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Thoughts on Humility
#1

Thoughts on Humility

My parents took me to church for a few years when I was young (3rd-8th grade). The definition of humility outlined in the article below really resonated to me as a kid. I'm not particularly religious, but subconsciously I've always aspired to be a 'good person' AKA a person who puts the needs, wants, preferences, happiness, etc. over all but my most critical needs. It's pedestalization of all things and people in the most extreme sense of the word.

The only lesson I remember from Sunday School was the day the teacher took the full 40 minute period to explain to all of us: "I'm third." I must care about God first, family and friends second, and then I can have the leftovers. Reading this as an adult, it sounds like a recipe for a really shitty life. I feel that many Christian teachings try to cut a person down to nothing and instill that they are worthless. Check out this short article:

Quote:Quote:

In Humility Hold Others Above Yourself
Posted on 7.23.2013

When it comes to humility I think a lot of Christians tend to work with the wrong idea.

The idea that many seem to have is that humility involves thinking less about yourself, to have a negative or even morbid self-concept. Justification for this sort of thing comes from texts like Philippians 2.3:
Philippians 2.3
Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves.
Humility, it seems, is considering others as "better" than yourself. And if others are better than you it stands to reason that you are "worse." Humility, in this view, is having that sort of morbid self-concept: Others are "better" than me.

But is that what Philippians 2.3 is saying?

The word translated as "better" in this text is hyperechontas from the root hyperechō. The word (in various forms) occurs only four other times in the NT:
Romans 13:1
Every person must be subject to the governing (hyperechousais) authorities because there is no authority except by God’s appointment, and those that presently exist have been instituted by God.

Philippians 3:8
More than that, I regard all things as loss because of the surpassing (hyperechon) worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things and regard them as rubbish, in order to gain Christ

Philippians 4:7
And the peace of God, which surpasses (hyperechousa) all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 2:13
Submit to every human authority on account of the Lord, whether to the king as supreme (hyperechonti) authority.
As can be seen in these texts hyperechō means, broadly, "to hold above." In Romans 13.1 and 1 Peter 2.13 the context is explicitly political, with a political power being "held above" other powers. In Philippians 3.8 the value of knowing Christ is "held above" all other things. In Philippians 4.7 the peace of God is "held above" our ability to understand.

Which brings us back to Philippians 2.3. Translating hyperechontas as "better" doesn't really get at the root meaning of the word. Some translations to compare how well they do getting at the root meaning of "to hold above":
NIV:
Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves.

ESV:
Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves.

NASV:
Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves.

NRSV:
Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility regard others as better than yourselves.

CEV:
Don’t be jealous or proud, but be humble and consider others more important than yourselves.

The Kingdom New Testament (N.T. Wright)
Never act our of selfish ambition or vanity; instead, regard everyone else as your superior.
The NRSV goes with "better than." Which I think is the worst translation. The NASV and CEV go with "more important" and the ESV goes with "more significant." I don't think those are much better.

The NIV isn't bad with "value others above yourself." We hear a bit of hyperechō's "to hold above" in this translation, but the word "value" might muddy the waters. Finally, N.T. Wright does an interesting thing in going with the hierarchical/political meanings we observed above in Romans 13.1 and 1 Peter 2.13: "regard everyone else as your superior."

To be honest, I really don't like any of these. I sort of like staying with the basic meaning of hyperechō, "to hold above." Alternative phrases might be to "lift up," "elevate," or "place." For example:
Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility hold others up above yourselves.

Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility lift others up above yourselves.

Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility elevate others above yourselves.

Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility place others above yourselves.
To be sure, when we hold up, elevate, and lift up others this is being done over against the self. But I don't think that has to mean that the other is "better" or more "important." It simply means that the other is honored (elevated, help up, lifted up) and put first. And I think the context of the passage supports that reading. Here's the NIV with my tweak for hyperechō:
Philippians 2.3
Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility lift others up above yourselves, not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.
I think that works. Humility is less about thinking other people are "better" or "more important" than you are. Humility isn't about a morbid ego or a low self-esteem. Humility is, rather, a form of honoring and care-taking.

