[Brian]

the recession is still effecting people here. if you had a job in '07 and didnt lose it you were ok, or if you work for the gov't you are fine, but some industries here are slower like real estate, and more importantly all the kids that graduated the last 2 or 3 years are working $8/hr jobs at the mall and have no disposable income.

[Hokie30]

Quote:

Hokie, you say you've lived in the area for 10 years. Wouldn't you agree that the clubs used to be packed as hell, as recently as a few years ago? In my experience, DC used to buzz with activity. But no more!

And another point. Unattractive girls is one matter. It's well documented. But at least, those below-average girls used to make eye contact in the past! You would go to a club and have several girls making eye contact at you. That is not happening at all now, and this is what concerns me. I have not had eye contact from ANY woman in years in DC!

I was recently in NYC on a random visit and a couple of women made eye contact with me on the streets in Manhattan. In DC, that used to happen as well, but only prior to 2009. Not anymore, for some reason.

Amen, AVisitor! I've lived in DC for 21 years but have been going out here for 10. Before that it was all underage (frat) parties in college.
DC had a packed Club scene in late 90s and around 2000/2001 that rivaled much bigger East Coast cities. I still remember the days when Nation's in SE DC was one of the biggest clubs in USA packing in three thousand plus ravers on friday/saturday nights and major music acts like Prodigy and Paul Van Dyke coming to spin. Shoot even club wet (majority gay club) used to pack girls in, especially for bachelorette parties. Then the club district in SE was torn down to make way for Nationals Stadium which of course spelled doom for DCs edgier clubs. Those days girls were easy and drugs (ecstacy) even more so. I also remember Polly Esther's as an 80s music club that existed in CHinaTown area and where a "cute" 21 year old could pick up Cougars left and right (of course due to my high standards I usually rejected their approaches). Not even talking was required, grinding was sufficient to get girls all horny (believe it or not ratio was almost always in guys favor with majority girls around).

Alas, I'd say with the closing of Club Love 2 years ago DC has gone downhill and honestly i've almost stopped going out here unless it's to a sports bar or an occasional "International Night" at 18th street lounge. True, girls don't react anymore to "half-ass" approaches and eye contact is non-existent. Thus as i've gotten older, richer, uglier BUT smarter I am seeing that the goldmine is overseas (EE) and in other US cities (Philly, Baltimore, AC, are some i'd name). That is where i'm investing my precious time and money in.

[AVisitor]

Thanks for the post. Any ideas why the scene in DC has changed? Care to elaborate on any theories?

To illustrate the contrast between the mid-2000s and now, I want to show a few pics:

[1] This pic is from Ultrabar in early 2007 (Feb. 2007), there are more girls than guys here, maybe 15% more girls.



[2] This pic is from a club called Tequila Beach which was next to Platinum, and it's from 2006.

There were so many girls in the club that they would climb on the bar and do crazy shit in front of everyone. Navel shots, whipped cream, etc. And as you said, no effort at all was required, the girls were approaching you themselves and literally handing out their #s. I believe that a 2 girls/1 guy ratio was rather common around that time.



What a difference 3-4 years makes. Something has changed and DC has lost all its talent... No eye contact, no girls in the clubs anymore, the city is very quiet.

Is it possible that there'll be a new wave, a new level of activity in the future? If we can explain today's drought (vs. the abundance of 2004-2007), can we make some predictions on how DC might change in the future?

[Hokie30]

My theory is that DC has gotten bad for game due to the economic situation. As the economy in the rest of the country get's worse more and more educated, young professionals, in sectors such as IT/Law/Science are moving to this area for work. Majority of them tend to be male thus scewing the ratio. FUrthermore I think the game has also gotten too publicized. There are more wannabe PUAs in this area then i've ever seen. Same girls (no matter how ugly they are) are constantly getting approached by guy after guy with similar openers thus girls are becoming immune to approaches in bars/clubs.

[AVisitor]

Thanks. I'm trying to think of what would need to happen for more girls to move over here... More "pink collar" jobs such as media/PR, public health, etc.? Is that why so many of them were here before, because DC had those industries, and doesn't now?

[Roosh]

I wonder if it's a factor that now there are just so many more clubs. Back in the day there were 2 or 3 main places to go to. Sure they had sausage but there were tons of women (VIP club, Platinum, The Spot, and even Glow when it was at Insomnia). Now there's a billion places and what's good this week will suck the next.

