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Real Talk Sessions: One Man's Thoughts On "Monk Mode"
#1

Real Talk Sessions: One Man's Thoughts On "Monk Mode"

[Image: realtalknew.jpg]

From the roots of Reddit, the concept of Monk Mode has grown into a recurring topic of discussion throughout various parts of the Manosphere/Red Pill Community.

For those who are unfamiliar with the concept, Monk Mode is a period of time in which a man decides to temporarily remove himself from society, for a varied amount of time, to get his life in order and improve his sexual market value (SMV). In the course of going through this period of self-improvement, women become virtually non-existent in his world.

While I agree with the spirit of the concept, I disagree with some of its fundamentals and ultimate execution.

The People In Your Life
Disconnecting from the world at times is not a bad idea. In doing so, it is often imperative that we disconnect from people as well, even family members in some cases. If you find yourself needing to do so, you need to come to terms with the reality that some of these people, people you may even call friends, need to be out of your life for good.

You may not want to hear that, but when you're going through a transition period, one where you expect to be better off at the end than you were at the beginning, there inherently will be some things that need to be left behind. Those things include habits, people, etc. You may not believe this, but in the course of your improvement, some of these "friends" will try to bring you back down, which is why they were one of your friends to begin with. They saw you as equal. Now they see you as better, and that's a problem for them. Women will often engage in this level of subterfuge out of self-preservation.

It is my opinion that when you are in a state of life that you want to be in, one that you feel good about, the people in it should either be in the same place or above you. When you have the right people in your life, you will find yourself getting ahead in life, and taking sabbaticals like "Monk Mode" will not be as necessary, as you won't have relationships that you will need to disconnect from so that you can get your mind right.

If you come out, and think "better you" can co-exist with the same old friends, girfriends, fuck buddies, etc. then you didn't learn anything from Monk Mode.

The Reality of Sexual Market Value
Sexual market value is incredibly important when it comes to picking up women. One of the central ideas behind Monk Mode, is that one stops pursuing women and upgrades his level of attractiveness. He can accomplish that by changing his nutritional habits and implementing a real training program that will completely transform his body. That effort and the successfully obtained results should be applauded. However, there is a flaw within the program.

Before I dive deeper into that flaw, let's rewind for a moment.

It is a fact that most men will meet and have relationships with women through what I call Convenience Game. Convenience game affords men the opportunity to meet women in situations in which their SMV is not immediately assessed, which normally would affect the possibility of him and the woman he desires coming together.

When we meet women through work, school, our neighborhood, social circles, and other akin mediums that are naturally convenient situations and environments, we can depend on that type of game. We can get to know them as we share intrinsic commonalities and they can do the same with us. In doing so, we don't have to immediately communicate to them that we desire them in a sexual/romantic way and in kind they don't have to have to immediately decide whether or not they see us in a sexual/romantic way. We can just be cool. However, in the process of "just being cool" we don't allow ourselves to neither be viewed nor defined as "just a friend".

What those of us from this community do should be applauded.

When we go out into the world, see someone we're interested in, and initiate a conversation with them, we are giving them an opportunity to change their lives and their views of the world. The lives that most women lead are incredibly closed-off, thus their view of the world is incredibly limited. Most of the men they will have dealt with are men who used proximity, or convenience game, to strike up a relationship with her. They also will tend to share certain commonalities with her, which narrows her horizons as she continues to deal with and experience that which is already familiar to her.

Thus, in our cases, sexual market value is incredibly important because when you approach a woman in public as a complete stranger and communicate to her that you would like to see if she can potentially become a part of your world in a sexual/romantic way, of course she is going to assess how attracted she is to you. Without convenience game, she has no idea how great of a guy you are because she doesn't know you and hasn't had the time to find that out in an organic manner.

To increase your SMV, that is to say, to make yourself attractive to a higher number and wider variety of women, you do need to have some combination of attractive physical features, above average presentation (good style, personal hygiene, etc.), and an ability to communicate in an interesting, enticing, and non-threatening manner.

The last part of that equation is where "Monk Mode" misses the mark.

Men who are good at picking up women get there because they put themselves in social situations with them all the time. If you were to go into an extended period of isolation to get ripped and upgrade your fashion sense, that's great, but you're not going to immediately walk into a club or coffee shop and talk to a girl like a seasoned player. You will be rusty and awkward, simply because you haven't been doing it. With an increased SMV, it's more likely than not that if a girl is physically attracted to you, you will have more room for error, but I disagree with the thought process that ducking out of society, disconnecting with women in the process, and doing work in "Monk Mode" means that when you come out of the mode, you'll be a beast with women.

