[hydrogonian]

Quote:

Ok,I see your point and agree about not asking questions,but when it comes to invite to a first date,How would you do it?
I thought that "How r you doing,do you want to go out later in the week" was ok.

I feel that my logic ESPECIALLY applies to text game. First, I am NOT a fan of kicking game via texting. Other guys might be, and they might be more authoritative on this subject. The only success that I have ever had, cold gaming from text alone, is when I was very direct.

All of the body language, tone of voice, visual attraction, and in-person humor to relax her is 100% MISSING from text game. The only thing you have to emotionally convince her (remember, women have very little emotional memory - you generally have to renew the charm each time) is cold hard text on a cold hard screen. Its very, very easy for her to reject that or no longer feel the emotional connection that you before shared, especially if you hadn't locked it down as well as you thought you had the first time. So, trying to lock down a date via text is very risky, imo. No matter how you approach it.

So, lets agree that texting is not ideal. And you got rejected with your technique. Hell, you didn't even get a response. Im not saying that my technique will get her to show up, but I think that if she before wanted a date then she'll show, and if she was luke warm about you before then it might intrigue her.

I would've said something like:

"Meet me for drinks at XYZ on saturday".
or
"I'm going to be having drinks at xyz on Saturday, and I want you to meet me."


Then, if she says ok, you can firm up her resolution to do so by saying something like "Promise?" for a sales technique type of close. But you got the agreement through a command first.

She can still reject you, but its psychologically harder for a female to do that because its a command and the phrasing is a little more attractive. You just want to give her that sleight tingle in her vagina. Thats what its all about. That vagina tingle. Questions will never give women that tingle. She will reject you if she wants, but at least you are being a leader and she won't reject you solely because the phrasing is weak (if she is somewhat unclear about your masculinity / attractiveness at this point).

Also, guys have to use the search function more. This has all been written about before in great detail.

[Roosh]

Alright what you did wrong hit me on the walk to the grocery store.

For a first date you asked her out on a SATURDAY night. Big, needy mistake. First dates should be on the weekday unless you've already fucked.

Would a girl go cold on you after you ask for a saturday night first date without having at least kissed her? Yes, yes she would. Combined with asking for FB, you give her no doubt about your obsession over her. She let you make one mistake, but not two.

H: I find the "meet me on saturday night at 9pm" is actually more needy because it can be construed as you're scared she'll say no, are desperate to see her at that time, and that you're forcing it. Unless you're meeting was you leading all the way, it will be incongruent. If you did a good job building attraction, asking for the date is a technique I believe will lead to more dates for the average guy.

I will say it's slightly aggravating when someone disagrees with something that has worked for hundreds of guys, but I understand other methods can work too.

[HD668B]

"how are you" by itself just sounds terribly needy and boring

[Roosh]

(05-11-2011 03:41 PM)LÉtranger Wrote:  

"how are you" by itself just sounds terribly needy and boring

But it works great.

If you're going to bash something then you better say what you do that is so much better.

[gringochileno]

(05-11-2011 03:31 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Alright what you did wrong hit me on the walk to the grocery store.

For a first date you asked her out on a SATURDAY night. Big, needy mistake. First dates should be on the weekday unless you've already fucked.

Would a girl go cold on you after you ask for a saturday night first date without having at least kissed her? Yes, yes she would. Combined with asking for FB, you give her no doubt about your obsession over her. She let you make one mistake, but not two.

H: I find the "meet me on saturday night at 9pm" is actually more needy because it can be construed as you're scared she'll say no, are desperate to see her at that time, and that you're forcing it. Unless you're meeting was you leading all the way, it will be incongruent. If you did a good job building attraction, asking for the date is a technique I believe will lead to more dates for the average guy.

I will say it's slightly aggravating when someone disagrees with something that has worked for hundreds of guys, but I understand other methods can work too.

What if the girl asks to meet you on a weekend night? Is it better to keep pushing for weekdays or is it OK to agree to that because she's coming to you and offering up one of her weekend nights?

[hydrogonian]

Quote:

I will say it's slightly aggravating when someone disagrees with something that has worked for hundreds of guys, but I understand other methods can work too.

Hey, I don't mean to aggravate you... I was just offering my perspective on what has worked for me. I really have no idea what has worked for hundreds of guys...only me.

I think that we could both use subtleties in language and perspective to prove that the other technique is more needy. I could say that the average guy doesn't build attraction enough, especially to ask a girl out with a question via texting. Also, its clear that most guys might not get the body language and attraction building that Ive used to the point when I give such a command... Usually I'm looking into her eyes and speaking very slowly.

