I haven't posted much here. I am one of the more senior citizens in the Forum (43yo). After three years my divorce is finally over and I can get on with rebuilding my life.
I have enjoyed reading (and learned a lot) from many of the posts here and some of the other manosphere sites. Below is a copy of an email that I sent to my friend's brother in law who was finishing college a few years ago.
In the spirit of brotherhood I want to share it with the other members.
Jacob,
Mark told me that you would be getting in touch. Congratulations on your desire to pursue a career in the fire service. It can be very rewarding.
Mark didn't tell me what your degree is but having one helps as far as the hiring and selection process goes. Most depatments require a minimum of 2 years of college education.
When I was taking tests for various departments the steps involved were usually very similar.
1. Application pick up. Oftentimes there is a nominal fee ($20) for the application which you will most likely pick up from Human Resources at city hall. It is a good idea to photocopy the first application you fill out. They can be 20+ pp long. They will want to know everywhere you have ever lived, credit history, academic record, stamped transcripts*,arrest record if applicable, etc. Pulling all of this info together is a pain, so do yourself a favor and photocopy it to keep it handy for the other apps.
(If they ask for transcripts find out if they require them to be certified/sealed or not).
2. Orientation. Often on a Friday or Saturday night. This is where they tell you a little bit about the township or village, the history of their department, etc. They schedule it on the weekend so that only people who are serious will show up. They will most likely have you sign in. There is often a Q & A session afterward. You want to know if they are hiring or just putting a list together.
3. Practice Written. Again on a Saturday. You go in and take a sample test. It will not be identical to the test but until you take enough of these things the practice is definitely good. Plus, one of the instructors or proctors may later be on the panel of your oral interview. Take the time to ask a few questions afterward. A lot of people are going to want to hurry up and get out of there to enjoy their weekend, if you stick around and ask good questions people will remember you.
4. Written Test. Usually given the week after the practice session. It is a timed affair like the ACT and SAT but nowhere near as difficult. There are many places online that you can purchase practice test books and the like. Before you spend a lot of money check the local library. Often they will have police or civil service practice test books. The ideas are the same behind them. I purchased a CD/DVD set when I was prepping for my Captain's exam. Much of it is more applicable to the initial hiring phase. If you want them I will loan them to you.
5. Candidate Physical Agility Test (CPAT) A lot of departments used to fly by the seat of their pants when drawing up a physical. Ours consisted of climbing to the top of a 135' aerial ladder and then 10 more stations,e.g., climb up and down a 28' ladder three times in gear wearing a hose pack; taking a 16' roof ladder off the side of an engine and replacing it; the Kaiser sled, you straddle a weight on a rail and move it a prescribed distance by striking it with a sledgehammer; dragging Rescue Randy (a mannequin) a prescribed distance; those dummies come in two weights...light and very heavy; opening a hydrant, etc.
Now most departments have the same evolutions that are performed in the same sequence. The whole event is timed but it is very generous to allow for women to compete with men. Gender norming. Not very PC but, oh well.
*Update- Most towns now test as part of a consortium to save money. That means you take and pass the CPAT and that certification will be good for all member departments. However, the card is only good for twelve months and you have to pay $100.
6. First Oral Interview If you successfully pass the written and the CPAT you will be invited in for an oral interview. The panel will most likely consist of three interviewers; a blue shirt (firefighter who isn't an officer), a Lt. or Captain(Line Company Officers) and a Battalion Chief or Shift Chief(Staff Officers). The questions are similar to most job interview questions, i.e., tell us about yourself, why do you want to be a firefighter, etc.
7. Second Oral Interview. Depending on how you did you will be invited back for a second interview. You may have some of the same interviewers or different ones. The questions may be more pointed and situational, e.g., what would you do if you saw a firefighter steal something from a scene, what would you do if you heard another firefighter make a racial or sexual comment, etc.
8. Psychological Evaluation. They want to make sure you are not nuts or suicidal. There is a guy that operates out of the Merc building downtown and a guy out in the western suburbs (can't remember which one) that handle the psych portion of the test for most departments around here. They will hook you up to a lie detector a' la "Meet the Parents" and also have you answer a battery of questions on a computer. When you are done they will conduct a face to face interview.
9. Drug Test. Whiz quiz as we affectionately call it. Nothing more to say about it other than you better test negative for everything.
10. Third Interview. If you are invited back for a third interview chances are very good you have made it. This interview often consists of someone from HR, the fire department, city hall, etc. More tell us about yourself questions and anything that may have come up in the psych eval or drug test.
Take everything I say with a grain of salt. It is ten years since I have been through the process. Some towns may do the physical before the written and I know of one village that conducted the psych before the written or physical
Other Random Thoughts...
Read everything you are given. Read the instructions before you fill anything out. Show up on time for your oral interview. I have served on these panels and it has always amazed me that people would show up late for a chance at a position that other people would kill for.
