[ibaguesucks305]

(05-12-2011 08:07 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

(05-12-2011 07:23 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

In the US, things are reversed. We try to lock down younger girls and make their male attraction to them almost taboo, while pedestalizing older women who in most other parts of the world would be "over the hill". That's where this whole cougar phenomenon is coming from.

This is how we end up with an entire generation of women adhering to a "Sex and the City" lifestyle, 30-35 year old women acting as though they are still in their prime and doggedly denying any notion that their waiting until 29 to even think about settling down will have any effect on them, and men who are so emasculated and desensitized by this system that they start ignoring younger women, going out of their way to deny their own sexuality.

+1.

I'm often beating the drum (occasionally in this forum, but mostly elsewhere) of the absurdity of the age-of-consent laws in certain states of this country (US) and the schizophrenic infantilization of young-adult women on the one hand, but open, overt sexualization on the other*--sometimes at the expense of idiotic, misplaced insults from dudes that have been guilted and manipulated into denying their own human nature and the reality of most of recorded history. One of the most misused and abused words in the English language is "pedophile."

But to draw connections to the other side of the equation, to the tragic proliferation of the "Sex in the City" lifestyle and absurd celebration of "cougar-dom" is simply rock-solid conclusion-drawing.

Nothing to add there. Print it.

* Disney, ABC, and "the Family Channel" (all, incidentally, owned by the same company) are the most guilty of this cynical manipulation of the taboo culture around "underage" sexuality. Tune in to any one of those channels for 5-10 minutes during Primetime and watch just the commercials. It's clear as day.

there is actually a new show on MTV and in one episode a teenage girl gets fucked up on pills and tries to fuck a 50 year old man.

[ibaguesucks305]

(06-17-2011 01:53 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(06-17-2011 01:40 PM)ibaguesucks305 Wrote:  

colombian girls like older guys its as simple as that, i live in tolima and i have a 21 year old friend and his girlfriend is only 15, fuckin weird i know.

What's so weird about it? Is the girl attractive? If so, I don't see the issue. That's a legal age in much of the developed world, and I see age differences twice that big in my family quite commonly.
When you're 21 and in the same position, I'm sure you won't mind seeing these younger options available to you.

well to be honest she is about a 7 in my opinion, shes not ugly but not hot enough to be fucking with if you are 21

[Excelsior]

(06-17-2011 02:11 PM)ibaguesucks305 Wrote:  

well to be honest she is about a 7 in my opinion, shes not ugly but not hot enough to be fucking with if you are 21

So a 15 year old 7 is off limits, but if this girl were 18 or 20 it would be ok. And if this 15 year old were a 9 it would also be ok. Am I right?

Would she be hot enough to fuck if he was 20? How hot exactly would she need to be at 15 to justify his attention at 21? If she were an 8, would it be ok? What if she were a 16 year old 7-would she meet the bar then? Or would she need to be a 17 year old 7 to justify his attention?
If she were 14 but somehow a solid 9, would that be ok? And what happens when one guy thinks the 15 year old is a 7(not hot enough) and a few others think she is an 8? Does the acceptability vary along with each guy's standards and perceptions of who is/isn't hot?

And also, what exactly determines these limits/standards you've set for who is and who isn't hot enough to see at certain ages, and what is the reasoning/justification behind them? Is it legal? Do you have any evidence to show the ill effects of a 21 year old paying attention to a 15 year old who is only a 7 and why such a thing should be avoided? Can you also show me the relatively greater benefits this guy would get if she were an 8 or 9 instead of just a 7, or if she were 1 year older(or he 1 year or two younger)?

I'd appreciate it.

[ManAbout]

(06-17-2011 11:37 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

So a 15 year old 7 is off limits, but if this girl were 18 or 20 it would be ok. And if this 15 year old were a 9 it would also be ok. Am I right?

Would she be hot enough to fuck if he was 20? How hot exactly would she need to be at 15 to justify his attention at 21? If she were an 8, would it be ok? What if she were a 16 year old 7-would she meet the bar then? Or would she need to be a 17 year old 7 to justify his attention?
If she were 14 but somehow a solid 9, would that be ok? And what happens when one guy thinks the 15 year old is a 7(not hot enough) and a few others think she is an 8? Does the acceptability vary along with each guy's standards and perceptions of who is/isn't hot?

And also, what exactly determines these limits/standards you've set for who is and who isn't hot enough to see at certain ages, and what is the reasoning/justification behind them? Is it legal? Do you have any evidence to show the ill effects of a 21 year old paying attention to a 15 year old who is only a 7 and why such a thing should be avoided? Can you also show me the relatively greater benefits this guy would get if she were an 8 or 9 instead of just a 7, or if she were 1 year older(or he 1 year or two younger)?

I'd appreciate it.

You know what I find incredible? While heterosexual adult men are made to feel guilty about being attracted to a sexually mature female, not only is is perfectly acceptable for gay men to be attracted to each other, their rights now seem to supercede those of heterosexual men.

They celebrate their sexuality with massive parades and displays of homosexual behaviour. On the other hand, heterosexual men are made to feel that they should be ashamed about their feelings.

This is ridiculous in the extreme.

[Excelsior]

(06-18-2011 10:20 AM)ManAbout Wrote:  

You know what I find incredible? While heterosexual adult men are made to feel guilty about being attracted to a sexually mature female, not only is is perfectly acceptable for gay men to be attracted to each other, their rights now seem to supercede those of heterosexual men.

