Shut off everything, or just cruise the web reading message boards, for an entire day. Just do whatever it is that pleases you. Of course this fly's in the face of the hyper adderall fueled extreme advice of lift>sprint>fast>party>bang>rinse>repeat>zen - you sort of are excluded from that group because frankly, you have too much other shit going on in your life.

Walking. Again, not extreme, but is easy enough, and yields good results. Walk for hours. Pick a city near you and walk. Or find a long trail that puts you out there for hours. Personally I do both. Talk on the phone, shop, eat, game, what ever I feel like in the moment. Walking is a joy.

Fix your lifestyle. Improve your home, design it exactly how you want and keep it clean and uncluttered with no GF's, wives or roommates. Make it your respite and true get away spot.

Fix your commute - Can you walk to work? I will work two hours each way to work, and carry or stash a dress shirt to get a walk in. Especially after work.

Massage, Accupuncture, etc.

Lastly, Side Gig. What other ways are you making money? What other things are you exploring to earn money from? And we are not talking about a hobby. This is a serious exploration of the different ways you can generate value in this world and get paid for it. Out of anger sublimation some of the greatest companies have been born. Put your mental frustration into where you want your life to head, to fix a problem you see wrong, that is owned by you. You wont have many hours to devote some weeks, but overall, you are opening up many alternative outcomes, rather than hanging your hat on one.

[polar]

To add on sleep:
Add ZMA before bed. It will help you sleep better and help boost your test. I recommend http://truenutrition.com/p-1095-zinc-mag...sules.aspx

Cut out caffeine by 3pm, then move this back a half hour every week or two. You want to break the cycle of tired> caffeinate> can't sleep> tired again. This way caffeine will have time to clear your system before bed...and if you reduce your intake, it will actually give you a noticeable boost when you do need it late in the day.

Leave your work at work. Once you're done for the night, TELL YOURSELF that you're done for the night. Do something to relax for a little bit, read a book before bed, etc. Avoid bright lights (including tv and computer) before bed.

Take at least a half day off for yourself every week, even if it's Saturday afternoon and night. This means no work or thinking about work.

Manage your boss. Send a Monday email listing "here's what I will get done" and "here's what I'll try to get done", and a Friday email summarizing your results. Also a good CYA if you're worried about job security and recognition.

Give yourself time during the day to decompress. Look up the Pomodoro technique, it's a good way to structure your work and helps avoid burn out. Basically, every 25 minutes of full-on focus you take 5 min at the end as a break. There was a thread on here about it too.

Reduce stress in other areas of life. A lot of good advice already.

Be reasonable with your gym goals. If you've got KYS hours you can't expect to set Olympic records. Prioritize consistent progress, even if it's slower than you want.

[Sonoma]

1. Cold showers (If you have access to an ocean, swim in that)
2. Daily exercise (10 minute sprints, pushups, whatever)
3. Shrooms are an excellent way to decompress
4. Find a new job

I had a similar situation in LA, fixed only with a new job

[Brodiaga]

You can get cold showers, bright light therapy, more fresh air, etc...all great advice which I should follow as well btw.

However, I don't think it is the root cause of the problem you have.

Before I get to the root cause, let me assume that you are not one of those crazy guys like the Germanwings pilot or Elliott Rogers. You are just a normal guy who does not get severely depressed for no reason.

So, the root cause of the problem is that you work for assholes. I don't know a lot about your situation at work, but what I do know is that being under constant threat of losing your job is not normal. Only assholes create such a work environment.

It's not necessarily your fault that you ended up in this situation. I had more than one job where I hated to wake up and go to work every morning and was glad to fall asleep at night so that I could finally forget about all the shit at least for a few hours.

As for solutions, you already know what to do. Update your resume and find another job. The job market is pretty good right now, so that's not an excuse.

Also, If you don't think the situation is bad enough, try to look at your typical day as an outsider. How would your typical conversation with the boss sound to your good friend he could hear it? The reason is that working for assholes/psychopaths can be like frog soup where you are the frog. The water temperature rises slowly, but you don't notice it. You think it's normal until the water is boiling and then it's too late. Get out before it's too late.

[Dusty]

Yes, I highly recommend meditation. i recommended this book to kbell, and he had a lot of good things to say about it:

Mindfulness: An Eight-Week Plan for Finding Peace in a Frantic World
by Mark Williams

Quote:

MINDFULNESS reveals a set of simple yet powerful practices that you can incorporate into daily life to help you break the cycle of anxiety, stress, unhappiness and exhaustion. It promotes genuine joie de vivre; the kind of happiness that gets into your bones and seeps into everything you do. The book is based on Mindfulness-Based Cognitive Therapy (MBCT). MBCT revolves around a straightforward form of mindfulness meditation which takes just a few minutes a day for the full benefits to be revealed. MBCT has been clinically proven to be at least as effective as drugs for depression and it is recommended by the UK’s National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence – in other words, it works. But more importantly, it also works for the rest of us who aren’t depressed but who are struggling to keep up with the relentless demands of the modern world. In short, Mindfulness helps you meet the worst that life throws at you with renewed courage.

