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Having kids
#1

Having kids

I'm only in my 20s but some shift has begun happening in my brain and the primal desire to reproduce is getting stronger and stronger. I can't help but imagine having a swarm of kids. I want to just try many different combinations. Now when I look at girls i start imagining what our combined kid would look like. "Oh this girl is dumb but really outgoing... Hmm no I don't want a dumb kid. Oh this girl is smart but a real nerd... no that's not good either. Oh this girl is atheletic and pretty and of average intelligence and nice, that sounds good"

I logically don't think I'm ready for kids but just, as my life continues it seems like something I will inevitably want so I'd love to hear some peoples' experience here.

What's it like? Are you happy you had kids? Do you wish you hadn't? Were they accidents or on purpose? Do you enjoy raising your kids? Did you have kids with the wrong woman and they came out bad because of her?

I want the good the bad and the ugly.
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#2

Having kids

Sounds like a bad case of a male hamster to me.

Doctors orders - get this shit out of your head and go spin some more plates.
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#3

Having kids

I thought like this more frequently in my 20s than I do now. Mostly because after a 4 year relationship where I was for a time, and against my better judgement, actually considering the blue-pill life (despite being mostly unhappy with couple's dinners parties and Friday night movie nights) crashed and burned, all I can think about is what my life would be like if I was paying alimony and child support and juggling my schedule around bringing the rugrats to little league/ballet every other weekend instead of mostly living the dream like I am currently. Prescription - one LTR followed by messy break-up. Maybe I'm just too selfish for kids and monogamy, but I'm OK with that.
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#4

Having kids

I am 50 and can't have children. Actually, I believe that I could using IVF with ICSI http://infertility.about.com/od/ivf/a/icsi_ivf.htm, but there are lots of reasons why this will never happen. This is a technology that only came along after my ex-wife had already gotten too old.
  • I'd have to meet a woman who wants to try to have children by this risky means.
  • It's expensive and frequently fails, so multiple attempts are needed.
  • There is an increased risk of health and behavioral problems with IVF children.
  • I'd be in my 70's by the time any kids even reach adulthood.
  • Finally, there's always the chance she'd block me from access to the children and still hit me for child support.
The thing is, while I accepted it at a certain point when I was younger, I feel a strong regret over not having any children now. I'm tempted to do whatever it takes to find a woman who will do the IVF with me, raise the funds to cover it, and take my chances with the risks involved.

Perhaps this is only my hamster, but I really do feel like I have no legacy. I wish I had a loving wife who was the mother of my children, with a several grown, successful, loving children, and a growing brood of grandchildren.

If I were younger, I'd go overseas and find a traditional girl to build a family with. As it is, I'm trying to arrange my affairs to be able to start spending time overseas, and at least give myself the option to pursue this route.

I'm the tower of power, too sweet to be sour. I'm funky like a monkey. Sky's the limit and space is the place!
-Randy Savage
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#5

Having kids

Quote: (03-20-2015 09:13 PM)CaptainCrazy Wrote:  

Sounds like a bad case of a male hamster to me.

Doctors orders - get this shit out of your head and go spin some more plates.

I strongly disagree-- it's literally the most natural thing in the world.

If there's been life for 4 billion years, we're at the end of a succession of successful reproductions of -- who knows, wild guess-- 500 million generations of sexual reproduction in a row , without one miss or wouldn't be here.

It would seem pretty bizarrely unlikely if people didn't have different types of longings for kids.

I was also about 27 when I actually even started noticing kids existed.

There are always people who express no desire for children at all, or a desire for sex completely disconnected from liking kids. Not judging them, but this is kind of obviously looking for the horse you are riding.

I am also in my 50s and not liking the idea of never having had kids.

This sad scenario can happen to both men and women in a commerce rather than family worshipping culture.
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#6

Having kids

Quote: (03-20-2015 09:47 PM)Gorgiass Wrote:  

I thought like this more frequently in my 20s than I do now. Mostly because after a 4 year relationship where I was for a time, and against my better judgement, actually considering the blue-pill life

"blue-pill life"-- in the area of reproducing is the norm, and has been for your ancestors for hundreds of millions of generations without interruption .