Humility is lifting up (hyperechō) the concerns of others, placing them above and ahead of your own.

I don't know about you, but the author's rationalization of what humility is didn't really do it for me.

Many people, especially very successful athletes, talk alot about being humble. Is it all just an act? How do you guys define humility? Is it really a good thing?
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#2

Thoughts on Humility

Social control, plain and simple.

Horrible advice for living


WIA
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#3

Thoughts on Humility

It takes a lot of personal accomplishment in order to learn humility.
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#4

Thoughts on Humility

I was raised to think of humility as a positive attribute within a religious context. Here is a more masculine perspective I liked on humility:

http://boldanddetermined.com/2012/01/12/...a-big-ego/
Reply
#5

Thoughts on Humility

Quote: (03-27-2015 11:48 AM)Eddie Winslow Wrote:  

My parents took me to church for a few years when I was young (3rd-8th grade). The definition of humility outlined in the article below really resonated to me as a kid. I'm not particularly religious, but subconsciously I've always aspired to be a 'good person' AKA a person who puts the needs, wants, preferences, happiness, etc. over all but my most critical needs. It's pedestalization of all things and people in the most extreme sense of the word.

The only lesson I remember from Sunday School was the day the teacher took the full 40 minute period to explain to all of us: "I'm third." I must care about God first, family and friends second, and then I can have the leftovers. Reading this as an adult, it sounds like a recipe for a really shitty life. I feel that many Christian teachings try to cut a person down to nothing and instill that they are worthless. Check out this short article:

Quote:Quote:

In Humility Hold Others Above Yourself
Posted on 7.23.2013

When it comes to humility I think a lot of Christians tend to work with the wrong idea.

The idea that many seem to have is that humility involves thinking less about yourself, to have a negative or even morbid self-concept. Justification for this sort of thing comes from texts like Philippians 2.3:
Philippians 2.3
Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves.
Humility, it seems, is considering others as "better" than yourself. And if others are better than you it stands to reason that you are "worse." Humility, in this view, is having that sort of morbid self-concept: Others are "better" than me.

But is that what Philippians 2.3 is saying?

The word translated as "better" in this text is hyperechontas from the root hyperechō. The word (in various forms) occurs only four other times in the NT:
Romans 13:1
Every person must be subject to the governing (hyperechousais) authorities because there is no authority except by God’s appointment, and those that presently exist have been instituted by God.

Philippians 3:8
More than that, I regard all things as loss because of the surpassing (hyperechon) worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things and regard them as rubbish, in order to gain Christ

Philippians 4:7
And the peace of God, which surpasses (hyperechousa) all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 2:13
Submit to every human authority on account of the Lord, whether to the king as supreme (hyperechonti) authority.
As can be seen in these texts hyperechō means, broadly, "to hold above." In Romans 13.1 and 1 Peter 2.13 the context is explicitly political, with a political power being "held above" other powers. In Philippians 3.8 the value of knowing Christ is "held above" all other things. In Philippians 4.7 the peace of God is "held above" our ability to understand.

Which brings us back to Philippians 2.3. Translating hyperechontas as "better" doesn't really get at the root meaning of the word. Some translations to compare how well they do getting at the root meaning of "to hold above":
NIV:
Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves.

ESV:
Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves.

NASV:
Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves.

NRSV:
Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility regard others as better than yourselves.

CEV:
Don’t be jealous or proud, but be humble and consider others more important than yourselves.

The Kingdom New Testament (N.T. Wright)
Never act our of selfish ambition or vanity; instead, regard everyone else as your superior.
The NRSV goes with "better than." Which I think is the worst translation. The NASV and CEV go with "more important" and the ESV goes with "more significant." I don't think those are much better.