They celebrate their sexuality with massive parades and displays of homosexual behaviour. On the other hand, heterosexual men are made to feel that they should be ashamed about their feelings.

This is ridiculous in the extreme.

Yeah, it is a pretty interesting dynamic. Heterosexual men are being encouraged to vehemently deny or rationalize away their natural feelings/attractions while women and gays are encouraged to release all restrictions on their own desires/actions.

One group(straight males) is being shamed into playing by an old set of rules while the other(women primarily) is being taught and encouraged to play by an entirely new set.
Of course we have obvious problems that result from this, but then we also shame people for pointing them out.

[ibaguesucks305]

(06-17-2011 11:37 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(06-17-2011 02:11 PM)ibaguesucks305 Wrote:  

well to be honest she is about a 7 in my opinion, shes not ugly but not hot enough to be fucking with if you are 21

So a 15 year old 7 is off limits, but if this girl were 18 or 20 it would be ok. And if this 15 year old were a 9 it would also be ok. Am I right?

Would she be hot enough to fuck if he was 20? How hot exactly would she need to be at 15 to justify his attention at 21? If she were an 8, would it be ok? What if she were a 16 year old 7-would she meet the bar then? Or would she need to be a 17 year old 7 to justify his attention?
If she were 14 but somehow a solid 9, would that be ok? And what happens when one guy thinks the 15 year old is a 7(not hot enough) and a few others think she is an 8? Does the acceptability vary along with each guy's standards and perceptions of who is/isn't hot?

And also, what exactly determines these limits/standards you've set for who is and who isn't hot enough to see at certain ages, and what is the reasoning/justification behind them? Is it legal? Do you have any evidence to show the ill effects of a 21 year old paying attention to a 15 year old who is only a 7 and why such a thing should be avoided? Can you also show me the relatively greater benefits this guy would get if she were an 8 or 9 instead of just a 7, or if she were 1 year older(or he 1 year or two younger)?

I'd appreciate it.

well i personally think that if someone is 21 and he/she is dating anyone under the age of 18 its somewhat weird. i also think that if the person that you are dating is years younger than you are what the fuck is the point if that person isnt a 8-10, because if you are 20-22 and a 6-7 it is fairly easy to attain 8-10 that is in the age group of 15-18, because that younger person can brag to their friends that my boyfriend/girlfriend is older, mature and has more money than most other people in my age group.
also im not saying that a 15 year old 7 is off limits i just personally think its strange.
aslo look at things through my point of view, if all the girls at your high school are being gamed on by 20-23 year old guys how the fuck are you supposed to compete with that(considering they have a car,a job, and are about 7s-8s). i have seen shit like that happen on several different occasions and it sucks, it makes me feel like damn why cant this 20 something year faggot game on a 20 something year old girl instead of trying to fuck all the hot girls at my school. and im sure the same shit happened to you when you were my age.

[Brazmerican]

[/quote]
well i personally think that if someone is 21 and he/she is dating anyone under the age of 18 its somewhat weird. i also think that if the person that you are dating is years younger than you are what the fuck is the point if that person isnt a 8-10, because if you are 20-22 and a 6-7 it is fairly easy to attain 8-10 that is in the age group of 15-18, because that younger person can brag to their friends that my boyfriend/girlfriend is older, mature and has more money than most other people in my age group.
also im not saying that a 15 year old 7 is off limits i just personally think its strange.
aslo look at things through my point of view, if all the girls at your high school are being gamed on by 20-23 year old guys how the fuck are you supposed to compete with that(considering they have a car,a job, and are about 7s-8s). i have seen shit like that happen on several different occasions and it sucks, it makes me feel like damn why cant this 20 something year faggot game on a 20 something year old girl instead of trying to fuck all the hot girls at my school. and im sure the same shit happened to you when you were my age.
[/quote]

Oh my god dude, how old are you? I don't even know where to begin!

1- Pussy doesn't get any tighter than on a 17yo, for starters.
2 - How can you a call a 20-23 yo guy stealing the hottest girls a fag?
3 - Competition is what it's all about. Get used to it now or continue to be a whining beta for the rest of your life!
4 - You are surrounded by pussy and obviously not doing anything about if you have time to complain about 23 year olds swooping your classmates.

Do you actually try to pick up these girls or do you just get pissed when others do? These older guys offer them something more, and there is NOTHING strange or weird about it. Males work, make money, and drive nice cars to attract the opposite sex. It's what drives us, and part of the natural selection process, and it's what you need to do as well to get these girls! I'm sure you're a good kid, but the sooner you accept these facts of life the better.

p.s. The same thing happened to me when I was your age, but I tried to learn from the older guys instead of getting pissed at them.

[Saladin]

The legal age of consent in Canada's pretty unusual, its hard to interpret....
Anybody know what it is exactly?
I hear its 16 but only if you are around that age, and if you are older its considered an exploitative relationship.
I'm 17 so I'm not worried about anything, just wanted to know for curiosity's sake.

[Gringo]

Quote:

Males work, make money, and drive nice cars to attract the opposite sex. It's what drives us, and part of the natural selection process, and it's what you need to do as well to get these girls!