Of course you have the right to choose your own life path, but to denigrate having children as a modern, foolish "blue-pill" aberration seems to show no understanding of the grand scheme of things.

Reproducing is the most fundamental existential decision, and I don't think pro- or anti- child people should let anyone influence them in this. Only you can decide if you think your children's lives will be worth living. I feel mine has been, and so want to have children.
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#7

Having kids

Lol, who ever said that thing about looking at a chick and wondering what the kids would look like is spot on. I accept that as just a part of being human. At some level I feel that drive reproduce, but I subvert it with contraceptives, smart decisions and generally not getting caught up.

I occasionally joke around with a friend of mine that if we both totally fuck up that she can marry me and bear my children. It's in dest, but she has certain genes that might make her a good mother, but not a good wife. [Image: tard.gif]

Or rather, she's good genetic material, but wouldn't wife it up if my life depended on it.

I will be checking my PMs weekly, so you can catch me there. I will not be posting.
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#8

Having kids

I'm constantly thinking about the future and trying to position myself in a way that gives me the most options. I've been considering this topic and for this reason I always take note of what older men say about their families or lack thereof.

The ones that have a good family are usually happy with the decision (or accident) and wouldn't change a thing.
The ones that don't have a family often wonder if they made the right decision. Feelings of regret or emptiness seem far more common than the man wishing he had never had a family.

I'm approaching mid 20s and see a family somewhere in my future. It's not my main goal at the moment, but could be done comfortably given my lifestyle progresses the way I plan.

I think the hardest part of having a family would be finding a women worthy of raising my children.
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#9

Having kids

Quote: (03-21-2015 12:36 AM)Sooth Wrote:  

I think the hardest part of having a family would be finding a women worthy of raising my children.

That is the big issue. I am sure if many of the guys on here met and exceptional woman they would be all over it. Exceptional not in terms of accomplishments but of the feminine qualities we seek and loyalty.

Sadly, that is the problem the bitches ain't loyal and the majority of them are not feminine. Most are deluded/fucked up like that all about the bass fat chick.

Fate whispers to the warrior, "You cannot withstand the storm." And the warrior whispers back, "I am the storm."

Women and children can be careless, but not men - Don Corleone

Great RVF Comments | Where Evil Resides | How to upload, etc. | New Members Read This 1 | New Members Read This 2
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#10

Having kids

[Image: man-down-Bulge-Jacques-Reboul.jpg]


MAN DOWN!!
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#11

Having kids

I want a large number of children, and I'm constantly thinking about how best to make it happen. There are a few fundamental sticking points, most of which have been mentioned in this thread:

1. The punitive alimony/child support regime in the USA that can improverish you while simultaneously alienating you from your children.
2. The quality of the women you may be procreating with (obviously you don't want a low quality woman giving birth to your child and then handicapping them with her foolishness for the entirety of their youth and potentially doing permanent damage)
3. The quality of the culture your children will be raised in (you want them socialized in a healthy culture that will make them healthier, more productive adults and won't increase their chances of growing up to partake in foolery).

These are big hurdles for a man living in the USA. Quality, family-oriented women with the right mindset to raise multiple well adjusted children are here, but they are very hard to get. If you're not a certain type of guy with a certain type of look (one that women consider indicative of a good provider), locking down one of these women is especially challenging here.

The mainstream culture here is somewhat toxic, and the easiest way to circumvent it is with large amounts of money (enough to place your children in exclusive private institutions for the duration of their lives and thus separate them from some of the foolery that plagues the masses). Meanwhile, the laws just are what they are, and won't be changing soon.

I've concluded, based on all of the above, that the best way forward would probably involve looking to a source abroad for a wife and trying to center large portions of my children's upbringing there. I'm fortunate enough to have ancestral ties to a culture I consider healthy and sensible (one I'd feel comfortable socializing my kids in without fear that they'll grow up to be as confused as so many modern American millennials). The average woman there is generally of a higher quality than here (thanks to the culture's more traditional mindset) and more likely to see someone with my phenotype as a quality potential father of her children. The alimony/child support laws are far less punitive, and the costs of even the best education there are low enough to make placing the children in the best school available a breeze (further ensuring that they are socialized well, are networked better, and have more opportunities as adults).