In the end, I really don't care what this guy does in the future... and I don't want to frustrate anyone if they disagree with me.

[Roosh]

No worries. Just it helps to understand I teach a one-size-fits-all game that while basic and sometimes generic, is effective out of the box for Joe or Juan off the street. So when it's criticized for a more specific style that works for one guy, without having been tested on a large sample size, I throw my hands up in the air.

But carry on... sharing of other methods is important. He must determine what can work best for him. I'll just continue defending my tactics.

[Roosh]

GC: If she asks or suggests a weekend night, but all means go for it. But you shouldn't be bringing it up first with a chick you haven't fuck yet.

[CJ]

(05-11-2011 01:51 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

For those of you that don't text, I really wonder what girls you're meeting that are picking up the phone. Older chicks, sure, but younger ones? Forget it. Texting is simply easier, more effective, and saves you time. Whether it's "weak" or not, it works spectacularly well. Even on foreign chicks.

I was thinking the same thing, this is about effectiveness and what's relevant, not what you "think" is a pussy move.

My brother was on the whole "text game" thing right before it became popular, I'm not saying he's Lewis and Fucking Clark here, but he knows what he's doing. His advice to me was, "(These days) You shouldn't waste time on the phone with a girl, until you've banged her."

The second thing he suggested, was your first text should just say something like, "What's up" Ya, it's short, and again may sound stupid, but it works, so I really don't care if Casanova rises from the grave and says it's a shit line.

For me, this site and studying game in depth is about simplicity. By putting a ton of time into any one girl (not every girl, but enough), I probably could sleep with her eventually. Why the hell would I want to do that though? By taking extra steps to just "look cool" you're only wasting time and thus hurting your return rate, and if you want a combo of quality and quantity you need to have efficiency.

[Princeton]

(05-11-2011 03:53 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

Quote:

I will say it's slightly aggravating when someone disagrees with something that has worked for hundreds of guys, but I understand other methods can work too.

Hey, I don't mean to aggravate you... I was just offering my perspective on what has worked for me. I really have no idea what has worked for hundreds of guys...only me.

I think that we could both use subtleties in language and perspective to prove that the other technique is more needy. I could say that the average guy doesn't build attraction enough, especially to ask a girl out with a question via texting. Also, its clear that most guys might not get the body language and attraction building that Ive used to the point when I give such a command... Usually I'm looking into her eyes and speaking very slowly.

In the end, I really don't care what this guy does in the future... and I don't want to frustrate anyone if they disagree with me.

I have to say that I agree with H in that I'm very wary of asking a girl if she "wants" to do something especially when it's an open-ended invitation. Let's not forget that women often have no idea what they want until it is presented to them. When you say, "Do you want to go out with me?" it gives her an opportunity to turn it over in her mind, "Hmmm, do I REALLY want to go out with this guy?" Unless she's invested hook-line-and-sinker (a difficult task to achieve from one meeting at a club) it's pretty shaky ground and could turn into a "no" or an ignore especially if she has lots of offers from other guys. "Do you want to go out with me?" is not much of a motivator. You'll never hear a salesman asking someone, "Do you want to buy this vacuum cleaner?" It gives people too much of an opportunity to mull it over.

I agree that saying, "Meet me at XYZ on Saturday" is also problematic. I prefer to ask questions that lead the girl to the subconconcious (and indeed logical) conclusion that she wants to go out with you without you even having to ask.

Some examples:
YOU: Do you like wine?
HER: Yes! (every girl does or will lie and say she does)
YOU: Thought so. There's a great wine bar we should check out.

If she says "sounds good" (or some variation) there's your date. You're appealing to her senses (wine), leading by having an idea of what you want to do and telling her you want her to do it with you, DHV by knowing cool spots and painting a better picture in her mind of a fun date (who wouldn't want to go to a "great wine bar?")

Also if her response is anything like, "So when are we doing it?" or some variation it's as though she's asking you out which, in my opinion, makes her invest more than a response to a yes/no question.

I almost never start a sentence by asking a girl, "Do you want." It's not, "Do you want me to come on your tits?" It's, "You want me to come on your tits, don't you..."

[Princeton]

Another thought regarding the "Saturday night" part. Definitely problematic in that you're really conflating two questions. One is whether she wants a date with you. The second is purely logistical: when the date is to occur (Saturday night?) Rolling those two questions into one will cause any logistical issues to muddy her feelings about the first part of the question. If Saturday night is really bad for her / she has another date, etc. it will subconsciously make her feel like you are bothering / inconveniencing her = strike against you.