I disagree. Telling someone they need to have money and drive a nice car to get girls is wrong. You can get girls without any of that if you know how to handle them. Having a wad of cash and a flashy car means absolutely nothing!

[Brazmerican]

(06-19-2011 05:39 AM)Gringo Wrote:  

Quote:

Males work, make money, and drive nice cars to attract the opposite sex. It's what drives us, and part of the natural selection process, and it's what you need to do as well to get these girls!

I disagree. Telling someone they need to have money and drive a nice car to get girls is wrong. You can get girls without any of that if you know how to handle them. Having a wad of cash and a flashy car means absolutely nothing!

I'll retract the last part of this statement, but you can't deny that males do the things they do primarily to attract the best possible women. Of course you'll get laid sometimes if you don't have a wad of cash and a fancy car, but for him to COMPLAIN that he's not getting laid because of it is wrong, and it's the point I'm trying to get across to him. Try getting laid at 40 without wheels and some pocket change!

[Gringo]

Usually the men who needs to show off their wealth and flashy cars / houses / whatever are the ones who are over compensating for something else, or the lack of it. None of those things are essential and I wouldn't encourage anyone to think they need lots of money and a set of wheels in order to get girls. Far from it.

[Excelsior]

(06-18-2011 03:05 PM)ibaguesucks305 Wrote:  

look at things through my point of view, if all the girls at your high school are being gamed on by 20-23 year old guys how the fuck are you supposed to compete with that(considering they have a car,a job, and are about 7s-8s). i have seen shit like that happen on several different occasions and it sucks, it makes me feel like damn why cant this 20 something year faggot game on a 20 something year old girl instead of trying to fuck all the hot girls at my school. and im sure the same shit happened to you when you were my age.

Ah, now we've found the real reason behind your complaints!

You're actually playing a tried and true feminist card here logically. Older women in the USA (where feminism is most hostile to men) are acutely aware of their declining sexual market value as they hit and pass age 30. They often respond to this reality with shaming tactics expressed both in reality and in the media.

They'll shame men their age (who they know are gaining more sexual market value and are now more easily able to approach younger women) for seeing women 8-10 years their junior (an action that naturally leaves them short of eligible men). They'll shame them with statements about how those dating habits are "creepy" or "weird"(without having any explanation as to why specifically), how men who date younger are "not ready for real women", and other stuff like that.

You're doing the exact same thing right now. You realize that as a young man you have low sexual market value relative to your older male peers. You also know that your same age female peers have enough sexual market value to bypass you and go right for those older males. Naturally, this bothers you-there isn't much you can do to correct this dynamic as you simply don't have the value yet to match, value that only comes with age. You're mad that you can't get the pussy yet, so you respond by shaming those older males who occupy your female peers (call them weird, fag, etc). Your shaming arguments have no actual basis in logic and reason and are about as rational as those we see from feminists condemning men who date younger women or who refuse to marry women their age ("manning up" they call it).

They're also easy to see through, which is why you need to work hard to get rid of them and this mentality behind them. They will not make your problem go to way-you're just banging your head against a brick wall, and that brick wall is biology.

Men are hardwired to prefer fertility cues (tight bodies, no wrinkles, firm breasts, etc), which women lose as they age(hence, men seek younger women). Women naturally select for intangible personal qualities (confidence, focus, discipline, ability to show mastery of hobbies/skills) and more tangible things like wealth, status, and power in men, and men only gain these things with age (hence, women tend to want to date older men).

We age like wine. Women age like milk. We as men have none of what they want when we're young (unless we are talented enough to become professional athletes or entertainers, or lucky enough to inherit a lot of money), but we gain all of what they want as we age. It gets better for us with time, and worse for them.

I am currently 20 years old. I'm in college, just finished my second year. I go to one of the best schools in the USA, became an athlete at the highest collegiate level of my sport in the country, and get good grades. On paper, I have lots of potential. But I know that in the back of my head, it will be perhaps up to a decade before this potential is fully realized. Its good that I have potential, but at my age I simply do not have many of the things that women truly want in men right now. Girls my age want men who have already gone places, already made a strong career and earned the money, status, power and confidence(success will show on you) that comes with all of that. Until I age and get these things, those men will ALWAYS have a massive advantage over me. Right now, I'm just a broke, unestablished college kid. I have no money, no car, basic clothes and no status or power. Girls want more, and unless my game is VERY good they'll move right by me.

When I turn 30 and have finished graduate school, gotten a great job and a big salary, bought a nice place and a cool car, I know my fortunes with women will improve immensely. I'll have taken my potential, which I've always had, and finally turned it into the tangible things that women want to see from men. They'll come running then.

But for now, like you and millions of other young men out there, I have to suck it up. If I want to get at girls, I'm going to need to use far tighter game now than I will in 10 years. That is the sad truth.

If you can accept this reality as a young man you can work to improve yourself so that, when your time comes, you'll have much more to offer women and will be in an even better position at age 22+ than those guys you're complaining about now.

But what you're doing right now is not the answer. Shaming is the domain of the weak, a strategy trotted out by the desperate who are in such a bad position that they have no logical or rational tactics to turn to. It is a mark of insecurity. Shaming language, which you've used often in your last few posts, is easy to see through, especially for women(they are extremely perceptive by nature). When they sense your insecurity, you'll make things much harder for yourself than they already are.