You won't, there will still be work to do.

Players Do What Women Do
When players want to take a break from the game, they have just one chick in their life. This chick is often someone who's known as a Bottom Bitch. A bottom bitch is not an exclusive girlfriend, but she's not a jump-off either. She's some sort of mixture of the two. She's the main chick when there isn't a main chick, and she's more regarded than a jump-off because she's someone who you have enough of a connection with who is willing to be there when you need her. So while you need to get work done, disconnect from the game, etc. you still have a girl in your life who you can count on to meet your needs.

When the player is ready to get back into the game, he re-drafts the team, but doesn't cut the Bottom Bitch.

Women behave in a similar manner, although their mode is not what we call Monk Mode, it's called Cuffing Season, and it has nothing to do with self-improvement. Cuffing season occurs during the fall and winter when the weather is bad outside so women don't go out as much. Shortly prior to this time, women make a concerted effort to find a guy who they will they date to occupy their off-time and ensure they're not alone for the holidays. When the spring rolls around in full force, the guy gets dumped, and she goes back out into the field.

Players choose to handle their period of isolation in the same manner that women do, in that they find someone they can have in their life in the way they want to that fits their ultimate goals, without the terms of being completely alone.

If you don't have a bottom bitch in your life, there's nothing stopping you from hitting happy hour once a week or bi-weekly just to have interaction with women. In my opinion, it would be a better idea to maybe get involved socially with something that is of interest to you, and then using that to continue to communicate and interact with women in a more organic manner. Meetup groups are great for this kind of interaction.

Most things in life often happen when we're just living life, with no particular endgame in mine, so while you may not plan on picking up women in your salsa class, nor should you go into it with that goal, you just might end up meeting a girl who is interested in sharing more in your life than just dancing.

Pour Conclure
It is my opinion that there does a come a time when a man shouldn't really be in the game. Reaching this point either means he's not really ready to play due to not really having anything to offer, i.e. he's a non-player, or he just got out of a long-term relationship and he needs time to assess where he is in life as an individual and devise a plan of action to move forward. Whether we like it or not, even if we have women who provide something to us, they also take away things from us. Sometimes we need to be selfish and not allow them to have any part of us.

Monk Mode can be good for that period of time, but it shouldn't be used for avoidance reasons nor should it be done solely for the purpose of obtaining women. Anything that you do in life should first and foremost be done for yourself, if it happens to benefit others, that is an added-plus, but your motivation should come from within, not from someone who is completely external. Never taken women so seriously that you feel you need to take a step back so you can come back stronger just for procuring them.

Gaming women is just one game in an entire season of life. When we are winning in life, we often find that it is much easier to win with women.
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#2

Real Talk Sessions: One Man's Thoughts On "Monk Mode"

Fantastic post per usual, jariel. Please keep 'em coming.

"Monk Mode", to me, seems most beneficial not when self-imposed, but as a way to make the best out of an unfortunate (and hopefully temporary) situation.

For example, I quit my job a few months back to pursue an entrepreneurial venture in a different city. I've found a great apartment right in the center of town, but unfortunately the lease doesn't start until May, and my old apartment's lease ended in January. Until then, I'm saving money by living with my parents out in the country-literally living in my mom's basement.

The talent here is next to nothing, and my logistics are awful. The amount of effort it would take just to bag the occasional 6 is ten times what it will be once I move in three months.

My marginal utility on an hour spent working on my business, going to the gym, or learning guitar is much higher than an hour spent on gaming women here, so I figure I'll focus on myself now, and then resume my focus on game once I've moved to the city in May. Once my circumstances and logistics change, my marginal utility for gaming chicks will change as well, and I'll adjust accordingly. I'll still approach a hot girl if I see one while I'm out and about, but I won't be blocking off entire afternoons for day game like I might in a major city.

I could see similar situations for guys in the oil fields, or who work a month-on/month-off type of schedule, or who suffer a debilitating injury of some sort. This sort of monk mode isn't necessarily something one seeks out, but as a way of making lemonade from life's inevitable lemons.
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#3

Real Talk Sessions: One Man's Thoughts On "Monk Mode"

I'm in a monk mode myself right now. Deleted all my online dating accounts. It is nice not to have to think about when I am going to text a new chick. Deal with flakes and so on.

I can concentrate on me and my friends.

It feels like being a kid on summer break. No fucking homework or teachers can just focus on being a kid, or in this case now an adult male.

Starting to feel too much like a job takes the love out of it.