[alb3]

(05-16-2011 02:04 PM)rakishness Wrote:  

The women here just aren't very outgoing. The suburbs of DC have single women that simply refuse to go out in DC during the weekends.

Then there is the quality. It just seems like the jobs we have around here don't attract 9's and 10's. Or even STYLISH 7's and 8's. Go out to a bar in DC this weekend. The few girls that you even see out will put very little effort into their dress. Is it so hard to put on makeup and high heels at least? I guess they can get away with it because there is very little competition here.

I could go on for days about how bad it is here.

I completely agree with you about the suburban women not liking to go into DC. I live in the suburbs and the 7-8's that I know would rather go to NYC or the NC beaches than go into DC.

I also agree that DC does not attract the high 8's or 9's. 10's are rare anywhere in the world; however, I disagree that there are no stylish 7's or 8's. They are in the metro area.

[alb3]

(05-16-2011 09:25 PM)AVisitor Wrote:  

I do think that the end of the war in Iraq has tipped the scales in terms of DC's sex ratio. That's the one variable I can point to, in terms of actual demographic data. More soldiers coming home to the US = more male competition.

I completely disagree with this. The vast majority of the war-fighters are not based in the DC area. The DC area is the brains of the military not the brawn. Most of the war-fighters are returning to hick-town USA. Now with the BRAC(Base Realignment and Closure), the DC area is seeing a spike in the "brains" of the military due to many program executive offices being relocated to the DC area. Many of them being government civilians.., yes, more dreaded government drones.

[alb3]

(05-17-2011 09:07 PM)AVisitor Wrote:  

Thanks. I'm trying to think of what would need to happen for more girls to move over here... More "pink collar" jobs such as media/PR, public health, etc.? Is that why so many of them were here before, because DC had those industries, and doesn't now?

There are tons of public health jobs in the DC area. Remember that MoCo (Montgomery County) is a national hot-bed for the biotech and biosciences. The NIH is here, tons of not for profits that specialize in public health. Many of these women come from JHU in Baltimore that has the nations #1 Public Health Program. Many of these women travel the world and when they are home, they just don't go out. Also, many of them get their experience in the not for profit or government and move on. Remember that the DC area has one of the highest transient populations in the country. I'm still trying to figure out how I got stuck here long term.

[kimleebj]

(05-18-2011 06:10 AM)alb3 Wrote:  

(05-16-2011 02:04 PM)rakishness Wrote:  

The suburbs of DC have single women that simply refuse to go out in DC during the weekends.

I completely agree with you about the suburban women not liking to go into DC.

It sucks to fight traffic, DWI's, and parking to visit the city. Also, the city is largely African-American, while the suburbs are white. Suburban Montgomery County liquor laws prohibit bars and clubs; only restaurants can serve alcohol. Suburban women are not in clubs.

[Malcolm Tucker]

Has anyone tried any specializing in the tourist, business or convention visitor markets at the higher-end hotel bars in town?

There are a lot of people who come to town for business or to see the place, and with the right approach and look I am thinking it'd be a natural to get something during the week. Out of town married women should be around if nothing else. Sure it won't be young 20's 9-10s but late 20's and up should be there and the natural female "what happens on the road stays on the road" attitude should apply.

Also, how about the bars surrounding the embassies? Surely the embassy workers must have local watering holes for after work drinks, right? I've been thinking of doing some recon around a couple embassies for shits and giggles.

I haven't had time to test either of these theories, but I'll start in the late summer when my schedule opens up a bit. Any opinions or experiences?

And my pet theory as to why DC is so fucking dull has to do with the security clearance culture. Every other person out of school with decent cash here works for the government or contractors and they're either afraid of fucking up their clearances by living life or they're just inherently dull enough to maintain a TS/SCI with lifestyle poly and therefore already walking dead. The place is custom made for terrified conformist clones to make decent money.

To be fair though it's nice to live in a town where anytime you go out to the more interesting bars you can meet people from anywhere in the world on a good night. I've had great times drinking with French Foreign Legionnaires, shady diplomats, and others. Not to mention there are plenty of 30ish women married to IT beta pussies who appreciate a bit of adventurous dick on the side.

All in all though I can't wait to scrape this place off my boots.

[Gmac]

(05-18-2011 06:10 AM)alb3 Wrote:  

(05-16-2011 02:04 PM)rakishness Wrote:  

The suburbs of DC have single women that simply refuse to go out in DC during the weekends.