Trust me: I know where you are. I know what it is like to witness this hypergamous truth about women dating up. I've felt the rejections from it, and they're very painful, especially when you realize you can't do much about the disadvantage except wait and you really do care for the girl. It is easy to become bitter with women, depressed/sad, or to start shaming in defense. I get it.

But if you want any chance of coming out of this well, you will have to swallow the bitter pill that is your reality as a young man, and bide your time. In the meantime, you can better yourself intellectually, master new hobbies and passions, learn game and get to a point that will allow you to really maximize your potential later when it is realized. That is the only way to cope with this truth.

This reality about women is not the end of the world. In fact, the best things for you have yet to come.

[Brazmerican]

(06-20-2011 08:11 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(06-18-2011 03:05 PM)ibaguesucks305 Wrote:  

look at things through my point of view, if all the girls at your high school are being gamed on by 20-23 year old guys how the fuck are you supposed to compete with that(considering they have a car,a job, and are about 7s-8s). i have seen shit like that happen on several different occasions and it sucks, it makes me feel like damn why cant this 20 something year faggot game on a 20 something year old girl instead of trying to fuck all the hot girls at my school. and im sure the same shit happened to you when you were my age.

Ah, now we've found the real reason behind your complaints!

You're actually playing a tried and true feminist card here logically. Older women in the USA (where feminism is most hostile to men) are acutely aware of their declining sexual market value as they hit and pass age 30. They often respond to this reality with shaming tactics expressed both in reality and in the media.

They'll shame men their age (who they know are gaining more sexual market value and are now more easily able to approach younger women) for seeing women 8-10 years their junior (an action that naturally leaves them short of eligible men). They'll shame them with statements about how those dating habits are "creepy" or "weird"(without having any explanation as to why specifically), how men who date younger are "not ready for real women", and other stuff like that.

You're doing the exact same thing right now. You realize that as a young man you have low sexual market value relative to your older male peers. You also know that your same age female peers have enough sexual market value to bypass you and go right for those older males. Naturally, this bothers you-there isn't much you can do to correct this dynamic as you simply don't have the value yet to match, value that only comes with age. You're mad that you can't get the pussy yet, so you respond by shaming those older males who occupy your female peers (call them weird, fag, etc). Your shaming arguments have no actual basis in logic and reason and are about as rational as those we see from feminists condemning men who date younger women or who refuse to marry women their age ("manning up" they call it).

They're also easy to see through, which is why you need to work hard to get rid of them and this mentality behind them. They will not make your problem go to way-you're just banging your head against a brick wall, and that brick wall is biology.

Men are hardwired to prefer fertility cues (tight bodies, no wrinkles, firm breasts, etc), which women lose as they age(hence, men seek younger women). Women naturally select for intangible personal qualities (confidence, focus, discipline, ability to show mastery of hobbies/skills) and more tangible things like wealth, status, and power in men, and men only gain these things with age (hence, women tend to want to date older men).

We age like wine. Women age like milk. We as men have none of what they want when we're young (unless we are talented enough to become professional athletes or entertainers, or lucky enough to inherit a lot of money), but we gain all of what they want as we age. It gets better for us with time, and worse for them.

I am currently 20 years old. I'm in college, just finished my second year. I go to one of the best schools in the USA, became an athlete at the highest collegiate level of my sport in the country, and get good grades. On paper, I have lots of potential. But I know that in the back of my head, it will be perhaps up to a decade before this potential is fully realized. Its good that I have potential, but at my age I simply do not have many of the things that women truly want in men right now. Girls my age want men who have already gone places, already made a strong career and earned the money, status, power and confidence(success will show on you) that comes with all of that. Until I age and get these things, those men will ALWAYS have a massive advantage over me. Right now, I'm just a broke, unestablished college kid. I have no money, no car, basic clothes and no status or power. Girls want more, and unless my game is VERY good they'll move right by me.

When I turn 30 and have finished graduate school, gotten a great job and a big salary, bought a nice place and a cool car, I know my fortunes with women will improve immensely. I'll have taken my potential, which I've always had, and finally turned it into the tangible things that women want to see from men. They'll come running then.

But for now, like you and millions of other young men out there, I have to suck it up. If I want to get at girls, I'm going to need to use far tighter game now than I will in 10 years. That is the sad truth.

If you can accept this reality as a young man you can work to improve yourself so that, when your time comes, you'll have much more to offer women and will be in an even better position at age 22+ than those guys you're complaining about now.

But what you're doing right now is not the answer. Shaming is the domain of the weak, a strategy trotted out by the desperate who are in such a bad position that they have no logical or rational tactics to turn to. It is a mark of insecurity. Shaming language, which you've used often in your last few posts, is easy to see through, especially for women(they are extremely perceptive by nature). When they sense your insecurity, you'll make things much harder for yourself than they already are.

Trust me: I know where you are. I know what it is like to witness this hypergamous truth about women dating up. I've felt the rejections from it, and they're very painful, especially when you realize you can't do much about the disadvantage except wait and you really do care for the girl. It is easy to become bitter with women, depressed/sad, or to start shaming in defense. I get it.

But if you want any chance of coming out of this well, you will have to swallow the bitter pill that is your reality as a young man, and bide your time. In the meantime, you can better yourself intellectually, master new hobbies and passions, learn game and get to a point that will allow you to really maximize your potential later when it is realized. That is the only way to cope with this truth.