The NIV isn't bad with "value others above yourself." We hear a bit of hyperechō's "to hold above" in this translation, but the word "value" might muddy the waters. Finally, N.T. Wright does an interesting thing in going with the hierarchical/political meanings we observed above in Romans 13.1 and 1 Peter 2.13: "regard everyone else as your superior."

To be honest, I really don't like any of these. I sort of like staying with the basic meaning of hyperechō, "to hold above." Alternative phrases might be to "lift up," "elevate," or "place." For example:
Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility hold others up above yourselves.

Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility lift others up above yourselves.

Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility elevate others above yourselves.

Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility place others above yourselves.
To be sure, when we hold up, elevate, and lift up others this is being done over against the self. But I don't think that has to mean that the other is "better" or more "important." It simply means that the other is honored (elevated, help up, lifted up) and put first. And I think the context of the passage supports that reading. Here's the NIV with my tweak for hyperechō:
Philippians 2.3
Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility lift others up above yourselves, not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.
I think that works. Humility is less about thinking other people are "better" or "more important" than you are. Humility isn't about a morbid ego or a low self-esteem. Humility is, rather, a form of honoring and care-taking.

Humility is lifting up (hyperechō) the concerns of others, placing them above and ahead of your own.

I don't know about you, but the author's rationalization of what humility is didn't really do it for me.

Many people, especially very successful athletes, talk alot about being humble. Is it all just an act? How do you guys define humility? Is it really a good thing?

Hey Eddie, humility is important. However I wouldn't make it your primary modus operandi.

It sounds like your background is in catholicism. A lot of what you'll hear in church by religious leaders isn't bunk per se. Christianity spends a lot of time taking care of people who learn lessons the easy way, but not those of us who need to get burned by the sting of sin to really understand why in is bad.

There was a book that was recommended to me by another poster on this forum. The book is called "A Place for You" by Paul Tournier. He talks of a concept called "Self-abdignation". In essence, you'll never understand what sin really is until you do the mirror opposite. Dr. Tourner even goes so far as to call out humility. There's a story about a woman who lived most of her life as humble as possible. She put others before her for so long that she became miserable at the age of 50. He suggested to her that she start being selfish. Sure enough she started not being entirely humble and became more balanced. In essence she learned how to say no.

Remember Jesus' new law that summed up the 10 commandments? Law others as you love yourself? If there's only one thing you get from the NT it is this. Do you have standards for yourself that other people don't meet? If you love yourself and all of what that entails, you will have a healthy self esteem which will dictate to others your values. If you project that self love (which contains your values) you will treat others in a manner that mixes humility and selfishness. Remember this is a fallen world. Anyone saying to be humble no matter what is missing the point. Here's a good RoK article that explain this concept better:
http://www.returnofkings.com/33060/the-g...rule-works

As a child I was always humble to the point of submission. As an adult, I'd say i'm more 75/25 selfish/humble. I get more mileage putting my needs and desires first.

Remember, a lot of what you hear from religious leaders is meant for people who don't push the limits and live within their boundaries. A good analogy is, most Christian leaders will preach to not touch the hot plate because it is hot. For those of us that need to know that the hotplate is in fact hot, Christianity also has the power to heal the burn. Christianity's real power is healing the wounds of sin.

Take a look at the book I suggested for you. You can get a copy of it for very cheap on Amazon and Abebooks. It might help put your faith into perspective.
Reply
#6

Thoughts on Humility

A little humility goes a long way.




[Image: attachment.jpg25652]   


If you ever have the priveledge of serving with SOCOM you'll understand. Quality women aren't attracted to boisterous assholes. Pride before the fall, gentlemen.
Reply
#7

Thoughts on Humility

Quote: (03-27-2015 03:18 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Quote: (03-27-2015 11:48 AM)Eddie Winslow Wrote:  

My parents took me to church for a few years when I was young (3rd-8th grade). The definition of humility outlined in the article below really resonated to me as a kid. I'm not particularly religious, but subconsciously I've always aspired to be a 'good person' AKA a person who puts the needs, wants, preferences, happiness, etc. over all but my most critical needs. It's pedestalization of all things and people in the most extreme sense of the word.