The only downside to this plan is the startup cost. Before I go back to this place, find a partner, and get things going, I'm going to need a lot of money (enough to be able to build a life for my wife and children down there without their having to come live in the USA as I establish myself). Thus, I'm probably going to have to wait until I hit 40+ before I can put this plan into action and settle down properly. This is like a 20 year plan for me right now.

Downsides notwithstanding, I recommend this plan to any young guy who still wishes one day to find loyal, feminine women to start a family with in the future. You'll need to plan ahead carefully so as to allow you to find a quality woman elsewhere and avoid bringing her back to the USA too often, but there's still hope if you can manage that.

You can take your chances in the states and you might luck out, but the odds are against you.

Know your enemy and know yourself, find naught in fear for 100 battles. Know yourself but not your enemy, find level of loss and victory. Know thy enemy but not yourself, wallow in defeat every time.
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#12

Having kids

Quote: (03-21-2015 01:08 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  

Quote: (03-21-2015 12:36 AM)Sooth Wrote:  

I think the hardest part of having a family would be finding a women worthy of raising my children.

That is the big issue. I am sure if many of the guys on here met and exceptional woman they would be all over it. Exceptional not in terms of accomplishments but of the feminine qualities we seek and loyalty.

Sadly, that is the problem the bitches ain't loyal and the majority of them are not feminine. Most are deluded/fucked up like that all about the bass fat chick.

Anyone who excels at anything faces the problem of regression to mediocrity in reproducing.

I don't know of ANY great genius in history whose sons equalled his achievements. Bach's sons' compositions are still played, but Bach is still considered the pinnacle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitness_landscape

I'm upper-middle class or upper class in ability, but not in that economic bracket, and it's doubtful I can find a mate with the female intellectual and talent level I am at ( female expression of IQ and talent are muted, but some are presumably carrying the superior genes)

I find some solace in the idea that evolution isn't as simple as a stock going up and up. In some ways I simply over intellectualize, and someone might better off being 5 IQ points lower if they weren't as neurotic. A 10 per cent increase in hardiness and simple peasant capacity for work might easily overcome a 10% decrease in talent in actually achieving something in life.

[Image: banana.gif][Image: catlady.gif][Image: banana.gif]
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#13

Having kids

Quote: (03-20-2015 11:52 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

Quote: (03-20-2015 09:47 PM)Gorgiass Wrote:  

I thought like this more frequently in my 20s than I do now. Mostly because after a 4 year relationship where I was for a time, and against my better judgement, actually considering the blue-pill life

"blue-pill life"-- in the area of reproducing is the norm, and has been for your ancestors for hundreds of millions of generations without interruption .

Of course you have the right to choose your own life path, but to denigrate having children as a modern, foolish "blue-pill" aberration seems to show no understanding of the grand scheme of things.

Reproducing is the most fundamental existential decision, and I don't think pro- or anti- child people should let anyone influence them in this. Only you can decide if you think your children's lives will be worth living. I feel mine has been, and so want to have children.

Blue-pill is the "norm" by definition in all areas, I would never say that having kids is abberant because most people I know have done it already. Neither was there denigration intended - I have no problem referring to my own, currently childless path as selfish which typically has negative connotations although I don't think it should.

Remaining childless seems like a more logically-driven selfishness - I want to spend my time and money on things I enjoy rather than things for my wife and children, I don't want to gamble on odds that I will get a divorce, lose the house and spend my peak SMV years broke and sleeping on a friend's couch while my wife gets with a well-off guy and still has 15 years of alimony coming to her like happened to a guy I know. Having children is selfish in the sense that a person is giving in to their biological desires to pass on their genetics, most often without thinking about the above scenario, but in return they get to see their children grow up and know they've fulfilled their evolutionary purpose in life. Trading pleasures of the flesh for pleasures of the soul if you will. From most men I've had honest discussions of the subject with it seems like there are regrets associated with either choice. The grass is always greener on the other side. I may have children someday but anything earlier than my late 30s would not be intentional.