This reality about women is not the end of the world. In fact, the best things for you have yet to come.

Wow.... great reply Athlone. You are a man beyond your years. You're really only 20? I'm sure you get your fair share... I just saw in another thread that the OP is only 16. You're dead on, and I tried to say it less eloquently, that he needs to adjust his overall attitude about women asap if he expects things to get better.

[Saladin]

(06-20-2011 08:11 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(06-18-2011 03:05 PM)ibaguesucks305 Wrote:  

look at things through my point of view, if all the girls at your high school are being gamed on by 20-23 year old guys how the fuck are you supposed to compete with that(considering they have a car,a job, and are about 7s-8s). i have seen shit like that happen on several different occasions and it sucks, it makes me feel like damn why cant this 20 something year faggot game on a 20 something year old girl instead of trying to fuck all the hot girls at my school. and im sure the same shit happened to you when you were my age.

Ah, now we've found the real reason behind your complaints!

You're actually playing a tried and true feminist card here logically. Older women in the USA (where feminism is most hostile to men) are acutely aware of their declining sexual market value as they hit and pass age 30. They often respond to this reality with shaming tactics expressed both in reality and in the media.

They'll shame men their age (who they know are gaining more sexual market value and are now more easily able to approach younger women) for seeing women 8-10 years their junior (an action that naturally leaves them short of eligible men). They'll shame them with statements about how those dating habits are "creepy" or "weird"(without having any explanation as to why specifically), how men who date younger are "not ready for real women", and other stuff like that.

You're doing the exact same thing right now. You realize that as a young man you have low sexual market value relative to your older male peers. You also know that your same age female peers have enough sexual market value to bypass you and go right for those older males. Naturally, this bothers you-there isn't much you can do to correct this dynamic as you simply don't have the value yet to match, value that only comes with age. You're mad that you can't get the pussy yet, so you respond by shaming those older males who occupy your female peers (call them weird, fag, etc). Your shaming arguments have no actual basis in logic and reason and are about as rational as those we see from feminists condemning men who date younger women or who refuse to marry women their age ("manning up" they call it).

They're also easy to see through, which is why you need to work hard to get rid of them and this mentality behind them. They will not make your problem go to way-you're just banging your head against a brick wall, and that brick wall is biology.

Men are hardwired to prefer fertility cues (tight bodies, no wrinkles, firm breasts, etc), which women lose as they age(hence, men seek younger women). Women naturally select for intangible personal qualities (confidence, focus, discipline, ability to show mastery of hobbies/skills) and more tangible things like wealth, status, and power in men, and men only gain these things with age (hence, women tend to want to date older men).

We age like wine. Women age like milk. We as men have none of what they want when we're young (unless we are talented enough to become professional athletes or entertainers, or lucky enough to inherit a lot of money), but we gain all of what they want as we age. It gets better for us with time, and worse for them.

I am currently 20 years old. I'm in college, just finished my second year. I go to one of the best schools in the USA, became an athlete at the highest collegiate level of my sport in the country, and get good grades. On paper, I have lots of potential. But I know that in the back of my head, it will be perhaps up to a decade before this potential is fully realized. Its good that I have potential, but at my age I simply do not have many of the things that women truly want in men right now. Girls my age want men who have already gone places, already made a strong career and earned the money, status, power and confidence(success will show on you) that comes with all of that. Until I age and get these things, those men will ALWAYS have a massive advantage over me. Right now, I'm just a broke, unestablished college kid. I have no money, no car, basic clothes and no status or power. Girls want more, and unless my game is VERY good they'll move right by me.

When I turn 30 and have finished graduate school, gotten a great job and a big salary, bought a nice place and a cool car, I know my fortunes with women will improve immensely. I'll have taken my potential, which I've always had, and finally turned it into the tangible things that women want to see from men. They'll come running then.

But for now, like you and millions of other young men out there, I have to suck it up. If I want to get at girls, I'm going to need to use far tighter game now than I will in 10 years. That is the sad truth.

If you can accept this reality as a young man you can work to improve yourself so that, when your time comes, you'll have much more to offer women and will be in an even better position at age 22+ than those guys you're complaining about now.

But what you're doing right now is not the answer. Shaming is the domain of the weak, a strategy trotted out by the desperate who are in such a bad position that they have no logical or rational tactics to turn to. It is a mark of insecurity. Shaming language, which you've used often in your last few posts, is easy to see through, especially for women(they are extremely perceptive by nature). When they sense your insecurity, you'll make things much harder for yourself than they already are.

Trust me: I know where you are. I know what it is like to witness this hypergamous truth about women dating up. I've felt the rejections from it, and they're very painful, especially when you realize you can't do much about the disadvantage except wait and you really do care for the girl. It is easy to become bitter with women, depressed/sad, or to start shaming in defense. I get it.

But if you want any chance of coming out of this well, you will have to swallow the bitter pill that is your reality as a young man, and bide your time. In the meantime, you can better yourself intellectually, master new hobbies and passions, learn game and get to a point that will allow you to really maximize your potential later when it is realized. That is the only way to cope with this truth.

This reality about women is not the end of the world. In fact, the best things for you have yet to come.