The only lesson I remember from Sunday School was the day the teacher took the full 40 minute period to explain to all of us: "I'm third." I must care about God first, family and friends second, and then I can have the leftovers. Reading this as an adult, it sounds like a recipe for a really shitty life. I feel that many Christian teachings try to cut a person down to nothing and instill that they are worthless. Check out this short article:

Quote:Quote:

In Humility Hold Others Above Yourself
Posted on 7.23.2013

When it comes to humility I think a lot of Christians tend to work with the wrong idea.

The idea that many seem to have is that humility involves thinking less about yourself, to have a negative or even morbid self-concept. Justification for this sort of thing comes from texts like Philippians 2.3:
Philippians 2.3
Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves.
Humility, it seems, is considering others as "better" than yourself. And if others are better than you it stands to reason that you are "worse." Humility, in this view, is having that sort of morbid self-concept: Others are "better" than me.

But is that what Philippians 2.3 is saying?

The word translated as "better" in this text is hyperechontas from the root hyperechō. The word (in various forms) occurs only four other times in the NT:
Romans 13:1
Every person must be subject to the governing (hyperechousais) authorities because there is no authority except by God’s appointment, and those that presently exist have been instituted by God.

Philippians 3:8
More than that, I regard all things as loss because of the surpassing (hyperechon) worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things and regard them as rubbish, in order to gain Christ

Philippians 4:7
And the peace of God, which surpasses (hyperechousa) all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 2:13
Submit to every human authority on account of the Lord, whether to the king as supreme (hyperechonti) authority.
As can be seen in these texts hyperechō means, broadly, "to hold above." In Romans 13.1 and 1 Peter 2.13 the context is explicitly political, with a political power being "held above" other powers. In Philippians 3.8 the value of knowing Christ is "held above" all other things. In Philippians 4.7 the peace of God is "held above" our ability to understand.

Which brings us back to Philippians 2.3. Translating hyperechontas as "better" doesn't really get at the root meaning of the word. Some translations to compare how well they do getting at the root meaning of "to hold above":
NIV:
Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves.

ESV:
Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves.

NASV:
Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves.

NRSV:
Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility regard others as better than yourselves.

CEV:
Don’t be jealous or proud, but be humble and consider others more important than yourselves.

The Kingdom New Testament (N.T. Wright)
Never act our of selfish ambition or vanity; instead, regard everyone else as your superior.
The NRSV goes with "better than." Which I think is the worst translation. The NASV and CEV go with "more important" and the ESV goes with "more significant." I don't think those are much better.

The NIV isn't bad with "value others above yourself." We hear a bit of hyperechō's "to hold above" in this translation, but the word "value" might muddy the waters. Finally, N.T. Wright does an interesting thing in going with the hierarchical/political meanings we observed above in Romans 13.1 and 1 Peter 2.13: "regard everyone else as your superior."

To be honest, I really don't like any of these. I sort of like staying with the basic meaning of hyperechō, "to hold above." Alternative phrases might be to "lift up," "elevate," or "place." For example:
Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility hold others up above yourselves.

Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility lift others up above yourselves.

Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility elevate others above yourselves.

Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility place others above yourselves.
To be sure, when we hold up, elevate, and lift up others this is being done over against the self. But I don't think that has to mean that the other is "better" or more "important." It simply means that the other is honored (elevated, help up, lifted up) and put first. And I think the context of the passage supports that reading. Here's the NIV with my tweak for hyperechō:
Philippians 2.3
Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility lift others up above yourselves, not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.
I think that works. Humility is less about thinking other people are "better" or "more important" than you are. Humility isn't about a morbid ego or a low self-esteem. Humility is, rather, a form of honoring and care-taking.

Humility is lifting up (hyperechō) the concerns of others, placing them above and ahead of your own.