I appreciate your sharing insights from a little further down the road.
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#14

Having kids

Quote: (03-20-2015 05:44 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

I'm only in my 20s but some shift has begun happening in my brain and the primal desire to reproduce is getting stronger and stronger. I can't help but imagine having a swarm of kids. I want to just try many different combinations. Now when I look at girls i start imagining what our combined kid would look like. "Oh this girl is dumb but really outgoing... Hmm no I don't want a dumb kid. Oh this girl is smart but a real nerd... no that's not good either. Oh this girl is atheletic and pretty and of average intelligence and nice, that sounds good"

I logically don't think I'm ready for kids but just, as my life continues it seems like something I will inevitably want so I'd love to hear some peoples' experience here.

What's it like? Are you happy you had kids? Do you wish you hadn't? Were they accidents or on purpose? Do you enjoy raising your kids? Did you have kids with the wrong woman and they came out bad because of her?

I want the good the bad and the ugly.

I am only days away now of my sons due date. To be honest the whole thing has felt almost clinical.

I put a plan into action last January that involved buying real estate and having a kid (I wanted a son). Now that this part of the plan is almost over I am ready to execute the second stage of the plan which is being a supportive father. The next few years are not too important in regards to father infant relationships but having my flesh and blood so close will be a remarkable influence on my ability to hustle harder.

In regards to the mother, yes of course I have vetted more women than I can remember. I found a woman who is more than happy to be in this with me. In reality she is more invested financially even than I am. She wont work for the first while if ever at all. I made sure she put up a decent amount of money toward my real estate. Her mother makes sure that she treats me like a king with a hug and kiss at the door and always has food ready when I come home, my bar is re stocked, she takes excellent care of herself. Is she a genius? Hardly. Just very average intelligence but between her motherly grace and my solid handed fathering lineage she is damn exited to be raising my son with me.

Some bonus is my son will speak English, Japanese, Mandarin and French by way of his parents and grandparents and will hold 3 (possibly 4) passports. Myself and his mother are unique racial mixes already where I especially am very hard to place racially. He will be even more so.

The future of this planet is going to be going through some amazing and terrible times and I feel that it will be even more important to be raising the next generation correctly. In regards to my own feelings, I will feel a great shame if some of the amazing men and women around me choose not to have children "because of the world they will be inheriting" when it would be exactly these types of people that should be having children.
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#15

Having kids

Quote: (03-21-2015 01:53 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

Quote: (03-21-2015 01:08 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  

Quote: (03-21-2015 12:36 AM)Sooth Wrote:  

I think the hardest part of having a family would be finding a women worthy of raising my children.

That is the big issue. I am sure if many of the guys on here met and exceptional woman they would be all over it. Exceptional not in terms of accomplishments but of the feminine qualities we seek and loyalty.

Sadly, that is the problem the bitches ain't loyal and the majority of them are not feminine. Most are deluded/fucked up like that all about the bass fat chick.

Anyone who excels at anything faces the problem of regression to mediocrity in reproducing.

I don't know of ANY great genius in history whose sons equalled his achievements. Bach's sons' compositions are still played, but Bach is still considered the pinnacle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitness_landscape

I'm upper-middle class or upper class in ability, but not in that economic bracket, and it's doubtful I can find a mate with the female intellectual and talent level I am at ( female expression of IQ and talent are muted, but some are presumably carrying the superior genes)

I find some solace in the idea that evolution isn't as simple as a stock going up and up. In some ways I simply over intellectualize, and someone might better off being 5 IQ points lower if they weren't as neurotic. A 10 per cent increase in hardiness and simple peasant capacity for work might easily overcome a 10% decrease in talent in actually achieving something in life.

[Image: banana.gif][Image: catlady.gif][Image: banana.gif]

Well remember, the primary goal of having kids is to pass on your genes and ensure overall survival of the species...not to compose sweet melodies or awesome guitar riffs better than pops could...although that would be cool and definitely get him laid a lot:-)

Kids are the future...without them we are just a one hit wonder.
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#16

Having kids

Laner, Congrats man.