SENS Foundation - help stop age-related diseases

Quote: (05-19-2016 12:01 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  
If I talk to 100 19 year old girls, at least one of them is getting fucked!
Quote:WestIndianArchie Wrote:
Am I reacting to her? No pussy, all problems
Or
Is she reacting to me? All pussy, no problems
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#4

Real Talk Sessions: One Man's Thoughts On "Monk Mode"

Monk mode is really more for betas .....as it's a form of mgow

alphas don't need monk mode. No effort is put into chicks by them as is. They are just an afterthought.

For others though who's smv is so low they are invisible to where game doesn't even matter, I can't think of anything worse than cold approaching girls and wasting away getting rejected by women. And worse yet, spending part time job hours doing so.

I think low smv males can do online game in conjunction with monk mode if they can find an efficient site that identify's timewaistes on the first message. Online is much much more time efficient than cold approach.

Monk mode should be the new optimal dating philosophy in modern times. And I think it's a long term strategy. Not short term. Monk mode is a way of living.

Monk mode is the only way to increase SMV and the only hope for the betas.

The sad part is too truly change SMV for low value male we aren't just talking about a job promotion or lifting weights. The beta has to make substantial money/status changes to climb the ladder.
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#5

Real Talk Sessions: One Man's Thoughts On "Monk Mode"

Monk mode also misses the point that game is more about mindset - as Rollo always says, alpha is a mind-set not a demographic. You can't just lift the weights, work the job, and get the girls - if only it was that simple. The shift in mind-set comes from real results / experience in the field, not from achieving some arbitrary goals you made up.

Also, the game gives instant feed-back on what you might need to do to improve - like if you're going out all the time and you see that the men getting the girls dress a certain way, then you fix it and come back at it, and you can see if you're on the right track by your results.

I'm also sure that they could spare a couple of evenings a week to go out - slow and steady is the way to achieve most things surely, not a few months of isolation.
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#6

Real Talk Sessions: One Man's Thoughts On "Monk Mode"

Quote: (02-17-2015 12:36 PM)Kieran Wrote:  

Monk mode also misses the point that game is more about mindset - as Rollo always says, alpha is a mind-set not a demographic. You can't just lift the weights, work the job, and get the girls - if only it was that simple. The shift in mind-set comes from real results / experience in the field, not from achieving some arbitrary goals you made up.

Also, the game gives instant feed-back on what you might need to do to improve - like if you're going out all the time and you see that the men getting the girls dress a certain way, then you fix it and come back at it, and you can see if you're on the right track by your results.

I'm also sure that they could spare a couple of evenings a week to go out - slow and steady is the way to achieve most things surely, not a few months of isolation.


Exactly. Monk mode is a long term mindset lifestyle that is long term.

Let's look at this from a beta standpoint ......how possible/likely is it for a low smv man to reach the top 20 percent ? It's darn near impossible. We are talking people the likes of Zuckerberger and Bill Gates to have rose enough to transcend into alpha territory from beta.

The best thing betas can do is enter monk mode with understanding it may never work......or be 20 years or more down the road until their smv is high enough to attain any kind of options and any kind of options higher than a 7.

But what does the beta do to get laid during that x amount of years it takes to raise their value ?

Going out on the weekends to game ? Well that is not going to help a low smv male because to actually get proficient enough at game for it to matter when you are a male of average attractiveness means you are going to have to make it a full time job hours. Like 4 nights a week gaming at least. And that's incompatiable with monk mode and common sense.

online dating ? A low smv male can send off 100 messages on pof and get some replies that lead nowhere and just waste time. Their best bet is trying a pay site and get a system that filters timewaisters.

The betas are truly screwed.

And even monk mode might never get the betas high enough to be in the top 20 percent.

IMO, betas should not exit the dating market completely during monk mode. I just think they should employ a super super low investment efficient strategy of mining prospects in conjunction with monk mode in the meantime. Just a way to get a fatty or something to bang or if your lucky an occasional decent chick to game.
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#7

Real Talk Sessions: One Man's Thoughts On "Monk Mode"

I've never read much into monk mode. It sounds nerdy as fuck honestly but this is a great post nonetheless.

Jariel really hit the mark here:

Quote:Quote:

When players want to take a break from the game, they have just one chick in their life.

This is exactly what I have been doing for a while now. I actually made the choice to take a break from the game when I was in the middle of a hot streak in order to focus on more important things.

In the last couple of months I finally learned how to make some decent cash online. I have also lost about 10lbs of fat and gained a few pounds of muscle. You can tell in my face that I am leaner, but I have also set new PRs on the bench press. On top of all that I have saved a bunch of money because I've only been out to the bars a handful of times. I have also gained a lot of time because I am never hungover.

Not to mention that I am still getting as much sex as I want from a hot 19 year-old blonde. She keeps my game from getting rusty. My approach game might have gotten a little stiff, but other than that everything is intact.