I don't know about you, but the author's rationalization of what humility is didn't really do it for me.

Many people, especially very successful athletes, talk alot about being humble. Is it all just an act? How do you guys define humility? Is it really a good thing?

Hey Eddie, humility is important. However I wouldn't make it your primary modus operandi.

It sounds like your background is in catholicism. A lot of what you'll hear in church by religious leaders isn't bunk per se. Christianity spends a lot of time taking care of people who learn lessons the easy way, but not those of us who need to get burned by the sting of sin to really understand why in is bad.

There was a book that was recommended to me by another poster on this forum. The book is called "A Place for You" by Paul Tournier. He talks of a concept called "Self-abdignation". In essence, you'll never understand what sin really is until you do the mirror opposite. Dr. Tourner even goes so far as to call out humility. There's a story about a woman who lived most of her life as humble as possible. She put others before her for so long that she became miserable at the age of 50. He suggested to her that she start being selfish. Sure enough she started not being entirely humble and became more balanced. In essence she learned how to say no.

Remember Jesus' new law that summed up the 10 commandments? Law others as you love yourself? If there's only one thing you get from the NT it is this. Do you have standards for yourself that other people don't meet? If you love yourself and all of what that entails, you will have a healthy self esteem which will dictate to others your values. If you project that self love (which contains your values) you will treat others in a manner that mixes humility and selfishness. Remember this is a fallen world. Anyone saying to be humble no matter what is missing the point. Here's a good RoK article that explain this concept better:
http://www.returnofkings.com/33060/the-g...rule-works

As a child I was always humble to the point of submission. As an adult, I'd say i'm more 75/25 selfish/humble. I get more mileage putting my needs and desires first.

Remember, a lot of what you hear from religious leaders is meant for people who don't push the limits and live within their boundaries. A good analogy is, most Christian leaders will preach to not touch the hot plate because it is hot. For those of us that need to know that the hotplate is in fact hot, Christianity also has the power to heal the burn. Christianity's real power is healing the wounds of sin.

Take a look at the book I suggested for you. You can get a copy of it for very cheap on Amazon and Abebooks. It might help put your faith into perspective.

I actually wrote the ROK article that the article you cited was in response to!
http://www.returnofkings.com/22023/this-...strong-men

Reading my article now, the bitterness and anger I had/have are very obvious. I definitely struggle with the whole concept, and it has caused me a lot of frustration over the years.

Also, thanks for the book suggestion, I'll definitely check it out.
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#8

Thoughts on Humility

The most painful, and most effective, way to learn humility is to fall hard in life and have to pick yourself up as everyone else keeps going.
Reply
#9

Thoughts on Humility

Humility is a virtue, but will all the arrogant assholes out there sometimes it seems that being humble is like casting pearls before swine.
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#10

Thoughts on Humility

Quote: (03-27-2015 09:10 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  

Humility is a virtue, but will all the arrogant assholes out there sometimes it seems that being humble is like casting pearls before swine.

The system is in place to protect them, and our culture endorses it (Jerry Springer mentality). Where I grew up, the baddest dudes in high school graduated and got beaten within an inch of their life from a real fish in the pond. So bad to where they suddenly find religion and stop drinking.

Now you have a generation that spouts off a the mouth, but acts likes Lena Fucking Dungham when you pop them in the mouth for disrespect. The laws are created to protect the weak, and in turn , keep them breeding at faster rates. The race to the bottom is exponential, and men like me end up twisting off and ending up in prison or at the unmerciful barrel of our own gun. I have to stay coherent in the bars now because of the potential for a felony conviction.

Women aren't to blame. We are.
Reply
#11

Thoughts on Humility

I recently had this problem when I always get so full of myself. I literally can't help being narcissistic sometimes when I do something that makes me feel that way. Workingout , leading a team, leading friends. To a point I know its well in good because it does allow me to be confident however when I stay this way to long it has very negative consequences and just works against me. I always try to remember its a balance and like WIA said social control.

