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MGTOW dustup: clash of personalities and definitions

MGTOW dustup: clash of personalities and definitions

I hate it when people call MGTOW a "movement." It's not a movement, it's an idea. It's going Galt. It's refusing to play a rigged game.

On the other hand, it's not being a celibate or a weak man. I consider an outlaw more of a MGTOW than some basement dweller playing games all day.

Regardless, when you understand MGTOW as an idea and not a movement, then it makes sense. Some of the men who use this idea will be great, and others will be losers. Just like anything else in life.

Contributor at Return of Kings.  I got banned from twatter, which is run by little bitches and weaklings. You can follow me on Gab.

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MGTOW dustup: clash of personalities and definitions

I'll probably expand this idea into something larger later, but the truth is "Passion is the goal; Identity is the obstacle".

MGTOWs, Roosh, MikeCF, Victor Pride and every red pill guy accept that the system is corrupt, that women are biologically inferior, that the government lies to us in order to get us dependent upon it, that the court system is anti-male, that social media artificially boosts women's egos, and on, and on, and on.

MGTOWs try to turn this knowledge into their identities. As in, "Because I know this stuff, I'm MGTOW. And you all have to admire and respect me because I have this knowledge." But Roosh, MikeCF, Victor Pride, and every successful red pill guy says, "The stuff that I know isn't my Identity. I don't give a fuck about my Identity, because I'm too passionate about what I'm doing. And if you're sacrificing your time by NOT doing anything you're passionate about, then you're Identity is really, 'I'm a nobody.'"

So it's only half the battle to know the truth; the other half is to do something you're passionate about despite your knowledge of the truth.
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MGTOW dustup: clash of personalities and definitions

Quote: (01-25-2015 08:29 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

I hate it when people call MGTOW a "movement." It's not a movement, it's an idea. It's going Galt. It's refusing to play a rigged game.

On the other hand, it's not being a celibate or a weak man. I consider an outlaw more of a MGTOW than some basement dweller playing games all day.

Regardless, when you understand MGTOW as an idea and not a movement, then it makes sense. Some of the men who use this idea will be great, and others will be losers. Just like anything else in life.

EXACTLY! Great post!

I was there when the concept of MGTOW was created, at least I am very sure I was, and that was the purpose. Fellas, most of us here are MGTOW and the rest that are not are on their way to it.

And yes, it was based sort of an the Ayn Rand philosophy. As I said before in this thread, we will not beat women at this game. Women are the majority of voters, wealth owners, degree holders, and still are considered a protected minority class so they get free benefits. The only way to beat that is a huge revolution or men simply walking away from the system.

Sure the end game is that if enough men stop buying into this nonsense that things do change. And there is a chance for this, but IMO it is unlikely. But what we men can do is swallow the red pill and realize we don't need this nonsense in our lives. We go our own way and we live the red pill life in a blue pill society by doing what we want with our lives.

Get married, be a player, travel overseas, avoid women, whatever it is you choose to do, it matters not. What matters is you don't buy into blue pill nonsense thinking. And if you can spread this red pill knowledge to more men, like Sandman is doing or like Roosh and many of you do, then you are going above and beyond and I have tons of respect for you.
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MGTOW dustup: clash of personalities and definitions

Quote: (01-25-2015 12:45 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

Quote: (01-25-2015 08:29 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

I hate it when people call MGTOW a "movement." It's not a movement, it's an idea. It's going Galt. It's refusing to play a rigged game.

On the other hand, it's not being a celibate or a weak man. I consider an outlaw more of a MGTOW than some basement dweller playing games all day.

Regardless, when you understand MGTOW as an idea and not a movement, then it makes sense. Some of the men who use this idea will be great, and others will be losers. Just like anything else in life.

EXACTLY! Great post!

I was there when the concept of MGTOW was created, at least I am very sure I was, and that was the purpose. Fellas, most of us here are MGTOW and the rest that are not are on their way to it.

And yes, it was based sort of an the Ayn Rand philosophy. As I said before in this thread, we will not beat women at this game. Women are the majority of voters, wealth owners, degree holders, and still are considered a protected minority class so they get free benefits. The only way to beat that is a huge revolution or men simply walking away from the system.

Sure the end game is that if enough men stop buying into this nonsense that things do change. And there is a chance for this, but IMO it is unlikely. But what we men can do is swallow the red pill and realize we don't need this nonsense in our lives. We go our own way and we live the red pill life in a blue pill society by doing what we want with our lives.