I feel like your Ivy League surroundings has made you jaded. A football player at MSU(I used to live near there) will get laid constantly.
I want to excel but I want to excel for myself. I think that money, looks, or status aren't really necessities for game until you hit your 40s.
You are making it sound like you must maximize your "potential" for women to get them. But that is not a necessity. Yes these things will add to you but they must be done for yourself and not out of a need to impress other people. They must be things that make you feel pride and happiness that you accomplished them. You must do them for the right reasons and not to be a better catch for a women. Don't get a high end stressful job to impress a girl or make yourself money you don't need. Get it because you truly enjoy your work and its your passion.

[Saladin]

Also the observations about it being tough for young men is bullshit.
Yes its harder.
But it can be overcome through learning game.
If you spend 1 year learning game and applying it in cold approach 3-4 days a week while pushing yourself you'll be a completely changed person.
Yes, your Ivy League environment with very few attractive girls isn't an ideal place and probably explains why you are so frustrated. Very few men can work such a horrible situation to their advantage so I understand your viewpoint.
However those of us in big cities can do hundreds of approaches without any repercussions to build our game and self confidence. A year of doing this will yield huge results for almost all people. Your best approach now is your average approach in 6 months. Which is so true. My best approach when I started 6 months ago was to get a girl to stop and chat for a minute, that is now a mediocre approach for me.

[Excelsior]

(06-20-2011 11:54 PM)torontokid Wrote:  

I feel like your Ivy League surroundings has made you jaded. A football player at MSU(I used to live near there) will get laid constantly.

You can't compare the experience at MSU to that of most college football players. Those guys play on the most visible stage of all, which ups their celebrity status, and they go to one of the larger state/party schools in the country at the same time.
It isn't as easy for guys at the thousands of other schools you don't know that play in the lower tiers of Division One, D-2, D-3, NAIA or NJCAA(Junior College).

I'll concede that the institutions in the Ivy League may be among the worst of all schools in terms of football being a sign of status with girls, but while most other schools at all levels may do better in that regard, the experience you'll see at an MSU, Wisconsin, Alabama or an Indiana (where as a football player you have so much near-celebrity status that you can't help but get laid constantly) is not at all the norm.

Quote:

I want to excel but I want to excel for myself. I think that money, looks, or status aren't really necessities for game until you hit your 40s.

I'd be very careful about underestimating the value of those things.
Sure, it may be possible to get laid without them in your late 20's/early 30's, but it is also quite a bit more difficult to be without them than it is to be with them.

If you have a chance to acquire those traits as a man, you're better off getting them than not.

Quote:

You are making it sound like you must maximize your "potential" for women to get them. But that is not a necessity.

I didn't say that. I conceded that, while I can get girls as I am, my game needs to be far tighter now than it will need to be in ten years when my potential is realized. That's just a fact-life gets a lot easier for men as they age and come into a career/money.

Quote:

They must be things that make you feel pride and happiness that you accomplished them. You must do them for the right reasons and not to be a better catch for a women. Don't get a high end stressful job to impress a girl or make yourself money you don't need. Get it because you truly enjoy your work and its your passion.

I agree with you, though you don't need a super high-end stressful job to reap the benefits of age/status I mentioned before.
Making $250k a year as a 30 year old at some big bank is useful, but a lot of men experience similar advantages on $60-80k(assuming they know how to manage their money well). You don't need millions.

(06-21-2011 12:10 AM)torontokid Wrote:  

Also the observations about it being tough for young men is bullshit.
Yes its harder.
But it can be overcome through learning game.
If you spend 1 year learning game and applying it in cold approach 3-4 days a week while pushing yourself you'll be a completely changed person.

You just proved my point, and restated what I stated before.

(06-20-2011 08:11 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

But for now, like you and millions of other young men out there, I have to suck it up. If I want to get at girls, I'm going to need to use far tighter game now than I will in 10 years. That is the sad truth.

Learning game is not easy. Cold approaching dozens(or hundreds) of women and getting shot down literally 95% of the time is not easy. Spending a year doing all of this is not easy, and I haven't even mentioned the fact that not every man can get good at game (even the best have at most a 10% success rate by their own admission).

You can move forward with this strategy anyway if you wish, but at the end of the day whether you apply game or not, you will still be working much harder(investing more time, effort, money, and enduring a lower success rate) than the 40 year old white-collar professional down the road with the Corvette and the centrally located Condo. There is a reason why most of the larger PUA-forums out there are filled primarily with younger men(most under 30). Older men need game too, but younger men need it more because they have less of what women really want(power, status, experience, confidence, money, etc).

Game or no game, life gets far easier for men with those things. There is now way around this fact and there is no cheat code to make it go away. Those are the things that women want, and men who have them have it far easier than those who don't(and those men who have it are usually older).

Men who don't can compensate by learning game, but that will still mean that they are working harder.

Quote:

However those of us in big cities can do hundreds of approaches without any repercussions to build our game and self confidence. A year of doing this will yield huge results for almost all people. Your best approach now is your average approach in 6 months. Which is so true. My best approach when I started 6 months ago was to get a girl to stop and chat for a minute, that is now a mediocre approach for me.

You're still working harder, which is my point.

[Saladin]

(06-21-2011 07:20 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(06-20-2011 11:54 PM)torontokid Wrote:  

I feel like your Ivy League surroundings has made you jaded. A football player at MSU(I used to live near there) will get laid constantly.

