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First Okay Date in a Long Time
#1

First Okay Date in a Long Time

I've been reading Daybang, but haven't tried a cold approach yet. I have suffered from anxiety for a long time so I am taking it slowly so I don't regress. I have gotten over most of my social anxiety but am still unable to attract women. I get a neurotic, manic energy when I'm anxious.

Anyway, I have been lazy on OKCupid. It seems mostly worthless; I haven't had a date in 6 months, through OKC or otherwise. I tightened up my profile with some game principles such as qualifications, but my pictures still suck, none with groups of friends or in interesting settings. I'm using some ideas from Roosh and Roissy on interesting things to say online, and seem to be getting 'ok' results in that attractive women at least read the messages and check out my profile now instead of just ignoring them. But I have never gotten a response from a woman that didn't like me first. Out of a jaw-droppingly low 11 visitors a week, living only 15 miles outside of NYC, 90% of women that send me likes are 1-3, 8% are 4s, and 2% are 5s. This is out of 10.

Regardless, I am average-looking, the worst thing against me is that I'm pale and have a receding hairline but it seems to work very badly against me in online dating. I am relatively short, 5'8" and fit, but it doesn't show well. I have a great job, but it's in tech so I rarely socialize with women through it. I am rather intelligent, which has always worked against me since I tend to over-analyze and make negative predictions. I have several male friends, all who have had success with attractive women (6-8s), that have either told me that I'm the best looking of the group when I used to bitch about my poor genetic roll of the dice or balk at how low my standards for women are. I don't actually know how good looking I am. I find overweight 5s attractive and would gladly settle down with one.

Last week a woman that I was actually vaguely attracted to sent me a like. This was a surprise since I usually just chuckle whenever I see the neck rolls and bloated faces of the women who usually like me. She was Irish with a round face and short red hair, quite boy-ish looking but she knew how to wear make-up, had a nice sense of style, and was not overweight. I didn't pay much attention to her profile, but just did GALNUC since I was feeling particularly confident and didn't want to waste a lot of an investment in it. I did the standard "Your profile is obviously intriguing" shtick... blah blah and decided to just end with both the "Are you Half German? I ask because..." and "I hope you aren't nervous talking to older men." This routine was straight out of Daybang. It ended up getting a positive response, exactly as described by Roosh. Considering this was a routine that took no forethought I was quite happy.

Two days later, I have her number, as the conversation just flowed naturally from the routine. I text her on a Friday afternoon about meeting up on Saturday. We go for a coffee date on Saturday afternoon.

I show up early with a book and read for a half hour to get myself comfortable in the space. She texts me five minutes before that she's going to show up late, I respond with a terse "Okay," but her reason ends up being a good one. When she arrives she is obviously nervous, she introduces herself, I am relaxed, surprised that I'm relaxed, and surprised at how much time I have to react when I'm relaxed. This feeling is entirely new to me. I am used to being stricken paralyzed by anxiety. She says she is just going to run to the line and get a drink. I sit down and start reading again. I see that the line is actually quite long so I decide to keep her company and we start talking about the area, why she was late, the book, etc. It is all casual small talk, we quite easily build rapport, with coffee shop topics straight out of Daybang. She is somehow both more overweight and more attractive than her profile pictures led me to believe. Face matters. I decide to just run through GALNUC and treat the date as if it was a coffee shop pickup.

I didn't pay for her coffee but she also barely gave me an opportunity to. I hear Roosh and Roissy in the back of my head saying never to buy anything for a woman you aren't sleeping with and at the moment I feel okay with my decision. Though later I second guessed my decision because it was an easy chance at good will.

She tells me about her education and her inability to find a job as a teacher. I am understanding because she actually moved halfway across the country alone to the middle of nowhere for a job instead of collecting unemployment. I am actually impressed even though she moved back home. I lightly screw up by not challenging her enough in her motivations. Instead, I just concede that it sucks and start talking about myself.

I spend too much time talking about how great my job is, and continually try to drop bait about myself, such as where I've traveled, particularly for work. She does not latch onto any of my bait. In hindsight, I realize that my conversation points are repeatedly trying to build value in myself rather than comfort and connection with her, and she may have seen through this.

I don't neg her because I don't think that she's attractive enough to need one and I'm worried that she may be attached to her personal style. I'd have rated her a 5, though she is 25 years old and likely gets a lot of attention from men at her job in NYC. In hindsight, I could have done so about one of her behaviors instead of looks or style and this may have worked positively. I do not compliment her, except late in the date on her scarf because I can open a long conversation about a friendship I have.