One thing about your son and his languages. Many children grow up and do not speak the languages their family speaks. Children generally only learn the language they socialize in. If you want them to grow up speaking four languages your son must have social groups that speak those four languages. This could be acomplished in several ways.

Say you live in Japan, send your son to school in an international school where all students communicate in English, he will have English and Japanese speaking friends. Maybe you summer in China, he will make Chinese friends. Maybe you enroll him in French school on Saturdays and have many French speaking friends with kids, and he makes friends with those French kids too.

I have known many people whose children simply do not even speak the language of their parents, for instance Russian families in the U.S. whose kids only speak English and some pior smattering of Russian. People often think merely speaking a language at home will be enough for a child to become fluent but rarely os that so.

Good luck with your endeavor though, you sound like you have it all worked out well and things will turn out for the best!
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#17

Having kids

At times I believe a child would be my only significant accomplishment in my life.
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#18

Having kids

Quote: (03-21-2015 04:18 PM)Vaun Wrote:  

At times I believe my child is my only significant accomplishment in my life. And it happened on accident. There was no planning, no decision, no scheduling, it just happened with my ex.

As I age, the concept of "love" between a man and a women appears to be a societal construct. A forced, marketed and bullshit exercise to support economic interests; namely the women and marketers that benefit from your earning potential. And for the 1/10 marriages that is actually happy, you have to ask yourself what its all worth.

Love for your child is a completely different love. Its real love, not love based on a "trade off". Your child simply can not live without you. They adopt your traits and your priorities. They bring you joy unlike any joy you can get from anything else. The most important thing is that you are there, present, in their lives while they grow, to help them grow.

I choose to be single. I meet and date lots of women. I enjoy and honestly am happier than I have ever been, at 40. In my mid 20's I had this urge to wife up. I did, then baby came. Divorce, destruction(mental, health, financial, you name it) and I have recovered. I would be a fool to put myself through that again, or even entertain the thought that I could "do it better this time." Look at Robin Williams.

But as you have these urges, mate selection is of utmost importance. Its really everything. Its a wide subject we dont really cover here, other than brief lists of what red flags are. How to first attract, build love in her, and ultimately maintain that love she has of you, is a topic I would recommend learning for several years before you pick a partner. Its not hard to pick a partner. You can spin several plates and ultimately choose the right one. But the process starts with your knowledge in how to find and maintain a wife.

Where did I go wrong. I ignored several things in dating and early on, that I knew were obvious huge red flags. I was full of ego and willpower, and thought, just like everything else I had done, that I could over power any obstacle with force of will. But thats foolish thinking, immature thinking.

Read and learn as much as you can about how to find the right women. Wait to marry at least until you have hit your stride in your career, hit age 35-40, probably older, and learn to control yourself, your finances, and ultimately having the balls to walk away from the wrong person. That way, when you do have kids, you set them up for the best success in creating the ideal home.

Vaun great post.

I began life, pre-game, as an LTR guy. My parents are together and happy. I had many LTRs before finding anything about "game". I have been practicing how to have a good relationship and learning which traits to look for in a girl since I was in High School.

However, despite all this I do not think I would ever get married anyway.

I have had LTRs where girls indicated they wanted a kid and wouldn't abort if they accidentally got pregnant, this after me being 100% honest about never wanting to get married. So I am confident in my life I will be able to find a girl who would raise a kid with me without being married.

I'm sure if you live together and raise a kid together that if you do end up splitting up the girl would still have some legal recourse to steal your shit, under common-law marriage or some such nonsense. I would hate for this to happen, I see a lot of psychic pain in my friends whose parents have split and I would hate for my children to ever go through that.
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#19

Having kids

Quote: (03-21-2015 04:30 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

I'm sure if you live together and raise a kid together that if you do end up splitting up the girl would still have some legal recourse to steal your shit, under common-law marriage or some such nonsense. I would hate for this to happen, I see a lot of psychic pain in my friends whose parents have split and I would hate for my children to ever go through that.

You see legal recourse against these arraignments happening all the time, especially sperm donors, unmarried child rearing, etc. Often, over and over in court, men get penalized just as often and as severely as the divorcing father. Once you have a baby with a women you are under the same legal obligations. Unless you adopt, without another party.
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#20

Having kids

I have 3. Now when I look at a chick, my mind focuses exclusively on banging her brains out and hoping not to fuck it up (eg unwrapped) and have another one.