You can't compare the experience at MSU to that of most college football players. Those guys play on the most visible stage of all, which ups their celebrity status, and they go to one of the larger state/party schools in the country at the same time.
It isn't as easy for guys at the thousands of other schools you don't know that play in the lower tiers of Division One, D-2, D-3, NAIA or NJCAA(Junior College).

I'll concede that the institutions in the Ivy League may be among the worst of all schools in terms of football being a sign of status with girls, but while most other schools at all levels may do better in that regard, the experience you'll see at an MSU, Wisconsin, Alabama or an Indiana (where as a football player you have so much near-celebrity status that you can't help but get laid constantly) is not at all the norm.

Quote:

I want to excel but I want to excel for myself. I think that money, looks, or status aren't really necessities for game until you hit your 40s.

I'd be very careful about underestimating the value of those things.
Sure, it may be possible to get laid without them in your late 20's/early 30's, but it is also quite a bit more difficult to be without them than it is to be with them.

If you have a chance to acquire those traits as a man, you're better off getting them than not.

Quote:

You are making it sound like you must maximize your "potential" for women to get them. But that is not a necessity.

I didn't say that. I conceded that, while I can get girls as I am, my game needs to be far tighter now than it will need to be in ten years when my potential is realized. That's just a fact-life gets a lot easier for men as they age and come into a career/money.

Quote:

They must be things that make you feel pride and happiness that you accomplished them. You must do them for the right reasons and not to be a better catch for a women. Don't get a high end stressful job to impress a girl or make yourself money you don't need. Get it because you truly enjoy your work and its your passion.

I agree with you, though you don't need a super high-end stressful job to reap the benefits of age/status I mentioned before.
Making $250k a year as a 30 year old at some big bank is useful, but a lot of men experience similar advantages on $60-80k(assuming they know how to manage their money well). You don't need millions.

(06-21-2011 12:10 AM)torontokid Wrote:  

Also the observations about it being tough for young men is bullshit.
Yes its harder.
But it can be overcome through learning game.
If you spend 1 year learning game and applying it in cold approach 3-4 days a week while pushing yourself you'll be a completely changed person.

You just proved my point, and restated what I stated before.

(06-20-2011 08:11 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

But for now, like you and millions of other young men out there, I have to suck it up. If I want to get at girls, I'm going to need to use far tighter game now than I will in 10 years. That is the sad truth.

Learning game is not easy. Cold approaching dozens(or hundreds) of women and getting shot down literally 95% of the time is not easy. Spending a year doing all of this is not easy, and I haven't even mentioned the fact that not every man can get good at game (even the best have at most a 10% success rate by their own admission).

You can move forward with this strategy anyway if you wish, but at the end of the day whether you apply game or not, you will still be working much harder(investing more time, effort, money, and enduring a lower success rate) than the 40 year old white-collar professional down the road with the Corvette and the centrally located Condo. There is a reason why most of the larger PUA-forums out there are filled primarily with younger men(most under 30). Older men need game too, but younger men need it more because they have less of what women really want(power, status, experience, confidence, money, etc).

Game or no game, life gets far easier for men with those things. There is now way around this fact and there is no cheat code to make it go away. Those are the things that women want, and men who have them have it far easier than those who don't(and those men who have it are usually older).

Men who don't can compensate by learning game, but that will still mean that they are working harder.

Quote:

However those of us in big cities can do hundreds of approaches without any repercussions to build our game and self confidence. A year of doing this will yield huge results for almost all people. Your best approach now is your average approach in 6 months. Which is so true. My best approach when I started 6 months ago was to get a girl to stop and chat for a minute, that is now a mediocre approach for me.

You're still working harder, which is my point.

Learning game isn't really work, its a hobby and a fun one at that. If you think of it as work then you're making it out to be far more difficult than it is. Its probably one of the best things a man can do for self improvement. I'd rather invest the time in bettering myself through game than spending it on something I don't particularly want or need because it makes me looks successful. Game and inner confidence cannot be taken from you, but your wealth can.

I do agree that money is required for logistics. A central location and cab fare is essential and those things require a decent amount of cash.
However I still would rather have game over a corvette or a large house. IN my view a Corvette is a drain of cash since if I wanted to have the novelty of driving a nice car I could just rent one for a week. A 1 Bedroom with a kitchen and bathroom is more than enough in terms of accommodation for me. Therefore Its nice to have a decent amount of cash so you can have the logistics to fuck chicks. No chick wants to travel 40 minutes on the subway to your parents basement. Roosh has made it work but also has lost out on bangs on it though.

A younger guy who learns from older guys and learns game early and well is gonna be a huge beast in his 20s and 30s. I'm talking about Mixx level game here. Instead of telling a newbie how everything is stacked against him and how it will take years to reach a level playing field you should encourage him and give him a positive outlook.

Look at his level of success at the age of 16-
http://pickupmadesimple.com/new-clip-arm...-in-dating

Also as you said game is not easy, but you need to find a wingman asap. Learning it by yourself is very difficult and you need people to hold you accountable. Ibaguesucks, find a wing man and make a pact to approach. Find older players in your area and have them show you around if you can.
But game not being easy is not an excuse, and facing rejections is something you have to deal with. However game is something any open minded man can learn, the only criteria being that you are willing to learn and you have basic social skills(A basic ability to read social cues and such). Also game is insanely fun and I have a blast talking to chicks and just being social. The fact is cold approach game is a blank canvas to be yourself and just let the chips fall where they may. It allows you to expand the limits of your personality because failure is tolerable. I don't see how its work. Yes it may be work for the first month or so but it soon becomes a hobby and something that you do to relax. Its simply a far better return on investment then material things in terms of women(other than possibly logistics).