Suburban women are not in clubs.

Yet another reason why I've found my niche here in online dating. Aside from that, the bar/lounge scene and day game have been my refuge. For most of these girls, every place I take them is their first time there. There are plenty of good looking women in the area, but they aren't necessarily coming into DC or going out much at all. That makes our job all the more difficult.

[Chad Daring]

As depressing as this thread could be, Its actually lifting my spirits. I thought it was me, but apparently its the area, hell I'm a little more eager to keep going out now, just to take a swing at slaying the "dragon"

Oh and dont count that biopharmecutical influence in MoCo out, I work as a contractor at said company and while there's a lot of stuffy old science guys and dorky science kids, there are some NICE girls that work there.

Also, another thing I've noticed since being here, strictly from online dating mind you, is that there seems to be many more attractive and open women in the VA area, vs MD or DC. Every girl I've met in MD is ugly and looking to be married by 25, every girl I've met in DC is okay and thinks her degree makes her hot shit. In VA though, I've found plenty or more down to earth, attractive, and feminine women who are more into fun then career/family. Thoughts?

[Hokie30]

(05-18-2011 07:36 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  

As depressing as this thread could be, Its actually lifting my spirits. I thought it was me, but apparently its the area, hell I'm a little more eager to keep going out now, just to take a swing at slaying the "dragon"

Oh and dont count that biopharmecutical influence in MoCo out, I work as a contractor at said company and while there's a lot of stuffy old science guys and dorky science kids, there are some NICE girls that work there.

Also, another thing I've noticed since being here, strictly from online dating mind you, is that there seems to be many more attractive and open women in the VA area, vs MD or DC. Every girl I've met in MD is ugly and looking to be married by 25, every girl I've met in DC is okay and thinks her degree makes her hot shit. In VA though, I've found plenty or more down to earth, attractive, and feminine women who are more into fun then career/family. Thoughts?

Chad, I agree with you VA is better than DC and MD but not by much and now I am seeing huge groups of guys from dc/md descending on my hood of Arlington, especially CourtHouse & Clarendon are. Competition is getting intense! Even with max effort I am not able to succeed here unless I lower my high standards which I am not ready to do yet. I am taking my game to Atlantic City this weekend see if I can do better (which I surely will).

[UrbanNerd]

(05-18-2011 07:58 AM)Malcolm Tucker Wrote:  

And my pet theory as to why DC is so fucking dull has to do with the security clearance culture. Every other person out of school with decent cash here works for the government or contractors and they're either afraid of fucking up their clearances by living life or they're just inherently dull enough to maintain a TS/SCI with lifestyle poly and therefore already walking dead. The place is custom made for terrified conformist clones to make decent money.

To be fair though it's nice to live in a town where anytime you go out to the more interesting bars you can meet people from anywhere in the world on a good night. I've had great times drinking with French Foreign Legionnaires, shady diplomats, and others. Not to mention there are plenty of 30ish women married to IT beta pussies who appreciate a bit of adventurous dick on the side.

All in all though I can't wait to scrape this place off my boots.

Well...I am one of those TS/SCI+Poly I.T. contractors and if it is "conforming", then call me Mr. Conformist. I personally like when I search Dice.com and about 1,000 results come back....even during the recession. Makes work and a great paycheck virtually an "automatic"....instead of trying to think of some new business scheme every other week due to taking some unmarketable college major like sociology. It allows me travel the way I want (well maybe not Colombia yet but I am working on the security clearance gods)....and don't have to "cringe" when some woman mentions her degree or career or mortgage or foreign car.

[Roosh]

Quote:

It allows me travel the way I want (well maybe not Colombia yet but I am working on the security clearance gods).

So you have to get permission from Uncle Sam to go to Colombia? Seems like a pretty big downside. It's like you're a member of the party in Communist Russia with the travel restrictions.

[whosyourdaddy]

(05-18-2011 07:02 AM)kimleebj Wrote:  

(05-18-2011 06:10 AM)alb3 Wrote:  

(05-16-2011 02:04 PM)rakishness Wrote:  

The suburbs of DC have single women that simply refuse to go out in DC during the weekends.

I completely agree with you about the suburban women not liking to go into DC.

It sucks to fight traffic, DWI's, and parking to visit the city. Also, the city is largely African-American, while the suburbs are white. Suburban Montgomery County liquor laws prohibit bars and clubs; only restaurants can serve alcohol. Suburban women are not in clubs.