Get married, be a player, travel overseas, avoid women, whatever it is you choose to do, it matters not. What matters is you don't buy into blue pill nonsense thinking. And if you can spread this red pill knowledge to more men, like Sandman is doing or like Roosh and many of you do, then you are going above and beyond and I have tons of respect for you.

Political change will almost certainly come in our lifetimes, but real cultural change most certainly will not. You may live to see the beginnings of a new culture, but you will not be able to participate or benefit from it much.

Political change is fast, but cultural change is very slow. Takes generations. However, when guys like us collectively say "Fuck you," and act purely out of our own self-interest, then that's how cultural change starts. As millions of women go childless and men go overseas or childless themselves, the remaining members of western civilization will of course be completely different than from the ones today.

Contributor at Return of Kings.  I got banned from twatter, which is run by little bitches and weaklings. You can follow me on Gab.

Be sure to check out the easiest mining program around, FreedomXMR.
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MGTOW dustup: clash of personalities and definitions

This shit is hilarious:

"Save a Male and Stop a Wedding™ is an unregistered trademark of MGTOW.com.

Yes, we have prevented 7 weddings in 4 years. Two of them right in the middle of the ceremony. The groom(s) were shown evidence that their fiancées had recently been at a bachelorette party just prior to the wedding and performed oral sex on a male stripper…. and then paid the stripper and their bar tab with their future husband’s credit card.

We charge a very small % of what the groom would lose in a divorce, which saves him a fortune. In the case of a high-profile example – like Tiger Woods – who’s wife was bad in bed and beat him with a golf club, she made off with 1/4 of a billion dollars. We would have only charged $2.5 million to stop that wedding. That represents a savings for Mr. Woods of $247,500,000. Not too shabby.

Pity we couldn’t get to Kayne West in time"

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Game is the difference between a broke average looking dude in a 2nd tier city turning bad bitch feminists into maids and fucktoys and a well to do lawyer with 50x the dough taking 3 dates to bang broads in philly.
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MGTOW dustup: clash of personalities and definitions

The Sandman on RVF is not the same one making YouTube videos. I asked.

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MGTOW dustup: clash of personalities and definitions

Quote: (01-25-2015 11:48 PM)The Reactionary Tree Wrote:  

The Sandman on RVF is not the same one making YouTube videos. I asked.

There is the Sandman972, but that's not him. There was another Sandman a while ago and he sounded awfully like the one in the videos.

It's not impossible since he sometimes mentions reading Return of Kings, so RVF is not too far off.
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MGTOW dustup: clash of personalities and definitions

I really wonder how big this phenomenon in the West is of men avoiding marriage. It seems like a great portion of the men here are avoiding marriage (though we have some married men in our ranks). All of those MGTOW youtube channels are growing. It is becoming more of a thing. It is not mainstream yet though Milo's Sexodus articles over at Breitbart was the first real mainstream piece on the subject matter. Not only that, but those Sexodus articles were EXTREMELY POPULAR. They were posted all over Facebook and the articles had literally thousands of comments which indicates to me that there is an undercurrent in our society where this idea is being kicked around in the heads of millions of people.

Perhaps I was being too hard on the MGTOW movement (they call themselves a movement) but as someone pointed out earlier, when you have the likes of playboys like DiCaprio in the same company as basement dwelling omegas, then perhaps some redefinition is in order. Also, scanning through youtube videos you see MGTOW comments and some of them are legitimately misogynists in the true sense of the word. There are some over there who just truly hate & despise women. We are often called misogynists here at RVF but no one here really hates women. We often laugh at feminists and poke fun at the irrationality of female nature & psychology, but there is no true hatred here. There is some hatred in MGTOW ranks.

Swearing off relationships forever doesnt seem to be healthy to me and thats what the MGTOWs are doing. However, if someone said you had to marry one of the women in your life at this moment within the next year, the thought of it literally makes me wince or cringe. Even the women I have fun with and enjoy their company, I do not think I could marry them. Does this make me a MGTOW? Am I a hypocrite? I'm not sure.

These hoes aint loyal. The problem is that most women in today's society are not prepared for marriage and they are unwilling to assume the role of wife. However, they want the wedding, maybe they want kids, and they want the security of marriage (and the system is designed to ensure their financial security regardless if you remain married or not- both will be at your personal expense). Women are getting theirs. What are men getting out of the whole ordeal?

Even the so-called "traditional" women here in the USA will gladly pick up the flag of feminism and start waving it around if it is to their advantage (see Jenny Erikson). You are really taking a chance no matter who you marry.