[iknowexactly]

World's oldest professions:
1) Prostitutes
2) Midwives
3) Psychotherapists/priests/other "wise" men to help you after the nagging bitch and screaming baby drive you nuts.

Disclosure: I'm one

Also recommend changing jobs. If you're really burnt, government jobs for programmers are easy, if slow, to get (months or a year from contact to first day) because the salaries are low .

If you have basic competence, don't actively antagonize others, and make a best effort to get things done it's almost impossible to get fired from a job like that- because everyone knows no one can fix gubmint stuff, there's too many feifdoms and entrenched stupid rules-- so they're just happy you're around trying to help.

It can give you time to save a pile, and unlike private sector they welcome you back after you quit. If they can see on your record that you survived a few years, it means your stupidity-tolerance is high, and you won't make waves. People who pride themselves as being "really smart" don't last.

[RichieP]

Sounds like you're burning out. Try and fix it now man, burnout gets more and more difficult to come back from the longer you let it go on.

The first thing I'd consider is changing jobs. The government job recommendation is good. Something more slow and steady that won't destroy your health.

Aside from extricating yourself from the situation, I would look into things like:

-Improving sleep quality, as mentioned
-Caffeine reduction. Swap coffee for green tea, which due to the theanine gives you nice stable, long-lasting energy instead of buzz/crash
-Eliminate sugar as much as possible, and go fairly low carbs too
-Cold showers
-Eat 'paleo' - lots of protein and healthy fats. Omega 3's. Grass-fed butter. MCT oil / coconut oil is particularly good for mental energy. You can take it by the spoonful. Combines well with green tea.

-Stay well away from nootropics - your issue is fatigue, not performance. Nootropics will just grind you down more over the long-term.

-Check out a herb called "Rhodiola Rosea" -it's an adaptogen, meaning it helps people cope with stress. Many people find it helps with burnout and exhaustion. Pretty well studied.

-Keep working out of course, but don't over do it. You can do things like kettlebell swings or bodyweight squats to maintain conditioning and decent muscle mass with very short workouts (e.g. 5mins 2x a week). I also second the massage/yoga/gentle stretching/relaxed walking recommendations.

[beta_plus]

Thanks for all the advice. I really appreciate it.

There is a lot to digest here, so I apologize if I don't answer everyone right away.

I tried Mindspace, the meditation app, immediately and was extremely impressed. While not a panacea, it really made an immediate and positive difference.

[The Beast1]

(04-05-2015 09:56 PM)polar Wrote:  

To add on sleep:
Add ZMA before bed. It will help you sleep better and help boost your test. I recommend http://truenutrition.com/p-1095-zinc-mag...sules.aspx

*2 on diet and nutrition. The mind follows the body, not the other way around.

I'd also add to consider taking at night: ZMA, fish oil, GABA powder, and melatonin. All of these will aid in sleep.

In the morning, take some vitamin D, fish oil, and a single cap of copper. If you take ZMA, you'll start depleting your copper reserves which will make you feel mentally slow.

This regiment helps me out a lot. The GABA, ZMA, and Melatonin give me deep and restful sleeps. I can normally get a good sound rest at about 6-7 hours. Without it, my sleep goes to 8-9 hours to get the same effect.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Quote:

The root cause of the problem is that you work for assholes. I don't know a lot about your situation at work, but what I do know is that being under constant threat of losing your job is not normal. Only assholes create such a work environment.

No one expects work to be a bed of roses, but the simultaneous combo of endless complaints/danger of losing job AND being overworked is insane and should not be tolerated. I am in this situation right now and I've begun performing my exit plan as soon as I realized it. Don't give your best years to people who don't deserve it.

[Agreddor]

I feel like this as well. When I have to get up at 6 in the morning it feels as if I just fell asleep and have to get up ahain

[beta_plus]

(04-05-2015 01:38 PM)Vaun Wrote:  

(04-05-2015 01:12 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

Learn how to meditate. There are threads on it here. Eventually you'll reduce mental chatter during the day. Proven to relax the brain and reduce stress.

Your current problem and impending doom is very common among anyone in mid-senior level business management. I would say almost everyone is under the same pressure, its how you deal with it that counts. Because you expend so much energy day to day, things outside of work become that much harder to do.

...

Lastly, Side Gig. What other ways are you making money? What other things are you exploring to earn money from? And we are not talking about a hobby. This is a serious exploration of the different ways you can generate value in this world and get paid for it. Out of anger sublimation some of the greatest companies have been born. Put your mental frustration into where you want your life to head, to fix a problem you see wrong, that is owned by you. You wont have many hours to devote some weeks, but overall, you are opening up many alternative outcomes, rather than hanging your hat on one.

Side Note: Thanks again for your and others advice on meditating. I am now on day 3 and noticing a positive difference. I am also going to look into massage and acupuncture.

A side gig is something that I have been wondering about pursuing after reading Matt Forney's Confessions of an Online Hustler. I write a blog about Data Analysis that has gotten a surprising amount of hits given how little work I have put into it. Somewhere between 25,000 and 40,000 people have read it, depending on how generous I am about calculating my traffic since I did not begin to until a year after its creation. For specific google queries comes up in the top 10.