This is one of the things that piss me off the most. Why does Montgomery County not have any bars? Years ago, i believe there was a Polly Esther's in Rockville and at least there was the Orange Billards Bar near MC. But now even that is closed.

The whole stupid 50% rule keeps Montgomery county back. The only real bonus is that the traffic is actually not that bad for the most part, especially when compared with VA.

But i really have no idea what most suburban girls do most weekends. Just goto restaurants/movies?

However, the big bonus of living in MoCo is the access to like 5 different nightlife areas is less than an hour's drive:

1) DC
2) Baltimore
3) College Park
4) Annapolis
5) Arlington/Alexandria

[whosyourdaddy]

It sounds like most of the complaints have to do with nightlife. Daygame in the area is not bad however. Lots of opportunities to daygame in both DC and the burbs.

IMO, the area is all about things like meetup groups, people who know each other, church groups, social circles, etc. There are a lot of these, and this is how most singles in the area find each other.

[Kish]

Bethesda does have a couple of bars but last call is early. The girls are typically better looking then the girls you see in DC but its very cliqish. They all went to high school together and ignore outsiders

[Malcolm Tucker]

(05-19-2011 12:44 AM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

(05-18-2011 07:58 AM)Malcolm Tucker Wrote:  

All in all though I can't wait to scrape this place off my boots.

Well...I am one of those TS/SCI+Poly I.T. contractors and if it is "conforming", then call me Mr. Conformist. I personally like when I search Dice.com and about 1,000 results come back....even during the recession. Makes work and a great paycheck virtually an "automatic"....instead of trying to think of some new business scheme every other week due to taking some unmarketable college major like sociology. It allows me travel the way I want (well maybe not Colombia yet but I am working on the security clearance gods)....and don't have to "cringe" when some woman mentions her degree or career or mortgage or foreign car.

Cool. If that's how you want to live then good on you.

I'm in the IT field as well and with the right experience, degrees, and certs I don't need to play the clearance game. I totally understand the appeal though because it's quite a racket and there's a lot of money to be made, especially if you're willing to set up your own shop. And I'm sure if you've been around a while you've met or at least heard reliable accounts about some people with high level clearances whose lifestyles don't really meet all the official published criteria, so to say.

Have you ever read the administrative law appeal decisions for the morons who get caught doing things that screw up their clearances? There's some division of some agency that publishes appeals from the admin judges who hear the suits - I forget which - and they're hilarious reading. I read a couple years' worth when I got here before deciding not to go down that road. It's amazing how stupid some people are with their meal tickets.

Personally I'd rather have the freedom of not having to answer for my lifestyle while still being able to get a job (and fast track visa or immigration status) anywhere in the world because of niche IT skills. But whatever. We're all worm food anyways so if it works for you then go for it.

[AVisitor]

(05-19-2011 04:33 PM)rakishness Wrote:  

Bethesda does have a couple of bars but last call is early. The girls are typically better looking then the girls you see in DC but its very cliqish. They all went to high school together and ignore outsiders

That's so true. Anybody been to Rock Bottom on Thursday for their happy hour? Can you say, 'High-school-clique douchebaggery', especially on the 2nd floor. Jocks in baseball caps and flip-flops playing pool with their cookie-cutter blonde GFs in tow. It's the same at the other bars like Caddie's or Union Jack.

[AVisitor]

(05-16-2011 02:04 PM)rakishness Wrote:  

The few girls that you even see out will put very little effort into their dress. Is it so hard to put on makeup and high heels at least?

The exact same thought has been on my mind for years.

The only explanation I can think of is that the local girls come from parts of the US where dressing up isn't the norm, and that is pretty much the entire United States with one exception: the NY/NJ area in the Northeast. The reason NY/NJ girls dress sexy is because that is an immigrant stronghold with European culture such as Italian, Polish, and Russian, and those girls have classy, trendy looks in their culture. It's the same in Toronto and Montreal.

Here in DC, though, we have "real" American girls, who are "old-stock" Anglo or Western European. Their culture is American. When I say that I mean casual, laid-back, "one-of-the-guys," down-to-earth, sporty kind of culture. They not only don't dress up, they hate it when others do. They have other values and beliefs.