The quality of a lot of women is just not as good as it could be. The entitlement mentality has gotten out of control. It seems little effort is put into anything women do nowadays, yet there will be a brigade of white knights and manginas clapping like seals for them (the thirst is strong). We see it daily with the fat acceptance, short hair, facial piercings, tattoos, frumpy style of dress, lack of personal development (improving your worldly knowledge). I was on Interpals and was talking to this Ukrainian chick, she said she likes to read Tolstoy. Most of the American girls I work with, the last book they read was: 50 Shades of Grey, Harry Potter, or some teen vampire romance novel... also the sarcasm and snark just screams tryhard. These women behave in some obnoxious manners all in an attempt to get attention. It is literally like a child. It's mind-numbing dealing with such low quality life forms.

I often look around and examine the culture & society of the West and ask myself, "what is the point of all this?"

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MGTOW dustup: clash of personalities and definitions

Quote: (01-31-2015 08:23 AM)The Reactionary Tree Wrote:  

Perhaps I was being too hard on the MGTOW movement (they call themselves a movement) but as someone pointed out earlier, when you have the likes of playboys like DiCaprio in the same company as basement dwelling omegas, then perhaps some redefinition is in order. Also, scanning through youtube videos you see MGTOW comments and some of them are legitimately misogynists in the true sense of the word. There are some over there who just truly hate & despise women. We are often called misogynists here at RVF but no one here really hates women. We often laugh at feminists and poke fun at the irrationality of female nature & psychology, but there is no true hatred here. There is some hatred in MGTOW ranks.

Like I said earlier in this thread, I am very sure I was on the forum when the MGTOW was created. It was a forum, that was much a precursor to what we have here. It was a site dedicated to how terrible American women are and why men should travel overseas to find one. The forum creator was a former American citizen who relocated to Japan. This was nearly 15 years ago.

MGTOW was created on the forum because you had all these guys who realized the same conclusion... American women are not worth a shit. But at the same time each guy was in his own unique situation with his own unique parameters. Some guys were going through a tough divorce with 2 kids and had no way or means to travel overseas. Other guys were going overseas every few months to get laid. Other guys had no desire to ever leave the safety of the USA but had fun riding their Harley on the open road and answering to no one.

MGTOW was not created to be a movement, nor was it created to have a similar answer to all of this. It was created as an answer to this shitty feminist system we have in the USA. And the answer is simply swallow the red pill and live how YOU want to live.

If Leo has hundreds of millions of dollars and millions of adoring 22 year old hotties and he wants to have flings with them all the while knowing marriage is a disaster, more power to him. If some dorky guy wants to eat doritos and drink mountain dew all day long and play W.O.W. because he knows that marriage offers him nothing, then more power to him. Both guys are doing what they want, with what they have to work with. And in the end they are not only doing what they want, they are not selling the blue pill beta bullshit and trying to spread it.

Quote: (01-31-2015 08:23 AM)The Reactionary Tree Wrote:  

I often look around and examine the culture & society of the West and ask myself, "what is the point of all this?"

To answer this question, the point of all this is for the wealthy elite to accumulate more wealth (look at who was behind women's suffrage at the turn of the 20th century), and at the same time curb population growth. And it is working perfectly.
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MGTOW dustup: clash of personalities and definitions

^ Are you talking about The NiceGuy's American Women Suck forums when you are talking about where the idea of MGTOW originated from?
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MGTOW dustup: clash of personalities and definitions

After just listening to another great Sandman vid I would rather say that it really does not matter how a Red Pill man calls himself.







We have way more in common with MGTOWs like Aaron Clarey or Sandman than with most Blue Pill guys.

If someone wants to call himself that - so be it. Chances are we will enjoy each other's company in real life anyway.
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MGTOW dustup: clash of personalities and definitions

Quote: (02-02-2015 10:49 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

After just listening to another great Sandman vid I would rather say that it really does not matter how a Red Pill man calls himself.







We have way more in common with MGTOWs like Aaron Clarey or Sandman than with most Blue Pill guys.

If someone wants to call himself that - so be it. Chances are we will enjoy each other's company in real life anyway.

It's crazy that you posted this video since I just watched it myself. After the discussion we had on this thread, my position on Sandman changed. I still respect him very much, but I'm still gonna date around and plan on settling down when the time comes, contrary to Sandman who reached the full MGTOW level of no women at all.

At least we on this forum and the voluntary MGTOW will be mostly happy, along with the little curveball that life throws to all of us. Blue pill delusions won't affect us and we'll always have the ability to bounce back
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