Adam says to God, "God, why did you make women so soft ?"
God says, "So that you will like them."
Adam says to God, "God, why did you make women so warm and cuddly?"
God says, "So that you will like them."
Adam says to God, "But, God, why did you make them so stupid?"
God says, "So that they will like you"
Reply
#12

Thoughts on Humility

Eddie,

Note this is only meant from my perspective, not to preach. If someone doesn't accept the premise of the Bible, no worries. I am definitely not preaching at people who don't believe it; just explaining some stuff.

Christianity in the past twenty years has been praising all things feminine, which in this case I would call deceptive humility. The way that it's presented, like you posted, a Christian leader seeing others as better than himself and others should follow this advice. It's deceptive in that the irony is seen with what's happening - he's telling others what to do.

Also, with most churches, you almost never hear anything from the OT. Notice how all the passages being pushed on readers are from the NT. This is because the OT is inherently more masculine and offers more virtues to learn than the NT. Consider, on the topic of pride and humility, that:

David ran to meet Goliath to challenge him. What an arrogant little prick; this little guy thought he could go up against Goliath. And David won.
Joseph gave Pharaoh advice about interpreting his dream and didn't do it in the most humble of ways. In fact, Pharaoh, in listening to Joseph, was humble.
Solomon says in Ecclesiastes that there is a time and place for everything, which would imply that pride has its place.
Finally, God seemed to be quite thrilled with everything he made in the first chapter of the Bible!

Humility and pride from a masculine, I'm-not-hiding-my-agenda perspective would be:

Take pride in what you're proud of. There is no shame in being proud of your six-pack; it took you work, honor the work of your han... err, torso and enjoy the fruits of your labor (I think Solomon advised this too).

When you need help, ask for it. Not in a deceptive way, or a way to get attention; ask because you don't know. Solomon turned to God for wisdom because he didn't know stuff, there was no shame in what Solomon did. I've always thought that the passage "God opposes the proud" was really saying God opposes those who never turn for help because he knows that's impossible and, according to the Bible, we all need God for salvation (if someone accepts its premise).

Just a few thoughts; reading the OT is a helpful balance to too much of the NT that's over emphasized.
Reply
#13

Thoughts on Humility

True humility brings inner peace.

All of us have an unconscious demand that life be a certain way. That people be a certain way.

It's this demand of ours that causes us suffering. When we experience the gap between our demand and reality.

The times when I'm able to truly let go of my demand, are the moments I feel most at peace.

But it's not easy for me to stay there. The inner-demand comes back, and back, and back again. It just never goes away, and I forget all the time that my demand is causing my current suffering.
Reply
#14

Thoughts on Humility

Reminds me of that quote from John Wayne, something along the lines of 'you can only be a gentleman, if you are a man first'. Basically being kind, compassionate is all well and good for virtue sake, but if you don't have a strong frame then you are just another 'doormat'.

I would beware of lessons on humility, i've seen first hand how people in certain situations will try to dominate or enslave others by appealing their victim's sense of gratitude or humility. One girl I used to know of, would buy specific people presents, to disarm them. Even if she did bad things to those people in the future, it didn't matter, they would essentially allow her poor treatment of themselves on the basis that she had shown compassion to them.

On a wider level, political groups and individuals who are often slated on this forum, do the same thing to others.
Reply
#15

Thoughts on Humility

Many men who get involved in pickup embrace what you might call the 'seductivistic' fallacy:

That attributes that attract women are virtuous and worth emulating. This is similar to the naturalistic fallacy, where people say that because something is 'natural,' that it is therefore good.

Sometimes they'll explicitly endorse this train of thought, sometimes they'll deny it but their beliefs and actions ultimately reflect that. Be aware of it, and be willing to either build an altered persona for seduction, or accept the losses and opt for the women fewer in number who will not punish you for your humility. Either way, don't let pussy warp your principles. I'm not saying that your actions must reflect always reflect your principles, but that you should not change your principles to accommodate your actions.