Establish the date first, then figure out the secretarial part of when/where once she's already commited to it.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

All of the advice here is good but well, you have to accept the fact that sometimes you could play all of this perfectly and she will still bail on the idea. While you wait for a possible re-engagement after several days (you might try calling?), here is something that will make you worry less

Not giving a fuck!

[hydrogonian]

(05-11-2011 04:30 PM)Princeton Wrote:  

I almost never start a sentence by asking a girl, "Do you want." It's not, "Do you want me to come on your tits?" It's, "You want me to come on your tits, don't you..."

I like that. You can turn that into "You want to go out with me, don't you.." as long as you can pull it off in a way that makes her laugh. That would be a nice cocky / funny line to suggest a date...

[Mr.GM]

(05-11-2011 03:31 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Alright what you did wrong hit me on the walk to the grocery store.

For a first date you asked her out on a SATURDAY night. Big, needy mistake. First dates should be on the weekday unless you've already fucked.

Would a girl go cold on you after you ask for a saturday night first date without having at least kissed her? Yes, yes she would. Combined with asking for FB, you give her no doubt about your obsession over her. She let you make one mistake, but not two.

H: I find the "meet me on saturday night at 9pm" is actually more needy because it can be construed as you're scared she'll say no, are desperate to see her at that time, and that you're forcing it. Unless you're meeting was you leading all the way, it will be incongruent. If you did a good job building attraction, asking for the date is a technique I believe will lead to more dates for the average guy.

I will say it's slightly aggravating when someone disagrees with something that has worked for hundreds of guys, but I understand other methods can work too.

(05-11-2011 04:36 PM)Princeton Wrote:  

Another thought regarding the "Saturday night" part. Definitely problematic in that you're really conflating two questions. One is whether she wants a date with you. The second is purely logistical: when the date is to occur (Saturday night?) Rolling those two questions into one will cause any logistical issues to muddy her feelings about the first part of the question. If Saturday night is really bad for her / she has another date, etc. it will subconsciously make her feel like you are bothering / inconveniencing her = strike against you.

Establish the date first, then figure out the secretarial part of when/where once she's already commited to it.

Just to clarify ,I met her at the club on saturday,asked her FB in the same night(1st mistake) and only 2 days later (Tuesday) I sent the text to her asking for a date late in the week(a weekday).I would never ask to set a first date on saturday,I agree that weekdays are better for 1st dates.

For me ,what was unnusual in that girl was the fact the she sounded very excited in the first message(replying to the "how r u question) but in the second question (do you wanna go out later in the week) no reply.I was expecting at list an excuse etc.
But the good thing is that my game will be stronger because I'm a quick learner...and thats what this forum is all about..

[MiXX]

(05-11-2011 03:47 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

(05-11-2011 03:41 PM)LÉtranger Wrote:  

"how are you" by itself just sounds terribly needy and boring

But it works great.

If you're going to bash something then you better say what you do that is so much better.

That's the second time I notice L'Etranger making a comment, and not add any value to the matter.

I ask you what you found so easy about Ukraine girls, when you just commented "It's too easy for me"..and never replied about any details.



WTF?

Mixx

[Tommy]

Omg i read crazy stuff here, just be yourself. I mean, you got game or you don't, don't try too much either

[Mr.GM]

(05-11-2011 05:35 PM)MiXX Wrote:  

(05-11-2011 03:47 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

(05-11-2011 03:41 PM)LÉtranger Wrote:  

"how are you" by itself just sounds terribly needy and boring

But it works great.

If you're going to bash something then you better say what you do that is so much better.

That's the second time I notice L'Etranger making a comment, and not add any value to the matter.

I ask you what you found so easy about Ukraine girls, when you just commented "It's too easy for me"..and never replied about any details.



WTF?

Mixx

I was wondering the same thing.Its funny to see how some guys here are pussies to admit their own flaws and weak points in the game.They keep acting like if they were all "Top Alpha" guys who are banging 9's and 10's everyday with superb game skills.
comments that only bash some technique/strategy without providing an alternative and/or sharing a valid,honest opinion are worthless.
I'm not beginner at this game,but i'm man enough to admit that my game is far from perfect and I share my TRUE experiences to learn with more experienced players and to help others when I can. If you don't have nothing to add get the f* out.

[Nacirema]

(05-11-2011 05:54 PM)Tommy Wrote:  

Omg i read crazy stuff here, just be yourself. I mean, you got game or you don't, don't try too much either

If a fat girl asked me the best way to improve her romantic options, and I was feeling completely honest, would I consider "just be yourself" to be helpful advice?

No.

[Amour Fou]

(05-11-2011 09:11 AM)MiXX Wrote:  

Besides, survey says that women find men with a bottle of water in their hands MORE attractive than ones with beer in their hand.