I am not in monk mode, nor am I trying to improve my SMV. Everything that I am doing is for me. I am just a man who has shifted his focus.
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#8

Real Talk Sessions: One Man's Thoughts On "Monk Mode"

Quote:Quote:

The lives that most women lead are incredibly closed-off, thus their view of the world is incredibly limited. Most of the men they will have dealt with are men who used proximity, or convenience game, to strike up a relationship with her. They also will tend to share certain commonalities with her, which narrows her horizons as she continues to deal with and experience that which is already familiar to her.

You perfectly worded something that I had in the back of my mind for a while but couldnt translate it to words.

Thank you, great post.
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#9

Real Talk Sessions: One Man's Thoughts On "Monk Mode"

Great post

Agreed, I can't do that player route 24/7

Even my harem of two girls is my max as my work, playing sports, traveling, and overall improvement of knowledge takes up a lot of my time.

A man is only as faithful as his options-Chris Rock
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#10

Real Talk Sessions: One Man's Thoughts On "Monk Mode"

Damn son, I can't believe I missed this Real Talk Session when it dropped.

I too have discussed how monk mode is for beta incels.

But you take a completely different angle...one that is definitely more geared towards "lifestyle." And I 100% agree.

After our knockouts I think it's safe to say "Monk Mode" has no place on RVF.
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#11

Real Talk Sessions: One Man's Thoughts On "Monk Mode"

PS Another thing I realized about this whole "monk mode" shit is that making real changes in your life TAKES LONG AMOUNTS OF TIME.

It's like a diet. If you tell yourself that you'll just "cut" for a few months in order to get the desired body you want, you'll gain that weight back when you stop your "cut." However, if you slowly change your diet and exercise habits into something that you maintain a better bf% year round, you won't have to worry about "cutting." Know what I mean?
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#12

Real Talk Sessions: One Man's Thoughts On "Monk Mode"

I was considering a month of monk mode, because I'm actually moving out of America for a year in a few months, so I want to make sure I have all my shit together before I decide to jump ship for a year. Tie up all my loose ends and all that jazz.

Anyone got any input on that sort of move?

I will be checking my PMs weekly, so you can catch me there. I will not be posting.
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#13

Real Talk Sessions: One Man's Thoughts On "Monk Mode"

Monk mode worked for me, it helped me have time to reflect on myself, figure out issues that I needed to work on, and improve my personal psychology and inner game. Sometimes it can be a good thing for a guy to take a step away from the game, depending on where he's at and what he's going through in his life.

For me during my monk mode phase I pretty much put forth little to no effort to approach or game women, but what I did do was focus on improving myself. Specifically, I got my ass back into the gym and put in serious work, and developed more discipline in my diet, without the distraction of a girl friend, going out to do night game or have a bunch of girls to text or first dates, I was able to get into some of the best shape of my life and lost 15 pounds over the course of 3-4 months.

During this time I read a bunch of books a couple which helped me further take the red pill and advance my game knowledge and understanding. Those books were The Rational Male and the Manipulated Man. Knowledge is power, and I realized that there were many flaws in my mindset.

Monk mode allowed me to take a step back and see how I've been getting oneitis, pedestaling, and projecting my hopes and desires on these women. I was able to develop a deeper sense of non-attachment, and a greater indifference towards women, which has helped my overall vibe, although I'll admit I did have a little backslide with the last girl I laid.

Overall my game has improved, my last notch was one of the hottest girls I've banged a petite 23 year old who's at least a 7.5 arguably an 8 depending on your taste. I've been getting more attention and vibes from hotter and hotter girls, and I've gotten phone numbers, dates, etc. from younger girls than ever in the 18-21 range.

I credit this largely to monk mode, but monk mode should always be a temporary retreat with the purpose of reformulating, growing, and evolving, with the intent of self improvement. Monk mode should not be an excuse to be a lazy hermit that is too scared to take action or improve one's life. Eventually the knowledge, insight, and personal gains you make during this phase needed to be implement and applied and used in your life with your interactions with women and people in general.

I am still very much in the intermediate phase of game with lots of improvements to be made, I often go through periods of failure, followed by success, consistency often eludes me. However, I feel that I am making progress and improving, and part of this I would attribute to periods of monk mode.
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#14

Real Talk Sessions: One Man's Thoughts On "Monk Mode"

I have been doing a bit of 'Monk Mode' for the last 6 months.

I kinda understand now who monks and other ascetics would do it. It is very liberating, keeps your mind free for all kinds of other stuff. I've gotten a lot of work done, but at the same time I do miss female company.