We seem to have great rapport but I mistake this for building a connection. Over the course of the date as our rapport is building, I begin to dominate the conversation and take on a manic energy, as I become more emotionally invested in her. She begins talking about how she used to draw, and I steal the conversation about my own drawing hobby. I move to L, then U of GALNUC. She talks for about half a minute about her favorite places in the city, and then I latch onto something she says and steal the conversation again rather than letting her simply speak. I am now the direct opposite of calm and collected, from her POV. I begin what I think is a cute observation about people caffeinating themselves which turns into a one-sided discussion about social norms. I run on the topic for too long, making stupid jokes that may be misconstrued as racist by more uptight people. She breaks eye contact and looks away awkwardly. In order to lighten the mood, I make a self-deprecating joke about how I should never talk about politics, but the damage may already be done. Instead of simply building a connection, I was doing some sort of performance.

We have been talking for about an hour at this point. I think we have plenty of time left but she interrupts me because she has to go to practice a part in a concert she's doing tomorrow. I realize that I completely forgot to ask her anything about music, which would have done wonders to building a connection. We chat about it for half a minute, she gives me a hug and says we'll talk again. I believe her, and walk out actually liking her. The first woman I've genuinely liked in a long time.

The next day I want to send her a text about how we'll grab a drink this week. Instead, I preface it with a beta text about how I had a good time, which she never responds to. Several days later I send another feeler text with no response.

I get upset with myself for sending the first text in the first place, second for caring (a lack of outcome independence), and third for me being so oblivious to how poorly the date went.

The date went well in the moment, from my point of view, because we had rapport and I was never able to simply get comfortable in my own skin before. I had an irrational fear for years that I would have nothing to say. Instead, I overcompensated and turned the rapport we built into me basically entertaining myself with my new-found chattiness during the second half of the date.

From this, I learned that I have to be more laconic. I have to ask deeper challenging questions, not jump from topic to topic, and learn when to shut the fuck up and let her speak. If possible, I need to go in having specific topics in my head that will build a connection. I need to learn how to adjudicate between when to build value and when to build comfort.

Most importantly, I took Roosh's recommendation to be chatty too strongly to heart. He mentions this in Daybang, but there is only a need to be chatty to fill the gaps with which a woman is too shy to reciprocate. Once she began reciprocating, then I should have just listened, explored, and let her get emotionally invested. I will re-read this before my next date.
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#2

First Okay Date in a Long Time

Dude, if you're in a cool relaxed mood, coffee will snap you out of it real quick, that's the reason why people drink it. Caffeine adds to any kind of jittery, nervous and talkative qualities. So if you're going to get a coffee, do something with no sugar, and less caffeine, like a single shot or decaf or some shit.
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#3

First Okay Date in a Long Time

Thanks for sharing. I've had no success with online dating, I have no idea how you stuck with it for 6 months because it's so depressing.
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#4

First Okay Date in a Long Time

Start approaching if online doesn't work for you- day game! And as for the receding hairline, shave it off!

And don't tell "racist" jokes to someone you barely know, regardless of the situation.

Oh and "being chatty" means both of you, try and get the girl to talk, eg music don't just talk a lot yourself. Sorry but you made just too many mistakes here and killed any attraction the girl had for you.
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#5

First Okay Date in a Long Time

1. Why are you trying to apply Day Bang principles online and even when on a date?

2. Have you read Bang?

3. Why did you get Day Bang if you aren't going to approach?

3. Are you working on a plan to move to NYC? No reason to live 15 miles away from MILLIONS of women.

To put it blunt you have a lot of work to do if you are so happy about a mediocre coffee date.
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#6

First Okay Date in a Long Time

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We chat about it for half a minute, she gives me a hug and says we'll talk again.

Women are EXTREMELY non-confrontational. They will say this 100 times out of 100 just to avoid the awkwardness of, and potentially angry reaction to admitting they're not interested. It means nothing. From my experience, if she actually intends on talking again, she'll make it obvious.

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The next day I want to send her a text about how we'll grab a drink this week. Instead, I preface it with a beta text about how I had a good time, which she never responds to. Several days later I send another feeler text with no response.

I get upset with myself for sending the first text in the first place,

The "beta text" didn't do any damage. If she was attracted to you in person, she'd respond positively to it. And if she didn't like you in person, the most textbook alpha text in the world wouldn't help at all.

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and third for me being so oblivious to how poorly the date went.

Just because she's not interested in you doesn't necessarily mean the date went horribly. I've had plenty of dates where we chatted for around 3 hours until I was the one to finally suggest ending it, that resulted in an ignored text the following day. Clearly those girls at least found me interesting to talk to, but you've gotta understand how in demand young, non-fat girls are these days. Having your shit together and being a good date aren't enough. You have to make her FEEL strong physical and romantic passion for you by the end of date 1, or she'll next you and find some other guy who will. The game has changed since your parents were dating.
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