I created it because I got sick and tired of employers demanding professional writing samples that they knew damn well I could not provide because they were the rightful confidential property of my previous employers. I did not create it to make anything more than beer money directly. As well, I felt like paying it forward by writing about the lessons that I had learned the hard way.

I decided to monetize it with google adsense and amazon associates. The clicks I got were rare and never more than 35 cents. Then I got two clicks in one month for $2.90+ after not touching the blog in several months. I have gotten 2 or 3 more since. I began to wonder if I put the work in if I could start to make some real money from it.

I know full well from reading guys like Matt Forney, Roosh, and other manosphere writers that online writing is a tough gig. However, Aaron Clarey has (admittedly accidentally) turned it into a way to get customers for his Asshole Consulting, which in his most recent book he claims now pays for his mortgage. I am thinking that I could write an online blog and kindle books about data analysis in order to draw customers who need quick one off data analysis help and work.

Is this just a fantasy or is there some possible merit to trying this? From my perspective, the downside of course is that it will involve a lot of work that may not pay off (but isn't that true for any side gig?). The upside is that the out of pocket costs are trivial and even if it bombs I can use the skills I learn elsewhere.

[RichieP]

It's absolutely very doable. You have domain expertise in a very lucrative field... there are many ways to really cash in from your site and expertise, but you have to be strategic and position yourself properly. Adsense is bottom of the barrel. Position yourself as an authority, and think about exactly who you're writing for, their problems you can solve / products you can offer.

One suggestion might be turn the blog into career advice for aspiring data scientists.

Like this guy did for Quant Finance:
http://www.quantfinance.com

Sell a product. As Data Science gets more competitive, people will pay more and more for advice/information on making it into that (very lucrative) field.

Consulting gigs will also come your way if you position as an authority like this. That guy on Quantstart also has a jobs board which he presumably charges for listings. Top 10 in google searches for significant queries is a good sign... keep going man.

Don't think of yourself as an online writer. You're a problem-solver, solving very lucrative problems - how to make it in data science, or consulting services, or connecting PhDs with vetted job offers... etc etc. Blogging and writing is simply your marketing channel and how you get in front of the people who want to pay you money to help them with X.

[beta_plus]

As for quitting the job, which many here said, I think that I am going to have to quit the city I am in, DC. I've been in 5 jobs now where this has been a problem.

Forgetting the women issue for a minute, the city has gotten so expensive that even if you are a top manager, you're going to struggle to house and educate your kids. That kind of shit really rolls down hill.

I think I'll be looking for job postings in Dallas and Atlanta this weekend.

[iknowexactly]

(04-07-2015 11:51 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(04-05-2015 09:56 PM)polar Wrote:  

To add on sleep:
Add ZMA before bed. It will help you sleep better and help boost your test. I recommend http://truenutrition.com/p-1095-zinc-mag...sules.aspx

*2 on diet and nutrition. The mind follows the body, not the other way around.

I disagree but as I said I'm biased.

What about the many, many substance addicts who have no significant underlying physical health problem, but who choose to destroy their lives by choices to use?

Isn't that precisely a case of the body following the mind down?

When you argue that only the mind follows the body, and never vice versa, you're essentially arguing there's no such thing as learning, which I find difficult to take seriously .

[Ibagemyoutagem]

What I do between hours I study is just have a cold glass of ice water. It does the trick with a 15 min break.

[Vaun]

(04-10-2015 07:15 AM)beta_plus Wrote:  

Forgetting the women issue for a minute, the city has gotten so expensive that even if you are a top manager, you're going to struggle to house and educate your kids. That kind of shit really rolls down hill.

Full time + side gig that covers your monthly expenses. Find the magic number,$3K, $4K, $5K/month for monthly expenses(rent+bills, etc). Find that number and make that your goal. Hit that goal and keep it going, and bank the rest. Your nightlife may take it a hit.

Big data is the hottest trend in business. How can you productize that expertise?

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

Shrooms, moderate dose, taken in a safe setting, nature is best. Done right it can be like a reset button for your brain. Also much safer and less intense than LSD or peyote or ayahuasca.

[beta_plus]

(04-10-2015 07:53 PM)Vaun Wrote:  

(04-10-2015 07:15 AM)beta_plus Wrote:  

Forgetting the women issue for a minute, the city has gotten so expensive that even if you are a top manager, you're going to struggle to house and educate your kids. That kind of shit really rolls down hill.

Full time + side gig that covers your monthly expenses. Find the magic number,$3K, $4K, $5K/month for monthly expenses(rent+bills, etc). Find that number and make that your goal. Hit that goal and keep it going, and bank the rest. Your nightlife may take it a hit.

Big data is the hottest trend in business. How can you productize that expertise?

Right now I'm hoping that using blogging as promotional tool that I can start to set up a side consulting gig. Also, I need to consolidate my skills in IT and Stats. There are some gaps that just need to get filled.

The trick that I am trying to figure out is getting it so that I do not have to commit to giant projects that effectively make me an employee of my client. There doesn't seem much point of being an entrepreneur if I'm completely dependent on one customer. I might as well just be an employee in that case.