Even though you are not applying for a job with a Fortune 500 company wear a suit. We added or subtracted points for candidates based on whether or not they were wearing a tie.
Another aside about the oral interviews. We aren't really listening to your answers. We have a check off sheet that we are following as you talk and we are listening for certain buzz words. The more of those checks you get on your sheet the better you score.
Remember how I told you to stay after the written tests and ask questions? This is when it helps. I've had guys I remembered either from proctoring the written or timing the physical. If we are on the fence about giving you the point or not the interest you showed earlier can help you here.
Sometimes there is a practice session before the CPAT. Like the written practice session, show up for it even if it is at 7:00AM on a Saturday morning. You'd be amazed at the number of people that think they don't need to do this. Simply going through the test once on a dry run will help alleviate some of the nervousness candidates feel.
Finding out about towns testing... I checked the help wanted ads in Pioneer Press. There was an online company called RedLine that offered a monthly list of all towns testing in certain geographic regions (BlueLine was for the cops). I am not sure if they are still in business or not.
*Update check out http://www.firehire.com. There is another site too, but the name escapes me. Google it.
Go to Firehouse.com and sign up. I don't know if it is free or not; we have departmental access. If it isn't it is a minimal investment in your job search. I know that they have a lot of archived articles about getting hired, oral interviews, etc.
Now for the good news/ bad news portion.
Good News: There was a hiring wave in the forties following the Second World War. Those guys retired in the seventies and there was another massive wave of hiring. The third wave of hires/retirees is cresting right now. There has been an increase in the number of retirees/ new hires every year since I have been hired. We have a dozen guys with 30+ years and another 20+ with 20 years or more. Keep in mind we are a medium sized department: about 120 sworn firefighters.
*This email is from 4 years ago. We have hired probably twenty guys since then. There will still be more hires in the next few years but the bulk of the hiring is over for us. We may see another 10-15 guys go in the next five years. Definitely if changes are made to the pension laws.
Another plus, you have a bachelors degree from the U of I.
Bad News:
1. The economy is in the toilet. A lot of guys who would have retired are sticking around to have their insurance paid for.
2. You are not a female or a minority.
3. You are a white male who did not serve in the military, right? The State of Illinois grants service points to people who have served in the military. Those points can only be used once, i.e., either when you get hired or when you are taking a promotional exam. If there is only .003 separating you from someone else and he has military points you are S.O.L. Off the top of my head I can think of six hires in the last few years who were in the military.
4. Because the economy is in such a sad state there are a lot more applicants who have college degrees.
5. We are getting more lateral transfers, i.e., a firefighter who worked for another department and is a paramedic has taken our test and gotten hired.
6. There are a lot of guys on the job who's sons, brothers, in-laws, etc are trying to get on the job. Officially nepotism is not allowed but one of my good friends who I got hired with... his dad was my paramedic preceptor. One of the Shift Chiefs... his brother is a Captain. Another Shift Chief's son was hired a few years ago. Two old timers who are brothers...one retired last year and chances are his brother will retire this year or next.
Recommendations:
1. The Office of the State Fire Marshall (OSFM) runs an training facility in Champaign. I have taken numerous classes at Illinois Fire Science Institue (IFSI). The website is http://www.fsi.illinois.edu. It is over on Gerty Blvd. Head over there and pick the brains of the instructors and staff.
If you know someone or can make a contact over there they may let you sit in or participate in some evolutions on the training site. You may even be able to take a class for credit. One of our guys is an assistant instructor down there. I will give him a call and see if he has any recommendations of people you can talk to.
2. If you have the money and the inclination go to paramedic school. It costs departments over 10K to send someone to paramedic school. They pay for the probationary firefighter's tuition, they pay overtime to someone to cover his shift while he is in class and they pay him overtime when he has class, clinicals or ER time on his day off.
*More towns are requiring people to be a medic before they can even test.
When I went through paramedic school it was six months long: class was two nights a week for four hours apiece and one day of clinic or ER time a week for four hours. I think St. Francis' paramedic class tuition is between $2,000 and $3,000. If you go to work for MedEx, AMR or Superior (private ambulance companies) they will pay for your medic school tuition but you have to work for them for a certain period of time (two years is normal). The pay isn't that great but you get your tuition paid for and you get a little bit of pocket money.
Check and see if any of the areas surrounding Champaign are volunteer departments or paid-on-call (P.O.C.). In the Chicagoland area I know that Palatine is POC and so is LaGrange and I think Northbrook/Northfield(?). Oftentimes you can get experience with these departments, a small paycheck, as well as getting some classes paid for. I have accumulated a lot of merit badges in the last ten years and am glad I have not had to pay for all of these classes out of pocket.
That is all I can think of for now.