[Excelsior]

(06-22-2011 01:08 AM)torontokid Wrote:  

Learning game isn't really work, its a hobby and a fun one at that. If you think of it as work then you're making it out to be far more difficult than it is. Its probably one of the best things a man can do for self improvement. I'd rather invest the time in bettering myself through game than spending it on something I don't particularly want or need because it makes me looks successful. Game and inner confidence cannot be taken from you, but your wealth can.

We'll need to agree to disagree, then. Our entire opposition to one another here is based on our entirely different outlooks on life and what is valuable/worthwhile within it. For a person like me, none of what you said above (or in the rest of the post, for that matter) would really apply-my approach to life/game/women/etc., therefore, is pretty much the opposite of what you say, as that works best for me. Different strokes for different folks-there is no point in arguing about it.

Hopefully, Ibaquesucks can decide for himself which path is right for him.

[pitt]

Resuming you guys discussion: If you look good, you approach, you are a very social person, you know how to escalate and create the physical contact, you will fuck a lot, simple. You dont need to spend that much time on gaming, its not that difficult at all.

Making money is a lot better, it will give you literally anything. Torontokid think about money while you still young, money is not even for the bitches, its for the freedom. And it brings a whole new package..fuck..its all about the paper..mob style

[MiXX]

(06-19-2011 01:57 AM)torontokid Wrote:  

The legal age of consent in Canada's pretty unusual, its hard to interpret....
Anybody know what it is exactly?
I hear its 16 but only if you are around that age, and if you are older its considered an exploitative relationship.
I'm 17 so I'm not worried about anything, just wanted to know for curiosity's sake.

It's 16 unless you are in a position of Authority. Example you are a 16 year old student, and.your teacher seduces you into bed. Or a police officer fucks a 16 year old or a boss fucks his secretary intern.

Otherwise

Mixx

[Saladin]

(06-22-2011 09:11 AM)MiXX Wrote:  

(06-19-2011 01:57 AM)torontokid Wrote:  

The legal age of consent in Canada's pretty unusual, its hard to interpret....
Anybody know what it is exactly?
I hear its 16 but only if you are around that age, and if you are older its considered an exploitative relationship.
I'm 17 so I'm not worried about anything, just wanted to know for curiosity's sake.

It's 16 unless you are in a position of Authority. Example you are a 16 year old student, and.your teacher seduces you into bed. Or a police officer fucks a 16 year old or a boss fucks his secretary intern.

Otherwise

Mixx

Did you get this from a proper source. I hear that for Under 18s there needs to be a 4 year age of difference. My friends criminal lawyer friend also said 18 is the age of consent here for older guys.
The laws here in Canada are confusing.....

[MiXX]

Yeah, the Canada Penal Code.


Looked pretty clear to me; fuck your 16 year old secretary or student, you go to jail. Fuck your 16 year old neighbor, or your sisters 16 year old best friend, and you get a standing ovation.

Besides you're barely 18 right? You're golden to fuck a 16 year old from any angle do long as you are not her supervisor at work.



Mixx

[Craig88]

Age and wealth might not be that important in terms of bangs but for me it's more than just that. I know some guy who is 23, poor and has no ambition in life and he's nearly at 100 bangs. I'd rather be living a lavish lifestyle of travelling the world in style, driving pimp cars and chilling in my penthouse over looking the sea with some high class girls than be some low paying 30 year old guy that has sick game and hits up the bars picking up trashy girls for snl's.

[ManAbout]

(06-22-2011 12:06 PM)MiXX Wrote:  

Yeah, the Canada Penal Code.


Looked pretty clear to me; fuck your 16 year old secretary or student, you go to jail. Fuck your 16 year old neighbor, or your sisters 16 year old best friend, and you get a standing ovation.


Mixx

Actually it is not that clear at all. The age of consent is 16, as long as it is not an exploitative relationship. Who determines whether it is an exploitative relationship or not? The judge, based on the history of the relationship, the supposed "level of control" the older party has over the younger, the age of the older person, etc.. etc. So, as you can see, it is totally up to his or her discretion.

[MiXX]

(06-22-2011 05:17 PM)ManAbout Wrote:  

Actually it is not that clear at all. The age of consent is 16, as long as it is not an exploitative relationship. Who determines whether it is an exploitative relationship or not? The judge, based on the history of the relationship, the supposed "level of control" the older party has over the younger, the age of the older person, etc.. etc. So, as you can see, it is totally up to his or her discretion.

Ummm...isn't that what I wrote? As long as the aggressor is not a in a position of authority by the actor.

So, I fail to see how any judge can say that my 16 year old neighbor I banged is being exploited by me if I have absolutely no authority or influence of her decisions to consent to sex.

In other words, her having sex with me does not prevent or cause her from getting fired, losing her life, or getting a promotion be it school or work.

Not sure what is unclear here, but its crystal clear to me.

Mixx