Consider this a postcard from the edge.
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#21

Having kids

Quote: (03-21-2015 01:53 PM)Laner Wrote:  

Her mother makes sure that she treats me like a king with a hug and kiss at the door and always has food ready when I come home, my bar is re stocked, she takes excellent care of herself. Is she a genius? Hardly. Just very average intelligence but between her motherly grace and my solid handed fathering lineage she is damn exited to be raising my son with me.

That's pretty much what I would be looking for also. I don't want an intellectual partner in a women, I have male friends for that. If she has a level of higher education she'll also have an inflated sense of self worth and 50k worth of debt/dicks under her belt.

Quote: (03-21-2015 04:18 PM)Vaun Wrote:  

But as you have these urges, mate selection is of utmost importance. Its really everything. Its a wide subject we dont really cover here, other than brief lists of what red flags are. How to first attract, build love in her, and ultimately maintain that love she has of you, is a topic I would recommend learning for several years before you pick a partner. Its not hard to pick a partner. You can spin several plates and ultimately choose the right one. But the process starts with your knowledge in how to find and maintain a wife.

Read and learn as much as you can about how to find the right women. Wait to marry at least until you have hit your stride in your career, hit age 35-40, probably older, and learn to control yourself, your finances, and ultimately having the balls to walk away from the wrong person. That way, when you do have kids, you set them up for the best success in creating the ideal home.

This is pretty much what lead me into these parts of the web. I'm glad you said 35-40 for getting married providing you have a solid foundation to start from as that's what I've been thinking. And if I was say 35 I'd be looking for a girl under 25 and ignore hate from the "he can't handle a real women" spinsters.

In theory the process of raising a family isn't hard and if done right is usually successful. The people that run into trouble seem to have entered ill prepared, or by accident.
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#22

Having kids

Quote:Quote:

This is pretty much what lead me into these parts of the web. I'm glad you said 35-40 for getting married providing you have a solid foundation to start from as that's what I've been thinking. And if I was say 35 I'd be looking for a girl under 25 and ignore hate from the "he can't handle a real women" spinsters.

In theory the process of raising a family isn't hard and if done right is usually successful. The people that run into trouble seem to have entered ill prepared, or by accident.

I am 35. Before two years ago MAX I never even noticed kids unless they were being little shits, which just re-enforced the thought of ever having any of my own.

I have no idea what changed. I was with an extremely fit, tall Swedish woman from a good family and had this insane urge to knock her up and build a hockey team of genetically superior sons. And while she was loyal and loving to the end, she was just going to be a constant challenge to my authority which I would not want when raising kids. I am OK with giving control to certain aspects of parenting, of course, but I could just see the future and was hesitant to have someone who might be able to out alpha me at times. [Image: huh.gif]

This might sound a bit old school, but setting my current relationship up to where she is very dependent on me became a goal. At first I did not even know I was doing it, but now I realize that this was likely how previous generations dealt with the likely hood of having their woman run off with the latest emotional saga.

It also helps that she has such pride that she would likely never even think about letting the government take care of her. Pride with humility. It does still exist and it is still beautiful.
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#23

Having kids

I have 2, a girl & a boy and they are unquestionably my two favorite people in the world

Please note: You will never be "ready", you will makes mistakes but actively raising your seeds and watching them develop their natural gifts, exert their independence and become productive adults is the most gratifying feeling in the world

Compared to my siblings, I had kids late but for me it couldn't happened at a better time - parenthood forces you to grow up

Through life you will have a lot of titles, jobs and careers, but the most enduring of those is to be a parent

MDP
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#24

Having kids

MDP, mazel tov bro. Are you married, or with the mother, if you dont mind sharing?
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#25

Having kids

Quote: (03-21-2015 07:46 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

MDP, mazel tov bro. Are you married, or with the mother, if you dont mind sharing?

Nope divorced but on civil terms

I am a part of their every day lives
[Image: icon_mrgreen.gif]

MDP
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