Should you be humble? What are you trying to accomplish? If your goal is to bed typical young American women, humility might well be a disservice to your cause. If you are trying to lead a more meaningful satisfying life and to build quality platonic relationships, and maybe even romantic ones, then humility will aid you.

Also, people mistake self-deprecation for humility. Flashes of self-aware, humorous ego are fine by me - it's all in good fun. But you can tell when a guy is trying in earnest to bolster his status in the group, he comes off as a toolbag, and even homo-erotic - I'm thinking, "dude, why are you trying so hard to impress me? You're not trying to get with me, are you?"
Reply
#16

Thoughts on Humility

Quote: (03-27-2015 09:07 PM)polymath Wrote:  

The most painful, and most effective, way to learn humility is to fall hard in life and have to pick yourself up as everyone else keeps going.

^^^This. I fell HARD. After I came back (all to my own accord) .

Was back in engineering after a year. Lost a year, but gained so much else. Considering what happened. I'm honestly surprised I didn't fall off the map, or dead.

Take care of your own shit first.

Be entitled. At the same time work your ass off (so it's not empty entitlement). This was the most important thing I learned. When you're hustling hard and entitled, no one can say shit. (assuming you're headed towards some bigger goal).

Also, self reliance is amazing (financially and health wise).
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#17

Thoughts on Humility

A Little humility can help one to look at oneself in a realistic manner and lead to being active in self improvement.
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#18

Thoughts on Humility

Being a humble Christian just gets you railroaded by girls. Ive seen a lot of older men who were genuinely good people, far better than me, get completely fucked by their wives. They believed in the Christian family unit up until their wife left them holding the tab.

And if a cute Christian girl likes you, its because youre already in her social circle and you have a good family....in other words you have natural pre-selected advantages she looks for anyways.

If you come from a broken or highly dysfunctional family, a lot of the legit chaste Christian girls will filter you out anyways. They wont enter a relationship/marriage if you have low quality factors in your life (a shit family, shit job etc).


If you believe God is an all-powerful being who could ruin your life at any moment, you would never really believe in yourself. Believing in your own strength is pointless because you think God allows you to have it and will be taen away if youre not humble. You never develop self-belief and confidence because, like Christianity says, knowledge is vanity and ambition is vanity. You should be a content, docile little slave, lest God will grow angry and strike you down.
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#19

Thoughts on Humility

I can get along with some christians, who barely think about religion, usually those from stolid, traditional, level-headed churches.
But the actual New Testament doctrine, taken neat, is poison.
Comforting for people who have nothing left to lose, but disastrous for everyone else, if taken to heart.
I would be about as eager to rely on a fundamentalist as on someone with a history of failed suicides.
The ideal christian is a celibate monk who lives on a desolate rock.
Those who want that at heart, yet live in "the world," are potential spanners in the works.

As I see it:
Esprit de corps isn't humility. It's respect.
What athletes call humility isn't humility. It's being honest with yourself.
What betas call humility is usually just cowardice - making yourself less of a target.

There's room for all three.
Respect the respectable, never lie to yourself, and choose your battles.

Sound like humility? Maybe so, but with an important detail:
Alway reserve a small piece of arrogance: the will to choose when to do these things.
To arrogate means to take or claim without justification.
But where did the first justifications come from? The first divisions of land into property? The first laws?
Claims without prior justification.
Acts of arrogance created everything we know.

When to choose not to be humble:
Maybe someone is genuinely as skilled as you or even more so, but he won't ally himself with you.
In that case, consider fucking him over. Your other "humble" traits (honesty to yourself, choosing battles) will aid you in this.
Maybe there are occasions where a show of bravado is more important than what having what that bravado requires: bluffing, for example.
The only exception is lying to yourself. I can't see how that could ever help except as an emergency morale boost, but we're men, after all.
Harshness envigorates us. Patting yourself on the back will ultimately make you feel weak.
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