If you want to do a ride along when you are home or have any other questions feel free to call my cell at xxx-xxx-xxxx
I have enjoyed reading (and learned a lot) from many of the posts here and some of the other manosphere sites. Below is a copy of an email that I sent to my friend's brother in law who was finishing college a few years ago.
In the spirit of brotherhood I want to share it with the other members.
Jacob,
Mark told me that you would be getting in touch. Congratulations on your desire to pursue a career in the fire service. It can be very rewarding.
Mark didn't tell me what your degree is but having one helps as far as the hiring and selection process goes. Most depatments require a minimum of 2 years of college education.
When I was taking tests for various departments the steps involved were usually very similar.
1. Application pick up. Oftentimes there is a nominal fee ($20) for the application which you will most likely pick up from Human Resources at city hall. It is a good idea to photocopy the first application you fill out. They can be 20+ pp long. They will want to know everywhere you have ever lived, credit history, academic record, stamped transcripts*,arrest record if applicable, etc. Pulling all of this info together is a pain, so do yourself a favor and photocopy it to keep it handy for the other apps.
(If they ask for transcripts find out if they require them to be certified/sealed or not).
2. Orientation. Often on a Friday or Saturday night. This is where they tell you a little bit about the township or village, the history of their department, etc. They schedule it on the weekend so that only people who are serious will show up. They will most likely have you sign in. There is often a Q & A session afterward. You want to know if they are hiring or just putting a list together.
3. Practice Written. Again on a Saturday. You go in and take a sample test. It will not be identical to the test but until you take enough of these things the practice is definitely good. Plus, one of the instructors or proctors may later be on the panel of your oral interview. Take the time to ask a few questions afterward. A lot of people are going to want to hurry up and get out of there to enjoy their weekend, if you stick around and ask good questions people will remember you.
4. Written Test. Usually given the week after the practice session. It is a timed affair like the ACT and SAT but nowhere near as difficult. There are many places online that you can purchase practice test books and the like. Before you spend a lot of money check the local library. Often they will have police or civil service practice test books. The ideas are the same behind them. I purchased a CD/DVD set when I was prepping for my Captain's exam. Much of it is more applicable to the initial hiring phase. If you want them I will loan them to you.
5. Candidate Physical Agility Test (CPAT) A lot of departments used to fly by the seat of their pants when drawing up a physical. Ours consisted of climbing to the top of a 135' aerial ladder and then 10 more stations,e.g., climb up and down a 28' ladder three times in gear wearing a hose pack; taking a 16' roof ladder off the side of an engine and replacing it; the Kaiser sled, you straddle a weight on a rail and move it a prescribed distance by striking it with a sledgehammer; dragging Rescue Randy (a mannequin) a prescribed distance; those dummies come in two weights...light and very heavy; opening a hydrant, etc.
Now most departments have the same evolutions that are performed in the same sequence. The whole event is timed but it is very generous to allow for women to compete with men. Gender norming. Not very PC but, oh well.
*Update- Most towns now test as part of a consortium to save money. That means you take and pass the CPAT and that certification will be good for all member departments. However, the card is only good for twelve months and you have to pay $100.
6. First Oral Interview If you successfully pass the written and the CPAT you will be invited in for an oral interview. The panel will most likely consist of three interviewers; a blue shirt (firefighter who isn't an officer), a Lt. or Captain(Line Company Officers) and a Battalion Chief or Shift Chief(Staff Officers). The questions are similar to most job interview questions, i.e., tell us about yourself, why do you want to be a firefighter, etc.
7. Second Oral Interview. Depending on how you did you will be invited back for a second interview. You may have some of the same interviewers or different ones. The questions may be more pointed and situational, e.g., what would you do if you saw a firefighter steal something from a scene, what would you do if you heard another firefighter make a racial or sexual comment, etc.
8. Psychological Evaluation. They want to make sure you are not nuts or suicidal. There is a guy that operates out of the Merc building downtown and a guy out in the western suburbs (can't remember which one) that handle the psych portion of the test for most departments around here. They will hook you up to a lie detector a' la "Meet the Parents" and also have you answer a battery of questions on a computer. When you are done they will conduct a face to face interview.
9. Drug Test. Whiz quiz as we affectionately call it. Nothing more to say about it other than you better test negative for everything.
10. Third Interview. If you are invited back for a third interview chances are very good you have made it. This interview often consists of someone from HR, the fire department, city hall, etc. More tell us about yourself questions and anything that may have come up in the psych eval or drug test.
Take everything I say with a grain of salt. It is ten years since I have been through the process. Some towns may do the physical before the written and I know of one village that conducted the psych before the written or physical
Other Random Thoughts...
Read everything you are given. Read the instructions before you fill anything out. Show up on time for your oral interview. I have served on these panels and it has always amazed me that people would show up late for a chance at a position that other people would kill for.