[IndianaJones]

(06-06-2011 12:29 PM)AVisitor Wrote:  

Here in DC, though, we have "real" American girls, who are "old-stock" Anglo or Western European. Their culture is American. When I say that I mean casual, laid-back, "one-of-the-guys," down-to-earth, sporty kind of culture. They not only don't dress up, they hate it when others do. They have other values and beliefs.

To me it's a two-parter:

1. A lot of the girls come here from the Midwest or other areas where they don't know how to dress properly. They're also more likely to be half-brainwashed by feminist ideas and not too attractive, so the idea of dressing up isn't too appealing to them.

2. They have no real need to dress up because social life and the men in the D.C. area don't require it. Why would a girl need to get dressed up only to get packed in like cattle into a dilapidated rowhouse? And to be honest, most of the men here don't want to commit to dressing well either, so we give women an out that way too.

The only chicks I ever see who are dressed up are trying to land an upperclass guy, someone with a trust fund or some other form of wealth. Most people reside within the parameters of their average surroundings though.

What can guys do about it? Create an expectation when you interact with D.C. women that they be properly attired. Just like that old post where Roosh called out a cockblock, you need to be the one who calls out the flipflops and the form-hiding clothes. Of course, that means you need to come correct with your style as well.

[Chad Daring]

(07-11-2011 01:45 PM)IndianaJones Wrote:  

(06-06-2011 12:29 PM)AVisitor Wrote:  

Here in DC, though, we have "real" American girls, who are "old-stock" Anglo or Western European. Their culture is American. When I say that I mean casual, laid-back, "one-of-the-guys," down-to-earth, sporty kind of culture. They not only don't dress up, they hate it when others do. They have other values and beliefs.

To me it's a two-parter:

1. A lot of the girls come here from the Midwest or other areas where they don't know how to dress properly. They're also more likely to be half-brainwashed by feminist ideas and not too attractive, so the idea of dressing up isn't too appealing to them.

2. They have no real need to dress up because social life and the men in the D.C. area don't require it. Why would a girl need to get dressed up only to get packed in like cattle into a dilapidated rowhouse? And to be honest, most of the men here don't want to commit to dressing well either, so we give women an out that way too.

The only chicks I ever see who are dressed up are trying to land an upperclass guy, someone with a trust fund or some other form of wealth. Most people reside within the parameters of their average surroundings though.

What can guys do about it? Create an expectation when you interact with D.C. women that they be properly attired. Just like that old post where Roosh called out a cockblock, you need to be the one who calls out the flipflops and the form-hiding clothes. Of course, that means you need to come correct with your style as well.

Dont blame the MidWest for the DC shithole. I'm from Ohio and one thing I remember was the abundance of cute "girl next door" types. They may not wear dresses but they knew how to manage with a nice pair of jeans and female cut form fitting shirts.

[IndianaJones]

(07-11-2011 05:43 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  

(07-11-2011 01:45 PM)IndianaJones Wrote:  

(06-06-2011 12:29 PM)AVisitor Wrote:  

Here in DC, though, we have "real" American girls, who are "old-stock" Anglo or Western European. Their culture is American. When I say that I mean casual, laid-back, "one-of-the-guys," down-to-earth, sporty kind of culture. They not only don't dress up, they hate it when others do. They have other values and beliefs.

To me it's a two-parter:

1. A lot of the girls come here from the Midwest or other areas where they don't know how to dress properly. They're also more likely to be half-brainwashed by feminist ideas and not too attractive, so the idea of dressing up isn't too appealing to them.

2. They have no real need to dress up because social life and the men in the D.C. area don't require it. Why would a girl need to get dressed up only to get packed in like cattle into a dilapidated rowhouse? And to be honest, most of the men here don't want to commit to dressing well either, so we give women an out that way too.

The only chicks I ever see who are dressed up are trying to land an upperclass guy, someone with a trust fund or some other form of wealth. Most people reside within the parameters of their average surroundings though.

What can guys do about it? Create an expectation when you interact with D.C. women that they be properly attired. Just like that old post where Roosh called out a cockblock, you need to be the one who calls out the flipflops and the form-hiding clothes. Of course, that means you need to come correct with your style as well.

Dont blame the MidWest for the DC shithole. I'm from Ohio and one thing I remember was the abundance of cute "girl next door" types. They may not wear dresses but they knew how to manage with a nice pair of jeans and female cut form fitting shirts.

That might cut it in Cincinnati but that's underdressed for a lot of places in D.C., for better or worse. Of course it's harder to upgrade a wardrobe when living here is expensive as fuck in the first place.