Really? I feel stupid drinking my water, so I eventually switch to beer, just so I don´t feel dorky when I´m at a club...

never heard of this.

comments?

[CJ]

(05-11-2011 08:46 PM)Nacirema Wrote:  

(05-11-2011 05:54 PM)Tommy Wrote:  

Omg i read crazy stuff here, just be yourself. I mean, you got game or you don't, don't try too much either

If a fat girl asked me the best way to improve her romantic options, and I was feeling completely honest, would I consider "just be yourself" to be helpful advice?

No.

Seriously... that "advice" makes little sense here. And game is something that can be learned, so... maybe Tommy's account got jacked!

(05-11-2011 08:55 PM)Amour Fou Wrote:  

(05-11-2011 09:11 AM)MiXX Wrote:  

Besides, survey says that women find men with a bottle of water in their hands MORE attractive than ones with beer in their hand.

Really? I feel stupid drinking my water, so I eventually switch to beer, just so I don´t feel dorky when I´m at a club...

Ya, I don't buy into that... who are they surveying? I think you've got to be smart to not overdo it and lose focus, but a couple drinks (pending on your tolerance) really shouldn't make a difference one way or another.

[oldnemesis]

(05-11-2011 03:41 PM)LÉtranger Wrote:  

"how are you" by itself just sounds terribly needy and boring

It works here in America. Roosh was on spot on it in Bang. It doesn't really matter WHAT you say when you approach. It matters that you actually said something and attracted her attention. Even if you have nothing to say next.

Myself I've proven the point by approaching like ten chicks in bars with the single word "Czechoslovakia". A questionable approach, agree? It worked surprisingly well.

[Screwston]

Mr. Gm I recommend not texting when you're buzzing or drunk. I've texted some stupid shit because I'm in that zone and lost some hoes over it. I would wait a few days and text her again like its the day after the club.

I decided to only have family on my facebook. Girls don't need to know about that shit

[Gmac]

(05-11-2011 03:48 PM)gringochileno Wrote:  

What if the girl asks to meet you on a weekend night? Is it better to keep pushing for weekdays or is it OK to agree to that because she's coming to you and offering up one of her weekend nights?

This is your golden opportunity. It means her prime spot is free/open for you.

[Gmac]

(05-12-2011 04:07 AM)houston Wrote:  

Mr. Gm I recommend not texting when you're buzzing or drunk. I've texted some stupid shit because I'm in that zone and lost some hoes over it. I would wait a few days and text her again like its the day after the club.

I decided to only have family on my facebook. Girls don't need to know about that shit

I second this. Only a masterful drunk texter should send out messages when you're drinking. Mine tend to get pretty dirty, but hey it works 9/10.

And for the record, "how are you" works great because it's so simple. A lot of guys get crazy with complicated messages and get written off for putting in what appears to be too much effort.

[MiXX]

(05-12-2011 12:35 AM)CJ Wrote:  

(05-11-2011 09:11 AM)MiXX Wrote:  

Besides, survey says that women find men with a bottle of water in their hands MORE attractive than ones with beer in their hand.

Really? I feel stupid drinking my water, so I eventually switch to beer, just so I don´t feel dorky when I´m at a club...

Ya, I don't buy into that... who are they surveying? I think you've got to be smart to not overdo it and lose focus, but a couple drinks (pending on your tolerance) really shouldn't make a difference one way or another.

[/quote]


Well, there is no actual survey per se, I should have written "my experience". You see, throughout the years of sarging women, I've had SEVERAL women tell me that they are open more to a guy approaching them in a club with a bottle of water, vs a bottle of beer/grey goose in his hand.

One incredibly hot blond told me after I approached her that she specifically found me interesting as I am the only guy she's seen in the club (and approached her) with a bottle of water in hand. She hates how guys breath smells like alcohol and usually are tipsy because they are trying to hide their fear of approaching her.

No woman appreciates seeing a guy not in control and cool...ever.

Now, here is a 100% REAL scenario I ran into once:

Target: "what is that in your hand? Is that water? You don't drink?"

Mixx:"Well, on my long flight from Europe a few months ago, I read a medical journal that says alcohol decreases male sexual performance (pause and smile for a few seconds).....and I'd hate to be a disappointment later on"

Notice how I DHV's and escalated the frame to a sexual nature.

A lot of guys drink because they want to "fit in", or not seem like "the only dork" - Fact is, if you were truly alpha, you do what YOU want, not follow what others do. That, forum players, is a major turn-on to women.

If drinking is indeed what you want, then do so..but don't ever give in to what others perceive you should be. You'll be following/copying a herd of idiots......that's beta.

Result: Bang!

Mixx