Even though you are not applying for a job with a Fortune 500 company wear a suit. We added or subtracted points for candidates based on whether or not they were wearing a tie.
Another aside about the oral interviews. We aren't really listening to your answers. We have a check off sheet that we are following as you talk and we are listening for certain buzz words. The more of those checks you get on your sheet the better you score.
Remember how I told you to stay after the written tests and ask questions? This is when it helps. I've had guys I remembered either from proctoring the written or timing the physical. If we are on the fence about giving you the point or not the interest you showed earlier can help you here.
Sometimes there is a practice session before the CPAT. Like the written practice session, show up for it even if it is at 7:00AM on a Saturday morning. You'd be amazed at the number of people that think they don't need to do this. Simply going through the test once on a dry run will help alleviate some of the nervousness candidates feel.
Finding out about towns testing... I checked the help wanted ads in Pioneer Press. There was an online company called RedLine that offered a monthly list of all towns testing in certain geographic regions (BlueLine was for the cops). I am not sure if they are still in business or not.
*Update check out http://www.firehire.com. There is another site too, but the name escapes me. Google it.
Go to Firehouse.com and sign up. I don't know if it is free or not; we have departmental access. If it isn't it is a minimal investment in your job search. I know that they have a lot of archived articles about getting hired, oral interviews, etc.
Now for the good news/ bad news portion.
Good News: There was a hiring wave in the forties following the Second World War. Those guys retired in the seventies and there was another massive wave of hiring. The third wave of hires/retirees is cresting right now. There has been an increase in the number of retirees/ new hires every year since I have been hired. We have a dozen guys with 30+ years and another 20+ with 20 years or more. Keep in mind we are a medium sized department: about 120 sworn firefighters.
*This email is from 4 years ago. We have hired probably twenty guys since then. There will still be more hires in the next few years but the bulk of the hiring is over for us. We may see another 10-15 guys go in the next five years. Definitely if changes are made to the pension laws.
Another plus, you have a bachelors degree from the U of I.
Bad News:
1. The economy is in the toilet. A lot of guys who would have retired are sticking around to have their insurance paid for.
2. You are not a female or a minority.
3. You are a white male who did not serve in the military, right? The State of Illinois grants service points to people who have served in the military. Those points can only be used once, i.e., either when you get hired or when you are taking a promotional exam. If there is only .003 separating you from someone else and he has military points you are S.O.L. Off the top of my head I can think of six hires in the last few years who were in the military.
4. Because the economy is in such a sad state there are a lot more applicants who have college degrees.
5. We are getting more lateral transfers, i.e., a firefighter who worked for another department and is a paramedic has taken our test and gotten hired.
6. There are a lot of guys on the job who's sons, brothers, in-laws, etc are trying to get on the job. Officially nepotism is not allowed but one of my good friends who I got hired with... his dad was my paramedic preceptor. One of the Shift Chiefs... his brother is a Captain. Another Shift Chief's son was hired a few years ago. Two old timers who are brothers...one retired last year and chances are his brother will retire this year or next.
Recommendations:
1. The Office of the State Fire Marshall (OSFM) runs an training facility in Champaign. I have taken numerous classes at Illinois Fire Science Institue (IFSI). The website is http://www.fsi.illinois.edu. It is over on Gerty Blvd. Head over there and pick the brains of the instructors and staff.
If you know someone or can make a contact over there they may let you sit in or participate in some evolutions on the training site. You may even be able to take a class for credit. One of our guys is an assistant instructor down there. I will give him a call and see if he has any recommendations of people you can talk to.
2. If you have the money and the inclination go to paramedic school. It costs departments over 10K to send someone to paramedic school. They pay for the probationary firefighter's tuition, they pay overtime to someone to cover his shift while he is in class and they pay him overtime when he has class, clinicals or ER time on his day off.
*More towns are requiring people to be a medic before they can even test.
When I went through paramedic school it was six months long: class was two nights a week for four hours apiece and one day of clinic or ER time a week for four hours. I think St. Francis' paramedic class tuition is between $2,000 and $3,000. If you go to work for MedEx, AMR or Superior (private ambulance companies) they will pay for your medic school tuition but you have to work for them for a certain period of time (two years is normal). The pay isn't that great but you get your tuition paid for and you get a little bit of pocket money.
Check and see if any of the areas surrounding Champaign are volunteer departments or paid-on-call (P.O.C.). In the Chicagoland area I know that Palatine is POC and so is LaGrange and I think Northbrook/Northfield(?). Oftentimes you can get experience with these departments, a small paycheck, as well as getting some classes paid for. I have accumulated a lot of merit badges in the last ten years and am glad I have not had to pay for all of these classes out of pocket.
That is all I can think of for now.
If you want to do a ride along when you are home or have any other questions feel free to call my cell at xxx-xxx-xxxx