Setup:
Spartan diet, no salt (for a variety of reasons), no drinking (cost), working lots at home (no need for other expenses) no shopping. Working out here and there.

Why I did it:
After coming back from Asia I had to focus on making money again for the biz. Its been hard dealing with the growing pains of a business, handling long days and trying to raise funds, etc etc. I just think its a much better ROI to focus on those things for now than trying to mack on chicks. Simple as that.

Dates, outings:
I've gone the online route to seek company, now and then something catches, but nothing really sticks. But by in large, Im way more focused on amusing myself than whatever is her deal. And that seems enough for now, for the time being seems the right thing to do... plus I am not making all that much cash for dates anyway (and I mean buying my own drinks, fuck buying dinner).

Mental:
Overall I don't care about man and its universe and I don't care that I don't care about pursuing chicks. It's a wonderful liberating experience, the bliss of indifference. It helps that Toronto is full of fat chicks too LOL.

Effects:
More concentration, more creativity. Fatties becoming more and more non-human entities. I am bulletproof and more confident -- the opinions of people and coworkers are absolutely irrelevant.
A lot of work done for sure. I had forgotten how much time taming hamsters can take.
Maybe I am getting old, but the idea of a companion for life is really starting to click... heresy around here, but such is thirst. Doesnt sound as horrible as once I thought. Naturally she will be a fly J-girl, nothing else will do.

Downsize:
I miss the little things besides sex with a lizard. Its weird, next one that lands on my plate is gonna get destroyed and my roommate will complain, but I also miss waking up with them and saying good morning. Maybe there is some humanity left.

tl;dr : Monk mode is useful, can be good for you like sobriety.
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#15

Real Talk Sessions: One Man's Thoughts On "Monk Mode"

Great post with amazing content!

I'm on monk mode nowadays...I'm building my business and the structure of it...

The TRUTH is that once you have found your purpose and want to make it your business, if you want to make some exceptional for yourself you have to obsess about it..."balance" will arrive later on. That's why so few people achieve excellence. It's not just a matter of consistency, focus and repetition...but also a matter of obsession with your purpose..

Also there will be a perpetual battle between INSTANT GRATIFICATION-LACK OF SHORT TERM RESULTS/ FUTURE BENEFITS

Roosh wrote a quality post with a familiar topic.

http://www.rooshv.com/all-experience-is-equal

The thing is that wathever thing you put your focus on...all experience is equal, so get the most of the present moment that you're living at..
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#16

Real Talk Sessions: One Man's Thoughts On "Monk Mode"

I'm glad this was bumped, great work as always jariel. You really hit the nail on the head with monk mode. I can recall when I lost interest in the red pill sub reddit was when monkmode became the main topic of discussion there. I'm sure now they're probably arguing about weather or not kissing a girl counts as a close.

"Does PUA say that I just need to get to f-close base first here and some weird chemicals will be released in her brain to make her a better person?"
-Wonitis
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#17

Real Talk Sessions: One Man's Thoughts On "Monk Mode"

Great post Jariel.

Been in Monk mode myself for a few months without really realizing it. Coasting with the main and "leveling up" in a few ways:

Work - Positioning myself for a promotion that will pay a life-changing salary in the next 6-12 months
Gym & Diet - Losing that excess 5-10 lbs and getting back in shape. [Mostly] eliminating sugar, diet sodas, fatty foods, and limiting alcohol consumption.
Hobbies - Developing a few new ones and getting back into some good old ones, like reading and writing.
Social Life - I started the RVF DC Tribal Meetup last fall. Now a group of about 6-12 guys get together regularly twice a month to discuss life, women, politics, work, and a myriad of other topics relevant to men. We bond, share and grow together. More than just a happy hour.
Pursuit of Happiness - Booked my dream trip to Europe in December and leave this Friday. Eight countries in two weeks. Can't wait. Looking at buying my first piece of real estate in the DC area when I get back so I can finally start building some equity.

Late last year I deleted or made inactive my online dating profiles and the time and energy I've been able to focus towards the rest of my life is refreshing.

Unfortunately I've lost a few old friends over the past few years. Good guys but not on my level - so I know exactly where Jariel was coming from. You are the five closest people you hang out with. For me, that means other successful, focused men - including those even moreso (i.e. my boss).

Whether or not you're a newbie is a moot point. You need some sort of balance in life and it's important to detach from full-time "game mode" every so often. When and if I do get back I won't be quite the same, nor will the commitment. All it takes is discipline, desire, and the willpower and determination to stay focused on your goals and the rest tends to fall in place.

Vice-Captain - #TeamWaitAndSee
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